• Registered: 2005-11-19

Re: Ego destruction and "the plan"

quantumsurfer wrote:
oceanchild wrote:
quantumsurfer wrote:

Actually Quantumsurfer did not mention freedom in the above post. cool

hmm ...

quantumsurfer wrote:

Or do we recognise which is what and who is why and make  necessary adjustments of how and when to achieve freedom and ascend to the next level of understanding?

tongue

Eeek, my fuzzy slipper was a most nutritious breakfast yummmm, lol. YES I DID SAY FREEDOM!

Should have written freedom to ascend, funny how one little mistakenly written word can throw off the exact meaning of what I meant, to what I actually wrote. anywhoo I meant to ascend, a different freedom indeed.

17 Reply by Ayahuasca (edited by Ayahuasca 2005-11-25 14:40:09)

  • From: Peru
  • Registered: 2004-08-06

Re: Ego destruction and "the plan"

I used to also have a bit of problem with what Stuie said about the ego but after reading a recent book I now agree with him on the subject, however I think a lot comes down to your definition of ego.

The book in question is A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle, I've mentioned it in another thread and I want to rave about it again. The entire book is about understanding exactly what the ego is and how it operates, and by the end of it your left without any doubt that the ego needs to be dealt with. It's not evil, but it most definitely is dysfunctional. Also dealing with it doesn't mean destroying it. Destroying the ego is impossible I'm sure. Eckhart's solution is to become present in every moment. When you're truly present there can be no ego.

Anyway here's a few excerpts below. The book is so good there's literally something on almost every page I could have quoted so it was dificult to decide to what to use. Anyway, I can't recommend this book highly enough!


Eckhart Tolle wrote:

DO YOU WANT PEACE OR DRAMA?

You want peace. There is no one who does not want peace. Yet there is something else in you that wants the drama, wants the conflict. You may not be able to feel it at this moment. You may have to wait for a situation or even just a thought that triggers a reaction in you: someone accusing you of this or that, not acknowledging you, encroaching on your territory, questioning the way you do things, an argument about money. . . . Can you then feel the enormous surge of force moving through you, the fear, perhaps being masked by anger or hostility? Can you hear your own voice becoming harsh or shrill, or louder and a few octaves lower? Can you be aware of your mind racing to defend its position, justify, attack, blame? In other words, can you awaken at that moment of unconsciousness? Can you feel that there is something in you that is at war, something that feels threatened and wants to survive at all cost, that needs the drama in order to assert its identity as the victorious character within that theatrical production? Can you feel there is something in you that would rather be right than at peace?

BEYOND EGO: YOUR TRUE IDENTITY

When the ego is at war, know that it is no more than an illusion that is fighting to survive. That illusion thinks it is you. It is not easy at first to be there as the witnessing Presence, especially when the ego is in survival mode or some emotional pattern from the past has become activated, but once you have had a taste of it, you will grow in Presence power, and the ego will lose its grip on you.

And so a power comes into your life that is far greater than the ego, greater than the mind. All that is required to become free of the ego is to be aware of it, since awareness and ego are incompatible. Awareness is the power that is concealed within
the present moment. This is why we may also call it Presence. The ultimate purpose of human existence, which is to say, your purpose, is to bring that power into this world. And this is also why becoming free of the ego cannot be made into a goal to be attained at some point in the future. Only Presence can free you of the ego, and you can only be present Now, not yesterday or tomorrow. Only Presence can undo the past in you and thus transform your state of consciousness.

What is spiritual realization? The belief that you are a spirit? No, that's a thought. A little closer to the truth than the thought  that believes you are who your birth certificate says you are, but still a thought. Spiritual realization is to see clearly that what I perceive, experience, think, or feel is ultimately not who I am, that I cannot find myself in all those things that continuously pass away. The Buddha was probably the first human being to see this clearly, and so anata (no self) became one of the central points of his teaching. And when Jesus said, "Deny thyself," what he meant was: Negate (and thus undo) the illusion of self. If the self-ego-were truly who I am, it would be absurd to "deny" it.

What remains is the light of consciousness in which perceptions, experiences, thoughts, and feelings come and go. That is Being, that is the deeper, true I. When I know myself as that, whatever happens in my life is no longer of absolute but only of relative importance. I honor it, but it loses its absolute seriousness, its heaviness.

The only thing that ultimately matters is this: Can I sense my essential Beingness, the I Am, in the background of my life at all times? To be more accurate, can I sense the I Am that I Am at this moment? Can I sense my essential identity as consciousness itself? Or am I losing myself in the mind, in the world?

I think this next passage is probably more in tune with what Stuie is really saying. That diminishing the ego does not make you selfless or powerless. On the contrary, it actually makes you more powerful.


Eckhart Tolle wrote:

ALLOWING THE DIMISHMENT OF THE EGO

The ego is always on guard against any kind of perceived diminishment. Automatic ego-repair mechanisms come into effect to restore the mental form for "me". When someone blames or criticizes me, that to the ego is diminishment of self, and it will immediately attempt to repair its diminished sense of self through self-justification, defense, or blaming. Whether the other person is right ot wrong is irrelevant to the ego. It is much more interested in self preservation than in truth. This is the preservation of the psychological form of "me." Even such a normal thing of shouting something back when another driver calls you "idiot" is an automatic and unconscious ego-repair mechanism. One of the most common ego-repair mechanisms is anger, which causes a temporary but huge ego inflation. All repair mechanisms make perfect sense to the ego but are actually dysfunctional. Those that are most extreme in their dysfunction are physical violence and self-delusion in the form of grandiose fantasies.

A powerful spiritual practice is consciously to allow the diminishment of ego when it happens without attempting to restore it. I recommend that you experiment with this from time to time. For example, when someone criticizes you, blames you, or calls you names, instead of immediately retaliating or defending yourself-do nothing. Allow the self-image to remain diminished and become alert to what that feels like deep inside you. For a few seconds, it may feel uncomfortable, as if you had shrunk in size. Then you may sense an inner spaciousness that feels intensely alive. You haven't been diminished at all. In fact, you have expanded. You may then come to an amazing realization: When you are seemingly diminished in some way and remain in absolute nonreaction, not just externally but also internally, you realize that nothing real has been diminished, that through becoming "less," you become more.

When you no longer defend or attempt to strengthen the form of yourself, you step out of identification with form, with mental self-image. Through becoming less (in the ego's perception), you in fact undergo an expansion and make room for Being to come forward. True power, who you are beyond form, can then shine through the apparently weakened form. This is what Jesus means when he says, "Deny yourself" or "Turn the other cheek."

This does not mean, of course, that you invite abuse or turn yourself into a victim of unconscious people. Sometimes a situation may demand that you tell someone to "back off in no uncertain term. Without egoic defensiveness, there will be power behind your words, yet no reactive force. If necessary, you can also say no to someone firmly and clearly, and it will be what I call a "high-quality no" that is free of all negativity

If you are content with being nobody in particular, content not to stand out, you align yourself with the power of the universe. What looks like weakness to the ego is in fact the only true strength. This spiritual truth is diametrically opposed to the values of our contemporary culture and the way it conditions people to behave.

Instead of trying to be a mountain, teaches the ancient Tao Te Ching, "Be the valley of the universe." In this way, you are restored to wholeness and so "all thing, will come to you."

Similarly, Jesus, in one of his parables, teaches that "When you are invited, go and sit in the lowest place so that when your host comes, he may say to you, friend, move up higher. Then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at table with you. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

Another aspect of this practice is to refrain from attempting to strenghen the self by showing off, wanting to stand out, be special, make an impression, or demand attention. It may include occasionally refraining from expressing your opinion when everybody is expressing his or hers, and seeing what that feels like.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/052594 … p;v=glance

Andy

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Ayahuasca's Website

  • Registered: 2004-06-24

Re: Ego destruction and "the plan"

I'll second that opinion on Tolle's new book "The New Earth".  I have found great peace by trying to apply the principles he speaks of, and I am barely scratching the surface. Tolle speaks the truth.

  • From: England
  • Registered: 2005-04-20

Re: Ego destruction and "the plan"

Sowelu wrote:

Having to deal with a rather large ego myself in this life, I disagree that someone with a size ten ego has a size one soul (naturally I'd think that, eh? tongue). Seriously, though, I think the relationship can easily be 1:1. If someone has a large ego, it's their soul essence being co-opted by the personality self. The larger the ego, the more power or essential energy is available to that person to be co-opted, and it comes from their core (and we're all far more than we realize).

Sorry i really meant megalomaniac types  as having a size ten ego having little spirituality/soulness
A poor model to use in hindsight smile


Symbolically could a "balanced" ego could be pictured as http://www.thisischurch.com/images/trinit6.gif
the three interlocking circles representing mind spirit and body and where they meet in the middle would represent the balanced ego.

Its not like we are fractions of the whole but rather versions of the whole.
  • Registered: 2005-11-19

Re: Ego destruction and "the plan"

I just dont know how you can balance something thats whole existance is a created reality, another words it is a part of the holograph.

Putting that aside I agree Ayahuasca of what Stuie was asserting there too, as it being a means of empowerment.

I spent a great amount of time finally getting that yesterday, as the thread made me put things I have been reading from many sources into perspective. Much of my time was practicing active awareness of every word I thought, as a believer of "you are what you create."

And I dont mean just the overall syllabus  we arranged for the lessons. I mean actively creating with our thoughts every moment now, and the matured understanding of the overall lesson plan is to not only come to the realization but to be that matured understanding/responsible creator!

Everytime the ego piped up I said sorry, not having none of your thoughts now, I'm busy creating-insert positive thing here like joy, etc.. so shush!

Then moment by moment I actively practiced what I deemed as good fruit! Mind you in the scheme of things I know as far as the school goes there is no real bad/good...  its all a matter of perspective, because if both teach, then both are required for the learning curve!

on a lighter note:

"Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm halfway through
my fish burger and I realize, Oh my God....I could be eating a slow
learner."
      --Lynda Montgomery

tongue

  • Registered: 2005-11-19

Re: Ego destruction and "the plan"

oceanchild wrote:
quantumsurfer wrote:

Everytime the ego piped up I said sorry, not having none of your thoughts now, I'm busy creating-insert positive thing here like joy, etc.. so shush!

so then there was conflict in the mind - you noticed the 'ego' and you inserted something postive because you didn't want what you noticed ...

QS here: wouldnt really call it a conflict, but you can see it that way if you choose.

in essense, isn't this one thought trying to dominate another thought ? aren't you breaking up the mind into fragments ?

QS here: No mind wasn't fragmented, because I am asserting my eternal/higher self/spirit which is not of that which is the physicality self, but rather the creator of it. The mind is intact, I just chose not to listen to its drivel, afterall it is the vice that keeps me blinded with fears, mistrusts, angers, etc... Those were good tools to help me learn, but not so productive a tool to create, which I think is the next lesson plan upwards from the latter.

does the 'ego' come to rest when we're in conflict with it ? can you force your mind to be quiet ?

QS here: again there was no conflict, it tries to interject and I remind it its not permitted to interject at that time, and you allow your focus to maintain vigilance in the moment.

The ego likes to wander, it likes to worry about later, or earlier, or keep itself's importance occupied through distraction and other thought patterns, it doesn't like being ignored, but for me thats ok, because I dont like its creations, and I place more importance on my spiritual needs which is highly inspired to create more responsibly...see no conflict as my free will made a choice.

The ego wants its due attention by my full attention. This can pretty much keep me from the now moment which is where I can make a difference, so it is not such a dichotomy afterall. The choice for me is clear, the practice of course is the key as it is a discipline that again...must be maintained through vigilance of each new moment.

LOL rather like flexing the spirit muscle, afterall practice makes perfect does it not?

IMO that sounds similar to the idea of zen meditation, where they say you have to control your thoughts - that through control and discipline of thoughts you can create peace within the mind - that when you are present and assert positivity you will have it ...

QS here: If that is zen then that is zen, although I am not practicing in a meditative state, but a state of awareness. I always believed a meditative state was more of a quiet reflection and connection state through relaxation techniques to quiet and focus, but I do not meditate in a formal style or practice,  so I would not really know the difference for sure.

i guess the only way to find out is for oneself ... good luck !

QS here:Nothing could be truer....thankyou, although I believe luck is is not required and better to those things left for chance, afterall its a discipline, and luck would not produce the same results imo.

  • From: Ocean Falls
  • Registered: 2005-12-02

Re: Ego destruction and "the plan"

Self and ego are two different things. Self is the consciousness of our soul and ego is the consciousness of our physical body.

Our ego is a part of our current physical body and as such is vulnerable to injury and death just like our physical body is. Our ego realizes this and fears for its survival. Fear often drives our ego to engage in activities that are destructive to ourselves and/or others. When we cannot distinguish (seperate?) between self and ego, self is often obscured by the fear present in ego.

To separate our self from our ego is to realize there is nothing to fear because self is our soul and is eternal. This is not to say that our ego or our physical body are unimportant, they are our current window onto existence and should be nourished and cared for with love and compassion. Once we realize self we can empower ego and reduce ego's fear.... existence then becomes peaceful for both self and ego.

Food for thought...  smile I have posted a long explanation of the following concept elswhere and I will introduce it here at some point but for now I will just pose an alternative perspective of ego.

What if ego is separate from self but also eternal? We have a time limited connection to our ego so how could ego survive once we are gone? What if ego was not our personal property but like a rental car we only use for a journey. Many people can/do use the same rental car. Perhaps a webcam is a better analogy as many people can view the same reality at the same time but from different places.