• Registered: 2004-04-09

Re: Orgins of God

Young Prince, can you distinguish your intellect from your intuition? I ask in sincerity. smile

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant

17 Reply by Krazor

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Re: Orgins of God

Haven, your back. Where you been. I like your idea that the big whatever responds to what we project.  I had a philosophy course during the last century, and the guy used that premise as a corner stone of his teaching. Very interesting and refreshing. It is whatever you want it to be. Really takes the gag out of the maggot. Direct contact with the big whatever is just too many amps for me, but I can handle the mechanics and the design of the reality is a tattle tale of the mind of the designer. A hard copy clue, no prophesy, no revelation to be interpreted. Just the math. The big whatever seems to use physics as a language and that we discovered  the science of physics at all is one of the things that gets me hopeful for the future of the mess we call human. Nice hearing from you again.

18 Reply by Monica

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Re: Orgins of God

Barefoot Doc wrote: "As gerardus says we are probably the creator living as the created, we have fallen into our own creation and forgot who we really are."

I don't have conscious access to the physics but I live with this simple but effective view.

Creator Spirit (Mind Heart) has always been. God.dess is the consciousness of Creator Spirit. The Eternal Sun is the infinite Source body of creative essence, the material "stuff" of creation. Unified, consciousness and matter = Creator Spirit. None of this has never not existed. There was a "time" when god.dess consciousness was One (still is but I'll get to that) and there were no individuals, no "other" beings. Masculine and feminine principles (two parts of unified god.dess consciousness) rubbed each other like masculine and feminine do, expanding consciousness, but they didn't see themselves as "two". Eventually they rubbed to orgasm (big bang). Sparks of the creative essence became individualized, and suddenly there was "other", still part of Creator Spirit, thus unified, but now individual and seeing for the first time an "other" and contemplating that there were possibly "two". This means we're all entities of god.dess consciousness (i.e., gods and goddesses), just that we individuated. With this consciousness we are all creators, which means we are able to bring forth the possibilities that live in the Mind Heart of Creator Spirit by using CS's physical matter (the Eternal Sun).

Eons and eons and eons have passed since this happened the first time, and it keeps happening. Outbreath of creation, inbreath of return to unity, outbreath of creation, inbreath of return to unity. This universe is just one of many universes that have come and gone. No destruction or creation of energies, but recycling happens all the time. As god.desses we have set up many worlds and entity expressions and experiences to learn and grow and enjoy, expanding consciousness ever on, becoming and creating what we project by what we think and feel as expressions of the Mind Heart of Creator Spirit.

Anybody who says God is "He" and is to be worshipped and paid and if you don't do as "He" says you'll go to hell is trying to keep this information from you ... that YOU are god.dess, sovereign creators. Part of this includes that some of these controllers projected certain thought forms as predictions and prophecies but they are just projections and don't have to come to pass if we change our thoughts and feelings. Do we want to live in the system that somebody else has designed and claims "god" created, or do we want to live in a system of our own design? I'm an atheist because I don't believe in the god that is shoved down human throats, but I am a believer because I am god.dess.

We created earth originally as a playground, kids in a sandbox, joyfully enacting our Mind Heart. We had to change it to be a school because of what we needed to learn by "separating" into self and other. Let's get back to playing.

Peace,
Mon

  • Registered: 2004-04-09

Re: Orgins of God

You beautiful spirit you, Mon! I agree with all of it.

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant
  • Registered: 2005-03-07

Re: Orgins of God

young prince...

Would it be too difficult for you to shelve your question about a Creator for the time being?  Do you need to know?  Could you go on accomplishing what you want to accomplish, and seeking whatever you seek, without having to have an answer?

On my path I have noticed that it is helpful to be able to live in uncertainty, and not need to know everything.  And, besides, as someone said to me the other day (on a different topic, but I believe it is applicable here): "...If there is no afterlife, you'll never know."

A very telling exercise is to write out your belief system BASED ONLY ON WHAT YOU HAVE PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED.  In other words, sack the concept of belief for a while and proceed only by what you've experienced.  Assume nothing.  If you don't know, say "I don't know."  (This is a disconcerting exercise for the ego smile ). 

There's no shame in being agnostic.  (Literally "agnositc" means "without knowledge," right?) 

Dare to be stupid.

You can't change a tiger's stripes,
but you can avoid its teeth.

21 Reply by Haven (edited by Haven 2005-07-23 22:29:26)

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Re: Orgins of God

I'm of a different mind about traditions.  The new traditions demonize the old, and that is what we're seeing with these New Age semantics.  If anyone wanted to go back to the source of any religion and read the holy books, you'd see a different picture than what has been packaged.  Christianity, for example, has Jesus saying that we are gods, but nobody takes the time to actually research.  It also, time and time again, says that God loves humanity as children, if you acknowledge that you have the responsibility of one of His children.  Paul relates that humanity was as slaves, being treated as a young child would be under a strict tutelage, but that, as we mature, we are called to be heirs of God's creation. 

The calling of God as "He" is supposed to signify the role that humanity has come to associate with the male, being the seed, and people, such as the Jews and Gentiles, as being the "bride", or "female", because they recieve the seed.  One cannot criticize literalism and judgment while doing the very same thing without coming off as emotionally biased with little basis in objectivity.

Most of the traditions that are out there have wisdom if we could just get over our issues with them.  It's already all there, we just have to access our humanity to access the keys.  We are still in the same mind as our ancestors, but we are pretending to be more enlightened that we are, because we have learned new, fancy ways of thinking and labeling things.  One must trust the heart and spirit more than one must trust the mind.

As they say, there are no atheists in foxholes, because in dire situations, we realize how much BS our lives really are, and we are humbled by our deepest understandings of the world that we have shrugged off for pretty words and illusions of happiness and security, realizing it is beliefs that are important, those things that touch us at the deepest, honest parts of our self.  We come face to face with the truth of our "soul" and we can do nothing but pay homage to something greater because we realize how we little we are in control.  The best our souls can do is what we have repeatedly come up with for generations.  Words mean little in that position, and only serve to explain the psychology and spirit of those who have explained their religious experiences that way.

And tithing is also supposed to be a spiritual practice, to give your finest of earth's spoils to the heavenly realm, because we acknowledge that the spiritual realm is more important than the best of the physical realm.  This is supposed to remind us of that attitude.  It matters little what a priest may be using this money in a different attitude; what's important is the attitude we possess when we practice our beliefs.

Seriously, it's all there if we just had the eyes to see it and the ears to hear it.  That's not to say that the newer trends, even if they are old trends, are worse than the current traditions, but I honestly don't see the benefit of demonizing the old so that the new can have enough confidence to flourish, acting nothing more the very thing the claim to abhor.  Let the new methods flourish on its merits, whatever they may be.  I only wish that the new minds could see that they are repeating the cycle, ultimately destined to rot and fall and be preyed upon by a new system, and step out of that cycle to start a whole new trend, a better trend.

If we are gods, then for those who truly believe this should be an example, not merely projecting hypocrites.  The beginning path is the path to self, not your attachments to the world.  After you have cleansed yourself of much of the illusions that create negativity in your life, which stem from self, not from others, then you are able to come back to the world without it being a stumbling block, growing towards a positive and enlightened attitude, a burden that is light and easy to bear.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

22 Reply by Monica

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Re: Orgins of God

Thank you, thook.

Haven wrote:

"One must trust the heart and spirit more than one must trust the mind."

Indeed, our original blueprint was to receive "divine" ideas through the heart, nurture them, then see them to creation through the mind. That was turned around to the mind being the receiver of ideas so we could understand "separation" (from our heart and unity) and "other". Returning to unity must come through the heart.

And:

"I honestly don't see the benefit of demonizing the old so that the new can have enough confidence to flourish, acting nothing more the very thing the claim to abhor. "

Stepping out of the old without judgment ... a "been there done that" attitude, not a "I must leave you behind because you're at fault" reality.

Also:

"After you have cleansed yourself of much of the illusions that create negativity in your life, which stem from self, not from others,"

Indeed. This cleansing comes from taking personal responsibility. Individuality, which comes from experiencing the duality of self and other, can be maintained in unity. It is the most sovereign but is unattainable without personal responsibility.

Peace,
Mon

23 Reply by impatiens

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Re: Orgins of God

what if nobody ever talked to us about god? what if we never heard of god(s)?

what then? would we just talk about coming from our mothers' bodies (after conjoining with our fathers' bodies), and we all come from here, this planet/earth? salt of the earth?

ancient people sitting around in the dark, under starry skies wondering about shit, like where we all came from. dreaming. illusions. maybe the answer's are much, much closer than we think? wink

  • Registered: 2005-06-26

Re: Orgins of God

Maybe I wouldn't have labeled it "God", but I had an inner sense of, and contact with, this vaster energy that felt more "parent" than my physical parents, as a child. It was accessed inwardly, and nurtured and guided me from within, right from the start. So I'm pretty sure, without any religious "training", I'd still ponder, wonder, talk about and search for answers about... what I've always sensed at the unseen level.

"The most important decision you have to make is whether you live in a hostile or friendly universe."
~ Albert Einstein

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. ~Marcel Proust

The evolution of humanity is an evolution of the heart. The path is through the heart.
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Re: Orgins of God

impatiens wrote:

what if nobody ever talked to us about god? what if we never heard of god(s)?

what then? would we just talk about coming from our mothers' bodies (after conjoining with our fathers' bodies), and we all come from here, this planet/earth? salt of the earth?

ancient people sitting around in the dark, under starry skies wondering about shit, like where we all came from. dreaming. illusions. maybe the answer's are much, much closer than we think? wink

I think this is an excellent point.

Have to keep in mind too that the ancients were more in tune psychically and spiritually with nature and other realms than those of us in modern times.   Same goes for modern indigenous people who are also more in tune with things, having more abilities.   There may be a very real reason for why they believed in and spoke of Gods and the creator......could be they were better able to connect to it and see / experience something that we can't anymore.    Think of a modern human in any modern urban city - that person is usually so cut off from anything spiritual, their abilities atrophied.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

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26 Reply by impatiens

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Re: Orgins of God

I have a "confession" to make; maybe it's the latent Catholic in me? lol

I'd only skimmed the bottom of this thread and then added my 2cents worth. Nevertheless... today I went back to the original question where 'young prince' was asking for answers about the origins of God, and I'm bowled over by the responses. Humbled to be precise.

So back to...
Mystery. (Damn Ayahuasca, you nailed it. As did Krazor, Monica, Thook, Lyra, Barefoot, Haven, Sowelu, Dreamosis...et al...

Maybe we are not (yet) able to comprehend, in this dimension/life? Ergo, we at some point need to accept the mystery of it all? Relax, go with the flow of life, do the best we can, live, love, create, share and enjoy? Practical stuff. Enjoy. Especially that. And I don't mean selfishly.

The question of the "origins" of God. I vividly remember long ago, around Christmas time, in my Grandmother's house, always happy there [a shout out to my nanny Josephine] I vividly recall seeing, get this -- a box of Pot of Gold chocolates; early 60s, packaging with a woman on the upper-left corner of the box and she was holding a box of P of G with a design of the box, with her on it, and so on, and so on. For some inexplicable reason I was fascinated with this image. And it caused me enormous anxiety. I never told anyone about this, then. Didn't have words to convey my thoughts/feelings about it. I now realize that I was glimpsing an example, a vivid graphic example of INFINITY and it shook me to my core. I somehow felt/knew that nobody could satisfactorily explain this notion to me and that's why I didn't bother to talk about it; along with the fact that I couldn't explain my feelings, my anxiety.

I believe in infinity. But who can begin to explain it? So whether atheist or religious...none can begin to explain, satisfactorily. Maybe we just have to "accept" the notion, and go with the flow of it? Or not, if that's your preference.

When you think about it, it really is the ultimate question, the ultimate mystery. Time. Infinity. If we believe in God/dess, Creation... ; that they created all/us, then where did God come from. See. I can't even begin.

Before time. Always was, always will be. Forever. For ever. Can any one of us honestly wrap our minds around it? I cannot. Maybe it's not our minds that we should be wrapping. Maybe, like someone said earlier, it's our hearts wink

Baby Gods? Cosmic cookies? Thanks Andy, I'll take some cosmic chocolates, please. Pot of Godl. [good typo huh, I'm not changing it]

Oh, and just to add to the fun, see this link if you like. I don't know if you will, but it resonates deeply with me. I just luv it.

http://eelrijue.narod.ru/english_index.html

The book about love.

Peace n hugs n infinity, amj

  • Registered: 2004-04-09

Re: Orgins of God

Something my wife always says to me is," YOU WILL NEVER FIGURE IT OUT FROM THIS LEVEL!" Those of us addicted to using the intellect to answer this question will go nuts. Sooner or later the why, where, how box of answers to life's persistent questions has to go. Nothing infinite can be explained from a finite viewpoint. As J. Krishnamurti says,"The known cannot commune with the unknown; the known must cease for the unknown to be." Then the answer is possible.

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant
  • Registered: 2005-07-21

Re: Orgins of God

All of the above are fantastic theories, but my biggest concern is "how do you know this to be true" what has happened in your life for you to believe that your're theory is the ULTIMATE TRUTH. Im sure that our enviorment (books,people,school,etc....) has influenced us in some way, and the enviorment lead us to believe in "some-thing", but once again how can you really believe in something that dosent have any substantial evidence........?

29 Reply by impatiens

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Re: Orgins of God

young prince wrote:

All of the above are fantastic theories, but my biggest concern is "how do you know this to be true" ...................but once again how can you really believe in something that dosent have any substantial evidence........?

Well Doubting Thomas, err Young Prince wink

Truth, like beauty, etc., is in the mind's eye of the beholder.

You gotta' figure it out/feel it for yourself.

  • montalk
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Re: Orgins of God

Young Prince, what do you qualify as evidence? Perhaps you are setting the bar higher than your trust in an inner knowing and demand that your eyes do the job of your heart. Or maybe your definitions are not framed in the correct context. What you are really asking is, when did eternity begin? Where does the circle end and begin? Because you are looking for a beginning, your question assumes that linear time precedes the creation of time. Sure, you can trace it back pretty far but if you go "beyond the beginning" you'll find yourself "at the end" again, a big circle that is itself just a figment of thought in the mind of infinity.

I suppose if you want evidence, you would have to look for that which contradicts the belief in a material deterministic universe. Quantum physics disproves that this universe is entirely deterministic, and shows instead that something outside mathematical and physical laws shapes the course of events. What is beyond physicality other than consciousness? And being that consciousness is what shapes and gives rise to physical existence wouldn't the totality of all consciousness be considered the universal Creator? It would be the core that thinks your thoughts and feels your feelings and perceives your perceptions - proof is in being aware of your own awareness.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

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