• From: Peru
  • Registered: 2004-08-06

Topic: Terri Schiavo

I rarely ever get angry or upset at things I hear on the news these days. I learnt a long time ago that if you get angry at every injustice in the world you become a constant seething wreck. So I've learnt to detach myself from the vast majority of it.

However the case of Terri Schiavo, particularly in view of todays developments, has left my blood close to boiling point.

Today, on the orders of a Florida judge, Terri's feeding tube has been removed so that she will now starve to death, which is an agonising process that could 1 to 2 weeks.

Nevermind the fact a noble prize winning doctor has said she can be rehabilitated http://www.rense.com/general63/tshav.htm or that she has two loving parents who are desperate to take responsibility for her life and care for her, or that she definitely IS NOT in any kind of coma, or that she can understand and respond to people http://www.rense.com/general63/vvo.htm and laugh and giggle http://www.rense.com/general63/redgi.htm.

No, nevermind any of that. Her exhusband wants her dead and so an american judge has ruled in his favor and now she will starve to death. Just think about that, an American judge has ordered a living, breathing human being, whose only 'crime' is to be braindamaged, to painfully starve to death. http://www.nbc10.com/news/4298822/detail.html

I just don't understand how that can be allowed to happen. I'm just stunned. I just hope that this helps to wake a few more people up, although I'm not holding my breath.

Andy

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Ayahuasca's Website

2 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2005-03-18 18:48:57)

  • lyra
  • lyra
  • Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
  • Offline
  • From: my own private idaho
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Terri Schiavo

Yes, I've been thinking about this a lot lately myself.   What did it for me was finally watching the video that can be found at Rense.com and Prison Planet, showing Terry interacting with her mom.   Oh my lord.  It was NOTHING like the media had been portraying.   When the Terry Schiavo story first came to my attention in 2002 I didn't pay any attention to it.   But it was in the news so often that finally I started to read what the gist was.   Still, I was detached, and believed what was being reported....that Terry was a comatose vegetable.    Only recently have I learned otherwise, and I am just STUNNED that this case has gone on as long as it as and sunk to the depths that it has.   She is NOT a comatose vegetable.  She's braindamaged....yes.  But she's conscious!   And responsive!!!!!!!!!!     This morning at lunch it was on the t.v. and I did something I normally don't do......I paused in my eating, closed my eyes and put out an intent / prayer / whatever you want to call it.   It was so upseting to hear about the feeding tube removal after seeing the video.  They're murdering a conscious, living woman.    If we shot somebody on the street, it would be murder and we'd be locked up for life.    Michael Schiavo beats his wife into a brain damaged stupor in an attempt to kill her and the courts order her to be removed from her feeding tube........and this isn't murder????   Am I MISSING something here????!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!     I've been pondering that there is some major higher battle going on here, beyond whatever we're seeing.  There's some higher force at work, some big time karma batttle going on.  There's just NO other way to explain the fact that Michael has gotten away with what he did, or the fact that Terry's video footage has been so suppressed, and the Courts have just given the smackdown to this case at EVERY turn.  It's like something negative is just BENT on having this woman killed.    WHY????   There is NOTHING logical about this case whatsover.    Why is it so difficult to give the woman's parents their own daughter?!?!?   All they want is to have their own daughter, at home, getting rehabilitation therapy.    What is so bad and wrong about that??   Why is somebody saying no...and most importantly....................what gives them the right to say no?

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website

3 Reply by Auendove (edited by Auendove 2005-03-19 08:15:01)

  • From: terra incognita
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Terri Schiavo

I live only 30 mins. from where Terri Schiavo is in Pinellas Park. The Terri Schiavo right-to-life case has regularly been in our daily, weekly, monthly news for a number of years now.

About a year and half ago, at one of the times in the past when they've pulled her feeding tube, I went to lunch with a friend I hadn't seen for a while. Immediatly following sitting down my friend began ranting about Terri Schiavo and about how it's just not right. I was sitting there shaking my head agreeing with her, but I was a little surprised by the level of spitefullness in her voice. After her making a number of comments I could agree with, because they were "blanket" types of statements, she told me she had sent Michael Schiavo an email of surpport... and I suddenly realized she and I weren't talking about the same thing. I was very surprised. She then realized as much as well. We didn't mention it again, but the rest of the lunch was awkard.

The breadth of polarization this case has created is parted by a deep, deep chasm. I heard on the morning news that there is a movement forming among protesters, Schiavo supporters, to basically "go in" and spirit her out of there, and I saw the picture of the protesters that's shown in the msnbc link below. It's a very powerful photo.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7212079/

What I'm seeing on the news is looking like a growing radical zealism, and frankly, looks to me like a riot in the making. All those religious and right-to-life protestors are a "breed" unto themselves when they're in heightened states of energetic vibration, and I wonder if they're doing more harm than good... because to me they now look  like ripening fruit for a loosh feast. I guess it's the only way though... FCOL! just how in the hell does one man, Michael Schiavo, based on a statement by Terri, an oral contract no less, not a single thing in writing, override ALL else that has followed?

Given the emotional nature of this case I think that is an excellent question.

As it would be, I've just watched Michael Schiavo being interviewed. When asked about what he thinks about all the people that oppose his insistence to her being taken off life support, his response to was--

"They're only seeing what they want to see."

Seems like the pot calling the kettle black to me.

He sees only the vegatative Terri, others are seeing everything else as well, including a responsive Terri Schiavo.

Did you guys know that about a week ago a San Diego business man offered Schiavo one million dollars to sign over gaurdianship to Terri's parents? He refused.

This is the latest update just posted, it's a good, succinct article--

http://www.nbc10.com/news/4297126/detail.html

From the article--

Michael Schiavo wrote:

"This is what Terri wanted. This is her wish," the husband said late Friday, making his first comments after the tube removal on CNN's "Larry King Live." He said he was angry that "government has just trampled all over my personal life."

roll



I'm really trying to keep my emotions in check on this one, but when I think about her feeding tube having been forecably removed, and the implications of that... it literally makes me sick to my stomach. It is disgusting.

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol
  • From: terra incognita
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Terri Schiavo

BOO! this man Michael Schiavo.... BOO! BOO! BOO! him.

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol

5 Reply by Alushe (edited by Alushe 2005-03-19 15:32:13)

  • Alushe
  • Guest

Re: Terri Schiavo

http://www.signsfromheaven.com/

It details the story of a young jewish girl withbrain damage who can apparently speak to "Angels" and God. The website also goes on to state that people in such braindead states have complete access to higher sources of knowledge but are unable to express it because of their disorders.

Galia wrote:

“Tell everyone that we brain-damaged people are human beings like everyone else. We have needs and we very much want people to treat us with respect, to care about us, and to pay attention to us. We have feelings and we need to be loved and liked just like any normal person. There is a widespread belief that we don’t know anything, but we know everything and understand everything -- in our souls, just not with our intellects. Our souls also get upset when we aren’t given proper treatment. Apart from all this, we suffer terribly because of our handicaps, and we feel terrible about being totally dependent. We also deserve to live respectable lives. All we brain-damaged people are human beings, but everyone forgets that.“

This reminds me of what is written in the Upanishads:

Next follows the Nihsreyasadana (the accepting of the pre-eminence of prana (breath or life) by the other gods). The deities (speech, eye, ear, mind), contending with each for who was the best, went out of this body, and the body lay without. breathing, withered, like a log of wood. Then speech went into it, but speaking by speech, it lay still. Then the eye went into it, but speaking by speech, and seeing by the eye, it lay still. Then the ear went into it, but speaking by speech, seeing by the eye, hearing by the ear, it lay still. Then mind went into it, but speaking by speech, seeing by the eye, hearing by the ear, thinking by the mind, it lay still. Then breath (prana, life) went into it, and thence it rose at once. All these deities, having recognised the pre-eminence in prana, and having comprehended prana alone as the conscious self (pragnatman went out of this body with all these (five different kinds of prana), and resting in the air (knowing that prana had entered the air), and merged in the ether (akasa), they went to heaven. And in the same manner he who knows this, having recognised the pre-eminence in prana, and having comprehended prana alone as the conscious self (pragnatman), goes out of this body with all these (does no longer believe in this body), and resting in the air, and merged in the ether, he goes to heaven, he goes to where those gods (speech, &c.) are. And having reached this he, who knows this, becomes immortal with that immortality which those gods enjoy...

...Man lives deprived of speech, for we see dumb people. Man lives deprived of sight, for we see blind people. Man lives deprived of hearing, for we see deaf people. Man lives deprived of mind, for we see infants. Man lives deprived of his arms, deprived of his legs, for we see it thus. But prana alone is the conscious self (pragnatman), and having laid hold of this body, it makes it rise up. Therefore it is said, Let man worship it alone as uktha. What is prana, that is pragna (self-consciousness); what is pragna (self-consciousness), that is prana, for together they (pragna and prana) live in this body, and together they go out of it. Of that, this is the evidence, this is the understanding. When a man, being thus asleep, sees no dream whatever, he becomes one with that prana alone. Then speech goes to him (when he is absorbed in prana) with all names, the eye with all forms, the ear with all sounds, the mind with all thoughts. And when he awakes, then, as from a burning fire sparks proceed in all directions, thus from that self the pranas (speech, &c.) proceed, each towards its place; from the pranas the gods (Agni, &c.), from the gods the worlds...

...The life of man is divided between waking, dreaming and dreamless sleep. But transending these three states is superconscious vision called the Fourth.

Ramesh Balsekar  wrote:

The "me" is absent and therefore there is no conceptualizing in deep sleep. When conceptualizing starts, the dreaming happens.

Perhaps these people are in this superconscious state, a type of living where they have no sense of self.
They may act as receptors in such a state whereby other entities/personalities can enter them.
Don Juan Matus also mentioned the dreamless sleep.

  • From: terra incognita
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Terri Schiavo

For the thoughtfullness of your post Alushe.... thank you smile .

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol
  • From: Minneapolis, MN
  • Registered: 2005-02-02

Re: Terri Schiavo

This is a compliacted matter and I see both sides of the coin as a legitimate arguement. I know if I were in Terry's situation badly brain damaged and dependant on a machine to keep me alive, I would want to die. Not only because I would be only a shadow of my former self but the huge financial and emotional burden I would be to my family and friends. None of us can know what Terry must feel like, my heart goes out to her. I cant help but think she must feel like a prisioner inside of a badly damaged body with one foot in this life and the other in the afterlife. Maybe her life is not so much for her lessons but to serve as a teacher to those closest to her. No doubt her condition challenges her family in many ways. I dont know, again this is a complex matter. I wonder if anyone has asked Terry if she wants to die?

I do find it horrible that they are going to let her starve to death. Very cruel. If the decision is made to let her go do the humaine thing and give her a quick and painless death. But they wont, helping her like that would open up a whole new can of worms and they wont get there hands dirty assisting her to pass quickly.

8 Reply by Auendove (edited by Auendove 2005-03-22 10:32:07)

  • From: terra incognita
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Terri Schiavo

Fusion wrote:

I do find it horrible that they are going to let her starve to death. Very cruel. If the decision is made to let her go do the humaine thing and give her a quick and painless death.

Exactly.

I'm so not able to empathize with Terri's parents because it's such a hellish thing to do.... to have to sit and watch your own flesh and blood being refused food and water, and not be able to do anything about it? Absolutely gruesome.

Fusion wrote:

But they wont, helping her like that would open up a whole new can of worms and they wont get there hands dirty assisting her to pass quickly.

In some otherwise hardline words--helping her "like that", a lethal injection, would be murder... that's why they won't do it. If a person is breathing, and another takes a course of action to bring an end to that breathing, that's murder.

Fusion wrote:

I wonder if anyone has asked Terry if she wants to die?

Taking into account the subjective nature of what I write, consider this--

I "tapped" into Terri Schiavo, she is at no cognitive level of comprehension to answer this question, there is not even a comprehension level that the youngest of self-aware children will possess... it's as if she has the barest finger tip of cognitive processes in this world. Fundamentally, what I pick up on is a basic relationship with the love her family and supporters pour into her energy field. Mind you, this is not a relating to the family members, even given the evidence she responds to her family members, it's a relating to the energetic frequency of the love, care, and compassion practiced on her behalf. Her's is an extremely gossamer tie to life. She's like an earthbound "ghost" that still has a body.

It's rather hard for me to write this because it does indeed point to how little of her is left in body, and I certainly didn't just make this up to support those who are pushing for her right to die... that's <bleepin'> the last thing I would do.

When not in the mode of "tapping in" I see a living breathing human being. Michael Schiavo et al claims she's "dead", brain dead, but when was the last time anyone of us saw a dead person breathing on their own?

Because this case has been ongoing in the public eye for many, many years she has totally become animated as a person with a right to live... it's have gone too far by many years to undo this. If she's allowed to waste away of dehydration and starvation it will say more about our Justice system than we're... or I am I should say, prepared to fathom. I am basing my last statement on the fact that there is no written contract, no Living Will, that orders a right to die verdict in this case. Her supposed right to die is based on hear-say.

I'm just shaking my head with disbelief.

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol

9 Reply by Alushe

  • Alushe
  • Guest

Re: Terri Schiavo

Euthanasia
There are two Hindu views on euthanasia:

    * By helping to end a painful life a person is performing a good deed and so fulfilling their moral obligations
    * By helping to end a life, even one filled with suffering, a person is disturbing the timing of the cycle of death and rebirth. This is a bad thing to do, and those involved in the euthanasia will take on the remaining karma of the patient.
          o The same argument suggests that keeping a person artificially alive on a life-support machines would also be a bad thing to do
          o However the use of a life-support machine as part of a temporary attempt at healing would not be a bad thing

Suicide
Prayopavesa, or fasting to death, is an acceptable way for a Hindu to end their life in certain circumstances.

Prayopavesa is very different from what most people mean by suicide:

    * it's non-violent and uses natural means;
    * it's only used when it's the right time for this life to end - when this body has served its purpose and become a burden;
    * unlike the suddenness of suicide, prayopavesa is a gradual process, giving ample time for the patient to prepare himself and those around him for his death;
    * while suicide is often associated with feelings of frustration, depression, or anger, prayopavesa is associated with feelings of serenity

Prayopavesa is only for people who are fulfilled, who have no desire or ambition left, and no responsibilities remaining in this life. It is really only suitable for elderly ascetics.

Hindu law lays down conditions for prayopavesa:

    * inability to perform normal bodily purification
    * death appears imminent or the condition is so bad that life's pleasures are nil
    * the decision is publicly declared
    * the action must be done under community regulation

Just some thoughts... I would wager Terry Schiavo isn't a hindu, but to me this puts another viewpoint on the matter.

  • From: terra incognita
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Terri Schiavo

Alushe wrote:

...but to me this puts another viewpoint on the matter.

Alushe,

May you explain how the Hindu info evokes another viewpoint on the matter for you?

From my viewpoint--

The Euthanasia info basically outlines the moralistic polarities that now/have existed with this case for years, but alike the problem that is occurring now the info doesn't offer a definitive address to the issue... remember, this case is not about "pulling a plug" that supports breath and heart rates, it's about purposefully, through jurisprudence, removing food/nutrition and water/hydration from a human being who's heart and breath are their own.

Alushe, I am indeed pro-euthanasia, I admire Dr. Kavorkian, yet Kavorkian's patients aren't just watched over as they waste away of forced dehydration and starvation, they are administered a lethal injection of drugs... and at the patient's bidding.

And the suicide info? Well, it simply has no application where Terri Schiavo is concerned, at least as far as I can discern.

I personally have my own thoughts about suicide, and there is indeed an instance where I would take my own life without a fear one of "karma", but that instance would have nothing to do with health... only quality of life.

No doubt, what happens with Terri can have no more meaning to any other of us as it does to her family, and I know what this means as to my place where the case is concerned... I can only make emotional stipulations and intellectual observations, and occasionally just plain ole rant and rave about Justice... and yet I do have a sinking feeling pertaining to an overall concern of her dying in this barbaric manner, and that concern revolves around the very well-being of the spirit of the spirit of humanity, the Collective Consciousness (or whatever term one uses to identify the total FRE that is humanity).

Personally, I think the people of the State of FL, the United States, the world of people even, watching this woman die due to these circusmstances will be a crushing blow to the spirit of the human spirit, no matter the individual choices. Maybe it's just me being an healer through and through, but I portend a greater heartbreak than any of us can imagine as we sit in our own skins.

I know now she's a phantom of a human being, I wouldn't want to live as is she, but the way the case is being handled is brutal... no matter what <bleepin'> good intentions parents, siblings, husband, or public servants, from protesters to Judges, have. This kind of human behavior acted upon this one acutely disabled person says something unkind and unseemly about where we're at... still yet.

Alushe, thank you for helpfullness... and again, how was it the Hindu material influenced you? Maybe you'll have the sincere insightfullness that will help those of us struggling to make some sense of this.

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol
  • From: zerone
  • Registered: 2004-08-16

Re: Terri Schiavo

can someone explain why her parents can't take her home and care for her there?

im sorry, im not all too familiar with this case, ive heard it here and there sporadically, but its only caught my attention most recently.

i wish for her to be at peace wherever she is, goes.

"...i was taken by the hand, from the ocean to the sand..."
nitin sawhney - 'eastern eyes'

zonabi's Website

  • From: terra incognita
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Terri Schiavo

Hi z,

It's about legal gaurdianship. As children of our parents we are under the gaurdianship of our parents, parents make the important life or death decisions. When one marries another, and if something happens as in the Schiavo case, the parents have no rights over legal gaurdianship, the spouse does. The parents, the Schindlers, have no legal recourse to claim gaurdianship rights, to make the decision, because she married Michael, and this gives him the utmost legal say so over her fate. Not even the Supreme Court will touch this case to rescind his gaurdianship.

In my case, for a different perspective, if something happened like this to me it would be my son who would have to make a decision, not my parents, and not my ex. It's kind of a pecking order thing.

Of course, the way to make sure individual personal choices of this nature are honored is to create a Living Will that outlines exactly what one's choices are about the right to live or die when one is incapacitated and unable to speak for themselves.

zonabi wrote:

i wish for her to be at peace wherever she is, goes.

Me too Brother/Man.

She's now six days without food and water...

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol

13 Reply by Auendove (edited by Auendove 2005-03-25 06:51:32)

  • From: terra incognita
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Terri Schiavo

BTW--A spokesman for the Schindler family made a statement today, he said that "there will be hell to pay" if Terri dies under these conditions, that "people will lose their jobs". He was adament.

Michael Schiavo and George Felos, Michael's attorney, have to be under constant police protection... I know it's a funky thing to say, but if these two men actually live out their lives to a natural end this in itself will be a miracle.

This will not be over with her passing. Her passing will create a "blood thirst" that is not likely to be satiated until the last right to die "player" is wounded, one way or the other, or dead.

The whole situation is phenomenally out of the realm of reasonability.

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol
  • From: terra incognita
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Terri Schiavo

For those who'd like to better acquaint themselves with Terri's case history here's a link... it shouldn't go without saying that the parents and the husband would each have their own versions of the case history, though this is more likely an objective/rational accounting of the lengthy case history... it's very long--

http://tampabay10.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=12739

Last night an Illinois man was arrested trying to rob a gun store, he said he wanted the gun to enable him to rescue Terri. He drove all the way from Ill., went to the Hospice, and told others he was going to take action--

http://tampabay10.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=12769

I doubt this is the last of the deranged attempts we'll see reported.

As well, last night during a judgement concerning the case a "suspicious backpack" was found in the courthouse. On the news this morning they reported the back pack was removed by a bomb crew and blown up.

http://tampabay10.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=12762

Police presence has been ramped up outside of the Hospice because, as the reporter said, "The protesters are becoming more and more aggressive."

http://tampabay10.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=12753

---------

This is like watching a movie called "Anatomy of a Social Disaster"... in slow motion sad

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol

15 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2005-03-25 13:21:10)

  • lyra
  • lyra
  • Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
  • Offline
  • From: my own private idaho
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Terri Schiavo

As inhumane and unjust as I feel this case is, I also happen to wonder if it's serving as a huge major distraction.   It really has become a debacle, front page of papers every day, major news coverage, constant CNN coverage.   It's Terry Schiavo, all day, every day.  (Michael Jackson too.....)    It's ripe for stuff to slip through the cracks during times like these...

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website