Re: The Music Thread

Quite a range of genres appeal to me.

My first love is still metal, under that category I'd offer up:
Therion- fav album is Deggial, 2nd fav
Secret of the Runes.
Therion has their roots in death/ doom metal, however they've evolved nicely and I would not put their more recent work in that category at all.
They have some extremely provocative lyrics, from roots in Norse mythology, to Egyptian history.

Melodic metal would be the genre, and they employed upward of 160 musicians on their latest 2 disc release, Sirius B/ Lemuria.

Also under melodic metal, just about anything by In Flames.

The names/ genres sometimes belie the true talents, and are cast over with generalizations, i.e. "hair metal".
It ain't all about bangin' your head.

I also have many favs under  Industrial/ grindcore
#1 there would be Fear Factory, not to mention Pitchshifter, Earth Crisis, and Byzantine.

Also a huge lover of electronica...
The old stuff- Prodigy, Orbital,
   
Also Drum&Bass, Trance, Lounge, and Chillout, and some that defy categorization.

And Jazz, Diana Krall, Pete Escovedo....
about any guitar or piano jazz, and Fusion, not so much into brass jazz.

Just about anything that isn't "mainstream" ;-)

Gotta love music!   J

"I hate dreaming. because when you want to sleep, you want to sleep. Dreaming is work. Next thing you know I have to build a go-kart with my ex landlord"
-The late Mitch Hedberg

Re: The Music Thread

CV - we have similar tastes in metal. These are my favorite albums:

* Therion - Secret of the Runes
* Isole - Forevermore
* While Heaven Wept - Of Empires Forlorn
* Orphaned Land - Mabool
* Quo Vadis - Day Into Night
* Amorphis - Elegy
* Fear Factory - Demanufacture
* Metal Church - self titled
* Whispering Gallery - Lost as One
* Novembers Doom - Pale Haunt Departure
* Dark Tranquillity - Damage Done
* Edenbridge - Shine
* Darkwell - Suspiria
* The Gathering - Nighttime Birds
* Sonata Arctica - Silence

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: The Music Thread

montalk wrote:

CV - we have similar tastes in metal. These are my favorite albums:

* Therion - Secret of the Runes
* Isole - Forevermore
* While Heaven Wept - Of Empires Forlorn
* Orphaned Land - Mabool
* Quo Vadis - Day Into Night
* Amorphis - Elegy
* Fear Factory - Demanufacture
* Metal Church - self titled
* Whispering Gallery - Lost as One
* Novembers Doom - Pale Haunt Departure
* Dark Tranquillity - Damage Done
* Edenbridge - Shine
* Darkwell - Suspiria
* The Gathering - Nighttime Birds
* Sonata Arctica - Silence

Wow, Demanufacture goes in that list!? I used to have that album. Weird one. It made nodding your head to the rythm an actual chore.  big_smile  And Metal Church? Uh-oh. That one sounds like some blackness! XO

czyx wrote:

Here's some more

That wisp is pretty nice.

I am as is Void.

Re: The Music Thread

Montalk, thanks for the leads! I am somewhat surprised to see just how parallel our tastes run there!

And how could I leave out the godesses! (sound of hand smacking forehead).

I actually own Nighttime Birds!
Anneke has an amazing voice, don't she? Far and away my fav track on that one is "The May Song"
Sends chills is an understatement.

But, the one I can't believe I left out:
Lacuna Coil. Cristina Scabbia has IMO
THE best voice in MUSIC. Of all styles
Of all time.

I got the chance to see them live in Sept. '03 at a (small) local venue.

Cristina is a diminutive (and positively gorgeous) woman, but her voice could overwhelm an ampitheater. I think it is beyond compare. Very spiritual lyrics as well.
Fav album; "Unleashed Memories"

Anyone who likes Evanescence, please give Lacuna Coil a listen. Evanescence is only the closest comparison I can give, I think Coil blows them away.

And the now defunct Theatre of Tragedy. Liv Kristne Espenaes' voice is what I think of when I hear the word 'siren'- Fav album "Aegis"

And some more obscure bands, such as Drain STH, four women from Stockholm, also now disbanded- fav album "Freaks of Nature".

Hehe I am also a Metal Church fan- fav album: "Blessing in disguise"

I'll briefly (or not?) explain why I have personally been a fan of this genre.

One recurring theme for me- I like to see things used to their full potential.
Be that a machine, an instrument, a body, or a voice.

Maxed out.   Metal has never, for me, been about the scene. I don't look the part, never have.
My face does not look like I fell at high speed into a pile of scrap metal.
No long hair, no tats.

I love the power. The energy, and the endurance of some of these musicians.
Also some of the most powerful words in all of music, no I am not referring to Poison, or Motley Crue, or some of the many other bands that have given the genre a "bad name".

Montalk, I say I am surprised you like some of the same bands, and styles
because this is not the type of music usually associated with raising one's vibration. I had to really ponder this over the years.

Here is my conclusion.
(sorry I did not mean for this to be an indepth analysis)

Some would scold "You're gonna lower your vibe!" I am sure.

Not so.

If it strikes a chord within you, it is part of your essence.

Barring the overtly "satanic" bands, I have no qualms with that reasoning.

For me, Pop-corn music is just dead.
Forcing myself to listen to such bubblegum commercial garbage will, in fact, lower my vibration.

Because it does not resonate with me at all. Never has! 

(They just don't get it montalk) JK!

I will be checking out the bands you listed that I am not familiar with, and thanks again!

"I hate dreaming. because when you want to sleep, you want to sleep. Dreaming is work. Next thing you know I have to build a go-kart with my ex landlord"
-The late Mitch Hedberg

Re: The Music Thread

Xeno, that's what I find great about Fear Factory, that they purposely use unusual rhythms and speeds to sound more than human, then break it up with epic melodic choruses. One memorable head-nodding album I used to have is Warpath by Six Feet Under, slow and easy listening death metal. Now I prefer The Gathering, same slow rhythm but more pleasant vocals.

CV, thanks for the feedback, our thoughts on metal do run parallel. I would have listed Lacuna Coil, but only own their early short album. Will check out the others, thanks for the recommendation.

I like metal precisely for the same reason, that it maxes out nearly every musical potential humans possess. Not only melody and beauty in the best cases, but also complexity, speed, and power. Although I enjoy other types of music, none push boundaries as full spectrum as metal does.

I've pondered the metaphysics of this genre, what it does to your vibes. What ties all metal together is power. Power by itself is neither positive nor negative, but adds to the amplitude of vibration and gives it more physical impact. Depending on the band, power is expressed in metal along different lines, like demonic power, occult power, doom power, dramatic power, party power, love power, divine power, epic power, etc... Basically, power allows metal to express the extremes of sub-human, human, and trans-human archetypes of experience.

So overall, I would guess that metal resonates certain parts of your vibrational spectrum and amplifies their manifestation and expression in the physical. For instance, a band like Edenbridge has really positive angelic vibes, but unlike dinky New Age songs trying to be angelic, their vibe has physical substance. I mean, for me it's not about cherubs with harps, but archangels with swords.

But what I really like is when power of both vibrational extremes, light and dark, are found in the same song. Then it touches upon a forgotten memory of why some of us are here, upon knightly themes that transcend third density trivialities. As the Orphaned Land website says, "A tango between God and Satan."

I agree it's about resonance. Doom metal paradoxically makes me happier than party metal because I resonate with it more. The energy, enthusiasm, and satisfaction you get depends on how well something matches your essence. What makes others happy may not affect me much and vice versa.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: The Music Thread

(speechless)

"I hate dreaming. because when you want to sleep, you want to sleep. Dreaming is work. Next thing you know I have to build a go-kart with my ex landlord"
-The late Mitch Hedberg

Re: The Music Thread

montalk wrote:

I like metal precisely for the same reason, that it maxes out nearly every musical potential humans possess. Not only melody and beauty in the best cases, but also complexity, speed, and power. Although I enjoy other types of music, none push boundaries as full spectrum as metal does.

Wow  !

I must be missing something.




Please give me an example of a more beautiful 'metal' melody than the second movement of Beethoven's 5th symphony.

I hardly consider metal to max out the timber potential of the vast array of musical instruments designed by humans. It's mainly distorted guitars, standard  drum kits and bass. Do these instruments compare to the use of timber by Stravinski.

Is metal music more complex than Baroque music ?

Show me anyone in metal that can improvise anywhere near as well as Charlie Parker. (Nobody ever has.)

Give me an example of a metal tune pushing the spontaneity boundary like Keith Jarrett does on piano. Composing complete, logical and beautiful compositions, live and without forethought.

Actually, show me any metal musician who claims to do any of these things as well as the people I have just listed.





It doesn't mean don't get something out of it.
It doesn't invalidate the style.
But objectifying it brings on criticism much the same if someone compared the writing of Danielle Steele to Earnest Hemmingway or roadside velvet Elvis to Vermeer.

To each his own.

smile

68 (edited by montalk 2005-12-26 21:51:52)

Re: The Music Thread

To each his own smile

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: The Music Thread

montalk wrote:

To each his own smile

Absolutely.

No offence intended.

Have a great New Years.






(Bird lives !)

70 (edited by Sowelu 2005-12-26 21:14:19)

Re: The Music Thread

CortexVortex wrote:

If it strikes a chord within you, it is part of your essence.

Though I don't listen to metal, I completely agree with this statement and feel it applies to just about any/everything. Thanks for the succinct expression, CortexVortex!

montalk wrote:

Power by itself is neither positive nor negative, but adds to the amplitude of vibration and gives it more physical impact.
[...]
So overall, I would guess that metal resonates certain parts of your vibrational spectrum and amplifies their manifestation and expression in the physical.

Thanks for these, montalk. A little click occurred when I read these lines. I think I understand a bit more now, about why I might have shied away from metal (and other strong musical expressions). I don't know if others have gone through this in their own growth, but I realized a while back that for most of my life I feared my impact on others and on the world around me. Anything that would naturally enhance, amplify or even reflect a more powerful impact... would be anathema in the past. It's only in the last few years that I crave evidence of a much greater level of power in any form, coming through others (and self) in creative ways.

Thanks for the trigger to the insight! I can extrapolate it out to a zillion little "preferences", actually, and it's cool to see.

smile

"The most important decision you have to make is whether you live in a hostile or friendly universe."
~ Albert Einstein

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. ~Marcel Proust

The evolution of humanity is an evolution of the heart. The path is through the heart.

71 (edited by montalk 2005-12-26 22:16:50)

Re: The Music Thread

Sowelu, power is definitely an interesting subject to ponder. When used in balance, with responsibility, power is expressed positively. But when we think of "power" we usually think of corrupt men in suits running the world, and that makes it a dirty word. Power is the ability to influence or resist influence. Towards what purpose, that is what makes so many different types of power.

--

Google, forgot to add that my emphasis was more on "full spectrum." As you demonstrated, take any one element found in metal, and perhaps you can find an artist outside metal who excels at it more. But because metal is more flexible and inclusive, it can incorporate all the elements of another genre but not vice versa.

For instance, the music of Therion includes everything you would expect in a classical composition - choirs, strings, brass, beauty, melody, complexity - but then adds elements only metal offers. Combined, it is more full spectrum than classical alone. Better than Beethoven in the element of beauty? No, but it tries. Better than Bach fugues in the element of complexity? No, but it tries. Does classical have the power and speed of metal? No, because it is not supposed to.

All I'm saying is that metal can strive for excellence in more elements than other genres. This is good or bad depending on what elements you enjoy. That's where the relativity comes in. It might be so inclusive that it incorporates elements you find irritating.

Some people prefer strictly the elements of fun, groove, improvisation, and soul. So they gravitate primarily towards jazz or something. Others prefer mostly rhythm, serenity, culture, and atmosphere, so they listen to world music. Myself, I am not a fan of improvisation, pentatonic or mixolydian scales, or repetition, therefore I have no jazz or blues in my collection. And you might not be a fan of distortion or speedy drumming, therefore metal would not be in your collection. Or you could like both. It really does depend on what resonates with you.

----

Also, I think the vibes of the musicians themselves is important. Two bands might sound similar, but one just has an icky vibe and messes me up so I don't listen to it. Or a band might have positive vibes, and even if the music is sorrowful or aggressive it puts me in a better mood. Or maybe I resonate with the musicians somehow and enjoy having their music playing even if it isn't my type.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: The Music Thread

montalk wrote:

Google, forgot should add that my emphasis was more on "full spectrum." As you demonstrated, take any one element found in metal, and perhaps you can find an artist outside metal who excels at it more. But because metal is more flexible and inclusive, it can incorporate all the elements of another genre but not vice versa.

For instance, the music of Therion includes everything you would expect in a classical composition - choirs, strings, brass, beauty, melody, complexity - but then adds elements only metal offers. Combined, it is more full spectrum than classical alone. Better than Beethoven in the element of beauty? No, but it tries. Better than Bach fugues in the element of complexity? No, but it tries. Does Beethoven have the power and speed of metal? No, but that's because classical is not supposed to. Whether Therion is tainting classical or transcending it by doing so, is debatable. I vote for transcending, but that's because I value both classical and metal.

All I'm saying is that metal can strive for excellence in more elements than other genres. This is good or bad depending on what elements you enjoy. That's where the relativity comes in. It might be so inclusive that it incorporates elements you find irritating.

I'm quite sincere when I say "I must be missing something." because no metal that I've heard has that kind of quality.

Don't you find metal to be "pushy" and "in your face" ? 

I find it clumsy to talk about music.
If we could effectively , then we wouldn't need music.
I'll see if I can get my hands on the example you listed because I guess I don't know what it's about.

All I can say is, except for Zeppelin, Rush or Deep Purple (very blues based heavy music) I've never heard any metal that I like.
I've always considered Metal music to be anti-music in that it attempts to remove sophistication in the 4 elements.

73 (edited by montalk 2005-12-26 23:55:27)

Re: The Music Thread

Good points... it's becoming clear that taste in music really comes down to the musical elements you value. We may agree upon what elements a particular song has, but will differ on which ones we enjoy.

What is anti-music depends on what you consider to be music. For me, music ideally requires rhythm, harmony, and melody. The various genres add upon these basic elements of music, or substitute them with, the elements of novelty, wildness, fun, subtlety, sophistication, ambiance, beauty, heaviness, talent, complexity, simplicity, repetition, occultness, variety, catchiness, lyrical wit, improvisation, aggression, culture, serenity, quirkiness, levity, etc... different people will find different elements appealing.

Some forms of metal strive to incorporate all those, some strive to desecrate them, and some don't bother with anything but what sells. In my view, metal has such variety that there are corners of sophistication unknown to the casual listener.

The way I see them, Therion and Orphaned Land start with a foundation of harmony, melody, and rhythm then add numerous other elements including novelty, beauty, sophistication, aggression, and variety. Whether the extras add or subtract from it being "music" is a matter of opinion. My mom likes Therion, for what it's worth. I'll agree with CV that  their albums "Deggial" and "Secret of the Runes" are worth checking out, even if only to hear something "different."

By the way, I also like Bach, Monteverdi, Palestrina, Vivaldi, Albinoni, Scarlatti, and Buxtehude. I'm currently listening to Monteverdi's "Duo Seraphim" from the Vespers of 1610... one of my favs.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: The Music Thread

It's clear that I don't know much about Metal music so I don't have much more coment.  I'd be amazed if I found it as varied as you do but sometimes it depends on where people are coming from and even their age.  People's emotions are most alive during their teens and I am well past that. Music is so powerful that it can transend genre restrictions and deliver emotion to the listener.  I guess we are discussing what renders those emotions best. Most music has genre restrictions.

The best I could do is probably hear some Metal music, that has merit, and admit it.

I understand what you mean by power.
When I need a no-nonsense-pick-me-up, musically, I put on Stevie Ray Vaughan or Peter Gabriel etc. but I couldn't have a steady diet of power bands.

75 (edited by montalk 2005-12-27 00:37:09)

Re: The Music Thread

google wrote:

but I couldn't have a steady diet of power bands.

Same here...  Silence, ambient, or classical helps me avoid burnout.

One bad thing I can say about metal is that prolonged exposure to the square wave harshness of distorted guitars, the white noise of cymbals crashing, and the modulated noise of death metal vocals probably does damage to neural and etheric pathways. So I am cautious to moderate my listening, and make sure it's something melodic.

If music is a drug, then metal is like caffeine. Caffeine comes in all forms...from straight out No-Doz pills to coffee to tea to chocolate. Some metal music is smoother and more melodic than others. But man, I have heard some bad forms of death metal and noisecore that are equivalent to crystal meth. I wouldn't force anyone into picking up the metal habit.

Honestly, if I could reprogram myself to dislike metal and get my kicks solely from gentler forms of music, then I would. But that would also require a corresponding change in resonance, which would change the flavor of my life activities and experiences.

That's something to think about -- could the music you like actually be reflecting the "soundtrack of your life"?

Hah, so once more - to each his own! smile

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.