1 Topic by JT

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Topic: A Demons Perspective

Hi,

Though I continue to remain open to the concept of Organic Portals, as I remain open to all matters, the concept of the OP continues to go against my experience. My experience being that everything has light within it, no matter how dark and clouded it may be. That is to say we are all returning back to the light. The darkness being the shadow that is cast by the light.

I have come across some extremely dark and terrifying entities in Shamanic work, none of which have resisted returning to light when offered the opportunity, although I have to admit that at times it took a degree of persuasion.

I came across this brief article and felt it was appropriate to post it and would like to hear your feedback.

                                            Demons

That's the worst thing for us - to adapt. We hate any laws and rules. Upon entering your Earth plane through the terrible experience of birth , we lose almost all our abilities, or what your Vedic scholars called siddhas. This is the price we have to pay for a chance to know love. A high price indeed. Powerless, stripped of all siddhas we undergo a lot of humiliation and mockery in your world. We suffer a great deal. We get trapped into what your spiritual scholars called the samsara cycle, the cycle of birth and death. In our world we don't have any birth, death, decease and old age. All these are problems of your world. They arise from the state of consciousness you are in. Life and death are two different things in your world - you are enslaved by this dual perception. In our world we are always dead - we are dead for love, but we are at the same time alive, life and death are not different. We are the energy of the densest dimensions, we are what your material world rests upon.
The distinction between life and death does not exist after the density goes beyond a certain point. So we are immortal. This corresponds with the Biblical conception of the eternal Hell - you can stay there forever, if you can. In your world people deem us antisocial, psychopathic,
schizophrenic, you name it; we have to solve financial situations, look for so-called jobs, obey state laws, get married - so many rules, so many customs. That is too much to bear for many of us. Instead of love we get negative experience, loathing and contempt from people. So many of us are treated badly - we are weak in your world, we can't protect ourselves in these bodies, we don't know how to resist. Some get frustrated and choose to return before the end of their current incarnation term. In your world it is either a suicide or going completely mad. Or going berserk and starting to wreak havoc amongst your kind until you shoot us like wild dogs or hang us by the > neck until we are dead, dead, dead...
We are not from the Devil as your Christian religion tells you . Some of your priests have to be put in our underworld after they die. Suppression of your natural desires will never do you any good. By trying to suppress the natural you come to the unnatural. You have a lot of problems with sex related crime - rape, child abuse... That's mostly the result of suppressed self-expression. Your religious leaders are wrong in saying that homosexuality is from the Devil, that is, from us. It is the thing of human making. We don't need such > perversions as gender is the thing that is under our full control. We can be a female at one time and place and a male at another. We can > switch gender as easily as you change clothes... We come for Love as in our world we can't experience Love. Your plane is a necessary step in our evolution. Those of us who are on your planet channel the energy of Love to our underworld so that the pain of yearning and separation from the Source we feel there could be lessened.

Source: www.alloya.com

Regards

JT

2 Reply by BlackBox (edited by BlackBox 2004-05-16 10:23:51)

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Re: A Demons Perspective

A good read, JT. Thanks for posting it up.

Little confused though. Are you suggesting that the entities portrayed in this monologue are what we sometimes label as one variety of Organic Portals?

It is of my opinion that those who persecute, judge/label and drive such beings into suffrage or suicide ARE OP's. Not the other way around. Adamics may do this due to programming and amnesia from the power of mind over matter, human will over manipulation, individuality over group-mass-hysteria, etc.

Maybe you can continue on explaining. Obviously you have much experience. Much more than I in any paranormal scenarios. But if you could clear up exactly what you want to point out from this article, maybe that can lead us to continue and learn from each other.

Namaste.

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Re: A Demons Perspective

In your world people deem us antisocial, psychopathic,
schizophrenic, you name it;

Let's say that many antisocials, psychopaths, and schizophrenics are indeed these demonic beings, and that the behavioral characteristics of demons therefore includes behavior that would be identified as being antisocial, psychopathic, and schizophrenic.

What is the definition of antisocial personality disorder (psychopath/sociopathy) ?

http://www.psyweb.com/Mdisord/anpd.html

Diagnostic Criteria ( DSM-IVâ„¢ ) made easy
.
1.  Since the age of fifteen there has been a disregard for and violation of the right's of others,  those right's considered normal by the local culture,  as indicated by at least three of the following:

    A.  Repeated acts that could lead to arrest.

    B.  Conning for pleasure or profit,  repeated lying,  or the use of aliases.

    C.  Failure to plan ahead or being impulsive.

    D.  Repeated assaults on others.

    E.  Reckless when it comes to their or others safety.

    F.  Poor work behavior or failure to honor financial obligations.

    G.  Rationalizing the pain they inflict on others.

If repeated lying and rationalizing the pain they inflict on others is the natural mode of existence for demonic beings in the flesh (with the Veil on, mind you - which suppresses even more one's natural impulses), then why should we expect them to be perfectly honest in the description they gave at alloya.com? Or was their statement at alloya.com merely an example of "rationalizing the pain they inflict on others" ?

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website

4 Reply by JT (edited by JT 2004-05-16 12:01:38)

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Re: A Demons Perspective

Hi,

I have done some work with what is known generally as Soul Retrival or Spirit Releasement Therapy (SRT).

This involves the removal or entities or attachments that are mostly within the energy body of the person having the this work done.

The therapist or shaman generally goes into an altered state whilst sitting opposite the afflicted person and after a while dialogue will ensue with the entity (This is only one of many methods).That is to say that the afflicted person will adopt extreme facial expressions, contortions, a different voice or dialect and many other similar symptoms.

Side note: often the entity will have been with the same person for many lifetimes and from a historical perspective this is interesting.

There are often literally nests of these entities within the human energy field. What sustains these entities is human life force in the form of "negative energy". An extreme version of entity attachment would be possession, although there are varying degrees of influence that an entity can have on a human being - that said, what these entities use is a form of mind/emotional control that gets the afflicted person into negative mind sets or negative situations that result in negative results and more negative energy being produced - the entity sucks all this up and is sustained - the energy also travels up through a hierachy.

These entities generally are being steered by one of two main hierachies, either Luciferian or Satanism, each of which demonstrates their own characteristics, although there are other types of beings, including ETs and the like.

Normally the first entity that will show through is what is known as an earth bound entity (EBE) - a classic example of how this works is with a drug habit - people with a heroin habit would likely attract an EBE that had died of an overdose - the entity will latch on to the person with the heroin addiction because of the matching energies (negative resonance fields) - the same applies for alcoholism and a very wide range of general emotional or mental issues be it envy, greed, jealousy etc etc. In the case of the heroin addict the entity will perpetuate the use of heroin with obvious results. The afflicted becomes a walking battery.

It does not normally end with the removal of an EBE - behind the EBE there often sits a Dark Force Entity (DFE), and he or she is normally the bottom rung of a very wide and very deep hierachy of increasingly powerful DFE's that the facilitator needs to "bag up", and trace back to the next controller up in the hierachy.

The entities act as amplifiers to the Negative Resonance Fields.

Most EBEs and DFEs sit in the astral, and generally have little if any concept of time. They are also pretty confused and will justify what they are doing as being ok - the process is then to remind them of where they came from, show them that what they are doing is not okay and then offer them an alternative - the alternative being Light.
Most EBEs when they have a glimpse of the Light, almost always immediately return to the light.

The same can be said of the DFEs who are in effect the "controllers" - they have been taught that "Light will burn", "light is terrible" and they suffer long periods of torture and pain and suffering from those higher up in the hierachy should they dare even question what they are doing etc etc - many of them are not that intellectually challenged and it is often a case of putting a Light net around them (In the astral) and then gradually exposing them to some Light at which point they see that Light does not burn etc etc and that they have been lied to, and they then make the voluntary choice of going back to the Light.

The further up the hierachy you go the more intelligent and aware the DFEs generally are and the more persuasion is required. None of this kind of work is done without assistance on the "other side" and there is a lot of training involved - these beings will immediately exploit any fears or Neg Res Fields that the facilitator has and it can get extremely frightening at times with a lot of extreme energy violations and in some cases what you may recognise as poltergeist activity.

So my point is that no matter how dark, how evil some beings can be, they all originally stemmed from the Light and have Light within them and I believe that the same would be for an OP, should such a being exist.

I read back through this and see that I have not done a great job of explaining it, but I hope it serves to illustrate the point.

The Light and the Process is facilitated through Unconditional Love and I have never seen it fail yet.

Regards

JT

Just seen your reply Montalk:

   A.  Repeated acts that could lead to arrest.

    B.  Conning for pleasure or profit,  repeated lying,  or the use of aliases.

    C.  Failure to plan ahead or being impulsive.

    D.  Repeated assaults on others.

    E.  Reckless when it comes to their or others safety.

    F.  Poor work behavior or failure to honor financial obligations.

    G.  Rationalizing the pain they inflict on others.




Have we not all done varying extremes of the above and rationalised it as being ok?

Think of the worst lie you have told in your life, where you have lied like a used car salesman, knowing s ³mewhere inside that it was wrong and yet justifying it in your mind as being ok!

I hold my hands up - I admit to having mostly done all of the above in varying extremes throughout my life.

Regards

JT

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Re: A Demons Perspective

JT wrote:

Have we not all done varying extremes of the above and rationalised it as being ok?

Think of the worst lie you have told in your life, where you have lied like a used car salesman, knowing s ³mewhere inside that it was wrong and yet justifying it in your mind as being ok!

Yes, I have, and most people have at one time or another told a lie or rationalized. But this doesn't make us psychopaths. The term "psychopath" which the demons said describe their behavior is an extreme term not to be used lightly.

What defines a psychopath is the [/i]inability[/i] to feel empathy and the consistent rationalizing of pain inflicted upon others, as well as compulsive lying - not an occasional lack of empathy or an occasional rationalization or an occasional lie.

The point of my post was to question whether what the demons said at alloya.com was proportional to their true nature. You mentioned SRT therapy - if you read any work on exorcism or SRT (Baldwin's books, for example) you can see that even in a nonphysical state, demons are very cunning and charming, good at rationalizing their actions and lying their way out of anything. Only when cornered and forces of light are called upon to remove them from a patient do they retreat. And if they immediately turn belly up in an SRT session and say they're leaving, one wonders whether they are merely bluffing. In many such cases, the patient feels free of the attachment but soon after treatment it comes back, indicating it never left to begin with.

I understand that demons have a place in the macrocosmic scheme of things, that they do have reasons for doing what they do. But when it comes to us interacting with them and expecting honest answers, I'm uncomfortable with the idea that they would respond totally frankly. They're always looking for an opportunity to advance their cause in the most cunning of ways, which is why they are legion to the Prince of Lies after all, so posing as victims and common sufferers along with the rest of us in this 3D world would be to their benefit.

However, I don't exclude the possibility that the alloya.com statement comes from someone from the extreme STS polarity who has decided to switch polarities. The switch requires some 3D incarnation to work through the process of using one's highly polarized negative energy and flipping it into positive. But, if this is true, then these cases are rare compared to the majority of demons, meaning this perspective which tugs at our heart strings may not apply to the demonic hierarchy in general.

To add one last point, if STS is imbalance and STO is balance, then surely STO evolution would require an integration of the dark and light halves of oneself, both the Self and the Shadow. It would require a complete understanding of the dark half of oneself, and the inner nature, rationale, and placement of the archetypal STS being in the general scheme of things.

In other words, STO isn't about thinking love and light and ignoring the dark and the shadow, but understanding and integrating those under the command of the divine aspect of oneself. A prejudist and ignorant type of "separation" mentality would prevent this, so rather than ignoring the dark it's essential to understand it - though not to the exclusion of the light, as that would be equally as imbalanced. I think anyone who chooses to move toward STO does so because he has gone through enough of the gammut of STS existence to understand the dark and therefore make this choice.

So the statement at alloya.com can help towards this end, though I find the seeming honesty in that statement paradoxically and therefore suspiciously contrary to what the demons themselves said about their true nature being that of psychopathy.

I don't know...could demons really be that honest in this one example, and devious in all other cases as experience by many has shown? I mean, they are the leaders of a movement and agenda that even the psychopathic and lying NWO elite are subservient to, so following the trend upward it seems even if they are honest, they may not be truthful due to the isolated and delusional nature of their self-serving existence. Like a blackhole - it's a bubble of spacetime detached from the rest of the universe, one way flow in - nothing comes out - the ultimate form of imbalance - though still necessary to functioning of the universe.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website

6 Reply by BlackBox

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Re: A Demons Perspective

JT wrote:

So my point is that no matter how dark, how evil some beings can be, they all originally stemmed from the Light and have Light within them and I believe that the same would be for an OP, should such a being exist.

I share this particular opinion JT. In one of my posts I discussed ethereal composition of STO and STS in all beings. In STS-entities, the STS elements dominate over the STO which, on earth, are at dismal levels.

Like if a person had 30% STO in his ethereal-composition on earth, I would consider he or she a saint. The majority of people are much lower than this, in my opinion (under 5-10% STO) and that is why STS prevails heavily in realism. STO is idealistic because it is not applied due to its submissive nature in this environment. But our will can change anything we wish to change, including the levels of STO and STS in our composition.

My body, for instance, has become much lighter since exploring these avenues of modifying that which many think is unbendable. Reality is plastic and our thoughts can create angular effects that can mold our realities.

Thanks for your thoughts on this particular idea.

It presents the case on the human-condition and enhancing our awareness to our options. However it does not negate the issue we are presenting with OP's. Organic Portals are, no doubt, composed of STO elements, yet what makes them different from adamics is their inaccesability to the higher-centers. They are doomed to rely on the human intellectual-center because that is the highest form of intelligence they hold. They are not grounded to what exists OUTSIDE of logic.

7 Reply by JT

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Re: A Demons Perspective

Hi,

You write "And if they immediately turn belly up in an SRT session and say they're leaving, one wonders whether they are merely bluffing. In many such cases, the patient feels free of the attachment but soon after treatment it comes back, indicating it never left to begin with".

Entities do not just leap onto people for no reason - when doing this kind of work there are two areas 1) The resolution of the Negative Resonance Field (ongoing) and 2) The removal of the entity that uses the Neg Res Field.

In a typical series of sessions, both are dealt with, however with the the Negative Resonance Field, it is wholly up to the afflicted person to allow healing to take place here (many on a subconcious level suprisingly do not fully allow this) and then to continue to allow that healing in all that they think, say and do and unfortunately this is not often the case. The second part of the session involves the removal of the entity which is relatively straight forward. The root of the problem as to why the entity is there in the first place often becomes clear in a session.

In my experience, it is not the case that the same entity will return -  What actually happens is that a negative resonance field still exists, or has not been completely resolved. In many cases the afflicted person feels free /born again/totally elated for a good 2-4 weeks after such a session (they get their energy back :-D) and then starts to repeat old patterns again and thus they become vulnerable to a new entity.

The person that I learnt SRT from was trained in part by Bill Baldwin, and she has continued over the last 15 years or so to evolve her methods with energy clearing and energy raising and some great methods for completely clearing Negative Resonance Fields - this goes a long way towards ensuring that the afflicted person is not vulnerable to the same types of entities in the same way.

Bill Baldwin is a recognised pioneer in this field, though this field continues to evolve and you are quite right in stating that entities return, and this was definately the case in the early days of SRT and with many practitioners this continues to be the case.

Also when doing this work, one does not expect honest answers and these entities often bluff as you rightly state - and this is a part of the ongoing dialogue and degree of persuasion that is required.

I often work with a combination of pendulum and guidance to determine whether an entity is lying to me or not (I have not had the pendulum or guidance give me a contradictory answer so far) - it is not particularly hard to get an entity to contradict himself, tie himself up in verbal knots and thus be exposed - they are normally very arrogant and sure of themselves until the rug is pulled out from under their feet and they are exposed.

From what I have seen and experienced to date the place of these entities within the macrocosm and on a 3d/4d level is extensive, and I believe Bill Baldwin at one point stated that some 60 - 70% of the population have them - whilst this must be statistically impossible to determine I can only say from my own view that they are everywhere within us and without us.

Beaming love and light at them in a  "ching ching, all open your heart chakras please and have a group hug method" is not the approach that is used - the light is an incredibly powerful force and the person facilitating the work is purely a channel for that force to do its work.

Once an entity is in a light net, has been exposed to the light, feels reasonably safe and secure and protected from the dark side, then in most occasions this is where the breakthrough and truth starts to come and finally the return to the light.

Regards

JT

  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: A Demons Perspective

JT wrote:

Also when doing this work, one does not expect honest answers and these entities often bluff as you rightly state - and this is a part of the ongoing dialogue and degree of persuasion that is required.

I often work with a combination of pendulum and guidance to determine whether an entity is lying to me or not (I have not had the pendulum or guidance give me a contradictory answer so far) - it is not particularly hard to get an entity to contradict himself, tie himself up in verbal knots and thus be exposed - they are normally very arrogant and sure of themselves until the rug is pulled out from under their feet and they are exposed.

My experience and handling of entities has been quite different.  The main difference is "ongoing dialogue" which I do not do at all.  I try to treat most entities, not meanly or with disdain, but  politely nevertheless firmly, with the intention to detach itself from me, with the idea (from me) that it recognizes it is not me, but it's own being.  This works with most.

However, some entities are extremely malevolent, hidden and difficult.  Those I usually handle with the type of technique mentioned by JT or Tom with a (mental) lasar, sword...whatever.

I've found that dialogue with an entity is wrose than fruitless, it can lead one down a long garden path into the bamble bush.  Better, I've found, to simply acknowledge the entity by mentally encouraging it to go.  Most will.

What makes sense to me is that entities are rather frail beings, having been attached by whatever means to a "functioning-in-the-world" being and to engage in dialogue is pointless - other than to acknowledge their existence.  Keeping in mind that some entities have been attached for many many lifetimes and therefore their OWN experiential existence is next to zero, to what purpose is a dialogue?

Anti-social and pychopathic entities, I believe, should definitely not be "trusted" even when exposed to light for the simple reason that they have had possibly endless lifetimes "in the dark side" and therefore have no EXPERIENCE on how to act as a social being.  Better to wish them well and allow them to get on with the hard work of acting daily as a social being.

JT, perhaps I do not understand the SRT sessions you are involved in and I understand it's very difficult to explain it on a message board.  I'm sure that the work you do is extremely valuable to you and others and beneficial.

I simply didn't want others, perhaps not educated in the techniques you use, to start engaging conversations with whichever entities they may perceive as part of their etheric/or physical body as this can actually be a dicey thing.

Christine B.

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Re: A Demons Perspective

Hi Christine B -

I think your ideas (and montalk's) are by far the most sensible in how to deal with this stuff.   You adequately summed up the way I think these things should be handled.   I have zero personal experience in having SRT or any sort of neg attachment stuff done, but I've read up on it and have dealt with negative "free roaming" entities (for lack of a better way to describe them!)   I just don't think there should be a dialogue with these things, and anything that would be considered a "demon" NEEDS to go, period, do not engage in discussion with it, don't listen to it, don't pass go and don't collect your $200.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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lyra's Website

10 Reply by JT

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Re: A Demons Perspective

I think there is a degree of misunderstanding here.

The points that I have been trying to make all along are:

a) all beings originally stem from the light, irrespective of dark they have become or not.

a1) If not then we have to accept that some degrees of darkness are ok and some are not - that only slight psychopathic tendencies are ok, but fully psycopathic is not ok, and I cannot sign up to this - it is judgemental and noone has the right to judge anyone.

I fully support methods of generating knowledge and awareness as as a means of defence for those that attract such people into their lives, even if this is only a temporary measure. The attraction will often happen due to negative resonance fields and various entities attached and amplifying these fields, thus I have covered very superficially SRT in order to make this point.

b) much of the thread relating to the matter of OP's leads to increased seperateness and wholly judgemental rationals.

c) that there is a tendency to see OPs around every corner

d) that discernment is not being effectively practiced leading to increasing illusion and the consequences thereof.

e) that one is not born a psychopath, and most people if not all demonstrate, or have demonstrated psychopathic tendencies in their lives and are mostly blind to the fact that they continue to do so to some degree or another.

By including this thread I was my hope to illustrate further some of these points.

In no way am I suggesting that anyone, without the correct training and experience even tries to deal with entities on their own and the material provided does not provide anyone with a means of doing so.

How anyone chooses to filter and perceive this material is entirely their own choice.

Finally: The need for "dialogue" and giving the entity a choice respects Freewill - removal of of entities by any means that does not repect Freewill is STS and this I cannot condone

Regards

JT

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Re: A Demons Perspective

JT wrote:

e) that one is not born a psychopath, and most people if not all demonstrate, or have demonstrated psychopathic tendencies in their lives and are mostly blind to the fact that they continue to do so to some degree or another.

I'm not sure that I agree with this.  There are, sadly, some who are born psychopaths or anti-social (which I am equating as words for simplicity sake).  If you've ever taught a group of children, as in nursery school, you will have experienced that some young kids show anti-social behavior that is amazing at such a young age.  They have siblings who are very social, so one cannot "blame" their parents or environment.

Perhaps when you say "born" you mean at the first spark of existence?  Then perhaps, I would agree with your statement.

As for most of us demonstrating psychopathic behavior in our lives, I believe that Tom has covered this already, but to add my two bits...I've met no one this lifetime who is perfect.  Therefore, those times they/me/you are less than perfect I suppose it would be psychotic behavior (anything that is contrary to optimum survival).  To say that this means we have "tendencies" is to discount the discipline MOST people exhibit and therefore do not fall into behaving in a psychotic way.

An anti-social personality is quite a different thing to someone who at times, under stress, lack of food/sleep, behaves poorly or even very badly.  An anti-social personality behaves overtly or covertly badly ALL the time.  This doesn't mean they cannot ACT as if they are a nice person.

I learned the extremely hard way that engaging in dialogue with an anti-social personality in the HOPES that if I am nice and kind, funny or not, they will like me and therefore not try to hurt me, my business, my family or whatever is pointless.  The anti-social personality sadly, very sadly, does NOT respond to kindness, treatment, therapy.  And trying to engage them, will only drain me.

Better to be fully aware of the characteristics of this personality - be it "in the flesh" or an entity...so that I can not be lulled into thinking they have my best interests at heart.  They do not.

They are parasitic - and as any parasite feed off their host to the extreme detriment of the host.

I prefer to not be a host.

If this is STS, so be it.  That is the way this realm appears to be rigged.  But, if I err on the side of not being a willing host, perhaps I gain on the side of being ALIVE so that I might be able to communicate to those who WANT to get better, become more awake and help others.

I must say JT, that when you say things like "How anyone chooses to filter and perceive this material is entirely their own choice" comes across as still very make wrongy.  There is actually no need for that caveat of yours.  We are all here in agreement that we make our own choices.

Let's see if we can do the UNUSUAL on a message board and NOT get into - you wrong, I'm right.
You icky, me smart.

This would be the miracle perhaps all of us would welcome.

It's a question, I believe, in pacing, phrasing and syntax which can come across very harshly and forceful or gently but with conviction.

I've observed Tom's interaction which at times blows my mind (sorry Tom to bring up the age bit but holy moly) at how wise he can be so young, how he speaks with conviction, isn't namby-pamby
but won't allow certain elements onto the board.  It's very inspirational and something I strive for.

I have very little REAL understanding of freewill as practiced by 4D and higher beings.  I do not believe we in 3D have a real inkling of freewill.  It's not the simple - do I wear a red dress or blue one.  Do I let him get hit by the car or do I yell "watch out". 

So, for me to say that I violate the freewill of someone when I chose to exclude him/her from my life before I consult with their desire to be removed from my life...gosh, I just don't know.

BUT, it just doesn't have a ring of sanity or truth to me. 

More to learn, no doubt.

Christine B.

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Re: A Demons Perspective

JT,

In rereading your last post I can see that the main thrust of your post was to illustrate what you found to be seperative behavior with regards to the OP thread/discussion.

I have to agree with you on that to this degree:  while I am unsure of OP's as a "fact", I am open to their existence.  I am sure of anti-social personalities as a fact (to me). Yet,  I am, as you are, leery and cautious about calling anyone this or that...and thusly treating them disdainfully.

I believe that too few people, myself included at times, are able to be so detached from their own buttons to be able to really determine if someone is an OP or anti-social.

It's all to easy to say:  he treated me poorly, his abused me as a boss, he's anti-social.  Wash my hands of my responsibility and bye bye.

That said, I believe, again it comes back again to discernment.  And is not judgmental. 

Buddha said it is better to walk alone, than walk with fools.

Is this not a judgment that some are fools?

Same I think could be said for walking with OPs or the anti-social.  But, first one must be able to tell who is who.

Or must I  become so politically correct that I  must embrace those who would (at this POINT, in their existence) do everything they could to STOP me from walking?

Christine B.

13 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2004-05-17 08:46:40)

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Re: A Demons Perspective

JT wrote:

a) all beings originally stem from the light, irrespective of dark they have become or not.

I agree, and think / hope that this is the case. 

JT wrote:

  a1)   If not then we have to accept that some degrees of darkness are ok and some are not - that only slight psychopathic tendencies are ok, but fully psycopathic is not ok, and I cannot sign up to this - it is judgemental and noone has the right to judge anyone.

Sorry, don't agree with you here.   Here's where there seems to be a slight disinformation spin happening.   You say a bunch of good stuff, then, slip in this whole bit about "Some degrees of darkness / slight psychopathic tendancies are ok" -- which if fine, okay, whatever, BUT -- you then take that and use it to try to make us be accepting of these demons for (supposedly) being just extreme versions of ourselves.    THAT'S where I disagree with you.    On top of it, the way to get away with saying such things is the follow it immediately with that whole "noone has the right to judge anyone!" tactic, which you employed.   That's a manipulative tactic designed to instill guilt, to ensure that nobody here disagrees with you and if they do, they will be made to feel guilty for "judging" others.   

You judge people every day, all the time, and don't tell me you don't.   Everytime you meet someone new you form some sort of judgement about that person, good or bad, based on their appearance, behavior, and the vibe they give off to you.  You decide either right then and there or later down the line whether you will choose to keep that person in your life, and that decision is based on a judgement.  So how is that any different from "judging" those to be trouble makers, energy drainers, and time wasters, then removing them from your life?   We all judge in some form or another.  It's the way of life here in 3rd.   We're placed in a position where we have to constantly judge the people around us because we've essentially been tossed together in this zoo, forced to navigate our way around.   If you don't judge and make judgments / assessments of the people you are forced to share space with, you can / will become prey.  And as we all know...........allowing yourself to be prey is in itself, STS.   


JT wrote:

   b) much of the thread relating to the matter of OP's leads to increased seperateness and wholly judgemental rationals.

You seem to be advocating keeping the trouble making, energy draining, time wasting people in our lives out of fear of "Separation", "division", "judgemental rationals", and because "we're all a part of the light!"    Yes, we are all children of the light, but there's your disinformation twist, yet again..........start out telling us something that's true, ie, we're all of the Light, then twist that around for a fallacious conclusion, ie, "therefore, don't separate yourselves".    X!  Wrong.

So, separation..........?   Absolutely.    Remove trouble making, energy draining, time wasting, resource sucking influences from your life.   Whether these influences are in fact "OP's", or "soulless" or just wounded souled people isn't the issue.   The fact is,  if they cause trouble and suck your time and energy, get rid of them.   BUH bye.   This has already clearly been stated multiple times here, so I'm not sure what part of that isn't making sense. 

And just to be totally clear here, I don't advocate hate, anger, genocide, persecution, or purposely "going after" someone for being negative or troublesome.   Just firmly remove these negative influences out of your life because they will drag you down and suck your energy and time.    If you don't agree or understand this, then I don't know what else to tell you at this point. 


JT wrote:

   c) that there is a tendency to see OPs around every corner

Not with me there isn't.   And I don't see that with anybody else here, so, really, speak for yourself.

JT wrote:

   d) that discernment is not being effectively practiced leading to increasing illusion and the consequences thereof.

Not with me.   Not sure about the others, so again you really have to speak for yourself here.

JT wrote:

  e)  that one is not born a psychopath, and most people if not all demonstrate, or have demonstrated psychopathic tendencies in their lives and are mostly blind to the fact that they continue to do so to some degree or another.

Okay......................I can't argue with you here because you could very well be right, although, you can't presume to know the behaviors of over 6 billion people on the planet, you just can't.   But regardless, I'm sure many of us have been less than stellar in our actions at some point.   I know I have, I admit it totally.   HOWEVER......what I have a problem with is how you take this assessment and then use it to try to slip in the agenda that we should all cut the demons a little slack.   THAT I don't aree with.   It's taking something with a bit of truth and twisting it around.


JT wrote:

   Finally: The need for "dialogue" and giving the entity a choice respects Freewill - removal of of entities by any means that does not repect Freewill is STS and this I cannot condone

Sorry, but this is nuts.    An entity who doesn't respect YOUR freewill by attaching itself to you against your will doesn't doesn't get a "choice".     If somebody came up to you in public and suddenly latched themselves onto your leg, or clamped their teeth down on your arm and didn't let go would you "engage in dialogue" and "ask" them to leave???   "I'm sorry sir, but could you kindly remove your teeth from my arm, it smarts....."

"NO!"

"I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to ask you again to please detach yourself from my arm sir, this can't be very healthy sir........"

"NO!!"

"Alright, well, um, okay, let's discuss this then sir, maybe we can work out a deal......"

Or would you just detach them from you?!?!   "Get off my arm!"

Same thing.   

I don't know, that's just how I'm seeing it here.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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lyra's Website

14 Reply by JT (edited by JT 2004-05-17 09:12:02)

  • JT
  • Member
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  • Registered: 2004-05-11

Re: A Demons Perspective

Hi Christine,

This is the second post that I have apologised on :-D due to the fact that the way I come over in a post is somehow provocative, or my pace, phrase or syntax not appropriate - so my apologies as this is really not my intention.

I have the highest respect for all pioneers here, whether I agree with them or not - I am here to learn and to pass on what I have learnt.

I see all these posts as healthy debate, and at times people will have different opinions or communicate improperly or are misunderstood, which then requires further clarification of the original point - more so because there is no body language or similar to interpret.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the anti-socialism of young children - I have not taught at Kindergarten, but my daughter is still at Kindergarten and it is amazing to watch the group dynamics at play. Though as far as I am concerned a childs anti-socialism is everything to do with the childs Primary Authority Figures in life, be it parents, grandparents or Kindergarten teachers.

It has been demonstrated enough times the most formative age for a child is from 1-6 years old, though they are still highly impressionable from 6 yrs old to adulthood.
Children learn from these authority figures in life what it is to be a human being and how to act in any number of circumstances and they also learn through a process of enculteration in the wider society and from the media.

Something about the fathers sins being vested upon the sons comes to mind but I hope you see where I am coming from.

Many of the mistakes that parents pass on to their children are incredibly subtle forms of manipulation and ways of being and are completely unatural - do you see jealousy, hate and humiliation taking place in nature?

One of the core things that parents do is the "witholding of love" insofar as - "If you dont do the following I will withold my love" (implied) and this is used as a primary carrot and stick discipline technique, which can be very damaging to a child at such a young age. Where families or parents are dysfunctional, which many are to varying degrees then the child learns these methods accordingly.

Earlier in this post when I have spoken of dealing with anti-social personalities I am speaking purely on the non physical level - sorry for any confusion - I agree with Montalk and most of you in general with regards to how generally to deal with such personalities in the physical although I maintain these are mainly a) temporary measures and b) OPs and the like are attracted to individuals due to the individuals own negative resonance fields.

I do happen to think that many cases, of anti-socialism in the physical are remote controlled, that is to say by entities in other dimensions, and excessively so by those that demonstrate severe OP symptoms.

When someone is overtired, stressed, has a lack of food they are also at their most susceptible to the entities I have already mentioned which will "amplify" and existing Negative Resonance Field.

I am definately not suggesting you violate anyones freewill when you choose to ignore anti-social people in your life, be they OPs or not.

However when removing an entity from the energy body there has to be a freewill choice made by the entity to go to the light - they cannot be forced to go there.
If they end up anywhere else apart from the light, then they may have been successfully removed from the afflicted person, BUT they are free again to roam the astral, attach themselves to the next unwilling victim in the physical, and this perpetuates the problem. Apart from that the Negative Resonance Field needs to be resolved or one is open to further abuse from different entities at a later date.

So yes - there is a significant d ­fference as to how one deals with an "anti-social" in the physical and how one can deal with an "anti-social" in the non-physical - BUT -  I just dont happen to see them as disconnected phenomena - I see them as connected phenomena.

The anti-social in the hyperdimensions controls the anti-social in the physical dimensions - ie Remote Control.

If I am wrong, about anything that I have written about so far, then I gladly will take this on board and continue to learn - it is far important to me to increase my knowledge, than it is to maintain a defensive stance over my opinions just to save my ego from some loss of face - If I choose to remain locked into my opinion, irrespective of logic and common sense that demonstrates otherwise, then all I am doing is caving in to another "unreal fear".

And this is why I made the post.

Regards

JT

Edited for clarity.

15 Reply by BlackBox (edited by BlackBox 2004-05-17 17:58:38)

  • BlackBox
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Re: A Demons Perspective

Hey JT,

Your descriptions are refreshing. You are definately a unique individual in regards to your outlook.

JT wrote:

a) all beings originally stem from the light, irrespective of dark they have become or not.

It's great to look at it this way, but isn't this a preference of perspective? Can't this sentence be reversed to also that say all light stems from the dark? Is it really important to state that all things root from the light? I think objectively speaking, the negative gives birth to the positive and vice-versa. For those who are of the light, it is important to understand that their perspective is biased to prefer the light. But there are an equal number of those in the dark that prefer manipulation via chaos and vampiristic methods. This is natural for them just like networking via uncorrupted information is to light-workers.

I just think it's important to omit that we are biased when we say things like that. I think we gain a much stronger ground when we admit this and understand that pain gives birth to pleasure. Everything is necessary. If we took away the dark, the light would cease to exist.

I guess that's pretty obvious 99% of the readers on this board, but I thought it important to state it again.

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In regards to children: When we are birthed into physical bodies, (1) amnesia occurs which is basically "formatting" of our immediate memories. It is not deleted but rather stored in our cells. (2) We begin physical existence transitioning from states-of-awareness. We begin at Delta, transition to Theta (languages and primary psychological systems etc), transition to Alpha (infancy to young children/teens) and then as we transition towards Adulthood, we tend to focus on Beta.

Notice that in adult-life we access these states in the reverse order.

Now this connects to why it is important for parents to show love and light to their children at these precious times. Damaging effects can occur from lack of. The child may have the ability/strength to break these negative effects later on in life, but nonetheless it would be very beneficial for parents to avoid these planted obstacles in the first place. They are unaware as they are only looping through the same cycle of parent/child that they grew up from.

I believe we are all composed of light-matter and dark-matter, literally. The more karma we hold and problematic programming, the more dark substance we have. The more karma we alleviate, the more white substance enters our bodies. This follows the teachings of Falun Gong/Dafa. People who pursue lives of bettering themselves, are pursueing symbolically the life of exerting out black substance and therefore opening that space for white substance. People who do this clear up their energy blockages and even the third-eye opens up given dedication, discipline and perseverance. Again, I know many here already know these things and I apologize if it's boring.

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JT wrote:

   b) much of the thread relating to the matter of OP's leads to increased seperateness and wholly judgemental rationals.

Rather we want to have the information on the table so that we can simply be aware. Most of us, light-workers, need to realize that life is like sailing through an ocean of knowledge, experience, and people that is powered by the discernment of our mind-intent (the wind). Whatever assumptions we hold that are not true have effects on our course in life. Obstacles hit us, signs that we are in need to learn specific lessons that we are blind to. If we didn't have false assumptions, we would sail exactly to our desires and goals.

I can't speak for everyone, but I judge here on the forum so that I gain the knowledge + awarness to discern my sails to the path I desire. I do not intend to hit the same obstacles twice. That is stagnation on the learning curve. Stagnation to our progress and stagnation to our purpose.

JT wrote:

c) that there is a tendency to see OPs around every corner.

Some may do this. But they will hit obstacles if they judge prematurely and inaccurately. No one is perfect. Some will be wise right from the bat (which indicates past life successful learning) while others will need time to make mistakes. Learning to be aware doesn't necessarily mean this type of ignorance will occur, but it may.

JT wrote:

d) that discernment is not being effectively practiced leading to increasing illusion and the consequences thereof.

Perhaps JT. But maybe not. It depends on the person and their views. If they can observe themselves, they can not make such mistakes. We can't assume such things. Everyone has a different accumulation of experiences. It is good for you to bring this up, because even that could allow some of us to NOT make such mistakes and set ourselves adrift to illusions and their consequences (ie. obstacles).

JT wrote:

e)  that one is not born a psychopath, and most people if not all demonstrate, or have demonstrated psychopathic tendencies in their lives and are mostly blind to the fact that they continue to do so to some degree or another.

There are many different modes of attack for adamics. Some may be dark-beings intending to simply distract light-workers from transmuting their very bodies into light-bodies. If this occurs and the dark-beings fail, the amount of knowledge that is released into this person can have detrimental effects on the dark-elements on this planet (hence the Golden Age). The domino effect of one exalted being can make a difference that is very complex, yet very vital to the entire Universe. One person can have effects on many. Many can have effects everything. Now some people who have these diverting-tactics in their purpose may be OP's, or possessed adamics, or whatever. It doesn't matter. It matters for us to be able to be aware and discern from one mode to the other. If we judge by assumptions, there lies our mistakes. But if we are aware and observe, the truth will always reveal itself.

JT wrote:

Finally: The need for "dialogue" and giving the entity a choice respects Freewill - removal of of entities by any means that does not repect Freewill is STS and this I cannot condone.

Yes I agree. But we have the free-will to avoid what we wish to avoid. That which is not of our frequency resonance vibration, has no value to us except to be aware of. Being aware of it is accepting it. Anything more is not the responsibility of one individual. We can only care for ourselves and be aware of the vibration we emit. Once we do this, the effects we have electromagnetically to everything we come across will lead us to further our progress on the learning curve.

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You bring up good points. But we are all learning here and if we keep an open-mind and set our purpose to that of gaining awareness rather than assumptions, we are sailing to our marked paths.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Namaste.

(Edited some mistakes but I'll leave the rest alone)