Marcus wrote: I think one of the ways forward is for first people to learn to mind their own business - and stop infringing their ego upon others. When all people can
do is shout their beliefs and opinions it eventually hits up against other people who also hold strong opinions and beliefs. We then end up with a right
mess as this thread illustrates so well. This thread could almost be a allegory for the Icke situation. Icke on one side shouting his opinions and the
conventional masses on the other side shouting their opinions.-----
"I think one of the ways forward is for first people to learn to mind their own business - and stop infringing their ego upon others." I agree.
But the remainder of that paragraph begs some questions. I'll respond to some of your comments and observations with some of my own; trusting you'll tolerate my
meandering and not dismiss it because it's not perfectly composed/written.
First, although I feel that Neo's open letter to Icke is powerful, well written and more, I did also detect in it this -- that Neo had invested much (financially,
emotionally, intellectually) in Icke and now was feeling unsatisfied/dissatisfied with "the relationship". He seemed to want more and different "things" from Icke.
Neo's letter therefore was about Neo expressing his beliefs and opinions. Strong ones. All in all, I feel that it's a good letter. But it is primarily Neo's opinions, beliefs,
no matter how you slice, dice, interpret it.
Then things took an ugly twist/turn. Several people came out in defence of Lyra. Some in defence of both (the peacemakers, I assume). Only a few dared to defend
Jen who was mostly on her own and who did quicky extend "an olive branch" which was apparently ignored by Lyra, who just wouldn't let up on her and continued
to insult, berate and mock her. Jen's tepid "insult" , her remark to Lyra seemed to have hit a sore button/nerve. (btw I was shocked by what I read as vain
self-congratulations Lyra). There was some minor debate on the value of humility [jesus h, as if humility is a ever bad thing! It's a world away from self-deprecation
for those who don't grok the enormous differences. Humility begets grace and compassion. Self-deprecation begets neuroses and inferiority/superiority complexes.]
There was even a post from Christine B., gently calling for "consideration". And a curious, but notable remark from Neo (before the ugly turn btw) about Lyra's
"considerable wrath". Subtle sarcasm or friendly humour? I can't say. Still, later Ayahuasca initiated another thread, along with a thoughtful piece on who we really
are; stating he was moved to post it because of what was going wrong in this thread.
Also, I hastily wrote something, posted it, and deleted it almost immediately, since it didn't feel right. I thought it would only fan the flames and would do no good.
Even you Marcus jumped in to defend Lyra, after first hesitating; and your words were all opinions and beliefs. So it is quite ironic that you wrote what you just did.
Furthermore, this site is filled with strong opinions and beliefs, along with some original articles, commentary (more opinions), etcetera...
So, I don't get what you're completely proposing -- is it that only certain beliefs and opinions should be stated here? Or only those with which you or others agree
with? In any case, it sounds to me like an impossible proposition and would make for a far less interesting site. So I remain confused by the glaring contradictions in
your commentary.
Noble Realms is a good name, and a fine aspiration. There are many great posts, articles, comments...to be found here. But it's not always so noble. Sometimes it
reads like Ignoble Reams. Sadly. And sometimes it's also the cleverest or best writers/posters who behave disgracefully. It's not always the weaker writers, or
infrequent posters either who wreak havoc on this site. And sometimes it also has a cultish feel about it which imo is disturbing. C'est la vie.
Second question, regarding minding your own business. Which imo is a good, sound practice. I try to do this. But there's another aspect to "minding your own
business"...one which cannot be ignored is that this site belongs to Montalk, and Lyra by her close association/personal relationship with him. Ergo, it is his/her
business. Correct?
"The power of the press, belongs to those who own it." comes immediately to mind. And like in most any publication, if not all, whether large or small, it is the
owners who get the final say on what will/will not be published, and what will/will not be tolerated. The owners biases, preferences, etc. will be maintained and
protected, projected, reflected, and promoted within their publication. [Whether this is fair, democratic, balanced, or not is another huge subject for debate.] But,
make no mistake it is the owners who have the final word. And in the case of web sites such as this one, errant or objectionable comments (posts) which are not
favorable, desirable, ------- fill in the blanks, especially to the owners may be deleted without explanation at their will, and some may be banned. Rightly or
wrongly.
So if posters write things with which the owners agree, enjoy, whatever, it's all good. But, look out if you post anything which is construed (mistakenly or otherwise)
by the publisher/owners! You will be "marked".
This happened to me btw. Long story, so I wont' bore you with details. Suffice it is to say that I once published a joke on a forum; which in hindsight was perhaps a
little too familiar, but it was in keeping with my sense of humour, and I assumed that it would have been taken in the friendly spirit in which it was given. It wasn't. It
was received as a sarcastic insult. And no apology, no amount of explanation on my part seemed to convince the recipient of my sincerity. I was wrongly accused of
being "dishonest", a malicious gossip, and more. Since that time, although I wasn't banned from that site, I've been ignored by the owner/recipient. And it seems that
I'm now in "the dog house". There's nada I can do about it. C'est la vie. But with the hindsight surrounding everything that occured in my case, I now surmise that
when I made my joke, I must have touched an open, raw nerve/button, that I did not know was exposed. And it also seems to me that the person(s) offened had
already made their minds up about me. Ironically too, the whole fiasco actually revealed much about them, their insecurities, etc. Furthermore, the more I read of
them, my conclusion about their insecurities, childishness, and more are confirmed.
Ironies abound in many comments, articles, and posts that I've also read here. Particularly in certain posts where one person admonishes another for being defensive,
when it's painfully obvious that its the accuser who's the defensive one. There are many other examples. I won't waste anyone's time belabouring this point.
It's as if the person who screams at another/others for not looking in their mirrors and seeing their faults, weaknesses, etc, is the same person who needs to heed
precisely what they're ranting/raving, preaching, writing about. Often times, those who complain about others 'feeding the moon' are the very same persons who are
doing the "feeding". I can't count how many times I've read/seen this happen here, there and elsewhere.
I'll end my post with this thought:
S/he who owns the press may have the final word/s. Even the final "cut". But it is s/he who cares the most who wins. 
paraphrasing Art of War.
Btw, this will be my final post here. I'll attempt to graciously exit before the door is slammed behind me. 
I don't care to stay anywhere that I'm not truly welcome
a dios,
)