Re: Mind Controlled Celebrities

Having a bit of experience with Scientology myself when I first set on the path, my experience was that it only validated one aspect of our nature, the masculine and specifically the mind, as useful or relevant to growth and healing, or rather "success" in life. Any and every other resource within the self, besides the controlled mind, was required to meet the controlled mental standards set forth by L. Ron Hubbard or they were considered ... well, anything but relevant or valid, we'll say. (Instantly taps in to the low self-esteem/worth issues of most human beings looking for a way to feel better about themselves)

This in itself subjugates all followers to one man's mental ideations. If they refrain from joining officially and simply follow the book, perhaps these things are not quite the issue they were by setting foot in their facility, as I did.

The feminine aspect, i.e. feelings, intuition, "spirit", instinct, receptivity without mental censor as well as awareness without necessary, rigorous mental censor and/or mentally structured measure... was relegated to a "useless, trouble-producing, monster-like chaotic influence of a negative nature" that should be eliminated if at all possible, controlled by all means, and "used" for the purposes of serving the mind's mastery, always. Some people agree with this. wink I did not. big_smile There was a lot of implied shame at being anything but one of them.

There was also a required bunch of events before I would be considered worthy (just how it was presented) for their hierarchical internal structure. I had the opportunity to become an auditor myself, woohoo, or there was another branch of growth I might qualify for, if I recall, though it all got too complicated and "rule-ridden" for me too quickly, so that I felt caged and ready to leave fairly quickly.

BUT, since I entered their facility, there was some pressure for me to give over money right at the beginning of this interview, or I would not be allowed to enjoy the benefits of their program... all in all, I was young and naive, and it was exploited from moment-one. Before knowing anything about them, a monetary gift is required, essentially locking the less-aware into obligatory servitude through giving power away blindly. I complied in order to learn about them. I'm here to tell about it so it was ok, but barely, really. If I had one less iota of wherewithal, I might have been sucked in permanently.

The events required for my potential worthiness entailed watching films of testimonials, as well as proving that I had the mental capacity to read and comprehend the words I read - and here was a most bizarre scenario, btw.

FIRST... read an excerpt from the book. THEN... (there were others being indoctrinated too, though I was zeroed in on for reasons I wasn't, and am still not, aware of) all stand in a circle in a small room, and a medicine ball was thrown at me while someone yelled a word at me which I was required to define. If I could not, exactly as it was defined in the "official dictionary" (which I didn't own and never ran across, mind you, before that day), I was pummeled with this ball by all in the circle, one after the other, and then had to return to the "official dictionary" and memorize the definition, then return to "the game", until I passed. Most bizarre for me at that age (18, I think), though I did my best to take it in fun. I thought it abusive, however, and even said as much which made things much worse for me. Ahhh... youth. LOL!

The films had a great many testimonials on them in fact, with mostly celebrities praising Hubbard and Scientology as the only way to live, or you might as well die, essentially. I remember being incredibly surprised that Chick Corea (sp? jazz musician) was one of "them".

In this way, there is a "brain-washing" of a sort, in that the only valid measures for any self mastery were strictly determined by Hubbard's mental standards alone, and any varying from the rules set forth were strictly disciplined out of the individual. In sometimes quite abusive ways. This may not take another's free will because they willingly submit themselves to the belief structure and disciplined protocol, but remember that's often obtained blindly up front, and it has the result of no free will for the individual in the end, I'd imagine. If they stick with it, or feel compelled or forced to, which was quite feasible, from what I experienced.

In my own experience, an "audit" produced a belief in the auditor that I had issues where I did not, and because this was the auditor's belief, I was locked in a small room with her unless and until I submitted to her belief. I did not for quite some time, being made to go over and over and over a single event from my past that I unwittingly first offered as a possible source of emotional pain. Because I was asked to, frankly. DOH! At the point in my recalled experience where the auditor felt a negative program was installed in me, she would insist loudly, each time, that I see it her way and rewrite the scene to her desired "better" result. I refused, over and over.

While it was a source of emotional pain for me, what was not accurate in any way was this auditor's take on it or how to deal with it. In other words, because of a twist of perception on the auditor's part, she saw my experience one way, I felt and experienced and understood it in another way, but it wasn't permitted. I had to agree with her interpretation of my experience or I was abused further.

I eventually realized I would not "be permitted to leave" until I agreed with the auditor (the door was locked, incidentally, with a key), so I did so... verbally only. I then placated her and the rest of them I encountered with the required lip-service enough so that I was allowed out the door I kept navigating my way toward, literally. I made up a reason why I had to leave that was plausible and acceptable, to secure my exit. And of course I never returned.

They harassed me via mail and phone calls for quite some time after that, attempting to extract money for "services rendered" because I entered their facility at all, though I had given them a check for I believe $35 so that I could participate for the day! Anyway, I never responded and eventually they went away. *heehee* Took about a year or so, however.

So, in my experience (which is the only way I ever feel I know anything for myself), this is a program of mind-control, set forth by a rather disturbed individual. However, another person may find great use from the tactics and information, and even feel their life is much better having availed themselves of it all. I think it depends on where you are on your path, how much will you've developed for yourself (soul-wise), and what you're here for in this life. As with anything, really.

After all, the military is the "right choice" for a great many folks too, you know? And this was a militant type experience. It seemed very much like that type of thing: strip you down to bare bones and build you up "our way".

Not for me, but hey... I learned a heckuva lot from the experience, regardless. And because I was fairly young when this happened, it woke me up to a lot of the more negatively slanted possibilities in this paradigm early on, so I navigated my way better than I might have otherwise. And I FOUND MY WILL during the experience, which is pretty invaluable at that age, I'd say. So while I don't wish it on anyone, I am nevertheless grateful for the experience myself.

Hadn't planned on spewing all that, actually. Ah well, go with the flow, eh?

~Sowelu

"The most important decision you have to make is whether you live in a hostile or friendly universe."
~ Albert Einstein

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. ~Marcel Proust

The evolution of humanity is an evolution of the heart. The path is through the heart.

Re: Mind Controlled Celebrities

To Sowelu:

I can see your point of view but there are some misunderstandings.

For example the "feminine aspect" is something that Scientology deals with in great detail, though for most people they have to have rehabilitated their ability to the stage where they can really get a grasp on what it is.

There is no implied shame or unworthiness in Scientology at any level. Shame is not something that should be felt ideally or that you should make others to feel.
In fact shame/guilt is one of the reasons we get trapped in a body in earth - we bury things in order not to feel it and our abilities get hidden.

In my own experience, an "audit" produced a belief in the auditor that I had issues where I did not

That is entirely against the Scientology auditors code so if that happened you should have complained and the auditor would have to retrain.

I can agree that there are people in Scientology who believe in it with the same kind of faith that a Christian or whatever believes in - though as Hubbard said what's true is what true for you, and you shouldn't believe anything without getting experience of it for yourself.

Re: Mind Controlled Celebrities

montalk wrote:

I've researched scientology and find it pretty sneaky.

What books have you read?

From the (many) books I read I found it explained virtually all paranormal phenonema I'd encountered whilst researching this area, including what the matrix consists of and why there are so many forces trying to stop you to break free of it. I'd really recommend going to Amazon and buying as many books on it as you can - whether you agree with it or not there are some incredible sensible theories.

From what little of the tech I've done it does work - but my interest stemmed solely from reading the theory which I felt was easily the most complete theory I'd ever read.

I find it strange that people on this site are so sceptical about Scientology given that it covers a lot of the same subjects in very similar fashion.

I can think of only one real reason for that: it works and the MCS tries every method it can to destroy it.

It's also the only philosophy that claims it has a workable path to setting you free. I read David Icke before I heard about Scientology and whilst he talked about the truth would set you free I couldn't find anything that would really do that for me unless by concentrating my awareness and interest in this area I happened upon it by chance.

From my research the only other religion/philosophy that works is Tibetan Buddhism though the path there is a lot harder to follow.

I'm sure that people like Buddha and Christ could help others get free of the MCS to some extent but whatever workable methods they have have been lost to time.

Anyway I'll bow out of the discussion here and wish you all well on your quest for enlightenment. If I've made anyone think Scientology possibly isn't as sneaky as they first thought then I'm happy. I'm sure there are other ways to reach enlightenment too though I think Scientology is probably the easiest.

If anyone wants to contact me about this my email is adamd@hotmail.com

79 (edited by lyra 2005-07-28 05:38:01)

Re: Mind Controlled Celebrities

Adam, you're free to believe what you want to believe, as we all are, but there are some facts that remain about Scientology which you can't refute, even if you choose to side step them and convenientlly overlook them:

- Their eagerness for money.   I saw it myself on the Scientology webpage - A free personality test that would "normally" cost you $500..  Wow!!  You get it for free!!  Yippee!!   Aren't you LUCKY??   Sowelu also confirms this: 

Sowelu wrote:

BUT, since I entered their facility, there was some pressure for me to give over money right at the beginning of this interview, or I would not be allowed to enjoy the benefits of their program... all in all, I was young and naive, and it was exploited from moment-one.

It's all about $$ $$ $$.   Give them your money, and give it now.

Here's a little secret...................knowledge that can help people live a better life is available out there, and for free.   One doesn't need to pay for all the hokey "auditings" and "clearings" and programs and classes and brainwashing seminars and books and materials and...and....and.......etc.   No.  The keys to life that can help make you a happy, adjusted person are available for free.  As it should be.  That  type of knowledge shouldn't have a price.   Which leads to my next point...

- All the Pomp and Circumstance  The "auditings" and "clearings" and programs and brainwashing and books and materials........it's nuts.  All this "stuff" that gets you further and further away from the truth, and further and further into debt.

- Their intimidation tactics - Take a look at Sedna Sphere's posts in this thread and her personal account of what she went through.  Re-read what Sowelu wrote:   

Sowelu wrote:

I eventually realized I would not "be permitted to leave" until I agreed with the auditor (the door was locked, incidentally, with a key), so I did so... verbally only. I then placated her and the rest of them I encountered with the required lip-service enough so that I was allowed out the door I kept navigating my way toward, literally. I made up a reason why I had to leave that was plausible and acceptable, to secure my exit. And of course I never returned.

Then there's the account I relayed on this thread of an ex-Scientologist slave that I met on another messageboard forum.   She was a SLAVE, not permitted to leave the Hollywood Scientology headquarters.   

- The fact they have slaves   See above.  Need I say more?

-They don't let you just leave -  There's harrassment and resistance to somebody changing their mind and leaving.   Again, Sowelu and Sedna Sphere both mentioned this, and also ties into the slaves they forcibly keep on staff.  What kind of an organization harrasses and intimates people who change their mind?  If they were STO oriented, they would respect your choice.  But they don't.

- "The Script."  All these Scientologists spout the same script.   And the more famous they are, the more robotic and scripted they become.   


This is the dark and shady side of Scientology, the REAL Scientology, under all that Hollywood hoopla.

Honestly, I hesitated in even posting this, because if there's one thing most people know not to argue about, it's religion.  There's no winning an argument about religion, and just no point.  But then again, Scientology isn't a religion, it's a shady organization, so, why not, go for it I figured.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

Re: Mind Controlled Celebrities

I understand this point of view lyra. It was pretty much my point of view before I really researched this and I wouldn't have bothered researching it if someone I trusted hadn't been able to explain the other side of the coin (which makes more sense to me). If you really are interested in the other side of the story email me.

Re: Mind Controlled Celebrities

Adam wrote:

I understand this point of view lyra. It was pretty much my point of view before I really researched this and I wouldn't have bothered researching it if someone I trusted hadn't been able to explain the other side of the coin (which makes more sense to me). If you really are interested in the other side of the story email me.

Why do I have to "email you" in private to get the "other side" of the story?  I would think you could just post it here, on the forum, out in the open, so everybody can get the benefit...

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

Re: Mind Controlled Celebrities

Adam wrote:

I understand this point of view lyra. It was pretty much my point of view before I really researched this and I wouldn't have bothered researching it if someone I trusted hadn't been able to explain the other side of the coin (which makes more sense to me). If you really are interested in the other side of the story email me.

Actually I don't think you understand anyones point of view. Your responses sound very programmed because you're completely ignoring most of the issues people are addressing here, like the money issue, and most importantly the extreme levels of control that Scientology tries to enforce on people.

I've read time and time again that Scientology has little or no respect for freewill. People are often threatened, harassed and mentally abused in order to get them to stick with the program. Or are you saying that none of this is true and that everyone, including Sowelu, are lying about their experiences? Or perhaps they just didn't understand that mental abuse is good for them and their soul?

How can you read about Sowelus's experience, which is far from unique, and then try and promote Scientology as something that is positive?

Here is an article about newspaper reporters recent experience with Scientology

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objecti … _page.html

I don't know about you but when I read that lots of alarm bells start going off in my head.


...When I tell Peter I'm interested in learning more, he swiftly hands me another book. It highlights the shortcomings of man and the destruction of the natural world, praising Hubbard. Peter warns me that as a volunteer I will have to pay to become qualified.

I tell him I've heard mixed reports about Scientology, but he dismisses my fears, saying: "People always have reservations about something they don't understand."...


...IT'S 9am, and Laura looks at me with pity. She tells me I'm depressed, anxious and nervous. She has analysed the results from my personality test.

But there is a way for me to confront my problems: Scientology. The truth is, I have no worries at present and have never suffered from depression. I would also consider myself outgoing and confident, whereas the test results insist that I'm inhibited and shy.

I'm introduced to a more senior woman called Ann and told she will be able to help me. I'm not asked if I want to be helped - only if I want to set my life straight as it's in disarray...


...Studying is from 9am to 6pm, with a lunch break at 12. There is a 15-minute break in the afternoon, and returning late is frowned on. It feels like being back in school, only much stricter.

I'm ushered down into a basement cinema to watch a glossy film about Scientology. Successful people, among them actors John Travolta and Kirstie Alley, tell how it has helped them.

The film seems to blame other religions for the materialism of mankind and the destruction of the planet. It focuses on Hubbard's commercial success and the fortune he made and donated to Scientology. He is even compared with Buddha.

It's recommended I buy seven essential books, as well as DVDs. I reckon saving myself could cost more than  £200. I return home exhausted. It's been gruelling...


..We sit in silence for five minutes. Then it begins again - 30 more minutes of nothing except the man repeating: "Feel your chair. Thank you. Look at the front wall. Thank you."

An eerie silence fills the room. Everyone leaves looking slightly stunned. I stumble out feeling dazed and troubled. My head hurts...


...Mike reassures me that what happens won't harm me in any way, but I feel vulnerable and confused.

I close my eyes as he asks me to regress to a negative incident in my life that I feel comfortable confronting. I'm encouraged to visualise everything around me and put myself back in space and time.

Scientologists believe this will "clear the engram" and I will have no more of the negative memories.

Afterwards I feel shaken, especially when I realise the session lasted one hour and 30 minutes - I'd guessed it was 30 minutes maximum.

It was an experience I won't volunteer for again. I didn't feel in danger at any point but it was deeply unsettling. By 6pm on my final day I am desperate to leave.

I can't believe how quickly I became immersed in the church. I constantly felt the need to accept what I was being told.

It's been an incredibly stressful week. I feel a great wave of relief as I walk out for the last time."

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Re: Mind Controlled Celebrities

Here's the deal, as I see it.  There is absolutely no talking to a born again Christian, a devout Mormon, a conspiracy "nut", a Scientologist and others who "belong" to a group and who are AT THE MOMENT sold on their "chosen" thing.  It's just not possible.  AND it wastes time, energy and space.

Adam says he knows what he knows and believes mainly through books.  His personal experience apparently is slim to none with actual auditing and courses and with the history of the organization, it's core members and long time members.  I accept that from what he has read and learned, he has gained something.  Fine.  I also can agree that many philosophies do not present a "recipe" for how to feel/do better.  So, something that offers a delineated path can be appealing. 

On the other, more sinister hand ... IF we continue to banter back and forth about Scientology, we at NR run the very real risk of having a plethora of lurkers/new members/ who are going to rail road this forum into a screaming anti/pro match.

No fun there.  And zero gain to those of us who prefer to keep the work free, in the truest sense.

My 3 ¢ for this morning.

Warm regards,
Christine

84 (edited by Tom Paine 2005-07-28 08:37:00)

Re: Mind Controlled Celebrities

My only close encounter with Scientology was when a friend, whom I respected, got involved
with it and tried to get me to join.  I told him it looked like just another power trip to me.
This was back in 1971 in Los Angeles.  When I wouldn't hear what he wanted to tell me
about LRON and his minions he decided he needed to do a "CONFRONT" with me in which
we sat down facing each other and were to stare at each others' eyes without wavering.
Well, the bottom line is that I didn't get overpowered by this guy and he had to excuse
himself because he couldn't get a "lock" on me.  Something wasn't right.  Like something
wasn't right when I was 13 years old and my grandmother took me to a Babdist revival
and everyone was supposed to close their eyes and raise their hands if they were "saved."
Well, yours truly didn't buy that one either.

Montalk, I think once again you put your finger on the crux of the Scientology thing.
3D success, popularity, rewards, but nothing for the soul.  Kenneth Anger called Scientology
"fascisim of the mind."  Even the Luciferian Anger couldn't stomach LRON's plan.

But it probably works for OP's who don't have souls anyway.

TP
_______________________________________________

I can't go to work today.  The voices said, "stay home and clean the guns."

85 (edited by Barefoot Doc 2005-07-28 10:23:38)

Re: Mind Controlled Celebrities

I think we must appreciate that any organisation can become unbalanced due to power greed and control exercised by the ego's of the leadership.

I know nothing about scientology apart from a few stories of how hard it is break away backed up by Sowelu's account and a few conspiracy theories about LRon
My belief is that any spiritual journey can only be taken alone, by all means with help from others spiritual wisdom who respect freewill.
Spiritual truths stand out alone and do not need celebrity endorsement or hollywood $$$$, its a fight for your belief systems and a great risk to your divine neutrality as an observer be it kabbala or Scientology.
When ever a group get together we lose that divine spark of freewill and individuality and personal power as the group mind takes over and those with the biggest ego's will end up controlling it and your belief systems.
One must realise that its most likley that popular cults especially the celebrity endorsed ones have been infiltrated by TPTB as an extention of the MK  Ultra mind control programs, they even started some of them.

Its not like we are fractions of the whole but rather versions of the whole.

Re: Mind Controlled Celebrities

lyra wrote:
Adam wrote:

I understand this point of view lyra. It was pretty much my point of view before I really researched this and I wouldn't have bothered researching it if someone I trusted hadn't been able to explain the other side of the coin (which makes more sense to me). If you really are interested in the other side of the story email me.

Why do I have to "email you" in private to get the "other side" of the story?  I would think you could just post it here, on the forum, out in the open, so everybody can get the benefit...

Unfortunately this is not a place right now where people want to listen to the other side of the story so no real point trying to talk about it here. I'm sure you've noticed before that logic is not a very powerful tool because people have so many differing assumptions they use to evaluate data.

Re: Mind Controlled Celebrities

Ayahuasca wrote:

Actually I don't think you understand anyones point of view. Your responses sound very programmed because you're completely ignoring most of the issues people are addressing here, like the money issue, and most importantly the extreme levels of control that Scientology tries to enforce on people.

Well basically you're accusing me of being extremely dim in not knowing different points of view I've held in my lifetime or of lying.
Responding to the money issue in short: Scientology is priced optimumly to survive and help as many people as possible.

I can respond to ANY particular point to the point that it's obvious there is an intelligent explanation (whether you agree with it or not). I'm not willing to here because there are several people who aren't interested in my point of view and only willing to invalidate it (which I don't particularly find fun). Unless of course people are scared that I've been taught secret brainwashing techniques to mind control people via email!

Re: Mind Controlled Celebrities

Judging by your mindless smiley face picture that you use, I can only assume that this
is what people become by using LRON's magic techniques.  What the hell, just give them
all your money and property (like the MOONIES) and you'll have that Clockwork Orange
face too!

It's not mind control that Scientology uses, it's mindf*ck.

No thanks.

TP

89 (edited by lyra 2005-07-28 11:39:24)

Re: Mind Controlled Celebrities

Adam wrote:
Ayahuasca wrote:

Actually I don't think you understand anyones point of view. Your responses sound very programmed because you're completely ignoring most of the issues people are addressing here, like the money issue, and most importantly the extreme levels of control that Scientology tries to enforce on people.

Well basically you're accusing me of being extremely dim in not knowing different points of view I've held in my lifetime or of lying.

No, actually he's accusing you of dodging the very valid issues people have brought up here....people who either were actual Scientologists, or else have explored it as a possibility for themselves.   


Adam wrote:

Responding to the money issue in short: Scientology is priced optimumly to survive and help as many people as possible.

But see...........that sounds like Scientology jargon, right there.  I had to go back and read this line several times, because it's very jargon-ish.   And it uses "helping people" as the excuse to justify charging people exhorberant amounts of money and using harrassment and intimidation tactics.   "We're only trying to HELP you, you see!  (door lock clicks into place, big beefy guy moves to block the door)  "We only care about your WELL BEING!....No, you're NOT leaving, 'kay?!"

yikes!    yikes



 

Adam wrote:

I can respond to ANY particular point to the point that it's obvious there is an intelligent explanation (whether you agree with it or not).

Well, I don't think there can be an intelligent explanation for keeping people as slave hostages at the Scientology main headquarters, or harrassing and threatening people who ask to leave the organization.     Do you?   


Adam wrote:

I'm not willing to here because there are several people who aren't interested in my point of view and only willing to invalidate it (which I don't particularly find fun).

Well, you haven't actually given a thorough, well thought out write up of your point of view thus far which adequately addresses all points brought up in this thread.   You either provide links to stuff other people wrote, or keep dodging the main points at hand, saying "there's an intelligent explanation for things"......but never saying what they actually are.  It's not that people aren't interested in your p.o.v.....it's that you haven't actually given it in an adequate way.



Adam wrote:

Unless of course people are scared that I've been taught secret brainwashing techniques to mind control people via email!

No Adam, that's not why I said to post things on the forum and keep it public versus private email.  I'm not worrried about you controlling me via email.    roll  My perspective is, if you have something to say, then just say it.   Stop being so dodgy.    Asking me to "email you" instead of just being upfront and posting what you have to say on the forum for all to read is a lure, it's game playing.   Which seems to be a popular tactic in Scientology.   I don't have time for that.    Just say what you have to say.  Don't be all trying to lure people to email you instead of just saying what you have to say.   That whole Scientology tactic of "Weeeeelllll....if you want _______ then you have to do ______ first."   That's b.s.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

Re: Mind Controlled Celebrities

Adam wrote:

I can see your point of view but there are some misunderstandings.

Understood, Adam. One person's experience does not a whole picture make. No sweat. I'm not out to vilify, and I appreciate that your choices and opinions differ from mine. This is part and parcel of the myriad making up The One. Something I celebrate to the best of my ability.

~Sowelu

"The most important decision you have to make is whether you live in a hostile or friendly universe."
~ Albert Einstein

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. ~Marcel Proust

The evolution of humanity is an evolution of the heart. The path is through the heart.