16 Reply by tenetnosce (edited by tenetnosce 2005-10-01 11:34:21)

  • From: The Singularity
  • Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: Dare I say. . . relationship?

dreamosis wrote:

There is nothing stopping you from loving, except yourself, except the expectation of a reward.

jen wrote:

I've known men who were interested in an intimate relationship with me and when I made it clear that was not what I wanted, they just gave up.

You both have very valuable things to say, and thanks for the responses.

I would like to be a little clearer about one thing.  This is not a case of unrequited love. . . where I've been fawning after this person for months and months, and she just won't love me back.  I would be much to embarrassed with myself to openly post about something like that!

Here we are talking about a real love just the way you describe it; completely open and without expectation of return.  Honestly, the only agreement we had was that we would only be physically intimate with each other.

Let me try to give the quick story.

A couple of weeks ago. . . right before the full moon (surprise surprise)  I experienced what I would consider to be an all out assault by negative forces via the matrix.  It was an attack on our relationship, and I was very specifically targeted.  All the strings were being pulled and every card was being played to get me to give into a particular fear that I have around relationships.  All in all I thought I did a very good job of handling the situation.  I rode through the waves of emotion, saw through the manipulation, and held my ground.  I stayed in communication with my significant other, and was very clear that though I was feeling like my fear was coming true, I knew it was actually the furthest thing from the truth of what was actually going on in the relationship.  I must say I am actually quite proud of myself and the way I handled the situation.

Well guess what happened next?  Not more than three days later, the attack was transferred to her.  Same tactics.  Different result.  The main trigger was a passing comment somebody made to her at school.  One of those manipulated synchronicities.  Cunningly crafted to incite her primary fear about relationships.  The only difference is that she did not see it coming, and doesn't really have all the tools to deal with it.   She freaked out.  I didn't really hear from her for a couple of days.  Then she pops up with this letter and takes me on a break-up walk telling me how this isn't the right time for her to be in a relationship, she really needs to be alone, she's not ready for this kind of love.  Fear. Fear. Fear.  Basically one line after another about how she needs to give up the love we have so she can be focused on various matrix activities.  Well I did my best to reassure her that her fears weren't coming true and I tried to communicate that I thought she was being manipulated.  I told her that she absolutely does not have to give up love to do anything in life. 

Well she's just not hearing it.  And every attempt I've made since then to talk to her about it is met with more fear-based circular reasoning.  She's totally not herself, and she seems to be spiraling downward, and I guess my frustration is that there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it.

Yes I can give her space and send her my love and do everything I can to keep myself in balance and hope and pray that she will come around, and if not know that I will find somebody else.

But I can't help but feel like with every day that passes she is falling further and further away from herself.  Further into the matrix.

This isn't the first time this has happened in my life, but it is the first time I have a pretty firm understanding of what is going on.  And I'll be damned if I'm going to stand by and have a love n' light party while somebody I truly and deeply love is being hurt and manipulated.

I feel like Trinity in the Matrix Reloaded. . . I will not stand here and do nothing.  I will not wait here to watch her die. . .  in five minutes I'll tear that whole goddam building down. . .

It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.
  • From: Zion
  • Registered: 2004-09-28

Re: Dare I say. . . relationship?

tenetnosce wrote:

But I can't help but feel like with every day that passes she is falling further and further away from herself.  Further into the matrix.

But, that has to be her choice, not yours. Trying to make decisions for other people, based solely on what *you* think is best for them, is very dangerous territory indeed. The fact of the matter is, you don't know what's best for her. The fact that one comment that someone made to her can shake her life up so badly obviously indicates that there are some major issues in her life that she still needs to deal with.

tenetnosce wrote:

This isn't the first time this has happened in my life, but it is the first time I have a pretty firm understanding of what is going on.  And I'll be damned if I'm going to stand by and have a love n' light party while somebody I truly and deeply love is being hurt and manipulated.

Well, if you love her then you have to accept her decisions, and accept that her life is her responsibility. It's hard, I know. But it isn't your love that is getting in the way, it's your fear.

tenetnosce wrote:

I feel like Trinity in the Matrix Reloaded. . . I will not stand here and do nothing.  I will not wait here to watch her die. . .  in five minutes I'll tear that whole goddam building down. . .

Well, if you are going to use that analogy then bear in mind that Trinity sacrified her own life in the process. You may tear that goddamn building down to the ground, but in the process of doing so you may end up lying beneath it's ruins.

"Fear is the great barrier to human growth. Unknowns create fears. When these Unknowns become Knowns the fears diminish and disappear, and we are able to cope with whatever confronts us." - Robert A. Monroe
  • From: The Singularity
  • Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: Dare I say. . . relationship?

Neomatrix wrote:

Trying to make decisions for other people, based solely on what *you* think is best for them, is very dangerous territory indeed. The fact of the matter is, you don't know what's best for her. The fact that one comment that someone made to her can shake her life up so badly obviously indicates that there are some major issues in her life that she still needs to deal with.

You, sir, are entirely correct.

So let's see if we can turn this thread around and focus on the positive.  Any success stories?  Tools to prevent this type of thing from happening again?  General insights?

It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.
  • Registered: 2004-04-09

Re: Dare I say. . . relationship?

tenetnosce wrote:

So let's see if we can turn this thread around and focus on the positive.  Any success stories?  Tools to prevent this type of thing from happening again?  General insights?

To prevent what from happening again? Is this your fear or hangup? That a certain "something" could happen?
I was in a relationship with this girl who I believed to be my soul mate. Suffice it to say, this was over a decade ago within linear events and we are no longer in a physical relationship together. The relationship lasted not even a year, but had intensity as it was during a period of tremendous experiences for me. I was emotionally very young and insecure about myself and life as a whole. As a result transferred a great deal of those feelings into the relationship creating a fears, of course. Feeling alone even when in a crowded room can do that. At any rate, Janet and I lived with my friend Charley and his girlfriend, now his wife, and one other roomate. One day during a particularly emotionally challenging moment (insecurity about my relationship) Charley was sensing what I was feeling and looked at me with a big Buddha grin and said,"I don't care if she (his girlfriend) ever leaves me!" That was a great insight for me.
Does that say anything for you? Maybe find the thing missing in you that might be missing in a relationship. Or maybe what you needed to learn with her was learned and you won't need to repeat in the next relationship! It might be that simple. That maybe your tool?!

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant

20 Reply by tenetnosce (edited by tenetnosce 2005-10-01 23:01:37)

  • From: The Singularity
  • Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: Dare I say. . . relationship?

thook wrote:

To prevent what from happening again? Is this your fear or hangup? That a certain "something" could happen?

To prevent the manipulations from happening again.  I generally don't like giving more attention than necessary to the "dark forces" but I feel like this is a pretty safe place for talking about this stuff.

There are too many strange things that go on when I'm in relationships it seems.  Weird "coincidences", strange dreams, visitations by unsavory entities.   Feeling like we are being watched when we are supposedly alone.  And it doesn't just happen for me, but for my partner as well. 

It seems that things are going well.  I'm with somebody compatible. . really enjoying myself.  And then BOOM!  The rug gets pulled out from under me.

And I'm not talking about being in some fantasyland of love where the relationship really sucks but I keep telling myself that it is great, or where we just grow apart and I am desperately trying to cling to something that is no longer there.

I'm actually a quite well adapted person.  Sure I have some hangups and fears and insecurities, but I'm very aware of where they lie.  When they come up for me I deal with them.  I'm not afraid of being alone.  I love myself (for the most part).  I know my value as a human being. 

I identify a great deal with lyra's earlier post about negative manipulations, and I have been to the "Alien Love Bite" website some time ago.  I gotta say a lot that I read there made quite a bit of sense to me. 

Anyway if there is negative manipulation going on. . how can I stop that from happening again? Has anybody else with similar experiences found a solution?   That's my question.

It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.
  • Registered: 2004-04-09

Re: Dare I say. . . relationship?

Thanks for clarifying for me.
Being aware of it is the first part for sure. Ever heard the expression there is no solution at the level of the problem? You have to remove yourself from such a playing field where these kind of manipulations occur. With that said, it seems common that manipulations can occur in relationships where there is as much potential as what seems to have been in your case whether you are an abductee or not. It seems to me that becoming so clear in your desires/intentions for a relationship is enough to ward off manipulations where two people with such potential can be seperated even. I think the key is that both parties are aware of the potential for manipulations and "willing" to deal with them. The solution is in your core of awareness/knowledge. As an electrician friend of mine told me about the power window in my vehicle, the window will not work until all circuits are satisfied. Meaning the electricity sympathetically flows through all circuits. There is power to the system. If there is a break in the circuit somewhere, the computer in the system won't allow the window to operate. Forgive the analogy, but I thought it fit the energetic principle.
I have been in the same situation, per se, but under different circumstances which are to private to go into. As a result, I have grown and my wife has grown. And we are still together, to boot! Anytime manipulations attempt to come into play, just saying "no, thanks!" is truly enough. Unless you waver!;)

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant

22 Reply by tenetnosce (edited by tenetnosce 2005-10-02 11:01:38)

  • From: The Singularity
  • Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: Dare I say. . . relationship?

thook wrote:

I think the key is that both parties are aware of the potential for manipulations and "willing" to deal with them. The solution is in your core of awareness/knowledge.

Know what you mean.  I think part of the problem was that the person I was with doesn't really have enough awareness/knowledge to deal with situations like that.  She could sense when something wasn't right. . but I didn't want to freak her out by spilling all the beans.  It's taken me several years to become aware of these kinds of these things, much less handle them.  I guess that's part of the picture I need to be very clear about in the future.  It just seems like there are so few people out there that don't think this kind of stuff is completely whacked out. . and even fewer that are women.  (No offense to any ladies on here, you are the exception) wink

It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.
  • Registered: 2004-04-09

Re: Dare I say. . . relationship?

tenetnosce wrote:
thook wrote:

I think the key is that both parties are aware of the potential for manipulations and "willing" to deal with them. The solution is in your core of awareness/knowledge.

Know what you mean.  I think part of the problem was that the person I was with doesn't really have enough awareness/knowledge to deal with situations like that.  She could sense when something wasn't right. . but I didn't want to freak her out by spilling all the beans.  It's taken me several years to become aware of these kinds of these things, much less handle them.  I guess that's part of the picture I need to be very clear about in the future.  It just seems like there are so few people out there that don't think this kind of stuff is completely whacked out. . and even fewer that are women.  (No offense to any ladies on here, you are the exception) wink

Much of the issue at hand may also be due to what any given person may identify with as their own feelings or desires in relation to true manipulation. Certainly comes down to choice and being aware of what one is actually choosing given the options presented at any given moment. Of course when one does identify with a particular desire/option it does become theirs and that is freewill. Choice. I know it has been said here before, but part of exploration does seem to be choosing something to clarify what you don't want. Which brings up in my mind, what does one truly desire? What are we really looking for? What do we really want to be devoted to? Reflections.........
I wish that we really do find what we are really looking for and are able to recognise it and accept when we do. It would makes things so much easier, it seems.
Anyways, good luck to you and all.

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant
  • Registered: 2004-04-09

Re: Dare I say. . . relationship?

tenetnosce wrote:
thook wrote:

To prevent what from happening again? Is this your fear or hangup? That a certain "something" could happen?

To prevent the manipulations from happening again.  I generally don't like giving more attention than necessary to the "dark forces" but I feel like this is a pretty safe place for talking about this stuff.

Anyway if there is negative manipulation going on. . how can I stop that from happening again? Has anybody else with similar experiences found a solution?   That's my question.

Something that occurred to me after finishing my last post and rereading your post quoted here, and what has been shared with me in dealing with any situation I have found myself in, is that, again, there is no solution at the level of the problem. To clarify what I mean is that where you put your attention is where you will find yourself. Giving your attention to dealing with manipulations puts you in that playing field where you will always to one degree or another be dealing with manipulations. It is a mode of thinking, a thought loop. "I must watch for these manipulations!" You have granted the permission for manipulations to exist for you. Do you follow? Maybe this sounds like jibber-jabber. It does seem to be true. One word comes to me as I write this. Solidarity.
Just a thought!;)

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant

25 Reply by Jen

  • Jen
  • Guest

Re: Dare I say. . . relationship?

thook wrote:

Something that occurred to me after finishing my last post and rereading your post quoted here, and what has been shared with me in dealing with any situation I have found myself in, is that, again, there is no solution at the level of the problem. To clarify what I mean is that where you put your attention is where you will find yourself. Giving your attention to dealing with manipulations puts you in that playing field where you will always to one degree or another be dealing with manipulations. It is a mode of thinking, a thought loop. "I must watch for these manipulations!" You have granted the permission for manipulations to exist for you. Do you follow? Maybe this sounds like jibber-jabber. It does seem to be true. One word comes to me as I write this. Solidarity.
Just a thought!;)

Yes, yes, yes!!!  This is something I've been giving a lot of thought to lately, and I initiated a thread about it here: http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=2103

Excerpt:

Q: Bashar, my understanding is that some of those space beings, such as
those connected to the dark side or Orion, are hostile to Earth and Earthlings.

Bashar: We will discuss this idea with you if you will first understand that the
idea of any consciousness which could be said to be negatively oriented can
only form connections with individuals who believe that those supposedly
negative beings have the power to force connections of that nature upon
them. In other words, only your fear and concern that they may have that type
of power will actually give them the power necessary to form a link with
anyone in your civilization.

26 Reply by thook (edited by thook 2005-10-02 20:17:39)

  • Registered: 2004-04-09

Re: Dare I say. . . relationship?

Yah mon! I have read alot of Bashar and have on hand a hundred or so tapes of his early channellings. My wife and I steered away from that information when we considered that fact the Essassanni are the future hybrids of humans and the greys. Spooked us a bit and made us reconsider accepting any of the information contained in those channelings as a whole knowing that channelings can be distorted and the greys aren't necessarily our friends. Aside from that, there was alot positive insights we gleened from the materials. I have seen and read your posts relating to Bashar, just never commented. Have you thought about this or are you even aware of it? I realize this question does not directly relate to the topic in this thread, but I am interested in your take on this matter if you have one. Should this be in another thread, a new one perhaps?

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant

27 Reply by tenetnosce (edited by tenetnosce 2005-10-02 21:43:47)

  • From: The Singularity
  • Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: Dare I say. . . relationship?

thook wrote:

Something that occurred to me after finishing my last post and rereading your post quoted here, and what has been shared with me in dealing with any situation I have found myself in, is that, again, there is no solution at the level of the problem. To clarify what I mean is that where you put your attention is where you will find yourself. Giving your attention to dealing with manipulations puts you in that playing field where you will always to one degree or another be dealing with manipulations.

No I definitely hear ya!  That's why I said I don't like to give much attention to it. . . fighting the manipulation only strengthens it.  But yet for all my attempts to ignore it, or simply notice it and move on, or laugh at it, I still seem to be paying some pretty heavy prices.

I just want it to end.  Contracts canceled.  I really don't care who "they" are or what "they" want.  I just want to live -my- life and love freely,  without reservation or concern that the person I love is going to become a target of attack.  I feel like I've been playing this child's game of light vs. dark, us vs. them,  and I don't really care to play anymore.  The game no longer interests me. 

You mention solidarity. . . speak more on that.  Because to me solidarity means "alone", and I don't want to be alone.  Not because the idea scares me. . it used to.  Because I simply don't prefer being alone and I really don't feel that it serves me any longer.  For as far as I've come, I'm still have this human body.  And it wants to be adored and appreciated.  Physically.  I want somebody to be there and hold me when I am facing my fears or insecurities and say "Matt, I love you, and we will get through this.  Together.  I'm here for you."

And why shouldn't I?  Is it so wrong to want that?  I used to think that I needed to overcome that desire.  That is was spiritually infantile.  Well maybe it is.  Maybe the mistake is in the inane belief that I am anything other than a spiritual infant.  Why else would I have this body? 

And if that's the case then it's time for me to grow up.  But a baby doesn't grow up by abandoning it out in the forest to fend for itself and be eaten by the wolves.  It grows up by being loved and nurtured and cared for.  It grows up by first learning how to receive love, and then how to give love.

As for me, I feel like an abused child who wakes up every morning feeling like the love that I have been given could be taken away at any instant, without warning, and without reason.  And what is worse, I feel like "someone, somewhere" thinks this is funny, or that it is necessary so they can get their loosh for the day.

I've certainly had my own share of idiocy in relationships.  I've been insensitive, uncaring, and detached.  I've been clingy, demanding, and overbearing.  I've been a general all-around ass.  But I'm done with that now.

My purpose with this whole thread is not to have a pity-party by any means.  My purpose is to connect with others who may feel that they have to be "alone", that it is part of their path, that it is somehow necessary.  I'm here to say that it's not necessary, and never was. 

I'm here to declare that the time of loneliness has ended, and it is now the time of togetherness.

Who's with me?

It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.
  • Registered: 2004-04-09

Re: Dare I say. . . relationship?

Read your post, brother. I understand. But I will have to reply tommorrow. It be late, mon!

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant

29 Reply by thook (edited by thook 2005-10-03 09:25:56)

  • Registered: 2004-04-09

Re: Dare I say. . . relationship?

solidarity: unity (as of a group or class) that produces or is based on community of interests, objectives, and standards 

solidarity: a union of interests or purposes or sympathies among members of a group

solitary: Existing, living, or going without others; alone: a solitary traveler. See synonyms at alone.
Happening, done, or made alone: a solitary evening; solitary pursuits such as reading and sewing.
Remote from civilization; secluded: a solitary retreat.
Having no companions; lonesome or lonely.

I am with you. And this does not smack of pity party to me. Nothing wrong with desiring a partner or just desiring to have company in the midst of trying times. I think it is good to talk about this in a conscious enviroment where the ideas about relationship extend beyond convention/social parameters. I am fortunate that I have someone to be with in that manner. The interesting thing is I did not make any specific request per se for such a relationship. Just a general feel for the kind of relationship I was looking for. And, lo, we fell into each others laps. I don't say this to gloat or irritate you in anyway. Just to let it be known it can happen, it does happen, and will happen and maybe in a way you least expect it to come. Don't get me wrong, all was not cut and dried and there were many times for reviewing intentions, but it does only work when both parties are consciouness of what is going on in front of them and aware of the potentials (pos. and neg.) in such a dynamic. All of the neg. stuff does suck while it is happening. You think,"Damn, I just want to have a good time with this person and with no intrusion by nefarious forces that seem to conspire against my growth and happiness." You are right. We do not have to be alone in this, for that is an illusion. The time for this illusion is ending. One only has to look at what is happening in the world to see this. I mean this on many levels. It is time for us all to grow up. But, as I have the hardest time understanding and implementing, growth happens naturally. The growth of an acorn is one the most cliche analogies, but it is still true. So, now you see that it is time and you've made the intention known to the Universe you are ready for it. Sit back and watch and be ready to make mistakes (if you can call it as such) and let go of expectations when and if you can. There is room for everything. Especially togetherness! Let it be know I still feel the way you feel at times. Maybe even alot. (Another you, maybe? big_smile) But, as my wife, whose views and insights I respect a great deal ( because they seem to usually be true;) ) says from time to time, it gets easier. And how can it not once you have studied something enough?

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant
  • T-Ren
  • T-Ren
  • work in progress
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  • From: Earth Lab
  • Registered: 2004-11-17

Re: Dare I say. . . relationship?

Like the post  Thook.

There is a thread on 'soul mates' that gets into some of this too.

I didn't "find" my wife until I was willing to be by myself and not pursue time wasters. And even then it wasn't easy, I befriended her and waited through 3 boyfriends and a decision that I could be happy for her even if she married another.

Peace,
Teddy

"It means the Matrix can't tell you who you are" - Trinity