• morningsun76
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Topic: US students caring less for free spech rights

WASHINGTON - The way many high school students see it, government censorship of newspapers may not be a bad thing, and flag burning is hardly protected free speech.

It turns out the First Amendment is a second-rate issue to many of those nearing their own adult independence, according to a study of high school attitudes released Monday.

The original amendment to the Constitution is the cornerstone of the way of life in the United States, promising citizens the freedoms of religion, speech, press and assembly.

Yet, when told of the exact text of the First Amendment, more than one in three high school students said it goes "too far" in the rights it guarantees. Only half of the students said newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories.

"These results are not only disturbing; they are dangerous," said Hodding Carter III, president of the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, which sponsored the $1 million study. "Ignorance about the basics of this free society is a danger to our nation's future."

The students are even more restrictive in their views than their elders, the study says.

When asked whether people should be allowed to express unpopular views, 97 percent of teachers and 99 percent of school principals said yes. Only 83 percent of students did.

The results reflected indifference, with almost three in four students saying they took the First Amendment for granted or didn't know how they felt about it. It was also clear that many students do not understand what is protected by the bedrock of the Bill of Rights.

Three in four students said flag burning is illegal. It's not. About half the students said the government can restrict any indecent material on the Internet. It can't.

"Schools don't do enough to teach the First Amendment. Students often don't know the rights it protects," Linda Puntney, executive director of the Journalism Education Association, said in the report. "This all comes at a time when there is decreasing passion for much of anything. And, you have to be passionate about the First Amendment."

The partners in the project, including organizations of newspaper editors and radio and television news directors, share a clear advocacy for First Amendment issues.

Federal and state officials, meanwhile, have bemoaned a lack of knowledge of U.S. civics and history among young people. Sen. Robert Byrd (news, bio, voting record), D-W.Va., has even pushed through a mandate that schools must teach about the Constitution on Sept. 17, the date it was signed in 1787.

The survey, conducted by researchers at the University of Connecticut, is billed as the largest of its kind. More than 100,000 students, nearly 8,000 teachers and more than 500 administrators at 544 public and private high schools took part in early 2004.

The study suggests that students embrace First Amendment freedoms if they are taught about them and given a chance to practice them, but schools don't make the matter a priority.

Students who take part in school media activities, such as a student newspapers or TV production, are much more likely to support expression of unpopular views, for example.

About nine in 10 principals said it is important for all students to learn some journalism skills, but most administrators say a lack of money limits their media offerings.

More than one in five schools offer no student media opportunities; of the high schools that do not offer student newspapers, 40 percent have eliminated them in the last five years.

"The last 15 years have not been a golden era for student media," said Warren Watson, director of the J-Ideas project at Ball State University in Indiana. "Programs are under siege or dying from neglect. Many students do not get the opportunity to practice our basic freedoms."

Source

2 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2005-01-31 12:53:03)

  • lyra
  • lyra
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  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: US students caring less for free spech rights

US students are also getting dumberer and dumberer with every passing year, so really this is no surprise.  wink   I have too many stories to even keep track of anymore with regards to the teens of today and how much they don't know and don't care to know.  It's SHOCKING.    I love my story about using some Susan B. Anthony $1.00 coins once at a Target and how the 16 year old cashier girl thought I was passing fake money and flipped on the blinking light to call over her manager because she didn't know what they were.     I mean, I have endless stories.  It's sad, shocking, frustrating, aggravating....and it's getting worse, every year.   The graduates being churned out today are useless.  I used to work with a 22 year old girl who's pasttime was watching cartoons, and who didn't have a fricking CLUE who Dick Cheney or Donald Rumsfeld were.  Never heard of them.   But don't get me started.........!

(ps...and so as to not sound all holier-than-thou, I count myself in the same group of "useless graduates of the American school system", as documented in my thread from awhile back called "school"... http://www.montalk.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=536   I had to claw my way to what I currently know...they certainly didn't teach it in school!   As mentioned in the school thread, the American school system is designed to churn out non-thinking apathetic robots who don't question things, can't think for themselves, do what they're told, parrot what they've been taught and follow the status quo.  The American school system beats kids down, by the time they're done with 12th grade many totally hate the learning process.....)

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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  • Haven
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Re: US students caring less for free spech rights

You gotta be shittin' me!
Another story about it with some other views.

Some U.S. Students Say Press Freedoms Go Too Far
By Greg Toppo, USA TODAY

One in three U.S. high school students say the press ought to be more restricted, and even more say the government should approve newspaper stories before readers see them, according to a survey being released today.

The survey of 112,003 students finds that 36% believe newspapers should get "government approval" of stories before publishing; 51% say they should be able to publish freely; 13% have no opinion.

Asked whether the press enjoys "too much freedom," not enough or about the right amount, 32% say "too much," and 37% say it has the right amount. Ten percent say it has too little.

The survey of First Amendment rights was commissioned by the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation and conducted last spring by the University of Connecticut. It also questioned 327 principals and 7,889 teachers.

The findings aren't surprising to Jack Dvorak, director of the High School Journalism Institute at Indiana University in Bloomington. "Even professional journalists are often unaware of a lot of the freedoms that might be associated with the First Amendment," he says.

The survey "confirms what a lot of people who are interested in this area have known for a long time," he says: Kids aren't learning enough about the First Amendment in history, civics or English classes. It also tracks closely with recent findings of adults' attitudes.

"It's part of our Constitution, so this should be part of a formal education," says Dvorak, who has worked with student journalists since 1968.

Although a large majority of students surveyed say musicians and others should be allowed to express "unpopular opinions," 74% say people shouldn't be able to burn or deface an American flag as a political statement; 75% mistakenly believe it is illegal.

The U.S. Supreme Court in 1989 ruled that burning or defacing a flag is protected free speech. Congress has debated flag-burning amendments regularly since then; none has passed both the House and Senate.

Derek Springer, a first-year student at Ivy Tech State College in Muncie, Ind., credits his journalism adviser at Muncie Central High School with teaching students about the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech, press and religion.

Last year, Springer led a group of student journalists who exposed payments a local basketball coach made to players for such things as attending practices and blocking shots. The newspaper also questioned requirements that students register their cars with the school to get parking passes.

Because they studied the First Amendment, he says, "we know that we can publish our opinion, and that we might be scrutinized, but we know we didn't do anything wrong."

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.
  • Registered: 2004-03-28

Re: US students caring less for free spech rights

I saw this story before you guys posted it here, and it really disturbed me. The thing that came to my mind when reading this, strangely enough, was all the talk about "indigo" children and how children incarnating in recent years, particularly generation "Z", are supposed to be so intelligent and have higher vibrations and blah blah *New Age crap*. Where are these indigo children at? I look at generation Y and generation Z and I see ignorance. Obviously, the school system is partly to blame, but there is much more to it than that.

I think, in a way, these kids don't really know what life is about. They think life is going through school to get a good job, and working to have lots of money, drive a cool car, and acquire all the best movies on DVD. They've grown up in an environment of consumerism. Consumerism is slavery; it's not freedom. Consumerism is not life. It's a machine. And it's almost as if kids these days don't realize, like the generations before them did, that they're cogs in this machine. It seems like more and more the consumerist machine is becoming life, rather than just a part of life. It's ingrained itself in the mass consciousness so much that people can't imagine anything different. It's become the scenery now, all around us.

America in particular is engendering a culture of ignorance. Ignorance is strength: Sometimes when I look around me it seems some people really believe this. Everyone wants to protect the American "way of life" from terrorists, when they had no way of life to begin with. It's all been just a mindless homogenization of thought passed off as life.

  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: US students caring less for free spech rights

Boy. Whew. Really disturbing, if not suprising. But I must say the extent of it does shock me. And I thought some of the drones in my high schools were robotic! Now they seem like freakin' radicals in comparison to these "yes men." Or perhaps "yes teens" or "yes kids"?

"Yes, kids, we will do what you say. Yes, kids, we will buy you everything you want. Yes, kids, you will wake up one day in a straightjacket. But don't be suprised."

Yeeg.

On the other hand, there will always be a few brave souls who wriggle their way out of the mess, one way or the other.

For those people: we aren't talking about you. For the rest: this isn't geezer "every generation thinks it's the best" flim-flam art.
This is sheer alarm at the mindless evil that is trying to brainwash and destroy you, and I hope you are insulted enough to try to find out why we are saying this!

  • Haven
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Re: US students caring less for free spech rights

I can just see Bush and Cheney squeeling with girlish glee.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.
  • Registered: 2004-04-09

Re: US students caring less for free spech rights

i know lots of indigos...and they do care.  remember, the same press that gives you as the world twirls also reports these stories...

sure there are a lot of vegetative students...not to forget that many of the indigos are medicated against their will. add to the pharmaceuticals the additive in food, water, chemtrails...well, what do you expect?  i only had to deal with a few contaminated vaccinations...these kids have to deal with hundreds. 

when i meet them, they are in there, no doubt about it.  sometimes it just takes that recognition of who they are to rekindle their flame.

a lot of the other kids are still at the bridge stage doing that service.  they think like a herd and function like a pack.  when a good pack leader comes along they will follow.  right now everything is being done to keep the leaders of the pack from functioning.

It's all mind over matter. If you don't mind it doesn't matter...

8 Reply by Lakme (edited by Lakme 2005-02-02 05:18:36)

  • Registered: 2004-08-27

Re: US students caring less for free spech rights

Given the society we live in today, along with the overall agenda being pushed by TPTB, it does not at all surprise or shock me that many high school students would feel this way, and many -- if not most – adults for that matter.  That being said, I do remain skeptical of the accuracy of these so-called polls and studies, especially when published and widely disseminated by such establishment mouthpieces of the elites as the two cited here. (USA TODAY and Associated Press).

As palulukon already wrote: "remember, the same press that gives you 'as the world twirls' also reports these stories..."

I do believe that one of the major goals of the American school system is to churn out unthinking, unquestioning "worker bees," and that it has been especially aggressive about that since the early 1950's.  Read Charlotte Iserbet's "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America," to see how they purposely went about implementing that grand plan (www.deliberatedumbingdown.com). As the USA Today article stated, “the study suggests that students embrace First Amendment freedoms if they are TAUGHT about them and given a chance to practice them, but schools don't make the matter a priority."  Imagine that.

That being said, I also know first-hand how “polls" and “studies" are used to sway public opinion, and how oftentimes results are literally fabricated and created out of thin air to push a specific agenda on the population.  With a deliberately complicit mainstream media, it's done easily and often.

Also, in reporting these results, the sources of the stories often omit how the actual questions asked were WORDED, but instead concentrate solely on reporting just the “results." Any pollster will tell you that how questions are worded is a huge --  if not the DETERMINING FACTOR -- in how they are answered.  The desired results in a survey or poll can be arrived at simply by asking or wording questions in a particular way.

TPTB are doing everything they can to make it “acceptable" to take away our civil liberties and curtail freedom of speech, and they seem so far to be doing a good job of it.  It is one of their major goals.  Certainly, purposely not teaching children in schools about the importance of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and just giving lip service to civil liberties and free speech issues, as they do, will help get the desired results of many individuals downplaying their importance. 

I also believe that one of the ways they push their agenda is by promoting or legitimizing certain ideas that serve their purposes by widely publicizing the “results" of  biased, rigged, or even non-existent polls or studies for instance, suggesting that a good chunk of people think this way or that.  It acts to give credence to those others who might feel the same way and encourages them to do so through a form of  psychological persuasion, such as publicizing/promoting the results of a national “study."  It’s a form of reinforcing/encouraging the herd mentality.  In this particular case, it works to reinforce the thinking of those others who feel that it's really "not so bad" to think that free speech should be curtailed, or that the First Amendment "goes to far" because hey, look how many others think that way.  At the same time, it also works to dishearten and further discourage those others who hold opposite views and hold those freedoms sacred, and engenders in them a further sense of hopelessness and despair that so many others could feel differently.  Mission accomplished!

Don’t look any further than all the phony polls they were putting out practically every week during this last "bogus" presidential election, to see how they manipulate the public's thinking, and push their hidden agendas.

DJ

  • morningsun76
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Re: US students caring less for free spech rights

I think Lakme is correct, especially as far as using published "poll results" as a form of enhancing desired groupthink attitudes.  The numbers may be inflated, but the message that young people are being trained to be dumb is a serious one.  Personally I recall just thinking a couple of weeks ago that while we (in the US) may have really started to lose many of our 4th and 5th Amendment rights against search and seizure in the name of the war on terror (and new technologies), so far the foundation rights of free speech, press and religion protected by our 1st Amendment have not yet been attacked.  I believe that this "poll" is an indication that TPTB are already testing the waters to see how soon they can take the next steps towards passing actual "thoughtcrime" bills.

The question, then, for us becomes "what can we do to counteract this trend?"   Perhaps through one-on-one conversation with young people a difference can be made.  A good idea might be a single-page handout that could be passed around and posted in public places referring readers to a website tailored for the purpose of educating the youth on key issues of freedom that they haven't been told anything about.  Most high-school kids may not be ready for some of the hardcore theories and ideas on forums like Noble Realms, but a site speficially targetting them with an STO motive and in a loving spirit, tailored to their understandings of things might be a good start.  I'm not sure whether anything of this sort may already exist in one form or another, but it may be a start.   

Comments, anyone?

10 Reply by SednaSphere (edited by SednaSphere 2005-02-02 00:44:31)

  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: US students caring less for free spech rights

I've been planning on it! Oh, and I too think that perhaps this is a "pressure poll", a rigged Big Brother propaganda thing. I hope it's wrong or at least a great exaggeration.

  • Registered: 2004-12-28

Re: US students caring less for free spech rights

Indeed alarming. Not to make a long boring speech here, but freedom of speech is important as it creates an environment where a mulitude of ideas can be presented. If only one idea is forwarded or given audience, the odds of the better ideas being used are very slim.

Also it creates the all important debate. Some people think the war is a good idea, some don't. debates can awaken & sway people one way or the other. A good thing. If enough people are swayed towards the stupidity of the war, it might be ended. Theoretically speaking.

I have noticed on college campuses recently signs that say hate free zone, which sounds nice. & also no hate speech or homophobic language allowable here. Hmmm, does that mean if one does not think homosexuality is natural, he can not say that? anyway, it seemed like a free speech infringment. Also an attempt to force an agenda.

One can easily say Christianity is dumb in this very same space, but not homosexuality is not natural. I'm not a christian, I'm just using it as an example. Unpopular views should always be allowed. Lincoln anyone? His emancipation proclamation was "not" exactly popular at the time.