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Topic: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

We all know how impactful this movie was. We all like to think we know why. Some consider it "cool" just for the moves and some are interested in it because of the analogy it uses that is very very similar to the situation as channeled sources present.

But my reason for posting this is for a different reason. The sequels to the initial movie is where my concern lies. Did any of you notice how #2 + #3 declined 200% in creativity and innovation compared to the original? Almost like the REAL Matrix Control System said, "enough of this", and affected the makers and producers of the sequels to completely sell out. "Sell out" is actually the best way to describe it if I didn't consider the conspiracies that could be discussed to maybe conclude that further elaboration of the "The Matrix" was cut-off. As if the original artistic merit of the initial was intentionally being ignored for the following two.

I'm rambling, but did others notice this? They went from "HOT" to "COLD", with a small transition that makes me wonder.

2 Reply by aaronfirebrand

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Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

The importance of an idea can be reduced to a novelty by 'adding' to it similar-appearing, but empty constructs which serve to dilute, not amplify, the original. The question "What have you done for me lately?" applies to pop culture , where the audience has been trained to be fickle. I agree: M2 &3 were letdown city; they seemed to me as though constructed of outtakes. I have a lower opinion of the original because of the sequels. Dark City remains my favorite movie treatment of this basic idea of false reality, and the chance of sequelized dilution seems slim.

3 Reply by Auendove (edited by Auendove 2004-05-04 06:38:36)

  • From: terra incognita
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

wandering1,

I saw Monters, Inc. and thought it was very funny and illuminating.  I would actually like to own it for its entertainment value, I think it's one of the best animated films I've ever seen.  If my son was still a youngster I would've watched this film with him and we certainly would've discussed it afterwards.

I have no desire to own the Matrix films as they are fluent with mind games.  But to give credit where credit may be due, the first Matrix movie was an eye-opener for many.

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
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Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
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If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol

4 Reply by aaronfirebrand

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Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

I loved Monsters, Inc. It owed just a bit to Time Bandits for it's interface concept. Maybe Brazil showed what happens when escape from the matrix doesn't occur.

  • From: US.VA
  • Registered: 2004-03-27

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

Brazil - now there's a strange bird...

MU'06

6 Reply by aaronfirebrand

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Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

Hi, Cameron. Brazil is indeed strange, one of my all-time favorites (I like all Gilliam has done except Fear & Loathing). The matrix is there, in a gestational form. The separation between matrix dwellers and non-dwellers is not so great in Brazil. I'm so thankful Gilliam didn't cave to the money and change the ending.

7 Reply by BlackBox

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Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

Perhaps expectations were high for Matrix movie #2 and #3, and were exceeded for #1.

I strongly disagree. The style was corrupted after the original. Corrupted subconsciosly or consciously or both. But I refuse to believe that the mind-set that created the original, created the following two.

Something's rotten in the town of Denmark.

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Monsters Inc? I was told to see this movie but I didn't realize it had any MCS implications. I'll rent it a.s.a.p. Grazie.

Dark City is a really good movie. However it doesn't apply to our immediate reality. The Matrix hits home in the present.

8 Reply by BlackBox

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Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

Good points but as always we're on different pages.

By immediate reality I mean "The Matrix" is set in the environment of the NOW. The world as WE know it is the world that they bring up. The 21st Century!

I'm not speaking of analogies. I'm speaking of IMMEDIATE realities.

Like in Dark City everything is set in early 20th century trends. Clothing, cars, etc.

Capisce?

9 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2004-05-04 20:46:10)

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Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

What does the clothing / car styles have to do with anything?  Sure, the Matrix was supposed to look just like the world outside your door, in the present, while Dark City was supposed to look like a mish mosh of present day meets 1940's meets film noir, all taking place in a fictional world.   But so what?   

You dismiss Dark City by saying, and I quote you here, "doesn't apply."   Again, yes, it does apply, and clothing, hair, cars, etc. has nothing to do with whether something "applies" to our reality or not.  The subject matter and content do.   There are tons of movies and books which came out in "the past" that feature different cars, clothes, etc........but they still "apply" to our reality now more than ever.   If the criteria for what counts as a relevant movie which "applies" to our reality rests soley on the fact that it must take place NOW, in the 21st Century, in a world that looks identical to what's outside your front door, well, you're severely limiting yourself.

But I digress. 

I felt / feel it necessary to offer a counter opinion on this movie, instead of letting it get dismissed so quickly like that.   You have the right to dismiss it with a figuritive wave of the hand.  I have the right to challenge that.

Capiche?

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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10 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2004-05-04 20:50:32)

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Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

One other thing..........

You don't think The Matrix used analagous examples as well?   Do you REALLY believe we're really hooked up in little incubators someplace out there being controlled by AI / computers who use us as Coppertops?   Or was that just a fictionalized analogy to represent what's going on with our hyperdimensional controllers who use us for loosh food?  (and sometimes REAL food??)  I mean, since you wrote:  "I'm not speaking of analogies. I'm speaking of IMMEDIATE realities."

I rest my case.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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lyra's Website

11 Reply by BlackBox

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Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

Have you seen the animatrix?

The Matrix triggered my "wake-up" mode. It did this because it played the theme in the NOW. That's all I'm saying. Dark City did not wake me up because it played FICTONAL right from scratch. There was no "What is the Matrix?" question that was yearned for. Intuition from the masse of the MTV generation, hackers, etc etc, the NOW! The storyline is revealed slowly. In the Matrix, the solution arises from the initial set of events.

Dark City didn't hit me as a possibility because the environment was finite. The city was finite. (The beach didn't exist until he created it at the end) In hyperdimensional implications, I agree with you, it does perhaps do even a better job at expressing some of these concepts, but I'm not stepping into that territory. All I'm saying is that the Matrix has direct implications to ME, my friends, and everyone of the 21st century. Dark City doesn't apply itself so DIRECTLY. It's more artistic, which made it beautiful and more abstract. That's all I'm saying. It's more of a stretch to apply to the NOW than the Matrix.

12 Reply by aaronfirebrand (edited by aaronfirebrand 2004-05-04 23:28:07)

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Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

Thank you, lyra, for articulating what I could not due to my current 'brain fog'. I concur with you on all the points you made re: dark City. By my lights, the set designs were conceived along the lines of Batman, an artistic vision suggesting no particular time or place, rather an amalgam of past/present future.  In ways it reminded me of Lang's Metropolis, which might also be posited as an early antecedent to these films. Dark City was poetry, and like great poetry speaks truth more deeply than literalist expressions.

  • From: sw tz rl nd
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

I saw Dark City a long time ago, before the Matrix, and it didn't trigger anything in me. I'll have to watch it again. I agree that Matrix is much more "in your face", even though I have to say that the movie which actually woke me up was Fight Club smile

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  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

Resonance again!

15 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2004-05-05 06:25:45)

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Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

aaronfirebrand wrote:

Thank you, lyra, for articulating what I could not due to my current 'brain fog'. I concur with you on all the points you made re: dark City. By my lights, the set designs were conceived along the lines of Batman, an artistic vision suggesting no particular time or place, rather an amalgam of past/present future.  In ways it reminded me of Lang's Metropolis, which might also be posited as an early antecedent to these films. Dark City was poetry, and like great poetry speaks truth more deeply than literalist expressions.

I didn't even think of Batman, but that's very true!  Dark City definately has a mix of Gotham City mixed in, and past present and future all rolled into one.   I just love to watch this movie for the sake of looking at it visually.   

ermolai's comment reminded me of something interesting........the first time I watched Dark City, (in 1998) it didn't trigger anything in me either.   In fact, the weirdest thing happened..............I soon completely forgot about everything in the movie, other than who is in it.  Every time I'd go to Blockbuster and was perusing the aisles, I'd see that movie and think, "I saw that movie.......but I don't remember anything about it."  Everytime, I'd have the same thought, almost like a programmed command.   I have seen this movie, but I don't remember anything thing about it....I don't remember anything about it.....I don't remember......!  ahhh!   A little weird.  There had never been any other movie that I had this happen with either.  I always remember something about every movie I've seen, but this one it was like I was programmed to blank out on it.   Needless to say, the movie didn't end up becoming relevant until a good friend recommended that I check it out while I was living up in Portland, Oregon, smack in the middle of "waking up", in the gloomy rainy winter with plans to move to South Florida.    All of a sudden, the movie took on a WHOLE new meaning due to all my newfound insights, and the whole "Trying to get to shell beach" thing hit a little too close to home.  wink   When I got to Florida I was like, "I MADE IT TO SHELL BEACH!!!"  big_smile

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website