Gossip (Page 2 of 3)

Gossip was a way of life for me from an early age:  my mother made me her confidant about her difficult relationship with my father.  One time when I was about eight,  she was really mad at him, and fuming to me. I was very upset and said to her, "Mom, he's human." What I was trying to say, I think, was:  "He's a real person, not a monster."  She just snapped sarcastically: "Oh yes, he's human.  I'll grant you that."  Which only made me feel worse.

But I soon learned that just listening and agreeing was the way to
bond with her. And of course, I had my own problems with my dad, and so the habit was established.

I think we all do need to keep that wisdom in mind, when we feel tempted to gossip about people.  They are real people, not monsters.
The truth is never so black and white no matter now we may be feeing about them at the moment.

Still working on this one, for sure...

Of course, it's easy to be nice to people who are nice to us, the challenge comes when we perceive (rightly or wrongly) that someone
doesn't like us.

Here's something that I just recalled that made a big impression on me. In the Bartholomew book, I Come As A Brother, he suggests that we not try to love someone who our feelings tell us doesn't love us. It doesn't work, he says, because we're trying to give something to someone that we want for ourselves. He suggests: 

It's all about self-mastery, ultimately--becoming the source of love rather than looking for it from the outside.  In this sense, those "hard-to-love" people could even be performing a valuable funciton
in our lives.

True.  I was going off on a tangent, as so often happens in these threads.  I guess it could relate to the subject of gossip, in that, if we are able to resolve our negative feelings about someone within ourselves, we will feel less need to broadcast it to others and get them to agree in order to reinforce those feelings (a vicious circle).  Anyway, thanks for sharing that story.

Very true.   The temp job that I'm at now which I hate so much is a small office with 3 women and one receptionist as the primary workers in the office.   To say they are less likely to help is putting it lightly.   It's almost as if many women purposely try to set the new girl up to fall on her face, providing next to no training, being cold and unhelpful, detached and distant.   There's the alpha female too.  It's all so primitive.

Feeding chickens to the reptiles, like Stuart Wilde says.  That's what it's all about.  Just toss em a f*cking chicken and run.   If EVER there was a test for my own ego, this place would be it.   !  Soon I will be gone and it won't matter.  It already doesn't matter, and that's been the ultimate test to pass.  Can I realize that ultimately, it doesn't matter?   I think so. 

Indeed.   What needs to be established is, how do we define "gossip" ?   What exactly IS gossip?  What is it not?

I think many would agree that gossip encompasses "smack talking" about people behind their backs,  and the more serious hate campaigning, as discussed.  Putting somebody down, making fun of them, any sentence that starts with "can you believe that he/she did / said ???"  etc.   If what we're saying leaves the other person in an unfair position -- because they are unable to defend themselves or speak up on their behalf -- then it can be classified as gossip.  If we're putting them down and negatively commenting on them for the sake of trashing them, then it's gossip.  If it's a negative, "dead end statment", meaning, it serves no constructive purpose other than to tear down and bitch and complain, then it's gossip.  Dead end statements go nowhere, and end on a flat note, like running into wall.  "She's such a bitch."   Okay.  And?   Oh, and nothing.  That's it.   SMACK, right into the wall.   Dead end.   "You know, she and I keep butting heads...we just can't get along, AT all, I don't know why this is, why is there so much friction??  She's making it difficult for me to work here!!"    AH!  Well, there you go, that's open ended, that's looking for a resolution of some sort.  Now we can begin to analyze the situation and get to the bottom of the problem, so the situation can fix itself, and everybody can move on.  Additionally, the statement doesn't put anybody down behind their back, where they aren't in a position to defend themselves.  It just states facts.  Nothing wrong with that.

So with that in mind, *getting feedback* about a problem with somebody by talking to a friend or family member isn't necessarily gossip I don't think.  If your intent is to just bitch about them and trash them, then sure, that would be gossip;  but if you're truly seeking some perspective on the matter and advise, so that you can resolve the issue and move on, then that's different.   It can be a fine line though between getting advise and perspective, and slipping into the realm of smack talking.    So tread cautiously.  And I think that the whole "letting off steam" thing is another issue in itself.  It's such a gray area.  Because it's not petty and catty for the sake of being gossipy and vindictive ....it's a situation where somebody is truly upset, frustrated, angry, etc. and basically needs to rage for a few minutes and let it all out.  "ROOOOWWWWRR!"  hiss!   I don't know, I don't think that's necessarily gossip either, if you can wind up going somewhere with it all in the end, and come away from it with a new perspective on things, making some progress, moving forward, and so on.

(On a sidenote, the trick is to not have to try to suppress the need to vent our pent up anger, but rather, to learn how to not get angry and frustrated in the first place.    If we can learn how to not be bothered by things that don't matter, then the rest takes care of itself.)

It's funny but when I used to live with all my guy roommates, inevitably, somebody would end up getting talked about when they weren't around.  Not in a malicious way, just general talk about minor pet peeves, or "stuff".  But the next time I'd see them the first thing that would be out of my mouth would be "We were talking about you...."  And I'd tell them exactly what was said.  So they would know, and it wouldn't be unfair smack talkin' behind their back, and if they had anything to say in their own defense they could, and it would be fair.   I was ADAMENT about doing that too, like in an obsessive way.  Everything that was said about anybody when they weren't around MUST be mentioned to them.   Kind of weird I guess in retrospect.   My roommates thought it a little strange too, but definitely cool, and one of them did compliment the fact that they knew they could trust me in that regard, that I wouldn't talk crap about them when they weren't around, and would play fair.   

Anyway, just my 2 cents.  Although it's a longer post, so, maybe it's worth 3 cents, I don't know. 

Yes, it is a fine line to walk, and it's super easy to veer from steam to smack. I try to remember that whoever upset me likely had a good reason for their poor behavior.... and I try to have compassion for their situation while simultaneously venting frustration. That's a neat trick.

That's the goal. My personal peace has become a precious commodity and I'm careful not to spend it frivolously!

Who would you say talked more about the other parent, mom or dad? In my experience, it's usually the mother. Daughter as "confidant" reinforces what I was saying about gossip bonding between women. But yes, I'm sure plenty of men bond via gossip too. I just think they do it with a lot less vim and vigor than women! And, most men can't run the gossip marathon like a woman. They don't have the attention span.

I think you can see that adopting The Four Agreements makes gossip impossible.  Cool, huh.