Topic: The Chemtrail Debate

This is a pilot's perspective from http://www.nmsr.org/pilotsvu.htm


[Chemtrails??


I have recently become interested in the “chemtrail controversy”  to which much web space is currently dedicated.  I must admit, I have certain reservations regarding the validity of the many assertions I have read and interpretations of the photos I have seen.

I hold a private pilot license and, as a pilot, I have a rudimentary understanding of meteorology and the formation of clouds and “contrails”  (condensation trails) produced by aircraft.  Much of the “chemtrail evidence”  I have seen does not mesh with solid scientific facts I have been taught as a pilot.


Contrails vs. sprayed agents

First, let’s establish how a normal contrail is formed.  When burned, fuel containing hydrogen is combined with oxygen in the air to form water vapor, among other byproducts.  Under certain conditions, that vapor will condense to form a visible trail – an artificial cloud, for all intents and purposes.  Because the high temperature of the exhaust gas keeps the water in a vapor state until it has a chance to mix with the colder surrounding air, this artificial cloud will always form some distance behind the aircraft, rather than directly aft of the engines.  If atmospheric conditions support a “persistent”  contrail, it will most likely become more visible and spread to a more natural cloud-like state with distance from the aircraft.

If an aircraft were spraying some form of liquid or powdered solid, such as bacterial agents or aluminum particulates as suggested by many theorists, it should be most visible directly behind the trailing edge of the wing (or wherever the nozzles may be located), becoming less visible as it dissipates in the atmosphere in the wake of the plane.  This is exactly what you would observe when watching a crop duster.  Yet, in every photo of an aircraft producing a “chemtrail”  I have seen, the opposite is true.  They all look like normal contrails.

Having said that, it is possible to make a sprayed agent behave as a contrail.  In the case of a liquid, it would have to be heated to the point of vaporization, so that the vapor would re-condense in a manner consistent with a normal contrail – some distance behind the aircraft.

If the liquid were used as a medium for biological agents, the temperature required would most likely kill the microbes.  If the high vapor temperature didn’t do the job, then the extremely low temperature of the surrounding atmosphere just might.  Assuming these biological agents survived the hostile environment, they would tend to have a very slow rate of descent back to earth due to their microscopic size.  (Microscopic dust from volcanoes is known to remain in the upper atmosphere for years after an eruption.)  In all likelihood, atmospheric disturbances would scatter them and they wouldn’t even land in the area they were released.  All in all, this seems an inefficient method of “bombing”  the population with any type of harmful agents, if that is the intent.

A reliable method would be to release the agents at very low altitudes, as is done by fire suppression aircraft and crop dusters.  Yet, no one seems to be presenting any evidence that this is indeed the case.

“Grids”  in the sky

Many theorists have used the observation of “chemtrail grids,”  or crosshatched contrail patterns as evidence that aircraft are blanketing target areas with sprayed agents.  To prove this, they would need two things. One: video or photographic evidence of aircraft emitting materials in a manner inconsistent with normal contrails, as described above.  Two: video evidence of a single aircraft making multiple passes over an area consistent with the formation of the grid pattern.  It would be helpful if we could actually see evidence of the spray nozzles being turned on and off during the maneuvers.

So far, I have seen no such videos, and none of the photos I have seen prove that this is the case.  All I have seen are photos of a few parallel trails and perhaps one intersecting trail.  (Why didn’t the photographers wait until the aircraft had completed real “grids”  and photograph those?)  In fact, there is a reasonable explanation for the formation of these parallel lines.

Aircraft flying above 18,000 feet are required to be on an “instrument flight plan.”   As such, they often follow “federal airways”  designed for the separation and management of air traffic – especially in the vicinity of hub airports.  Aircraft en route to the same destination are likely to be following one another on the same airway.  Think of these as highways in the sky.

Here’s what happens.  Aircraft A is traveling along airway XYZ, leaving a contrail behind.  Several minutes later, aircraft B follows on the same airway, tracking the exact same line over the surface of the earth.  It is also leaving a contrail.  However the air mass is in motion due to wind aloft, which carries the first contrail away from its original location.  The result is the contrail from aircraft B appears as a line parallel to that of aircraft A’s contrail.  Enter aircraft C, D, and E following the same airway.  You now have five parallel lines.  Add aircraft F, traveling a course perpendicular to the others, and you have the beginnings of a grid.

Another predictable multiple contrail pattern is that of a “V.”   Again, assume the air mass is in motion, carrying the contrails away from their original locations.  Aircraft alternately departing and arriving at the same hub, and following the same airway (at differing altitudes, of course) would produce this effect as their contrails alternately converge and diverge.  I believe this is what is shown in the various satellite photos that appear on many web sites, but are misinterpreted as evidence of “chemtrail grids.”

Intermittent “chemtrails”

There is no hard and fast rule regarding the elevation at which an aircraft’s engines will produce contrails.  Furthermore, there are a variety of atmospheric conditions, such as ambient temperature, relative humidity, concentration of dust particles and winds aloft that will affect how the trail behaves once it is produced.  For instance, contrails tend to “persist”  when produced in areas of high relative humidity and low temperatures, while they dissipate quickly in the presence of warmer, drier air.

Descending air currents found in wind shear conditions can carry the aircraft’s exhaust gases to lower elevations and warmer temperatures where the moisture will vaporize, rendering it invisible.  The portion of the contrail on the other side of the shear will remain in conditions that support its persistence.  This accounts for breaks in visible contrails, which some have theorized indicates the “spray nozzles”  have been turned off.

“Chemtrail generators”

A 1974 patent awarded to the Navy for an aircraft-mounted device designed to disperse microscopic titanium oxide particles into the air has been circulating about the web.  This is used as evidence of military involvement in the proliferation of “chemtrails.”   Again, other explanations are available.

I’ve read the patent document, and it clearly states that the device is intended to replace smoke-oil injection systems used on aircraft exhaust systems to generate a smoke trail.  Anyone who has been to an air show or seen skywriting has witnessed the use of smoke-oil systems.  In this case, it seems the device was invented to allow a towed target glider (which has no hot exhaust system with which to generate smoke) to leave a visible trail for purposes of target identification.  Since this system generates no “smoke,”  it seems they replaced the words “smoke trail”  with “contrail.”

I’ve looked into the “noxious”  nature of the chemicals referenced in the document.  DuPont R-931 is the identification number given to a highly reflective paint pigment made of titanium oxide.  DuPont lists applications for this particular pigment in both indoor and outdoor latex paints.  It seems we are all exposed to this chemical on a daily basis.  Yet none of the “chemtrail”  proponents call for a reform in the paint industry.  Nor are they warning us that the very walls of our houses contain the same chemical the government is secretly dropping on our heads.  Why?  Probably because it has none of the detrimental qualities they claim.

According to the chemical manufacturer, LabKorea (http://www.labkorea.com), “The colloidal silica is available for various applications such as fiber, sizing, diazo paper’s manufactures, cellophane film, precision casting, ceramics, glass fiber, paints, catalysts, batteries, wax, optics, elastomer, food, health care, industrial chromatography and polishing.”   Again, it would seem we are exposed to this chemical frequently.

And finally, the silica gel.  This is a drying agent used quite commonly in food packaging.  Next time you open a refrigerated pasta product, look for a packet of the stuff glued inside the packaging.  How harmful can it be?

If this device were actually in use for clandestine purposes, the “contrail”  it produced would be visible immediately aft of the aircraft.  Again, all the photos I have seen show a normal contrail becoming visible a significant distance behind the plane.

I believe this patent presents evidence of an alternative method of generating air show smoke, not government involvement in the bombardment of citizens with noxious substances.

Other metals in the air

During the Viet Nam era, fighter pilots were vulnerable to radar and infrared guided surface-to-air missiles.  To address this threat, a program known as “Wild Weasel”  was started.  It involved equipping various fighter aircraft with infrared and radar countermeasures, which included advanced air-to-ground missiles, infrared flares and radar-reactive “chaff”  delivery systems.

Chaff is the term used to describe the tiny silicate/metallic particles deployed by military aircraft for the purpose of confusing the enemy’s radar and preventing them locking onto the aircraft.    Because it’s important to use material with a low molecular weight to maximize the time the chaff remains suspended in the air, aluminum is most commonly used.  Chaff is deployed in small packages which then burst open in the plane’s wake, creating an aircraft-sized false radar signature.

What would happen if aircraft were deploying continuous streams of chaff and creating grids of the stuff, as claimed by some “chemtrail”  theory proponents?  Think about it.  Radar used by air traffic controllers would be rendered useless.  They would be unable to distinguish between real airplanes and the “ghost”  images created by the chaff.  Not a likely scenario.

What has happened to our “normal”  clouds?

This question is posed by many conspiracy theory proponents, and answered with supposed effects of “chemtrails.”   If the appearance of our skies has changed in the last decade or so, there may be a less sinister explanation.  The overall effect may be attributable to a combination of the following changing conditions.

Global warming means generally warmer air temperatures in the upper atmosphere.  Warmer air has the ability to hold more moisture in vapor form.  On days when the atmosphere in a given region and at normal flight elevations is supersaturated (a condition wherein the relative humidity is at or above 100%, but clouds have not formed due to lack of solid particles for moisture to condense with, or insufficiently low temperatures to cause water vapor to sublimate directly into ice crystals), it may take as few as one or two aircraft flying through to trigger widespread formation of cirrus clouds.  This can happen one of two ways, or as a combined effect of the two.

In addition to water vapor, jet exhaust contains carbon particles commonly referred to as “soot.”   These particles make an excellent surface for moisture to condense upon, thus creating a visible cloud that spreads horizontally in the wake of the plane.

The other effect is a byproduct of the aerodynamic forces that cause the wing to create lift.  Aircraft wings are curved more on the top surface than on the bottom.  This causes the air traveling across the top surface to speed up, reducing its density and pressure.  The air on the bottom side maintains normal, ambient pressure.  The net effect is an area of relatively high pressure on the bottom, accompanied by relatively low pressure on the top surface of the wing.  Thus, lift is produced.

The reduced air pressure above the wing is always accompanied by a momentary reduction in air temperature.  (If interested, consult the ideal gas law, PV=NrT to prove this fact.)  Under supersaturated conditions, this downward spike in temperature is sufficient to cause water vapor to sublimate into ice crystals.  The ice crystals, themselves, then become surfaces for more moisture to condense upon, creating a more and more dense cloud spreading in the wake of the plane.

Global warming, rather than “chemtrails”  as some theorize, may also be to blame for drought conditions in some areas and flooding in others.  As stated earlier, warmer air has the ability to hold more moisture than cooler air.  In the case of drought, this warmer air may be retaining moisture it would normally have dropped in the form of precipitation under our previously cooler global environment.  In the case of flooding, the opposite is happening.  When atmospheric conditions cause the formation of precipitation, the warmer, post-global-warming, air contains more moisture to release.  Thus the rainfall is heavier than it would have been under our previously cooler conditions, causing flooding.

And yet another possible explanation for increased high-altitude cloudiness: higher concentrations of particulates in the upper atmosphere for moisture to condense upon.  Every year, we put more and more automobiles on the road which produce more and more particulate emissions.  Increases in air travel have the same effect.  Volcanic activity is on the rise, as is the destruction and burning of rainforests.  Drought ridden areas are experiencing unprecedented forest fire activity.  One would have to surmise that the concentrations of particulates in the atmosphere are higher now than they were a decade ago.  More particulates = more condensation points for moisture = increased cloudiness.

Could a mass psychological effect be in play?

Blaming the government for our every woe seems to be in vogue at the moment.  I’m not saying it isn’t warranted in many situations.  (Personally, I don’t agree with invading Iraq to protect our oil-hungry lifestyle, and I think the Federal Reserve is unconstitutional.  But, I digress.)  However, this practice has become a catch-all drawer for our societal problems.

As the greatest consumers on the face of the earth, and with much of our wealth coming at the expense of the environment, I don’t see how Americans could not experience a certain amount of guilt – at a subconscious level, at least.  We see our little planet changing before our eyes, and must know we carry a great deal of the blame.  But, that’s a hard thing to own.  So we look for a scapegoat – the government.

We look at the sky, and it looks different.  In our hearts, we know why.  But, we can’t accept our own role.  The government must be to blame.  They are bombarding their own people with noxious substances.  Why?  To cull the population?  (But, what will happen to their economic machine if they reduce the number of consumers?)  To test the effects of biological agents?  (Don’t they have laboratory animals for that?  And, think of the cost to the government of a class action lawsuit.)  Weather control experiments?  (Maybe.  It’s a fact that cloud seeding operations are conducted to induce precipitation.  But that’s a far cry from manipulating the weather on a global level.  And last time I checked, rain wasn’t known to be particularly harmful to humans.)

Global warming is happening.  Weather patterns are changing.  Through scientific evidence, the reasons are becoming clearer.  The answer is also clear – we must look to clean, renewable energy sources.  We can’t burn petroleum forever.  We can no longer support the destruction of rainforests for cheap lumber and beef.  The day will come when we must change our habits.

With change comes uncertainty, and that scares us to death.  We want the “good life”  we’ve become accustomed to.  We don’t want to change.  We’re afraid of economic changes that will surely accompany a change in the very base of our energy system – petroleum.  And we certainly don’t want to face the possibility of paying more for the resources we need to live.  Rather than confronting to our problems and initiating the changes we know must come, we support environmentally destructive business as usual at an ever increasing rate.

What should we really be concerned about?

In truth, the exhaust gases and contrails produced by aircraft do have an effect on our environment, but probably not because they contain the clandestine substances “chemtrail”  proponents believe.  The chemicals that exist in contrails are the same ones produced by our automobiles – hydrocarbons, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and various oxides of nitrogen.  All of these substances are known to have an effect on air quality and chemistry.  The scary thing is that aircraft emit these chemicals in large quantities miles up in the stratosphere.

There are solutions.  Reducing these chemical emissions would call for major changes in the way the airline industry operates their aircraft.  One solution would be to retrofit airliners to run on liquid hydrogen.  Doing so would eliminate the introduction of hydrocarbons, CO and CO ² into our upper atmosphere.  Unfortunately, the nitrous oxide problem would remain.

In addition, the cost of this conversion would be substantial.  That cost would ultimately be passed on to consumers through elevated ticket prices.  So much for cheap travel.  There would also be the problem of educating travelers.  People hear “hydrogen,”  and immediately think they would be flying around in H-bombs or Hindenburgs.  Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Are consumers ready and willing to accept these changes?  I would guess not.  We’re talking about change, and nobody wants that.  We might have to give up a little piece of the good life.

Are “chemtrails”  real?

It’s entirely possible.  In concluding this lengthy dissertation, I have to admit I can’t disprove their existence.  My point is simply this: proponents of the “chemtrail”  theory have failed to produce a “smoking gun.”   There are logical and believable explanations for all the “evidence”  I have seen.  No truly damning evidence seems to exist – or if it does, it’s lost in a sea of inconclusive theory, conjecture and photos of normal contrails and meteorological events. 

-Ian Wickson]





Now this is just a different view. I myself have a hard time in believing that chemtrails are real, having done propulsion chemistry and atmospheric classes at uni for my degree. But I am still open, and think it is good to have each view rather than get caught up in the 'group think' condition.

I do know that it is very very difficult to predict the weather due to all the variables that exist. It requires high level maths, that is never entirely accurate, and in general, forecasts are only semi-accurate about 4 days in advance, let alone weeks or months. Because of these variables, in order for contrails to exist, there have to be specific conditions. Therefore as suggested above, the photos I have seen of supposed chemtrails are just nature at work.

Vincit omnia Veritas: Truth conquers all.

Re: The Chemtrail Debate

This page shows a chart called 'The Appleman Chart' for predicting the existence of contrails.....

As can be seen, it depends on temperature, atmospheric pressure, relative humidity, and the altitude the aircraft is flying at. Even then, there is a larger section for 'Maybe Contrails' shown in white compared to 'definitely contrails' shown in blue.

http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/GLOBE/Coun … ews_p7.pdf

Vincit omnia Veritas: Truth conquers all.

Re: The Chemtrail Debate

I personally don't care whether "chemtrails" exist or not, although I tend to believe they do.

Either way, however, they are ugly, disgusting and repulsive.  They are cluttering otherwise beautiful skies and in some cases hiding the sky altogether after they spread.  It is unfortunate that we are being robbed of the beauty of an open blue sky and a beautiful sun.

I mourn for the children of tomorrow, if we continue in our pestilent ways.

This is no time for the righteous
Only the wicked survive
Bake up a batch of the Yellow Cake
Bake up a batch of the lies
- - - - -[ Yellow Cake - Ministry - Rio Grande Blood (2006)

Re: The Chemtrail Debate

matt_d82 wrote:

Now this is just a different view. I myself have a hard time in believing that chemtrails are real, having done propulsion chemistry and atmospheric classes at uni for my degree. But I am still open, and think it is good to have each view rather than get caught up in the 'group think' condition.

Like you I have a hard time believing that chemtrails are real.  I have read as much as I can stand on the issue and have concluded there is no solid/concrete evidence on the subject.  On the other hand, I have no animosity in reviewing new material that may prove otherwise.  I keep my mind open and resist the idea of getting caught up on group thinking as you well put it in your discussion.  So, on this issue my conclusion is "Chemtrails may not be real" until new data comes up.  Anyone out there?

Re: The Chemtrail Debate

whywhywhy wrote:

Like you I have a hard time believing that chemtrails are real.  I have read as much as I can stand on the issue and have concluded there is no solid/concrete evidence on the subject.  On the other hand, I have no animosity in reviewing new material that may prove otherwise.  I keep my mind open and resist the idea of getting caught up on group thinking as you well put it in your discussion.  So, on this issue my conclusion is "Chemtrails may not be real" until new data comes up.  Anyone out there?

Well, let me ask you this (for clarification)  Are you saying that you don't believe that chemtrails exist, or that you don't believe that they have some neferious purpose?    'Cause I can totally understand someone being doubtful about chemtrails' possible sinister purposes...but to say that they don't exist...well, all I have to say to that is just look up!  big_smile

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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Re: The Chemtrail Debate

lyra wrote:

Well, let me ask you this (for clarification)  Are you saying that you don't believe that chemtrails exist, or that you don't believe that they have some neferious purpose?    'Cause I can totally understand someone being doubtful about chemtrails' possible sinister purposes...but to say that they don't exist...well, all I have to say to that is just look up!  big_smile

Sorry........I was not very clear about my statement on chemtrail.  No, I cannot jump on the wagon concerning the possible sinister purposes of chemtrails.  But, as I said "show me some real scientific data" and I will re-evaluate my position.   You would think that by now (after all the talk in the internet about chemtrails) someone has seen something.  Maybe the loading of the chemical canisters (if any) in the plane.  Maybe the nozzle assembly utilized for the spraying.  Planes need repair or preventive maintenance.....You would think that a mechanic have seen some weird canisters and/or pieces of equipment inside the plane that do not seem to serve any purpose.  But if he does see this equipment, would he say anything to his superiors?  Would he drop an anonimous e-mail or note to someone informing them of the anomally?  I do not know.   Maybe Don Croft can hire a private detective and have him look into this matter.  Would he?  Who knows..............  At this time I am on the wait and see mode but I am not holding my breath.

Re: The Chemtrail Debate

whywhywhy wrote:

would think that by now (after all the talk in the internet about chemtrails) someone has seen something.  Maybe the loading of the chemical canisters (if any) in the plane.  Maybe the nozzle assembly utilized for the spraying.  Planes need repair or preventive maintenance.....You would think that a mechanic have seen some weird canisters and/or pieces of equipment inside the plane that do not seem to serve any purpose.  But if he does see this equipment, would he say anything to his superiors?  Would he drop an anonimous e-mail or note to someone informing them of the anomally?  I do not know.   Maybe Don Croft can hire a private detective and have him look into this matter.  Would he?  Who knows..............  At this time I am on the wait and see mode but I am not holding my breath.

That's all true....I'd love to see some more evidence myself, and wonder why it's not happening.  Maybe things aren't what they seem to be in regards to these chemtrail planes....?  Maybe it's not an entirely "3rd density operation."  wink   Just a thought.   Someone somewhere has ensured that we aren't getting this information, and they've done a pretty good job of it.  It seems to be a much bigger operation than a standard 3D gig. 

Now, what can't be refuted of course is that the trails exist.   They didn't used to clutter the skies...but they do now.   We have a very different sky and atmosphere now then we did as kids.  I'm only 30, but even when I was a kid growing up in Massaschusetts and Connecticut, things were different.   At best, all I ever saw in the skies growing up were "contrails", which are natural vapor emisssions that passenger jetliners give off, and which evaporate within minutes.   The key phrase here being "evaporate within minutes." 

Chemtrails are entirely different matter altogether.  They're literally being laid across the sky by these "super planes" that are absolutely just hauling ass;  these planes are FAST.  Often times the trails form patterns such as grids, sometimes there are several DOZEN trails covering a patch of sky at one time;   They don't immediately evaporate like contrails, they linger......and disperse, creating an oily, icky looking cloud cover that ruins a beautiful clear blue sky, turning it into this dreary, whitish mess.

This is real, it's happening, we've all seen them, and some of us have photos, myself included.    No, we don't have up close pics of planes, tanks, nozzles, etc., but what can we infer from the fact that chemtrails didn't used to exist, but now they do?   Something has changed.   What is going on?   Why do they now exist?   Maybe it's bad to make assumptions about chemtrails having a neferious purpose, but regardless, we must take notice of what's happening here.    Something has changed, people can't dispute this.   And sure, it might be bad to jump to conclusions, but I think it's better than not talking about it all I suppose....

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

8 (edited by whywhywhy 2005-10-05 05:42:19)

Re: The Chemtrail Debate

lyra wrote:

They're literally being laid across the sky by these "super planes" that are absolutely just hauling ass;  these planes are FAST.

This is a very interesting statement.  These faster planes are exhausting gases at a much higher velocity than say planes in 1960.  The chemical composition of the jet fuel is very similar to that of 1960 (Crude oil distillation has not changed much in the last 30-40 years) but the additives are much different.  I automated the entire truck loading Facility of one the XXXXXXXX (Sorry took out the name of my customer) Facilities in Alabama and the Jet fuel loading lane injects three different additives into the fuel line before is loaded in the truck.  One of these additives is a high altitude de-icer (keeps jet fuel liquid at high altitudes).  Is  it possible that the planes emmisions at a higher rate are causing some sort of ionization in the atmosphere? tongue or, is possible that the additives are being combusted or are reacting with the combustion gases producing the chemtrail (combustion products and some undesirable by products).  Most of the additives I know are hydrocarbons but I do not know how much lead, chlorine, etc... is bonded (if any) to the C-H bond (carbon-hydrogen).  A simple test would be collecting exhaust gases in a sample bag, and test it in a gas chromatograph (GC).  This could be done very  easily at the airport.  The problem here is that one must have an idea on what to look for since that determines the type GC column to be utilized in the test.  Maybe if I get some Material Safety Data Sheets on these additives we can determine the molecular composition.  With that information you can run a simulation of the combustion process as it occurs in the plane engines and maybe come up with some predictions as to what kind of by-products are being generated.  Just some food for thought...........

Maybe the additves are not combusted at all but are atomized to very small droplets which will be suspended in the atmosphere until a good rain comes along and knocks them down.

Re: The Chemtrail Debate

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap041013.html

Be the Wave

10 (edited by chinesejycc 2005-10-04 16:41:06)

Re: The Chemtrail Debate

This is all very interesting, I was never a big supporter of the chemtrail conspiracy, and it seems that matt has discredited it with scientific accuracy, well to some degree. From what I understand real chemtrails would become invisible to the eye within seconds, and contrails linger for a while, so we have yet to see actual photos of actual chemtrails, all the while we have mistaken contrails for chemtrails.

[edit] I am looking at what Mriver has just posted, and so far it makes sense, contrails affect the global climate, and if competent mathematicians and astronomers were to work together, perhaps they could affect the climate to however they wanted it to be.

Re: The Chemtrail Debate

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2001/hr2977.html

Er should have quoted first but read the underlined and bold 1) The term `space' means all space extending upward from an altitude greater than 60 kilometers above the surface of the earth and any celestial body in such space.

(2)(A) The terms `weapon' and `weapons system' mean a device capable of any of the following:

(i) Damaging or destroying an object (whether in outer space, in the atmosphere, or on earth) by--

(I) firing one or more projectiles to collide with that object;

(II) detonating one or more explosive devices in close proximity to that object;

(III) directing a source of energy (including molecular or atomic energy, subatomic particle beams, electromagnetic radiation, plasma, or extremely low frequency (ELF) or ultra low frequency (ULF) energy radiation) against that object; or

(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--

(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;

(ii) chemtrails;

(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;

(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;

(v) laser weapons systems;

(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and

(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons

I would also like to point out the mentioning of 'extraterrestrial weapons'
And by the way 'Chemtrails' if you have looked up in the sky lately and see what looks like a cloud trail behind a plane those are 'chemtrails'

12 (edited by whywhywhy 2005-10-19 11:10:19)

Re: The Chemtrail Debate

whywhywhy wrote:

You would think that by now (after all the talk in the internet about chemtrails) someone has seen something.  Maybe the loading of the chemical canisters (if any) in the plane.  Maybe the nozzle assembly utilized for the spraying.  Planes need repair or preventive maintenance.....You would think that a mechanic have seen some weird canisters and/or pieces of equipment inside the plane that do not seem to serve any purpose.  But if he does see this equipment, would he say anything to his superiors?  Would he drop an anonimous e-mail or note to someone informing them of the anomally?  I do not know.

Lo and behold!

I finally found somebody that has seen something that do not look right inside the plane.  This message has been posted in the internet since 2000.  I do not know the veracity of the story but perhaps this will put things in perspective for those that did not want to believe the conspiracy theory (Me included).   Please read it!

http://www.anomalous-images.com/news/news590.html

Re: The Chemtrail Debate

As far fetched as it may sound, I would be more inclined to believe that alternate theory, or at least something relating to that general idea - that it has something to do with shielding the Earth from an increase in cosmic rays. 

Plus it is in my interests to defend an industry that I love. Like the guy mentions, the air we are breathing is the same air that everyone else breaths in.

It would be more logical to consider the chemicals that we breath in everyday from emissions given off by cars, trucks, etc. The particles in those are the ones that are more likely to be detrimental to our health in general.

Vincit omnia Veritas: Truth conquers all.

Re: The Chemtrail Debate

matt_d82 wrote:

As far fetched as it may sound, I would be more inclined to believe that alternate theory, or at least something relating to that general idea - that it has something to do with shielding the Earth from an increase in cosmic rays. 

Plus it is in my interests to defend an industry that I love. Like the guy mentions, the air we are breathing is the same air that everyone else breaths in.

It would be more logical to consider the chemicals that we breath in everyday from emissions given off by cars, trucks, etc. The particles in those are the ones that are more likely to be detrimental to our health in general.

I understand your point completely.  I was very hesitant to believe there was any kind of conspiracy behind these "trails" in the sky but somehow there is something to it.................. I do not know if it is bad or good but it appears that something other than combustions fumes/gases are being sprayed by some airplanes as they fly by.  As you stated in your post all of us breathe that very same air so what is the point of spraying to do evil.................But, do the people flying/operating these planes know the intention?  I do not know.  I hate when I go in circles and do not have an answer..............

15 (edited by Xenopope 2005-10-23 07:00:58)

Re: The Chemtrail Debate

whywhywhy wrote:

But, as I said "show me some real scientific data" and I will re-evaluate my position.   You would think that by now (after all the talk in the internet about chemtrails) someone has seen something.

Hi why! Evidence IS out there. Can be found on some of the videos floating around about this. We have Chamtrails - Clouds of Death by Heaven Can Wait Productions and it goes into detail about the 'designer pathogen soup' found raining from our skies. Aerosol Crimes the video also goes into detail about this widespread campaign. These vids are 70 or 202Mb and 35Mb respectively.

I am as is Void.