211 Reply by Jen (edited by Jen 2005-10-28 10:39:23)

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Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

I'm resposting this which I posted some pages back. 

The thing is, when we really get into the subtleties of how we create our reality, then if they are there, we have in some way given them permission, as indicated by the title of Lyssa Royal's book Visitors From Within.

That book goes into depth on this question, and there is a whole chapter about how to stop an abduction if we wish.  In other words, even if we have initially given permission on a subconscious level, we can still change our minds.  But, most people are still so stuck in the "victim" mindset that it doesn't even occur to them that all they have to do is say "No" and mean it.  There is a proclamation they recommend be given from a sense of empowerment:  I do not need this experience in the form that it is occurring. I desire to change this communication.

More from "Visitors":  "The abduction experience really works in a very clear way with the idea that you are the creators of your reality. On your Earth you are not necessarily aware that when you think something, it manifests, because there are many things between the original thought and the manifestation.  The abduction experience is more direct. It plays on your beliefs on yourself and your world.  Therefore, if you believe you can be a victim, if you believe your world is somehow being controlled---any of those beliefs--they will be played out and reflected back to you in the abduction experience.  So changing the experience means changing those beliefs and proclaiming a new belief that you would like to express."

We are the ones who have put the "abduction" label on the experience; in doing so we have pre-judged it. I've never experienced an abduction myself, or if I have, I don't remember it.  I do hold that we can't ever totally reclaim our power if we continue to put that power outside of ourselves, as we do whenever we abdicate owning our creations. As it says in Visitors >From Within: "It is time now to recognize that nothing happens to you from another source.  You are the source generating all experiences that you have."

  • From: The Singularity
  • Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

Haven wrote:

Okay, if we are to go on the assumption of there being laws of freewill, how can we say what is freewill and what isn't?  Isn't it a common belief that we experience things for our own good, whether for good or for bad?  So everytime the universe or higher self doesn't consult me, am I to say that my freewill has been violated because I have not stipulated exactly what is okay and what is off limits?  (Reminds me of the belief that if we are not aware of it, it is the same as saying yes.)  I see that the assumption is that freewill works on a more subtle level.

Let's back up for a minute and forget about aliens.  Let's just talk about normal everyday people in your life.

What do you think Haven?  You have a will.  Others have wills.  Sometimes they are in conflict.

How do you handle this in your life?  What is your viewpoint?  Answer your own questions.

It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.

213 Reply by Haven

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Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

I didn't include aliens in that last post.  big_smile   

Whatever happens, happens the way it does.  Each instance is taken on its individual basis.  I can act according to my belief of freewill, but I will never know what is the best for me or the other person.  I will, however, walk away with whatever happened and try to further my wisdom.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

214 Reply by whywhywhy (edited by whywhywhy 2005-10-28 11:10:25)

  • From: LA
  • Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

Haven wrote:

I didn't include aliens in that last post.  big_smile   

Whatever happens, happens the way it does.  Each instance is taken on its individual basis.  I can act according to my belief of freewill, but I will never know what is the best for me or the other person.  I will, however, walk away with whatever happened and try to further my wisdom.

Haven,

If you truly listen to your heart you will know what is best for you.  The wisdom is there for you to grasp.  Going back to abductions, what wisdom are you to gain by experiencing an alien sticking a probe up your rectum? Are you goint to tell me that it hurted but whatever happens happens?  I think not!  More than likely you will be outraged, feeling helpless.....violated.  That my friend is a violation of your "free will" merely because you did not consent and it was not on your "to do" list for today.  Or, because whatever happens happens are you going to add it to your "to do" list for tomorrow?  Haven, if you had the power to stop it I know you would..............That is Free Will!

Please do not take my example offensively.  I am just trying to plainly but convincingly make my point.  I hope I did.

215 Reply by Jen

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Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

whywhywhy wrote:

Going back to abductions, what wisdom are you to gain by experiencing an alien sticking a probe up your rectum? Are you goint to tell me that it hurted but whatever happens happens?  I think not!  More than likely you will be outraged, feeling helpless.....violated.  That my friend is a violation of your "free will" merely because you did not consent and it was not on your "to do" list for today.  Or, because whatever happens happens are you going to add it to your "to do" list for tomorrow?  Haven, if you had the power to stop it I know you would..............That is Free Will!

Please do not take my example offensively.  I am just trying to plainly but convincingly make my point.  I hope I did.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/emotiona.html

216 Reply by Haven (edited by Haven 2005-10-28 17:29:55)

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Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

I'm saying whatever happens happens, in that whatever has happened has happened, and whatever will happen will happen whenever it does happen, not that I desire it to happen, or that I am indifferent to it when it does happen.  As far as I know, aliens aren't probing butts, unless you take into account other people's testimony (which is questionable, for reasons I have cited, though not impossible), and, further, how uniform is this experience?  Suffice it to say, if someone had an unpleasant experience, that is what I would take away from this, and, no, I wouldn't want that person to see a bad experience as a good thing, nor would I want this experience to repeat itself, but this doesn't mean a) all grays are bad or there is a uniformly evil gray agenda, and/or b) it is a violation of freewill, when taken into full context (higher self, projection, "bigger picture", whatever).

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

217 Reply by Sowelu (edited by Sowelu 2005-10-28 13:40:34)

  • Registered: 2005-06-26

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

There are many events that occur in our lives that we feel we didn't or wouldn't choose. This is no different. Plain fact is, at some level of Self the choice was made (or is continually made). Either covertly or overtly.  Free Will was exercised. The consciousness of the experiencer just hasn't recognized that yet. 

What I mean there is that if one carries certain emotional issues in hiding within their emotional body and have refused to face them for whatever reason (and some people don't simply because they don't "believe" it's of any value to do so), those emotional energies act like homing beacons for experiences that will raise that hidden emotional energy to the surface.

So a person's refusal to do anything with, or their ignorance of, or denial of, their hidden emotional energy is a covert decision to allow whatever might come from those energies, to come to them in the form of experiences.

If we begin any examination of experience from the stance that we already are sovereign, we can learn a whole lot about the value of some of our darker experiences and choices. If we view our experiences from a position of victim, all we see are perpetrators, predators and other victims. A pretty hopeless, helpless stance on all that is. We might even look for "someone else" to solve our problems of victimization, because as a victim, we certainly won't feel able to rectify what was "done to us". If we don't "own it", we really can't do anything about it.

If, on the other hand, we understand we chose it, there's a whole lot more we can do with it because we start off empowered. It's in our purview and we know it, so we can set about discovering everything we want to about it, right to the root cause. The choice of what to do with our experiences is always ours.

So what really is the issue with abductions? They are the perfect trigger to wake up to our sovereignty or reclaim our wholeness. With an abduction, someone else seems to have control of you - "steals you away in the dead of night". This is a reflection of the idea that your own hidden, "in the dark" life force has control of you, in ways you don't recognize or understand, and when your conscious mind is not quite savvy or paying attention.

During your days, you seem to have control of what happens to you, and you live by conscious choice. But at night... something else altogether happens. As soon as you let your guard down and the conscious mind you use so efficiently by day goes to sleep... something else takes you over. Hmmm. Again, indicative of the fact that you are not conscious of all that rules your own life. And that you are at the whim of those things not in your conscious awareness, whether you like it or not. And yet don't forget, you are sovereign. If you look at it this way, it becomes time to discover these dark or hidden energies in self that keep creating painful experiences, does it not? Otherwise you are "forever victim".

This something "else" harms you, too. "Else" meaning that it is something you do not recognize as Self, which is another way of saying that it is not something in your conscious awareness. Again, a true reflection of what our hidden fears, anger and ignorant energies do to us until we make them conscious. This something else makes us feel powerless over our own lives... again, same deal as a reflection of what lies hidden within us.

Don't know if you follow that, but abductions are basically an experience that perfectly reflects the status of having a certain portion of one's own life force energies still hidden to their awareness and entangled in something obscured, painful and ongoing regardless of what one mentally thinks about it. It controls a person in unseen, frightening ways. It creates pain and suffering in their life. It seems to "own the night", meaning it lives in the shadow or darkness of one's consciousness.

It acts against the person unless and until the person chooses to make the entire situation conscious in the truest form possible. Which means allowing the dark energies of self to teach the conscious mind. ... Which means the conscious mind has to take a back seat to something it fears and let it be experienced without censor. ... Which is why so few actually accomplish it. Absolutely everything within the illusion is real for you as long as you need it to be. The key is you.

As I see it.

"The most important decision you have to make is whether you live in a hostile or friendly universe."
~ Albert Einstein

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. ~Marcel Proust

The evolution of humanity is an evolution of the heart. The path is through the heart.

218 Reply by whywhywhy (edited by whywhywhy 2005-10-29 05:37:11)

  • From: LA
  • Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

Jen wrote:
whywhywhy wrote:

Going back to abductions, what wisdom are you to gain by experiencing an alien sticking a probe up your rectum? Are you goint to tell me that it hurted but whatever happens happens?  I think not!  More than likely you will be outraged, feeling helpless.....violated.  That my friend is a violation of your "free will" merely because you did not consent and it was not on your "to do" list for today.  Or, because whatever happens happens are you going to add it to your "to do" list for tomorrow?  Haven, if you had the power to stop it I know you would..............That is Free Will!

Please do not take my example offensively.  I am just trying to plainly but convincingly make my point.  I hope I did.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/emotiona.html

From the url you proived:

"So, one distinction between relevant and fallacious appeals to emotion is based on the distinction between arguments which aim to motivate us to action, and those which are intended to convince us to believe something. Appeals to emotion are always fallacious when intended to influence our beliefs, but they are sometimes reasonable when they aim to motivate us to act. The fact that we desire something to be true gives not the slightest reason to believe it, and the fact that we fear something being true is no reason to think it false; but the desire for something is often a good reason to pursue it, and fear of something else a good reason to flee. "

I am not trying to convince myself to believe something.  The thread is about alien abductions.  I merely went through the exercise of asking the question and then answer as rational as possible utilizing logical approach.  When no tangible data is availble one must engage on exercises such as this one.  The question here is:

Are abductions good or bad?

Well for me to answer that question I must first ask, are aliens for real?

That is all I have done.  The conclusions I arrived to are the best I can do with the given information.  These conclussions are subject to review as new information surfaces.  But, for the time being I do not want to be abducted if I had the choice.  I understand you have your opiniion on this matter and I am glad you shared it with me.  If you feel that there could be something positive about an abduction I'll have to say "go for it" although I rather you not.  Maybe you'll come back and talk me out of my flawed conclusion.  I have no problem with that.  Always open to new ideas!

219 Reply by Jen

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Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

whywhywhy,

I don't think you could do better than to read Sowelu's excellent post on this matter.  Abductions are neither good nor bad in themselves, but if we are experiencing them, there is a reason for it and it behooves us to explore and understand the purpose behind them.  Even if (like you and me) we aren't experiencing them, it's good to understand their broader implications, and not get hung up on fearful images. 

Jen

220 Reply by Haven

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Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

Hey, why, I am like you, in that I wouldn't want to get abducted, because negativity has been instilled in me regarding these abductions.  I am wise enough to know that, in that state of mind in which abductions occurr may more than likely interfere with my processing just what has (because it is always after the fact) taken place.

I take this approach, because details vary from person to person, indicating that the more imaginative, interpretive mind has been activated.  Otherwise, why the numerous differences between each person, not just about what is happening, but in everything regarding the abduction.  (Fire in the Sky, Whitley Streiber and the aliens taking off their masks, the encounters with robots, dwarves, grays, nordics, their crafts, flying nautical ships, nazi uniforms, etc.)

Jen wrote:

whywhywhy,

I don't think you could do better than to read Sowelu's excellent post on this matter.  Abductions are neither good nor bad in themselves, but if we are experiencing them, there is a reason for it and it behooves us to explore and understand the purpose behind them.  Even if (like you and me) we aren't experiencing them, it's good to understand their broader implications, and not get hung up on fearful images. 

Jen

Yes, and negative impressions will more than likely lead to negative experiences, regardless of the true nature of the experience.  If something good happens, I will be skeptical and always resistant to the goodness.  If something neutral happens, I will only see the negative and interpret it that way.  If something bad happens, and I am overly negative towards the experience, it will possess me and my perception of the world.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.
  • From: LA
  • Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

Jen wrote:

whywhywhy,

I don't think you could do better than to read Sowelu's excellent post on this matter.  Abductions are neither good nor bad in themselves, but if we are experiencing them, there is a reason for it and it behooves us to explore and understand the purpose behind them.  Even if (like you and me) we aren't experiencing them, it's good to understand their broader implications, and not get hung up on fearful images. 

Jen

Yes sowelu's post is excellent and I understand your point.  But just because there is a good reason for the abduction or I have no control over it does not mean I welcome them or like them.  We do the same thing to 2D beings such as monkey, rats, and others for the sake of humanity.  It sounds like a noble thing to do rather than allowing humans beings to die but we are doing it at the expense of other living creatures.  They (2D beings) do not have a saying on this matter for we know better.  I think not! We should not do unto others what we do not want done unto us.  Just because the 4D creatures have a very noble and cosmic reason does not give them the right to use me or you without your consent.  I am sure there are some 4D beings that absolutely reject the use of abduction just like some human beings feel about the use of animals. 

Now if an alien comes to me and ask if I could allow them to do some tests on me then the situation or the act will not be called abduction.  They could be disinforming me and I have no way of knowing but the decision would be mine.  And hopefully I can stop it if I discover ill intentions by them.  Or, can I not?

222 Reply by Jen (edited by Jen 2005-10-30 08:29:40)

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Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

You know what, whywhywhy...I think I've said all I can say on this subject.  In fact I had concluded a while ago that we were going in circles on this, and that I wasn't going to say any more, but I got drawn in again somehow.  Anyway, I have no desire to deal with the same points over and over again, so, let's agree to disagree here.

  • From: LA
  • Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

I agree Jen.  I did learn a few things.  Thanks for hanging in there and dealing with my shortcomings.  See you in the realms.

Regards,

Lee

224 Reply by Sowelu (edited by Sowelu 2005-10-30 12:01:34)

  • Registered: 2005-06-26

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

One thing I have wanted to comment about many times but have not, for lack of a clear way to say it, is that it really doesn't matter what "their" intention is. "Their" meaning the unseen Beings with an agenda. The mistake that is often made is that it matters one whit what they might intend. It does not. What matters is you, the experiencer at this level.

As soon as focus, concern, discovery... is placed outside the self, the point of the experience is lost and the fuel for the experiences to continue, is sent. You have already given over your life force to the continuance of a situation you do not intend or desire by placing validity, concern and any other energetic efforting from your own pool of life force... on "them".

As if their intent is more important than your own. As if their goal is weightier, their power greater, or their influence more powerful than your own heart's desire and soul intent for yourself. It is not. Start there.

Here's a question: What do you think it might mean that we ourselves are multi-dimensional?

Or another: What lives inside us that is unseen? How might that correlate to an "unseen" external reflection? (both "good" and "bad", btw - angelic and demonic, even...)

The unseen at this level is easily seen in its reflection. How many times are people with low self-worth encountering someone who puts them down? How many relationships are a dance of "dark shadows" rather than heart-based love? Until we "see" it in ourselves, we encounter it outside ourselves, often pretty close to home, unfortunately. Until we "get it". It's all for our edification. It's why we're here.

How might that correlate to unseen, hyperdimensional beings? Remembering always that we are multi-dimensional in our truest state.

Have you embraced the monster within? If not, perhaps you manifest it without, rejecting it as "you", thereby giving it a life of its own. We are amazing creators in truth, if only we understood that intimately.

As long as we refuse to acknowledge the ability or capacity, and will, within ourselves to taunt, torture, induce fear in and control others, there will be an outwardly manifested "being" who does that for us (and to us, to shock us awake). Once we acknowledge and face that predator within ourselves, we no longer need to face it outside ourselves (nor do we need to act from it within ourselves). The point is simply to identify it as Self, acknowledge the power of it and transmute/use that power in "higher" ways, or to take one "higher" not "lower" in frequency.

So if we do this for ourselves, do "they", these nefarious beings, still exist? Of course! As long as any portion of the Oneself is unaware of this part of itself, it will exist as an external manifested entity (and there is always some part of the Oneself in ignorance of its totality when dealing with expressed reality). But... once you become aware of this dark part of Self, you no longer have a need to experience it "outside" yourself. And isn't that the goal?

What's the one thing that stands out about the hyperdimensional entities as tyrants? They refuse to acknowledge their True Source and insist on being gods unto themselves, feeding off others to maintain their rule and existence. Hmmm... and what are we doing by not acknowledging and unifying with our darkest energies in Self? "Refusing to acknowledge their True Source".

YOU know.... "As Within, So Without", "As Above, So Below" and all that. wink

Ideas for consideration, perhaps

"The most important decision you have to make is whether you live in a hostile or friendly universe."
~ Albert Einstein

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. ~Marcel Proust

The evolution of humanity is an evolution of the heart. The path is through the heart.

225 Reply by Jen

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Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

Great post, thanks, Sowelu. 

Sowelu wrote:

What's the one thing that stands out about the hyperdimensional entities as tyrants? They refuse to acknowledge their True Source and insist on being gods unto themselves, feeding off others to maintain their rule and existence. Hmmm... and what are we doing by not acknowledging and unifying with our darkest energies in Self? "Refusing to acknowledge their True Source".

YOU know.... "As Within, So Without", "As Above, So Below" and all that. wink

What was it Jung said?  Something like, "We don't become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

And, there's a chapter titled "Family of Dark" in the P's book Family of Light.  Quote:

Go forward into the territory of the dark and hold a lit candle to see what is there, intend to understand it, then open your heart and know that the diseased mind of the human spirit is waiting to be healed.