• Registered: 2005-12-01

Topic: Opinions on 2012

Hi


   I've only been studying New Age ideas for about 3 years.




I would like to outline some of these ideas and pose a question that I have regarding them.



  1)  The Solar System is set to progress from the 3rd density into the 4th density.

       a)  Maybe around December 2012.
       
            (David Wilcock's presents a pretty good case for this on his website http://www.divinecosmos.com/cms/content/section/4/30/ )
     
       b)  The Earth can progress into the 4th density in one of 2 ways.

              If we can collectively raise our vibratory rate to be in harmony with the earth's vibratory rate the passage will be peaceful.

              If we don't do this, then there will be a pole shift causing mass destruction, after which the earth will be repopulated with higher density beings who are in harmony with the 'new earth' .




      2)  We have be manipulated by negative 4th density beings for a heck of a long time and their goal is to set up a One World Government. 

         a) This negative influence will be gone from the earth after we progress into 4th density.




Are these ideas in accordance with typical New Age thought ?

If this is true, don't we just have to stall the advance of the New World Order until December 2012 to be in the clear, so to speak ?






What are anybody's thoughts on this ?



Thanks

google's Website

  • From: istanbul
  • Registered: 2004-05-13

Re: Opinions on 2012

Hi google,

I've been thinking on newage thoughts/ideas for some time too. I'm especially stuck on "CIA or some other control mechanism" influences on this. There are some very good ideas on this below:
http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic. … 65&p=6

Now, if this movement is a CIA thing, then all the fuzz about 2012 is determined and strictly controlled. But still I feel we miss something. 2012 maybe or maynot be an important date. But even if something important will happen on 2012, we may be misdirected carefully on this. Because as visavis said on above link, %99 of us maybe wrong about new age concepts including 2012.

A minefield we have on our way.

Change we must, to live again
- Jon Anderson
  • Registered: 2005-12-01

Re: Opinions on 2012

I did read that thread and was interested in some of the opinions.


Perhaps my question was too broad.



Maybe I should first ask :


"Will the Earth pass from a 3rd density planet to a 4th density planet, ever  ?" .

google's Website

4 Reply by Jen

  • Jen
  • Guest

Re: Opinions on 2012

I'll post some excerpts from the Timewave Zero Yahoo group about 2012, here's the first:

There is a virtual mountain of
evidence out there - and I mean it's HUGE! - both physical
and metaphysical, some credible and some incredible,
that suggests we are approaching an unprecedented
breakthrough on a planetary scale. Some views are cataclysmic,
others are a bit more rosy. The truth may lie somewhere
in between...First, the metaphysical
evidence. As part of his Novelty Theory, the late Terence
McKenna devised a graph which attempted to quantify
history by plotting 'novelty' and 'habit' against time -
as far back as 7 billion years. This graph, which he
referred to as "the eschaton mathematically formalized,"
is generally known as Time Wave Zero or Fractal
Time. The graph shows history repeating itself in
ever-decreasing intervals until the last several billion years
are compressed into a mere fraction of a second as we
fall over the lip of the event horizon. I have
provided a link where you can download a free copy of the
program Although his criteria were rather subjective, the
graph nevertheless shows an interesting correlation
between sudden increases in novelty and mass extinctions.
The graph has been extensively analyzed, with mixed
reactions. He has his supporters and detractors, but
regardless of whether the Time Wave is empirically sound or
not, his Novelty Theory is both compelling and
elegant. The most interesting thing about the TWZ graph,
however, is that it predicts that novelty will become
immeasurably great on December 21, 2012. Apparently this
end-date was discovered before Terence became aware that
the Mayan Long Count of 5,125 years ended on the same
date - winter solstice of 2012.

More to come...

5 Reply by Jen

  • Jen
  • Guest

Re: Opinions on 2012

Part Two about 2012 from the Timewave Zero Yahoo group. Dunno if the links will work here...

Now, about Mayan Time. The best source for this
is John Major Jenkins, author of Mayan Cosmogenesis.
The Mayan method of reckoning time is amazingly
intricate and accurate, and even accounts for the
precession of the equinoxes. There are many highly educated
and scholarly people who study the Mayan calendar -
there is even an Institute of Maya Studies in Miami,
Florida. Those who dismiss scholars of the Maya calendar
as flakes are either grievously misinformed or
lacking in knowledge. Jenkins believes that human
civilization is passing through an era of great
transformation. "When the solstice meridian [aligns with] the
Galactic [Center - on December 21, 2012], a rare era in
the earth's journey is engaged. How does this affect
human society? Maybe it sets the stage for earthquakes
and volcanoes and pole shifts and so forth - the
recurring Atlantean cataclysm mythos may be based in this
26,000 cycle... My own ideal scenario is that we hear
the message that the alignment expresses... The
winter solstice meridian [on December 21, 2012] will
coincide with the Galactic [Center of] the Milky Way...
There are two more celestial features right near where
the sun will be on the end-date in 2012 A.D.: 1). The
'dark rift' which the Maya call 'the road to the
underworld.' This is a dark area running along part of the
Milky Way caused by interstellar dust clouds; and 2)
The Galactic Center. In many mythological contexts,
the 'dark-rift' is understood to be the birth canal
of the Great Mother, the Milky Way. It is the birth
place of the next World Age. The celestial cross
defined by the Milky Way crossing over the ecliptic is
also important, and this was recently identified by
Mayan scholar Linda Schele as the Mayan Sacred Tree.
The heart of the four-directional symbolism is the
fifth direction, the center. This is the navel and
source of creation. And again, the 'dark-rift' runs
through all these features." I disagree with Mr. Jenkins
on the alignment of the solstice meridian with the
galactic equator. I believe it is actually an alignment
with the galactic CENTER. For this reason I have
exercised some editorial license in the above quote (shown
in square brackets). For more on the Maya
Cosmogenesis, you can start with
<a href=http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html
target=new>http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html</a> or <a
href=http://edj.net/mc2012/robpaul.htm
target=new>http://edj.net/mc2012/robpaul.htm

6 Reply by Jen (edited by Jen 2005-12-09 12:27:40)

  • Jen
  • Guest

Re: Opinions on 2012

Part Three.

Scott Mandelker, Ph.D.: Dr. Mandelker discusses,
among other things, exponential changes taking place in
our solar system culminating in a "Global Shift" on
or before 2012. "As I see it, the end of this
century and the beginning of the next will treat us to
both: an unprecedented, rapid decay of current
civilization followed by an equally stupendous rebirth, with
long-term implications beyond our wildest dreams.
Ultimately, I also expect wondrous things for Earth and her
people, but before that happens, a profound Dark Night of
the Soul will shake humanity to its roots. In the
language of Wall Street, I think we can look forward to
some major 'corrections' on many levels: personal,
collective, and metaphysical." More at
<a href=http://www.universal-vision.com
target=new>http://www.universal-vision.com</a> <br>David Wilcock: "We strive to
completely
redefine human scientific understanding by proposing an
integrated zero-point energy or 'aether' cosmology, backed
with credible experimental research evidence. In this
model, anti-gravity and free energy technologies are
easily explainable. Furthermore, this new cosmology can
clearly and scientifically prove that a dimensional shift
will occur on Earth on or before 2012. This work is
not "channeled" material - it comes from years of our
director David Wilcock's rigorous scientific and
metaphysical research. This multi-disciplinary information,
featured in the Convergence series, is tantamount to the
"Holy Grail" of New Age teachings, and is of enormous
religious and scientific significance to humanity. More at
<a href=http://www.ascension2000.com target=new>http://www.ascension2000.com</a>
<br>Art Bell: The "Quickening" is more than an
Earth-Sun interaction; it is occurring throughout the Solar
System, as we move into a more energetic area of
intergalactic space. More at <a href=http://www.artbell.com
target=new>http://www.artbell.com</a>
<br>Lawrence C. Hagerty's on-line book, "The Spirit of the
Internet: Volume I: Speculations on the Evolution of Global
Consciousness." This is an amazing book!!!
<a href=http://www.matrixmasters.com/spirit/html/html.html
target=new>http://www.matrixmasters.com/spirit/html/html.html</a> <br>Raymond
Kurzweil: "The Singularity Is Near...
We will not experience 100 years of progress in the
21st century; rather we will witness on the order of
20,000 years of progress... Accelerating technology will
lead to superhuman machine intelligence that will soon
exceed human intelligence, probably by the year 2030.
The results on the other side of the 'event horizon'
are unpredictable." A very high-tech site, with lots
of graphs quantifying exponential changes in
technology and evolution
<a href=http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?m=1
target=new>http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?m=1</a> (click on "The
Singularity is Near.")

7 Reply by Jen

  • Jen
  • Guest

Re: Opinions on 2012

Part Four, and that's it from the Timewave Zero group.   Hope the links are not totally useless.

These were posted in the group back in 2001, but the information is
comprehensive enough, I think.  It's up to each of us to decide if this is for real.  I'm betting that it is.


Now for the Physical evidence:<br>The earth's
magnetic north pole has migrated 1,000 km north in the
past 100 years
<a href=http://www.geolab.nrcan.gc.ca/geomag/e_nmpole.html
target=new>http://www.geolab.nrcan.gc.ca/geomag/e_nmpole.html</a> <br>The
earth's magnetic field has been weakening
for the past 2,000 years
(<a href=http://earth.agu.org/sci_soc/hoffman.html
target=new>http://earth.agu.org/sci_soc/hoffman.html</a>), and has weakened by
8% in the past 150 years
(<a href=http://www.zetatalk.com/theword/tworx365.htm
target=new>http://www.zetatalk.com/theword/tworx365.htm</a> ). If we assume a
weakening of 1% every 19 years,
this means that it would now be less than zero - so it
must have been more rapid in the past 150 years. In
other words, things are accelerating! <br>The sun's
coronal magnetic flux has doubled in the past century
(<a href=http://www.wdc.rl.ac.uk/wdcc1/papers/nature.html
target=new>http://www.wdc.rl.ac.uk/wdcc1/papers/nature.html</a> )<br>The last
sunspot cycle ended with a bang,
with THE most powerful flare ever (an X-20 class CME
on April 15, 2001) and the second highest sunspot
number in the past 400 years
(<a href=http://www.spaceweather.com target=new>http://www.spaceweather.com</a>)
<br>Okay, there you go people - I've done my
homework! Now it's up to you to explore these sites and
decide for yourself - are we in for something BIG or
not??? My conclusion is that yes, I see time and change
accelerating immensely in the following decade. We all know we
are on the accretion disk, we just can't see beyond
the lip of the event horizon. But I think it will be
something that will utterly revolutionize science. The Age
of Science will come to an end - not to the end that
it is invalidated, but to the end that it becomes a
useful tool in a realm of consciousness where the soul
is openly acknowledged, and intelligence is much
more clearly experienced.

8 Reply by google (edited by google 2005-12-09 12:47:24)

  • Registered: 2005-12-01

Re: Opinions on 2012

Thank you  Jen.


   Wilcock presents a very good case for this event.





   Let's assume, for now, that it is true.

   
   Will the Illuminati and the New World Order, for lack of a better description, still be around to pester Earthlings ?


Or what, in general, in your opinion, is the relationship between 2012 and the negative forces that have plagued us ?

Will it be just 'business as usual'  in 2013 or will this influence be gone ?   



I know that I am naively simplifying but I'm curious as to the relationship between the race for the emergence of the New World Order and 2012.

google's Website

9 Reply by Jen (edited by Jen 2005-12-09 13:00:49)

  • Jen
  • Guest

Re: Opinions on 2012

google wrote:

Thank you  Jen.

Welcome, google.

Wilcock presents a very good case for this event.

Yes, he does an excellent job.

 

Let's assume, for now, that it is true.

   
   Will the Illuminati and the New World Order, for lack of a better description, still be around to pester Earthlings ?

Or what, in general, in your opinion, is the relationship between 2012 and the negative forces that have plagued us ?

Will it be just 'business as usual'  in 2013 or will this influence be gone ?

That's up to us.  It's time for us in our evolution, to take the reins and become the cause rather than the effect of circumstances in our lives. 

See my latest post in Neomatrix' Icke thread for more elaboration on this concept...

I know that I am naively simplifying but I'm curious as to the relationship between the race for the emergance of the New World Order and 2012.

I think the most constructive way to see the NWO agenda is as a challenge to our clarity and powers of intention to create what we truly want in our lives.  And then, stop focusing on it.  Put your focus on what you want, not on what you don't want, because you get what you focus on.

  • montalk
  • montalk
  • forum-keeper-upper
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2004-03-24

Re: Opinions on 2012

Some views concerning the "Shift" are empowering, others are disempowering. I think the most disempowering view of all is one that says there is a definite time, December 2012, during which mankind undergoes collective ascension to a new reality. If that were true, then no personal effort other than waiting would be required, and many people would be changed/shifted against their will.

I know from personal experience that fourth density exists and is populated by beings not limited by the constraints of linear time or three dimensional space. How did they get there? If they can do it, so can we.

From what I understand, reality accommodates the experiential needs of all. The timelime splits when the elected experiences of one sector of the population conflicts too much with that of another. Based on the polarization trend where people are rapidly becoming more of who they truly are, breaking away from those who are not compatible, and being attracted to others of similar resonance, then extrapolating this into the future tells me that some type of reality split is likely.

Today there appears to be a convergence of cycles, a simultaneous culmination of various plans at various levels...things seem to be building up towards some type of nexus. Putting everything together, I have reason to believe that the Shift is real, except it's not necessarily the way certain New Age sources make it out to be.

It could be nothing more than a gradual availability of fourth density reality to those here who need to experience it. Of course, that has huge consequences if you take into account the possibility of global totalitarianism, alien agenda, and earth changes. What if world events continue along their scripted paths towards increased control and manipulation, but those who work for truth and freedom learn to operate beyond the limits of third density? Then things get interesting.

I do not believe that if we can simply make it to 2012 we'll suddenly wake up in some utopian teletubbyland. Rather, I think the process will be somewhat gradual and place us into direct contact with fourth density forces of either polarity. There will be people who have finished their third density experiences but are entirely clueless to what this "new" reality is all about, and they will be most easily suckered by the STS controllers. Balance would demand others rise to the call and present an alternative, teachers and freedomfighters to continue in fourth what they started and prepared for in third. In other words, perhaps what we are doing now is preparation and training for the big show. The Shift is when the curtains rise, when the veil is pulled away and we are put to the test smile  -- I find that viewpoint to be anything but disempowering because it demands that we grow sharper, more skilled, more fearless and unlimited as time goes on.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website

  • Registered: 2005-12-01

Re: Opinions on 2012

Jen wrote:

Let's assume, for now, that it is true.

   
   Will the Illuminati and the New World Order, for lack of a better description, still be around to pester Earthlings ?

Or what, in general, in your opinion, is the relationship between 2012 and the negative forces that have plagued us ?

Will it be just 'business as usual'  in 2013 or will this influence be gone ?

That's up to us.  It's time for us in our evolution, to take the reins and become the cause rather than the effect of circumstances in our lives. 

See my latest post in Neomatrix' Icke thread for more elaboration on this concept...

The response seems to be discussing the individual as opposed to the collective.
Who will be able to inhabit the Earth, post-2012 ?
Will the negative forces that have been with us through this 3rd density, be able to withstand the more dense eather, post-2012 ? 


Perhaps I misunderstand the significance of 2012.

google's Website

  • From: The Singularity
  • Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: Opinions on 2012

2012 is the end of linear time.  Since linear time is an illusion, we all have the ability to move beyond it, right now.

To the casual 3D observer, you can move your consciousness into another dimension, hang out there for a while, and return, and the 3D observer wouldn't know the difference.

Imagine that you find yourself about to engage in an argument with a coworker.  Instead of jumping in, you move your consciousness into another dimension and realize how silly and inconsequential the argument really is.  So you return to the moment in 3D and diffuse the argument rather than engaging it.

What you have done is collapsed an entire 3D chain of events that may have gone on for days, or even years.  You have stepped outside of time and returned as a future version of yourself.  Pretty neat trick, eh?

It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.
  • Registered: 2005-12-01

Re: Opinions on 2012

montalk wrote:

Some views concerning the "Shift" are empowering, others are disempowering. I think the most disempowering view of all is one that says there is a definite time, December 2012, during which mankind undergoes collective ascension to a new reality. If that were true, then no personal effort other than waiting would be required, and many people would be changed/shifted against their will.

Wilcock's work seems to indicate that the mayan calendar and the 2012 shift is a seasonal thing.
The season, in this case, he speculates, is our orbit around the center of the Milky Way Galaxy and into a higher density of eather, which is the unifying energy that all Creation is formed from.

But really, the exact date is not the most important thing, but the concept.

I'm sure I am not paraphrasing correctly, or even grasping the profound concept completely (who could blame me ?) 


Are you implying that empowerment can change our entrance into more dense eather ?





montalk wrote:

From what I understand, reality accommodates the experiential needs of all. The timelime splits when the elected experiences of one sector of the population conflicts too much with that of another. Based on the polarization trend where people are rapidly becoming more of who they truly are, breaking away from those who are not compatible, and being attracted to others of similar resonance, then extrapolating this into the future tells me that some type of reality split is likely.

Does this imply that the time that Earth becomes a complete 4th density entity is conditional on us ?

Wilcock seems to indicate that our mode of entry into 4th density (violent or smooth) is dependent on the vibrational rate of the collective consciousness of Earthlings but the date of entry is not dependent. (Whatever that date may be.)

If I remember correctly, he interpreted this from the Ra material which I know you are familiar with since I saw your picture with  Carla Rueckert in the picture thread.  (Wish I could have been at that dinner party.)   

Please correct me if I am wrong.



montalk wrote:

Today there appears to be a convergence of cycles, a simultaneous culmination of various plans at various levels...things seem to be building up towards some type of nexus. Putting everything together, I have reason to believe that the Shift is real, except it's not necessarily the way certain New Age sources make it out to be.

It could be nothing more than a gradual availability of fourth density reality to those here who need to experience it. Of course, that has huge consequences if you take into account the possibility of global totalitarianism, alien agenda, and earth changes. What if world events continue along their scripted paths towards increased control and manipulation, but those who work for truth and freedom learn to operate beyond the limits of third density? Then things get interesting.

Today there appears to be a convergence of cycles, a simultaneous culmination of various plans at various levels...things seem to be building up towards some type of nexus. Putting everything together, I have reason to believe that the Shift is real, except it's not necessarily the way certain New Age sources make it out to be.

It could be nothing more than a gradual availability of fourth density reality to those here who need to experience it. Of course, that has huge consequences if you take into account the possibility of global totalitarianism, alien agenda, and earth changes. What if world events continue along their scripted paths towards increased control and manipulation, but those who work for truth and freedom learn to operate beyond the limits of third density? Then things get interesting.

I do not believe that if we can simply make it to 2012 we'll suddenly wake up in some utopian teletubbyland. Rather, I think the process will be somewhat gradual and place us into direct contact with fourth density forces of either polarity. There will be people who have finished their third density experiences but are entirely clueless to what this "new" reality is all about, and they will be most easily suckered by the STS controllers. Balance would demand others rise to the call and present an alternative, teachers and freedomfighters to continue in fourth what they started and prepared for in third. In other words, perhaps what we are doing now is preparation and training for the big show. The Shift is when the curtains rise, when the veil is pulled away and we are put to the test smile  -- I find that viewpoint to be anything but disempowering because it demands that we grow sharper, more skilled, more fearless and unlimited as time goes on.

Thanks.


This addresses my main question.

"Will the negative influences still be around ?"







I feel that the idea of 'slothfulness' has been projected into my orginal question :


"If this is true, don't we just have to stall the advance of the New World Order until December 2012 to be in the clear, so to speak ? "


I don't consider 'stalling' the New World Order to be passive.
Perhaps a great tool to fight is to intensify our individual Spiritual journeys.

google's Website

  • Registered: 2005-12-01

Re: Opinions on 2012

tenetnosce wrote:

2012 is the end of linear time.  Since linear time is an illusion, we all have the ability to move beyond it, right now.

To the casual 3D observer, you can move your consciousness into another dimension, hang out there for a while, and return, and the 3D observer wouldn't know the difference.

Imagine that you find yourself about to engage in an argument with a coworker.  Instead of jumping in, you move your consciousness into another dimension and realize how silly and inconsequential the argument really is.  So you return to the moment in 3D and diffuse the argument rather than engaging it.

What you have done is collapsed an entire 3D chain of events that may have gone on for days, or even years.  You have stepped outside of time and returned as a future version of yourself.  Pretty neat trick, eh?

Very interesting.


I'll think about this on the way home tonight on the bus.







This thread seems to have cleared something up for me.

If, as I had orginally thought, the 'bad guys' can have no effect on a 4th density earth, then why would they spend millenia trying to set up a totalitarian state that would last  only a couple of years. Kind of absurd but on the other hand the fact that we held them off could be seen as a victory of sorts for positively oriented beings.
Perhaps the idea is to drag down as many beings as possible in order to increase the size of the "bad guys'" kingdom.
Maybe I'm stuck on viewing Creation from 3D and am not thinking more from an eternal, infinite  perspective.

Even Ra said that the Harvest is rather insignificant.

Maybe the idea is, harvest, or no harvest, I should continue stiving to purifying my soul, in any density I happen to be visiting.

google's Website

15 Reply by Jen (edited by Jen 2005-12-09 14:46:02)

  • Jen
  • Guest

Re: Opinions on 2012

google wrote:

Will the Illuminati and the New World Order, for lack of a better description, still be around to pester Earthlings ?

Or what, in general, in your opinion, is the relationship between 2012 and the negative forces that have plagued us ?

Will it be just 'business as usual'  in 2013 or will this influence be gone ?

Jen wrote:

That's up to us.  It's time for us in our evolution, to take the reins and become the cause rather than the effect of circumstances in our lives. 

See my latest post in Neomatrix' Icke thread for more elaboration on this concept...

google wrote:

The response seems to be discussing the individual as opposed to the collective.
Who will be able to inhabit the Earth, post-2012 ?
Will the negative forces that have been with us through this 3rd density, be able to withstand the more dense eather, post-2012 ? 


Perhaps I misunderstand the significance of 2012.

This is both an individual and a collective issue.  But no one can
create in another's experience--we are the source of what occurs in our world.  That's the meaning of what Gandhi said:  "Be the change you want to see in the world."

The shift to 4D also has much to do with our relationship to time, as tenetnosce observed.  One source I've read said the most important thing to remember in breaking our conneciton to 3D is this: The present is not the result of the past.