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Re: RFID tags

Frog legs for dinner?   Speaking of frogs (as a frenchman in good standing/good humor), the lyrics to Le Marseillaise were posted today at cloakanddagger.ca.                                                                "What do they want this horde of slaves
Of traitors and conspiratorial kings?
For whom these vile chains
These long-prepared irons?
Frenchmen, for us, ah! What outrage
What methods must be taken?
It is us they dare plan
To return to the old slavery!
What! These foreign cohorts!
They would make laws in our courts!
What! These mercenary phalanxes
Would cut down our warrior sons
Good Lord! By chained hands
Our brow would yield under the yoke
The vile despots would have themselves be
The masters of destiny
Tremble, tyrants and traitors
The shame of all good men
Tremble! Your parricidal schemes
Will receive their just reward"

La Marseillaise - French Anthem

Re: RFID tags

Yes, what methods must be taken? I'd like to know so I can sock it to em. Now I will
"reduce my visibility as a target."

Re: RFID tags

Testing of RFID in Texas Wal-Marts has already begun. The plan is for 100+ products by '05. They're gonna have them set up with booths explaining about RFID inside the Wal-Mart. It was admitted that the chips will be sewn inside of the product (hidden).

http://www.internetnews.com/wireless/ar … hp/3347881

http://logistics.about.com/b/a/042904.htm

I am as is Void.

Re: RFID tags

The Texas Instruments DST tag is a cryptographically enabled RFID transponder used in several wide-scale systems including vehicle imobilizers and the ExxonMobil SpeedPass system. This page serves as an overview of our successful attacks on DST enabled systems. A preliminary version of the full academic paper describing our attacks in detail is also available below.
This is almost funny.  Stealing gas and avoiding vehicle immobilization has never been easier.  Thanks RFID~!

Re: RFID tags

In regards to RFID tags,

I talked to a U.S. Passport Agency representative last week and he said that the RFID chips are currently being placed into almost all new passports (there may be some without them).  Already, since the early 90's or before, the barcode is also in use on all passports.

Instant computer info on any U.S.-American citizen...

I am probably sure that these chips are also in use in other countries worldwide...

The RFID chip tech can be tracked via sattelite and monitor each individual's international/national movements (if so targeted, and if carrying the passport physically, in addition to being scanned at each customs entry points).

-Indigo

Christ, the narrow path, saves those willing

Re: RFID tags

RFID tags can't be read from any great distance, especially not from a satellite miles above the earth. I'm pretty sure the highest frequency tags currently produced can be read from a distance of 300 feet or so. Most can only be read within a few yards distance. This is due to the working of the RFID tag itself. Most RFID tags can't transmit any information; they can only be read by a receiver/tag reader. A tag reader actually powers the tag by creating a magnetic field between the tag and itself. When it's not being read the tag has no power source.

Now, there ARE active tags that can transmit info on their own, BUT these need battery power, are very expensive, are quite a bit larger due to the need for a battery and thus can't be easily hidden, and still cannot transmit more than a few hundred feet on their own.

Remember, these are RADIO FREQUENCY identifiers. Radio waves are generally very weak. Consider how much power is needed to transmit an FM radio station and than compare that to the amount of power the battery in an active RFID chip could put out. You see my point? There are much better ways to track a person from afar than by RFID.

I think there's a lot of unwarranted paranoia about RFID because the technology itself and how it works are largely misunderstood. Read up on how RFID actually works. www.rfidjournal.com is a great place to start. RFID is not inherently malicious. Although it could be used to track your movements from place to place, carrying a passport around while having that passport checked along the way, there's no way in hell anyone's going to be able to read your passport RFID tag from thousands of feet away.

If I sound pro-RFID, this is not the case. I'm simply skeptical and anti-sensationalism, especially anti-sensationalism for topics which have little or no evidence.

37 (edited by indigo 2005-02-01 16:01:06)

Re: RFID tags

Sorry, that's right, I wrongly remembered my conversation with the Passport Agency rep.

I thought I asked him if the passports could be read by sattelite and he said 'yes', but now I remember him saying 'I don't know...'.

I do tend to get a bit paranoid and sensational alot.

[edit: though much paranormal and supernatural and conspiracy research is sensational in many standard respects and it's not hard to get too carried away too easily as the subject matter is inherently 'sensational' and tends to make the seasoned researcher paranoid to some extent-- 'You're NOT paranoid if THEY really are out to get ya!']

I do know that they can track you by sattelite in certain ways (here I am refering to certain 'tagged' individuals who are being monitored closely via implants by the various high-tech human groups, and the alien/et groups-- whose tech may not be via sattelite but by some other high-tech means...)

Only certain individuals of interest would be closely followed (and occasionally picked up and/or abducted on regular intervals/timeframes).

I do think they can track people through their cell phones too (am I wrong on that?).

Yes, with the RFID tech, they could determine which customs/borders points you cross...

-Indigo

Christ, the narrow path, saves those willing

Re: RFID tags

Yeah they can definitely track you by your cell phone. I remember at least one case where one suspected "terrorist" in the US was tracked by his cell phone and arrested.

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Re: RFID tags

I tried the above link  http://www.sauderzone.com/ubtlinks.htm for the list of underground bases, but it does not work.
Does anyone know where else I might find this information?

"Would it help if I got out and pushed?"

"It might..."

Re: RFID tags

Hmm, appears his site account expired. There's an archived version on the net, check it out. The links there will take you to archived versions of those sites as well, however.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

41 (edited by UnbiddenTruth 2005-05-31 15:55:36)

Re: RFID tags

Hmm.. not sure i've pointed this out already, but a great deal of cities are built on top of .. you guessed it, cities. Futurama makes jokes about it, but it's a pretty common knowledge amongst knowledgeable circles. The underground is huge, and always has been. It's not that big of a deal. If you go exploring, you'll meet very interesting people and maybe even die by some very interesting other things as well. The whole world that is taught in the system is a joke. hands down. there' more than enough evidence to suggest that entire nuclear wars could have already happened here on planet earth and we're slowly rebuilding what was lost. (all sorts of conspiracy theories) in the last one. That the history being taught today is a history long lost to a civilization that destroyed itself not long ago, that we're now mimicing and trying to rebuild on behalf of the survivors, who have a nosalgia for the past. Then again, I'm more prone to think it's more like any other 'natural' landscape.. and peoples have inhabited the same lands for generations, each generation inventing new stories about how things were and will be, when really nothing is linear, especially not technology.

But, still, it's interesting to note that the underground has been and continues to be explored on a regular basis, the key thing is to find the entrances when no one's watching and take a look. Generally speaking, no one can stop you, if you're a citizen of this country, these places are considered public. This is generally speaking, as there are plenty who will guard their underground territory with deadly force. So be warned.

Now the question is, how much of this am I making up? Not really sure, because I myself haven't explored many of them personally, but I have a great deal of faith in the information I have in this reguard, it helps to explain some of the more obvious inconsistancies of surface land based mathematical errors.

err.. and i forgot the original point that I was posting about. Basically, RFID tags.. are bogus. There are lenty of people who give of more radio signals than any of these tags ever will. Heck, heavy bass music would disrupt the readers in a heartbeat. I'm curious about what frequency they run on.

And i'll bet you money that these things have been available and hacked at hacker conventions all over the country already. Take a peak sometime and find out. I could care less. If I find one on my stuff, I tear it apart. Very simple.

Re: RFID tags

It would seem that some suppliers of Wal-Mart products have grown a spine with respect to meeting deadlines set for delivering products with RFID. At least someone has some sense . . .

http://www.cio.com/archive/111504/rfid.html

http://www.tmcnet.com/channels/e-busine … g-rfid.htm

I am as is Void.

Re: RFID tags

German privacy hackers develop RFID zapper
http://gnn.tv/B11981

Re: RFID tags

I am surprised I never responded to this thread.

I have one of the most highly polished Tin-Foil Hats around, but I am not terribly worried about RFID, not the commercially advertised incarnations anyway.

I work as the IT manager for the largest RFID company in the world. We are *the* supplier of RFID tags and devices to the DoD. With the tags and devices available from my company, Matrics, Alien etc.. you needent worry. These tags are too expensive, too big and too weak to be of concern to people. (Expensive being the primary gating item to ubiquity)

However - i would remind people that a cell phone is far more an unknown and exploitable device than the current commercially advertised and known RFID tags.

RFID is a phenomenon that has been known about for a long time. (as are cell phones which were first proofed in the 40s) and as mentioned falls into two categories. Active or Passive. Active tags have a battery which powers the antennae - passive tags merely respond to RF waves that pass throguh them and "reply" with a unique signature.

Passive tags hold very little data, usually just an ID - or serial number. Active tags have memory and can hold real data, such as the manifest of a shipping container.

The data still needs to be read and dealt with in a meaningful way. Passive IDs need to be correlated to a backend DB which equates the ID with some meaningful data, such as a record of what that ID actually represents.

Active tags are a bit more flexible in that they can provide info which does not necessarily require the backed DB to understand what the tag is identifying, or what that container holds.

My company, Savi Technologies, only produces Active tags. These tags are large, expensive and meant for tracking THINGS. Containers specifically - or large cost items, such as a vehicle. Our tags are used on shipping containers and trucks, and pose no threat to personal privacy, unless you dont want people (yourself) to know what you placed inside some container which is being shipped from one port to the next.

Active tags, backed by batteries, arent just capable of greater range, they are capable of TELLING the reader system about events that occur. For example - we have some tags which have sensors on them. Light, temp. humidity, shock etc. These sensors can be set to alert if they go off or above threshold. This is important when you are concerned about the viability/integrity of the property the tag is "watching". Some medications spoil if exposed to certain temperatures for extended periods of time. The sensor tag can monitor temp then alert if it gets too high for too long. Some munitions automatically ARM themselves if they receive a certain amount of shock. so the tags would warn if a munition is armed, important to know if your going to be moving a box of explosives via crane or forklift.

Active tags cost between 60 and 85 dollars per tag. Are roughly 4" long and 1" high and 1.5" wide. Active tags run at 433 megahertz and 123 kilhertz (the two frequencies are used for two different functions: reading data from the tag (433) or sending commands to the tag (123)).

There are some new active tags which are smaller, and run on 802.11 (wifi) frequencies, but there are a great number of challenges in that freq. range.

Passive tags are a losing proposition for most companies as the manufacturing cost is greater than what the tag can be sold for. Before tags can be ubiquitous in products - they need to be throw-away cheap. some person I dont know said that the magic number for passive tags was .05 (a nickel) - but one thing that hasnt been talked about with regards to the mass use of RFID is the backend databases and logic application required to actually do anything with the data read from tags. This obviously implies the reader infrastructure as well.

There is a lot of supporting infrastructure required to do anything of interest with RFID - its not jsut that you dfeploy a bunch of tags and all of a sudden you can track people.

You need to know what location each reader is at, you need to be able to tell tags where or who they are. What if people move tags around and put them on things that are not the original item tagged? Then you have false data.

anyway - if anyone has any other questions about RFID and how its used and what they should worry about - post it here...

since this thread was started, google maps has gone live and you can get a much better picture of denver airport on it.

In closing, one of the interesting things I read in this thread was montalks quoted posting of the transdimentional gate at the (denver) airport. What more perfect a place to put a thing like that than at an airport. Streams of people come out of the airport, and nobody would question them walking out of the airport as being anything other than one who arrived via plane.

It would be interesting to count the number of people leaving the airport and compare that with the number of flights (or terrestrial planes).

"It's hard to advance freedom in a country that has been strangled by tyranny." - G.W. Bush 04/13/2004

Re: RFID tags

Speaking of DIA, several months ago a cloudbuster member "accidentally" flushed a whole bag of agnihotra ash down the toilet there and wreaked havoc with the lizards. Many laughs over that one. They say Denver is destined to be the western capital for the NWO after the earth changes.