• Registered: 2004-09-17

Re: An open letter to David Icke.

Perhaps I'm too simple minded to reply to this intellectual discussion of David Icke, but I will proceed, for what my opinions are worth.  For starters, Icke should have long ago, changed the spelling of his last name.  I have read enough of the man to know what he's about and do appreciate his vast knowledge of the various aspects of the conspiracies, etc. Yet, for the life of me, I can not turn off my phonetics upbringing when I find him mentioned.  I still read him as Ick-ie.  His name spelt that way will forever conjure up a youthful euphmasim similar to 'yuckie'.  What a drag.   Wouldn't you change your name if it were Lipshitz?
For something to think about of, possibly, of more substance than the man's wierd name, may I offer a comment I made to a close friend regarding the conspiracy in general.  After hearing and studying all of the facets of evil being brought to bear against the human race, I had to turn and ask my friend this,  'If all of this is true, then is there anything that we can use against this evil other than the very Spirit and Power of the True and Living God?  Is there any human machination that could thwart, ward off or kill outright, this terrible force and restore us to safety and peace?  Therefore I might applaud Icke's vast knowledge, but the man just might have one critically loose screw..which will forever keep him ineffective as a teacher, leader and fighter against it all.  Could that missing part be his disconnected relationship with his creator?  I think the man needs to be grafted into the family of God...until then he may work, but his name is not on the employee list.   There are others, too,  who also exhibit great intellectual strength in assessing and dissiminating the truth, but they refuse to connect the dots to what was written in the Bible about man's need for a personal relationship with his maker. through Jesus Christ.

  • From: LA
  • Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: An open letter to David Icke.

meerkat wrote:

I'm all for Icke spreading this information and getting people to acclimatize to these ideas, but I think he would reach even more people if he somehow worded it in a slightly more accesible way.

I agree with you aya, with Stewie theres a different vibe, a really friendly, warm vibe smile

meerkat,

I understand what you are trying to say but I rather have somebody telling me the truth straight up than spoon feeding me.  for instance:

"Lee, you smell terrible!" [Now, this is straight up]

instead of,

"Lee, you have this "Je ne sais quois" about you......a very distinctive aroma that makes you sort of unique" [This is pampering me, afraid of hurting my feelings]

This is probably a bad example but it will have to do. 

Regards

18 Reply by meerkat

  • meerkat
  • Guest

Re: An open letter to David Icke.

Lyra wrote:

Well, that's their problem then, isn't it?  Think about it.  If that's too much for them, and it turns them off, then let them close the book and walk away.

You can't please everybody.

Trying to tone it down to appease the "sensitive" types, (which is what would make you happy) means the people with thick skins lose out because they're not receiving straight forward, in your face information that they're looking for.

Blaring from the rooftops with reckless abandon pleases the people who can handle it, but scares off the sensitive people.

So you really can't win then.  So in the end, just be true to yourself.  For David Icke, blaring from the rooftops was what was true to him.  Others like to tip toe, and sugar coat, and whisper while simultaneously flinching and ducking.  That's what's right for them.   If you spend all of your time trying to please everybody so nobody gets alienated you'll just go in circles and accomplish nothing.   Somebody's always going to be unhappy no matter what you do, that's just the nature of life.  So we have to do what we're guided to do, what would please *us.*

I didn’t mean people will close the book because they are to “sensitive”  and scared of the material, I meant that they would automatically see Icke as a nutter!

I mean c’mon, Royals chompin on a Little Jimmy’s legbone and this is pure fact, nope, the Royals are definetly shape shiftin kiddie eatin monsters! Can’t you see that the majority of the worlds population would perceive that? Straight away most people are like “ummm…right.” 

He states this information so directly, that’s the where the problem lies. Not a possible theory is that… It may be that…Just Bang! Queen Eats Kids and Is A Big Lizard and this is fact!

One question. Wheres the proof? Gotta have some serious evidence to back that baby up.

Icke’s alright, although he should maybe find some solid evidence before making such wild claims.

19 Reply by Neomatrix (edited by Neomatrix 2005-12-01 19:19:35)

  • From: Zion
  • Registered: 2004-09-28

Re: An open letter to David Icke.

lyra wrote:

Neomatrix - That was a good follow-up post, with a lot of great insight.  Thanks for posting that.  smile  It would make a really good article, actually. Just a suggestion.   Maybe something that combines both your open letter to David as well as your second post, for further elaboration?  I don't know, just an idea.   (hint hint!)  I really think it's good though, and there are a lot of us getting to this point right now.  I wrote my little article about a nearly related concept, which is on the NR front page, which was in turn picked up by that Tim Boucher dude, and posted on his blog because he himself had recently been saying the same things.  But this has become an issue of sorts for those who have been following the conspiracy research for years.   We've all burned ourselves out, and have come to see how much of it is full of folly;  chasing our own tails, talking the talk but not walking the walk, and all that.   There are so many people out there who are stuck, in a perpetual state of stagnation right now in terms of conspiracy research.  They're behaving like you outlined in your last post.  A wake up call is always a good thing, which is what your 2 posts are all about.   So, just an idea.  You write REALLY well, and maybe an article is in order.  smile

Hmmn, well cool. I'm glad you liked my rantings smile Really it's all just stuff I needed to get off of my chest. I'm cutting the conspiracy stuff out of my diet now. It carries far too much negativity in it for my liking, and seems to have a knock-on effect of easing me into a more cynical, pessimistic frame of mind. So, out it goes. It isn't that I don't care about these bad things that are happening to people elsewhere in the world, but hey - there's nothing I can do about it, and nothing I should be doing about it. At the end of the day, I can only be responsible for myself, and for my own thoughts, actions, words, and deeds.

I will have a go at merging the two posts together, then expanding it out into a full blown article later on.

"Fear is the great barrier to human growth. Unknowns create fears. When these Unknowns become Knowns the fears diminish and disappear, and we are able to cope with whatever confronts us." - Robert A. Monroe

20 Reply by Mystical Girl (edited by Mystical Girl 2005-12-01 20:09:40)

  • Registered: 2005-08-30

Re: An open letter to David Icke.

Neomatrix wrote:

It hardly matters whether or not there is a race of nasty Reptilians controlling our financial, educational, political, media and healthcare systems. It isn't the bloody Reptilians that are the real problem down here - it's us; and as long as yourself and others keep endlessly spouting on about how nasty these lizard folks are you're simply distracting the real human beings on this planet from actually taking responsibility for themselves, and making a positive change. Knowingly or not, you're only engaging in further promoting victim mentality, thus disempowering people even more, and keeping them locked within a false cage of self-imposed experiential limitation.

Neomatrix wrote:

I've had quite enough already. There ain't nothing down here that's a threat to you other than the depths of your own self-imposed ignorance. And I'm not talking here about an ignorance of this now overly grandiose conspiracy. I'm talking here about the only ignorance that matters: the ignorance of your own true self. There can be no single question of more import to any self-aware entity than that of: who am I, really? Anything else can rapidly become a powerful distraction from this most worthwhile of pursuits. Thinking about conspiracies is easy; thinking about yourself, and periodically re-evaluating each and every one of the beliefs that you hold dear, is anything but.

That was great.  Thanks for your wonderfully insightful and well-written posts.


meerkat wrote:

I didn’t mean people will close the book because they are to “sensitive…  and scared of the material, I meant that they would automatically see Icke as a nutter!

I mean c’mon, Royals chompin on a Little Jimmy’s legbone and this is pure fact, nope, the Royals are definetly shape shiftin kiddie eatin monsters! Can’t you see that the majority of the worlds population would perceive that? Straight away most people are like “ummm…right.… 

He states this information so directly, that’s the where the problem lies. Not a possible theory is that… It may be that…Just Bang! Queen Eats Kids and Is A Big Lizard and this is fact!

One question. Wheres the proof? Gotta have some serious evidence to back that baby up.

Icke’s alright, although he should maybe find some solid evidence before making such wild claims.

I understand what you mean.  My only exposure to David Icke other than what I've read on this site was a number of his articles I read several years ago, about the blood lines and reptillians and the royal family etc.   (Oh, and I have a recording of an interview somewhere also.)

Very outrageous claims.  I had read about the Lizzies in Bringers of the Dawn, and so I just filed his rather wild assertions away in the back of my mind.   

Could be true, could be a wild-imagination and/or disinformation.    I don't have any personal experience so I'm not completely sure what is the truth about all that.   He does seem to have a very strong conviction about it, though.

However, I have on occasion thought to myself that if TPTB wanted to discredit the conspiracy community and keep it on the fringe, and unaccepted by the majority - making the cornerstone theories things like what meerkat mentions would be the easiest way to make sure that most people would dismiss it as ludicrous.  Most people don't even realize there's more to the universe than what they perceive through their five senses... so the reptillian royal family would be very difficult to swallow.   

I don't know if Icke and others were fed such ideas, knowingly or unknowingly... or if it's all 100% true.   It's not something I can conclusively prove, though I would not discount the possiblity of anything out of hand.

I do think it can keep people away from some of the more useful, provable facts that could actually empower people... like information about the monetary system for example, and the money and people behind the war machine.  But you start throwing around claims about the royal family being reptillian aliens who sacrifice babies or whatnot, and most people I know would dismiss all of it as bunk.   

Wouldn't that serve the PuppetMasters well?  Keeping the puppets from even realizing their strings are being pulled by telling them they're being pulled by something so outrageous and unfathomable, they think you're silly or insane for suggesting they're puppets in the first place?   Just wondering.

...but they refuse to connect the dots to what was written in the Bible about man's need for a personal relationship with his maker. through Jesus Christ.

I prefer a direct personal relationship (without a middleman) ... but whatever works for you.  It's all good.  smile

  • From: Zion
  • Registered: 2004-09-28

Re: An open letter to David Icke.

This thread is now available in ... emmm ... "article format":

http://noblerealms.org/articles/an-open … david-icke

"Fear is the great barrier to human growth. Unknowns create fears. When these Unknowns become Knowns the fears diminish and disappear, and we are able to cope with whatever confronts us." - Robert A. Monroe

22 Reply by wandering1 (edited by wandering1 2005-12-02 11:33:45)

  • Registered: 2004-04-01

Re: An open letter to David Icke.

Neomatrix wrote:

One can only assume the reason that conspiracy theory has become so popular in today's society is simply because... well... it makes life here on planet Earth seem bloody interesting again.

Well, yes indeed.  So things become interesting again.

Is this a call for informed spiritual action taking the place of rhetoric?

That makes sense to me.

At the same time there are many people becoming exposed to a set of "conspiratorial" ideas for the first time and I find that some of them are ready and willing to throw out the whole set of ideas all at once.

I sense a feeling that some people don't want to deal with the whole "icky" mess at all.  Life as usual and all that it entails - Isn't that enough?

"I'm not ready for interdimensional and intergalactic politics, and perhaps you (the speaker of ideas and possibilites) is unbalanced for bringing up these ideas in the first place."

But maybe this is already well understood.  There may be resistance to unconventional ideas before they become conventional (obvious).

  • Risen
  • Risen
  • The Anti-Ism
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2005-09-30

Re: An open letter to David Icke.

I'm perfectly OK with the "Icke-y" business -- the reptile stuff doesn't bother me anymore.  And if he has reason (even if it's only anecdotal) to think the Queen is a lizzy, then I applaud him for being bold enough to share it with us.  I'm all for that.

All I've been seeking from these guys is a) some positive talk, and b) some *useful* and *feasible* advice or solutions.

It's time for solutions -- enough talk!  I believe we've already reached "critical mass", and are in the process of wasting time and losing important resources.  Think of how many people "woke up" but then went back to sleep because nobody was making a move.  "Well nobody else is doing anything, and I can't do it myself, so... ZZzzzzz...  Honestly I'm about 2 steps from just throwing in the towel myself and going back to sleep.  The only thing stopping me from doing that is, the "plug" wont fit my "socket" -- never did, never will.  So I can never live in acceptance of the illusion; the illusion can't even mildly entertain me.

We can't wait for *everyone* to wake up -- we don't have time.  It took generations and generations for us to get this bad, and the mindset cannot be "undone" in one lifetime.  It will take generations to reverse the damage to a point where most people will awake.  And I ask you, do we have this long?  I for one, think not.  The system is in motion at such a fast pace, we'll be lucky if we get through this decade with a shred of freedom remaining.  So while Alex and co. seem to be waiting for everyone to wake up and see the light, I say that *will never* happen, and certainly *not soon enough*!  Regardless, I refuse to accept the thought of allowing this to continue beyond my natural lifetime.

Someone needs to step up to the plate with solutions.  And since none of these guys can/will, perhaps it's up to people like *us* to put our heads together and create some.  I certainly don't claim to know the answer(s), but I'm sure if a group of intelligent truth-seeking and freedom-seeking individuals put their heads together, some viable solutions will become apparent.

We certainly couldn't do worse than these guys, or our parents, or their parents have.

This is no time for the righteous
Only the wicked survive
Bake up a batch of the Yellow Cake
Bake up a batch of the lies
- - - - -[ Yellow Cake - Ministry - Rio Grande Blood (2006)

24 Reply by Marcus (edited by Marcus 2005-12-02 04:13:46)

  • Registered: 2004-10-15

Re: An open letter to David Icke.

Just another slant on this whole topic...

"All truth passes through 3 stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."


So now the "conspiracy" is becoming accepted as truth, as being self-evident.  That means it has to have become traditional, and conventional.  This in turn means it must appeal to the lowest common denominator.

We have to ask ourselves - what did we expect to happen when all the conspiracy knowledge became mainstream?  Did we expect everyone would wake up?  History has shown that people move on to new paradigms in stages - they move slowly assimilating only one or two ideas at a time.

Did we expect one day to wake up to a world of enlightened people?  Or is it in fact more likely that people as a whole just move on to a new mass-perspective.  Simply a new way for the group as a whole to see things.

I don’t think we are ready yet for people to disconnect, and to fully individualize.  It is happening for a few people…but for the masses it is a long way of yet.

So in the meantime, the masses are moving onto the next stage.  Moving from an indoctrinated idea provided by the hierarchy onto an indoctrinated idea provided by more select sources.

To those of us that have moved onto more spiritual ideals it is easy to get frustrated with these people.  After all – we have long ago learnt what these others are only just learning.  But as always the masses are two or three steps behind.

So the popularizing of conspiracy theory is indeed a change.  It is a sign that the world is indeed changing.  But do we need to worry that this popularizing of conspiracy theory is in itself a conspiracy?  I think we should be neither worried nor frustrated…because ultimately this can only lead in one direction.  Up.

Think about it.  Once the masses are provided with tools that teach them to think for themselves, it can only be a matter of time before they indeed actually do start to think.

Centuries ago the hierarchy didn’t like the masses reading.  The powers feared the knowledge it would give people.  But eventually everyone learnt to read and write.  And did this change the world?  Not straight away no, because everyone was too conditioned into their current way of life.  So the powers felt safe.  That it was okay for the masses to read and write after all.

But two or three generations later things would change; a whole new society without the ties of the previous generations – without the old conditioning etc.  And so came all the revolutions.

So now we find ourselves once again in the same situation; people getting access to the conspiracy knowledge.  But how else are they to use it – other than in a method they have been taught to use knowledge?

Our education systems and society teaches us that knowledge is passive.  That it is something static to be idolized.  So why would we have realistically expected that when the masses caught onto conspiracy knowledge it would be any different?

I think rather than being frustrated we should be joyful.  The knowledge is out there at last.  Frustration comes from a conditioned mind with a short-term view.  Think.  How will this knowledge affect people two or three generations down the line?  It is out there now.  The knowledge is being accepted rather than ridiculed.  Ultimately that can only lead to one conclusion over which the hierarchy can have no control.

Meanwhile we sit hear in our spiritual trees and can look down at all those others.  Forgetting that in doing so it means we are doing exactly the same thing we did when we learnt our first conspiracy lesson.  Elevating ourselves and looking down at the masses – even if only on a subconscious level.

It seems to me that spirituality and metaphysics are the new "conspiracies".  Metaphysics is wacky, and way-out there.  It is fruitcake, nutty and weird.  So why would the masses accept it.  Quite simply; they wouldn’t.

The masses are always two or three steps behind.  Give them time they will catch up…and who knows by then maybe we will be floating around on the astral plane wondering at how these others are so slow to catch on to that old mainstream "metaphysics"  idea.

We just need to look at it from the correct perspective.  To only view something in terms of years or our lifetime is a perspective that is entirely ego driven.

Change is encouraging.  And eventually, on a long enough time scale – people are always open to it.

Thought Manifestation

Marcus's Website

  • Registered: 2004-08-19

Re: An open letter to David Icke.

lyra wrote:
Aprogas wrote:

OT: You mean about the Time-Travelling Nazi Jehovahs?

No, he meant the one about the Teletubbies.

I found it now, there was some confusion in my memory because of the Teletubbie image at the Jehovah page. I remembered the Teletubbie page but my memory did not associate it with Montalk. Now that I have seen it again, I recall some memories on how I actually got to this place (that was a black hole for me for quite some time). I think that page was on the synchronicity tour that eventually led me to the Montalk site, which I then bookmarked, viewed a view times, but did not really dig into until the layout changed (but sensing its worth by intuition, I kept the bookmark). I remember it as a light blue/white site (but that memory may have been polluted/distorted), with various articles about, but less structured then the current layout, so it was a bit too much information at once for my taste back then.

I guess now I'll have to plead guilty as charged on being a sensational conspiracy junkie (at least back then). Remembering the early days of my conspiracy theory venturing did vaguely make me recall some of my original intentions and motivations that brought me into the circuit (but too vague to be able to put it into words). Maybe it is a tip for everyone to try to remember their early days, see what their intentions and motivations were back then, and see if they still apply and wether you have forgotten (i.e. gotten distracted from) them.

26 Reply by Human Being

  • Human Being
  • Guest

Re: An open letter to David Icke.

Very excellent post, Marcus!

Clearly stated, and applicable to so much of reality, no matter the historical era.

  • Registered: 2004-04-01

Re: An open letter to David Icke.

Second that.  Thanks Marcus.

  • Registered: 2005-12-01

Re: An open letter to David Icke.

In fairness to David Icke, I don't think he desires to be known as a teacher of all the answers but I think he has done his fair share in improving the world.
His strength is to follow the information and present information regarding the World Wide Conspiracy.
It's important for as many people as possible to have knowledge of the truth about the world so we can attempt to avoid manipulation.

If the truth is

"Power seeks power until all power remains in the hands of the most ambitious"

  then this conspiracy should become mainstream knowledge.

Is the world getting better because of David Icke ?
The answer may lie in another question.
Do we live in a world wide fascist state yet ?



Enlightenment can be very subtle.
Who knows how the unheralded work of certain individuals has affected the world for the better ?
Perhaps these individuals have become influenced by David's work.

My boss has a sign on the wall that says :

"All kinds of things can be achieved if people are willing to NOT take the credit." 

Often the most effective people are the quietest.
The catalysts.

We shouldn't feel possessive of the truth.
The truth is what reveals who and what we are and should belong to everyone.
We shouldn't be bothered by how some people respond to the truth.

In the words of a certain David Icke ......................... "You can't unhear something.".

google's Website

29 Reply by Neomatrix (edited by Neomatrix 2005-12-02 14:36:35)

  • From: Zion
  • Registered: 2004-09-28

Re: An open letter to David Icke.

Marcus wrote:

Just another slant on this whole topic...

Great post, Marcus. Allow me to take (more than!) a few moments to respond.

Marcus wrote:

We have to ask ourselves - what did we expect to happen when all the conspiracy knowledge became mainstream?  Did we expect everyone would wake up?  History has shown that people move on to new paradigms in stages - they move slowly assimilating only one or two ideas at a time.

Personally speaking, I certainly didn't expect that everyone would wake up. But I will say that perhaps I carried the expectation (silly me!) that those folks who actually enjoyed collecting such knowledge would apply it in some positive, meaningful way. Without using this knowledge to assist and facilitate a transformation of their own consciousness, thus moving the information itself into an active, enabling role, the process of collection itself becomes a mostly futile exercise.

Marcus wrote:

Did we expect one day to wake up to a world of enlightened people?  Or is it in fact more likely that people as a whole just move on to a new mass-perspective.  Simply a new way for the group as a whole to see things.

Well in that case, shifting perspective itself just means changing the angle of view, but not looking at the picture any differently. In this manner it becomes a completely passive process, with little inherent value to the observer. I guess I'm saying here that shifting perspective should also involve a shift in the process of observation itself. It shouldn't just be about seeing things differently, but also about responding to those things differently. This, to me, then becomes a more holistic, balanced process: observation, integration, transformation.

Marcus wrote:

I don’t think we are ready yet for people to disconnect, and to fully individualize.  It is happening for a few people…but for the masses it is a long way of yet.

To fully individualize? But, what does that entail exactly? I'm guessing that it means thinking for oneself, and not just accepting the point of view of others simply to appear acceptable. When did agreeing with others become so agreeable anyway? Whatever happened to the ability to take in a piece of information, mull over it, chew on it, consider it, shine the light of intellect down upon it, add in a sprinkling of intuition, then spew forth a carefully considered opinion? Are the masses all simply too afraid to have their own opinion? Or are they all just too damned lazy? Either excuse seems like a copout to me.

Marcus wrote:

So in the meantime, the masses are moving onto the next stage.  Moving from an indoctrinated idea provided by the hierarchy onto an indoctrinated idea provided by more select sources.

That's it exactly! You've hit the nail squarely on the head there. It occurs to me that the greatest gift any human being could bestow upon another is the ability to reconnect with their own higher intuitive principle, thus removing the need for any indoctrination at all (refer back to my earlier posting, and what I'd like to see in Icke's next book). David often knocks traditional education systems that resort to simply repeating the same theories over and over again until they become accepted as fact. Right? But hang on there just one dang moment: isn't he doing exactly the same thing with his books?

Marcus wrote:

To those of us that have moved onto more spiritual ideals it is easy to get frustrated with these people.  After all – we have long ago learnt what these others are only just learning.  But as always the masses are two or three steps behind.

My thought, or question, then becomes: will this move onto more spiritual ideals occur naturally (or inevitably) over a period of time as a direct result of the current paradigm shift? Or does it require the infusion of something else into the mix? What is the difference between those who have already made that leap, and those who have yet to do so?

Marcus wrote:

So the popularizing of conspiracy theory is indeed a change.  It is a sign that the world is indeed changing.  But do we need to worry that this popularizing of conspiracy theory is in itself a conspiracy?  I think we should be neither worried nor frustrated…because ultimately this can only lead in one direction.  Up.

I'm not worried about it at all, although I do think that the whole conspiracy arena is in danger of losing credibility very soon. Not everything is a conspiracy, and for those events where the presence of conspiracy can indeed be proven there's often several different conflicting theories. How soon before people get fed up?

Marcus wrote:

Think about it.  Once the masses are provided with tools that teach them to think for themselves, it can only be a matter of time before they indeed actually do start to think.

Yes. Yes! My question being: where are these tools?

Marcus wrote:

But two or three generations later things would change; a whole new society without the ties of the previous generations – without the old conditioning etc.  And so came all the revolutions.

I guess I'm wanting a spiritual revolution to occur. Hmmmn. That sounds quite cool, doesn't it?

Marcus wrote:

So now we find ourselves once again in the same situation; people getting access to the conspiracy knowledge.  But how else are they to use it – other than in a method they have been taught to use knowledge?

But they haven't been taught to use it. That's the problem. They've been taught to collect knowledge, to store it, and then to regurgitate it in parrot fashion later on down the line. But that's all.

Marcus wrote:

I think rather than being frustrated we should be joyful.  The knowledge is out there at last.  Frustration comes from a conditioned mind with a short-term view.  Think.  How will this knowledge affect people two or three generations down the line?  It is out there now.  The knowledge is being accepted rather than ridiculed.  Ultimately that can only lead to one conclusion over which the hierarchy can have no control.

But again I'll state that knowledge itself will change nothing. Knowledge doesn't affect change within people or the world in which they live. Knowledge is passive because information is passive. The tools with which to do something useful with that knowledge are still sorely missing. I suppose our traditional educational systems are mostly to blame for this problem, in that they don't encourage us to think.

Marcus wrote:

Meanwhile we sit hear in our spiritual trees and can look down at all those others.  Forgetting that in doing so it means we are doing exactly the same thing we did when we learnt our first conspiracy lesson.  Elevating ourselves and looking down at the masses – even if only on a subconscious level.

I'm glad you didn't use the phrase "spiritual elitism" there, because it is possible to have a meaningful discussion about these things without bringing in this concept of being "holier than the masses". It's also possible to accept that you may just be a tad more aware than the average Joe without turning that into an egotistical statement about being "better than him." I'm certainly not sitting in judgement here, just for the record. The source of my frustration is simply the sheer amount of navel gazing I see going on. A status quo has been reached. It's time to go back and say, "okay - what next?" Let's blaze some new trails here!

Marcus wrote:

The masses are always two or three steps behind.  Give them time they will catch up…and who knows by then maybe we will be floating around on the astral plane wondering at how these others are so slow to catch on to that old mainstream "metaphysics" idea.

The problem with the masses is that they need to be led. David Icke and his ilk led them all to the conspiracy trough, and boy did they feed! And David seems to be happy in his role, shouting "come feed at the conspiracy trough!" to all who have ears to hear. Will he ever really move on himself however? Of that, I'm not so sure.

Marcus wrote:

Change is encouraging.  And eventually, on a long enough time scale – people are always open to it.

But here's another problem. "Long enough time scale." Well, how long are we talking about here, because I can give you a fairly good idea of exactly how long they've got. We don't have decades and decades to wait anymore. The masses have already dragged their heels for long enough, and time - as we all here know - is a luxury we are fast running out of.

"Fear is the great barrier to human growth. Unknowns create fears. When these Unknowns become Knowns the fears diminish and disappear, and we are able to cope with whatever confronts us." - Robert A. Monroe
  • Registered: 2004-10-15

Re: An open letter to David Icke.

Neomatrix thanks’ I won't reply to all your paragraphs point by point - but I will respond to most of what you have mentioned.  I will also respond to some of your last points first.

Before all that though I just want to mention something about myself.  A somewhat familiar story; I was always different as a kid...I saw things differently to others, felt differently to them, that sort of thing.  This was a problem for most of my childhood, but as I got older it became a great help.  Eventually those thoughts and feelings led me to Zen Buddhism which really seemed to match with most of what I had always felt.  Eventually my study of Zen led me into various conspiracy theory, which all began to explain a lot about why the world was the way it was.  And I wanted to run out and tell everyone about this.  Eventually, the conspiracy research naturally led into the field of metaphysics which in turn led back to spirituality.  So indeed it seems that the two fields are intrinsically linked; conspiracy and spirituality - simply because they are "outside the box".

The problem is - as you have explained, conspiracy theory has been brought inside the box.  It has become a passive knowledge, something to know rather than something to do.  And in some ways - yes this is a problem.  People need to act if we want change...after all we do need a revolution of sorts, and I also would like it to be a spiritual one.

But - we need to examine what we are considering here.  Do we want to see a spiritual revolution - or do we want a spiritual revolution to occur?

If we want to see one - then it has to happen within our life time.  You mention that we are running out of time.  I used to think the same - that the world and everything else is heading to the shitter.  But...then one day I stopped and thought; "How exactly is humanity running out of time?"  Personally, I can only think of a very few things that could potentially wipe humanity in its entirety right off the face of the earth...and few of them look to be happening anytime soon.  And to be honest, there is little we can do about those things anyway.

So then I realized I wasn't thinking of great cataclysms or galactic destruction when I considered our lack of time.  Rather I was considering more anthropomorphic aspects.  Our society running down, the ecconomy crashing, people apparently degrading lower and lower, a great war, running out of resources, or maybe all of them - that sort of thing.  But then I considered how any of these were a problem?  If the economy crashed tomorrow - there would be a lot of shock, but eventually people would pick things up and carry on.  Maybe all the big institutions would be gone - no bad thing then.

If there was a great war - a lot of people would die.  But those left over would wonder what it was all about...

Or perhaps the global elite will finally implement the New World Order and tag all the population and install CCTV into our bedrooms.  That would be a massive problem to me, and probably most other people.

I could go on - there are many many possibilities of how and why our civilization is going to crash and burn.  The point is - why be fearful of that?  Why does the world population need to awaken before that happens?  Generally speaking an individual has their first spiritual awakening only when they experience something serious or greatly negative.  So why would it be different on a global scale?

Do we want to see a spiritual revolution or are we simply happy knowing that one will occur?  The former is a drive from the ego - based on a fear of our own mortality; the ego needs things to happen on the hurry up, through fear that it otherwise won't experience those things.  The spirit is not so concerned one way or the other.  But we can be content to know that such a revolution will indeed happen, be it 10 years 100 years or 500 years. Signs of that are all around – we only need look. The point is, such a change can only happen when it is good and ready - and our place is to ensure this happens by working upon ourselves.  By actively engaging our lives in spiritual activities.  Walking the walk rather than talking the talk.  Personally.

I used to worry and aggro about my parents, and family and friends and the population in general.  Why didn't they get it?  Why didn't they wake up?  But when you think about it - most of your awakening probably happened through your own effort.  Sure you read a few books along the way, met a few profound people maybe.  But on the whole the bulk of the work was driven by a need deep within you.  You ask what separates the spiritually aware, from those not quite there yet.  Well maybe it is a drive deep within some of us - that not everyone shares.

And to be honest - it isn't our place to awaken others.  No one external to you can awaken you anyway, they can certainly help...but they cannot do it for you.  It has to be an internal drive.  If you feel the need to awaken others - then this too is coming from the ego.  It is something I experienced, and it is something that can be difficult to face and to deal with.  But the responsibility of the worlds awakening is an individual task that can only happen person by person.  And that is why it will take so long...everyone needs to willingly agree to participate based upon feelings and beliefs that are internal to them.  They can't be shown the way by any great teacher - if that was the case then the world would have awoken centuries ago.

In our current society knowledge is passive.  But then what does that make the absence of knowledge?  Up till this point the masses didn't have conspiracy theory.  There was a void, an emptiness - so they just followed the norms.  Now there is conspiracy theory.  And it is becoming mainstream.  That means the "norms" are changing.  But the current generations will do little with this knowledge simply because they don't know how.  It is the next generations where the change will occur, with the ones that come after the current lot of indoctrination and materialistics.  People can only become more aware.  They cannot unsee something.  Once the knowledge is out there it can only go forward, even if that doesn't happen just yet.

This doesn't mean we should sit back on our arses and wait for all the goodness to happen however – because if we did that, then it won’t happen.  If you are spiritually aware - then you have a responsibility to yourself to work on your self.  We can't work on others - or show them the way, it is a personal journey.  But every step we take shows those that are around us a hidden strength.  They look and wonder how we do things - and why we think the way we do.  And for a few they will follow the example...and begin their own journey.

If we want to see how the world will change - we can't afford to look on a timescale of one year or a decade or a century.  That sort of timescale comes from the ego, being spiritually aware - we can understand this.  And we can therefore trust the rest of the world to take its own course, knowing that we can affect greater positive change by constantly being true to our inner self.  Living the life we feel the rest of the world should lead.

Why worry about what the neighbor thinks - with his shelves full of Icke books?  If he wants to become a collector of conspiracy theories then so be it.  Maybe his children will look at him - see all the conspiracy ideas and realize "Hey - this stuff show's you how to think for yourself!  So why the f*ck did dad never do that?  Shit - be buggered if I am going to be like him."

That's how change occurs - and it is great to be around to see one of this transitions occurring.  We can't hurry them up - they work at their own pace...and yeah it is as annoying as hell when you are already on the other side of the fence whilst some hillbilly slowly approaches that fence in wonderance trying to figure out just what it is.  Only to sit down next to it and set up home.  But be certain of it - if he doesn't climb over, his children will - and if they don't then their children will.  Even if the rest of the world is in rack and ruins, it is never too late.  "Too late" is only for the ego...only if we want to see it happen for ourselves...

Thought Manifestation

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