31 Reply by Atlantis (edited by Atlantis 2005-01-21 08:13:21)

  • From: Pizzabar Sunny Bay
  • Registered: 2004-09-08

Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

tillibullu wrote:
Haven wrote:

I think #1 means, there's an all-powerful force in the universe, and #2 means, it's not us.  Or, in other words, we shouldn't act like we're God.  Or, be humble and try to strive for something that is greater than just you or me.

But if God is infinite, then ALL is God.  There is nothing outside of God.  You cannot have Infinity plus one. If God is infinite, God is all-encompassing, so God includes us.  We are each a piece of God, another manifestation of infinite consciousness.

What if a particullary soul is destructed (worse than the fall of man) ? so the soul has become nothing ?
You could say in this case,

first: the soul was in God and after that: the soul is out of God, because the soul has become meaningless.

Being part of God does not make an individual God itself, God unto him or herself.  The paradox is, we are each God, and yet none of us is God itself.  We are each just a piece of God.  So we can strive to be Godlike on our own scale...and true God-realization is inextricably linked with a certain humility because it comes with an understanding of one's true place in the grand scheme of things.  It comes with the understanding that it's not about me but about i-and-I, me as a piece of the Infinite Us.

I don't know.

Also, in this unescapably interconnected web of consciousness we call the universe, we must recognize that the forces of nature are greater than we are, yet we have an effect on them.  We are not outside observers but part of the game because we are the world and the world is us.

I think there is an escape: by free will. God allows this, but it's not what he wants for you.
Black Magicans know this, they know they're lost. They choose this deliberately.

Holographically speaking, each one of us is a mini-universe.

There is an esoteric theory about this;

In summary:

We are a microcosmos/monade-entity, constructed from 9 clean bodies and 3 forces to work with.
After the fall of man, our 9 bodies became corrupted and we are able to reclean and return to paradise if we recognize the 3 forces in us.

These 3 forces are:
1) Will of God
2) the grace of Christ/your Oversoul with a "ringing" entry in your peace of mind
3) Holy spirit = consciousness/effort in following the will of God reasonable in line with your personal will.

Beautifull theory.

Atlantean Magic: safe, simple and enjoying a good lifetime.
  • From: US.VA
  • Registered: 2004-03-27

Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

Atlantis wrote:

In summary:

We are a microcosmos/monade-entity, constructed from 9 clean bodies and 3 forces to work with.
After the fall of man, our 9 bodies became corrupted and we are able to reclean and return to paradise if we recognize the 3 forces in us.

These 3 forces are:
1) Will of God
2) the grace of Christ/your Oversoul with a "ringing" entry in your peace of mind
3) Holy spirit = consciousness/effort in following the will of God reasonable in line with your personal will.

Beautifull theory.

So, this is what you believe is true but cannot proof?

MU'06

33 Reply by Atlantis (edited by Atlantis 2005-01-22 15:59:58)

  • From: Pizzabar Sunny Bay
  • Registered: 2004-09-08

Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

cameron wrote:
Atlantis wrote:

In summary:

We are a microcosmos/monade-entity, constructed from 9 clean bodies and 3 forces to work with.
After the fall of man, our 9 bodies became corrupted and we are able to reclean and return to paradise if we recognize the 3 forces in us.

These 3 forces are:
1) Will of God
2) the grace of Christ/your Oversoul with a "ringing" entry in your peace of mind
3) Holy spirit = consciousness/effort in following the will of God reasonable in line with your personal will.

Beautifull theory.

So, this is what you believe is true but cannot proof?

Good question, very good question.

In general, I tend to believe it, and sometimes I tend to be convinced of it.

About proving it:

I have a proof in a book (the book says it is) in front of me, but I am (still) not able to understand it.

The book is: Elementary Philosophy of the Modern Rosycross (J. van Rijckenborgh)

So you might say:

I'm busy trying to make a step from believing to knowing for sure with the external help of old esoteric coded works.

Atlantean Magic: safe, simple and enjoying a good lifetime.
  • From: zerone
  • Registered: 2004-08-16

Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

i believe everything is connected, which i could never prove

[one could begin to provide proofs of this, and they could be considered "true" or "correct" - but that is simply one facet that was examined. to say "everything is connected" is quite a bold statement that only a universal creator spirit could even begin to answer, yet its something that i feel inside of me that is universally true. perhaps a cheesy answer, but who can deny it ?]

"...i was taken by the hand, from the ocean to the sand..."
nitin sawhney - 'eastern eyes'

zonabi's Website

  • Registered: 2004-04-10

Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

I had a thought regarding the existance of "fallen ones"; perhaps they made some kind of agreement to do this (succomb to evil/STS/whatever you want to call it) to teach others in some sort of way, who knows.  I do not intend to condone choosing "darkness", but even this areana can serve to offer us lessons.  Seems to me a circle/cycle of sorts.  We are given choices, and illustrations of the sequelae of certain "choices" are manifested over and over again throughout our lives. 

It does not make sense to me that a soul can be "destructed", lost big time at times, but not obliterated....Seems that the Great Creator/God/Goddess doesn't destroy itself, but rather transmute the energy.  We seem to share a deep yearning for the understanding of such (here on the forum),,,,,

If there is no time
      Then you have time for everything.
   You're never in a hurry.
That's true freedom.

36 Reply by Cipher (edited by Cipher 2005-01-22 15:34:31)

  • Cipher
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  • Registered: 2005-01-18

Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

Maybe, and forgive me if this has been expressed somewhere on NR before...

God in its all totality wished to experience Itself in every way possible -  as unique individuated sparks (facets)  of consciousness.  So It created individual souls and the universe/s in which to explore every possible facet of existence.  Each facet would contain an element of every other facet (the holographic nature that we possess).  But each facet would have one aspect slightly more pronounced than any other facet.

[Sideline thought: So when you meet someone who mirrors an aspect of you that you are getting to know/coming to terms with, they often appear as more of a charicature of that aspect of yourself. That one particular aspect personified, if you like.] 

One aspect of the nature of this universe is duality - black/white, up/down, good/bad, funny/tragic, STS/STO - and yet each of these can only exist while the other is present, as we know.

So the 'fallen ones' are merely "one half" of all of these facets.  They are the ones exploring the STS avenues available to them, while the "other half" of these facets are exploring the STO avenues.

But all of them (us) are a part of the great Cosmic Whole - Godforce experiencing Itself as a miriad of individual sparks of consciousness.  None better or worse than any other.  Just experiencing. The Creator has given us the gift of Life.  The greatest gift we can give the Creator then, is the AWARENESS of this life, for that is what It wantd most of all.  To know Itself as each one of us.

That is why judgement of others is a moot point.

Just a thought wink

"And your truth will set you free!" Cipher

"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift.  The rational mind is a faithful servant.  We have created a society which honours the servant but has forgotten the gift." Albert Einstein

Cipher's Website

  • montalk
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Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

That was well put, Cipher smile One of the more intriguing ideas I've come across is that WE are the Fallen Ones. This makes sense if mankind as a whole can be considered 3D STS -- this world  of killing and eating and consuming and surviving, together with the myths about us once occupying a more exalted spiritual state. The question is which course of experience we as individuals choose next - further falling or a return home. Either way, it is all in the name of experience.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website

  • Haven
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Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

Cipher wrote:

God in its all totality wished to experience Itself in every way possible -  as unique individuated sparks (facets)  of consciousness.  So It created individual souls and the universe/s in which to explore every possible facet of existence.

Not to make this a Christian thing, but this is how I've personally experienced (the idea of) Christ, with the exception as to knowing what the ultimate purpose of these sparks is.  I believe in this idea, and even believe that we wouldn't exist without this God-spark.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.
  • Cipher
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Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

Thanks Montalk. 

The question is which course of experience we as individuals choose next - further falling or a return home. Either way, it is all in the name of experience.

I think the most important word there Tom, is "choose".  Which is why this kind of forum is very important - to wake individuals up to the endless choices - and indeed the possibility of choice.  I think that was probably one of my greatest first realisations/lessons - that I had CHOICE - over and above what parents, peers, society, religion had dictated to me.

STS and STO so beautifully sum up the paths that individuals have chosen.

Haven

Not to make this a Christian thing, but this is how I've personally experienced (the idea of) Christ, with the exception as to knowing what the ultimate purpose of these sparks is.  I believe in this idea, and even believe that we wouldn't exist without this God-spark.

I concur.  I have a few articles on my site - that I cringe a bit when I read now at how 'flowery' they appear.  But the essence of my personal truth is in them which I still believe (which is why I've still got them up in cyberspace). 

One of those articles talks about a return to Christ consciousness - very simplistic, but a starting point I think.  You can find it here: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~bazaann/ … /whats.htm - if you like smile

My own experiences have also been that we have a Christ Consciousness, to which we can return if we keep aligning our thoughs and heart to the Godforce.  Again, its a matter of choice.

"And your truth will set you free!" Cipher

"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift.  The rational mind is a faithful servant.  We have created a society which honours the servant but has forgotten the gift." Albert Einstein

Cipher's Website

40 Reply by tillibullu (edited by tillibullu 2005-01-27 19:05:03)

  • Registered: 2004-12-07

Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

Haven wrote:

I think #1 means, there's an all-powerful force in the universe, and #2 means, it's not us.  Or, in other words, we shouldn't act like we're God.  Or, be humble and try to strive for something that is greater than just you or me.

The Bhagavad Gita addresses this issue.  One of the last traps before really attaining true enlightenment (which continues as an unfolding but requires passing a certain "threshold") is the belief that one is God....as opposed to being part of God, in God, I-and-I etc.

The Gita states that it is nearly impossible to get past this stage without a Guru.  I have seen this to be the case.  The Ego takes the beginnings of enlightenment--with its surge of power, insight, light--and turns it into a story of Messiahdom.

I really like the bit in the film "Donnie Darko" when Donnie discusses with his science teacher the possibility that, if one's free will is in alignment with God's will, that one could then see the future.  I believe I started another thread here on that topic.

That is something I believe is true even though I cannot prove it.....yet anyway!  As my will aligns more and more with The Great Spirit and less with my petty selfish delusions that the universe becomes more and more supportive and that my esp, prophetic dreams and other insights increase.  The more I give up my self the greater my Self becomes.

So it's a funny edge because full enlightenment means becoming God/merging with God whilst also realizing that you are not God alone but rather part of God.

Colonization [christianity, judaism, islam] has robbed us of the rights of passage/initiation rights that provided opportunities to experience this truth, first hand.

Because until it is experienced it is not understood.  It remains theoretical.

And so modern man continues to hand his chains from one leader to the next, refusing to take responsibility for self, afraid of his own power.

The more I see this happening around me, the more lonely I feel.  Fortunately I recognize the phenomena and so I return to my faithful knowing in my heart that I am okay and that I am gonna earn the right to leave this planet one day.....and I know that my spirit ancestors are with me, they do make themselves known.

Really, I wonder about what Cipher and Montalk discuss in this thread----the idea that we on earth are the fallen ones.  It seems very plausible indeed! 

I have consciously chosen to align my free will with that of Great Spirit.  And it is often difficult.  I have layers and layers of selfishness to shed.  But that does seem to be an essential part of the experience here: to recognize that we have the choice, and to see the effects of these choices. 

My work right now involves teaching yoga and writing about many of the issues we discuss here.  And I have learned to accept that "good will win over evil, but maybe not in this lifetime."

I may never live to see the fruits of my labor in this body.

I know that the best I can hope for is that maybe some younger versions of me out there in the world will read my essays, see my film, and be uplifted and reassured despite their struggle and loneliness.  As I write, I have in mind an audience full of "me-s" from a few years ago: lost and needing a bit of encouragement.

Is it completely ignorant and silly and naive to think that planetary-wide change is possible?  Are there just too many STS's around, too much delusion?  Is the poison of colonization and man's ego just too powerful?  If that's true, it really does shift my focus and my energies.

For example, I was watching my mother's behavior recently and I just felt really overwhelmed by it.  My new mantra is to focus on the solution, not the problem, so I tried to think of a constructive way to talk to her.....

but how do you address someone's behavior when it is based on a psychological paradigm that starts with totally false premises?  How do you explain to a relative that their whole worldview is f#cked?

This is really off-thread, my apologies!  I'm just in a frustrated mood today.

  • Registered: 2004-12-07

Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

Vuyiswa wrote:

Having been born into one of these traditional ancient cultures (Xhosa -South Africa) plus having a life experience of the rationalism-led Western model, has helped me enormously in trying to grow my understanding and acceptance of this STS reality. I feel priviledged to have felt the energetic tone of a people that shared in an STO manner because they had a knowledge that doing otherwise was literally a matter of life and death physically and spiritually. It has been bothe diffiuclt and interesting to live on both ends of this spiritual spectrum. V

I was just thinking about a similar idea today....how strange it is to be in it but not of it.  I was going about my business at the post office, etc.  Sometimes people's auras come through very strong, and I recognize that we are communicating on other levels of reality, although they might not consciously know it.  So it's odd to play the 3d game whilst also having awareness in other realms.  Odd to live in the modern world but see through it's paradigm.

I also consciously hold back from making it known that I am seeing these things because it can frighten people or sometimes just invites hostility because they are attached to their 3d reality story--and making mention of things communicated in other realms completely tears that story apart.....

and as time goes on it seems that more is being revealed to me but not too fast.  It's like there are laws of spiritual physics and you aren't given more than you can handle......and I am still working with my training wheels in terms of knowing when to call people out on their illusions versus having the wisdom to know that I should leave them be.

The hardest thing is seeing how it all interrelates, how all the STS behaviors collectively contribute to planetary mediocrity and perhaps human downfall, and feeling unable to really change it all.....

Rambling again but I was compelled to respond.

  • From: Pizzabar Sunny Bay
  • Registered: 2004-09-08

Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

Atlantis wrote:

About proving it:

I have a proof in a book (the book says it is) in front of me, but I am (still) not able to understand it.

The book is: Elementary Philosophy of the Modern Rosycross (J. van Rijckenborgh)

So you might say:

I'm busy trying to make a step from believing to knowing for sure with the external help of old esoteric coded works.

The book mentioned is very interesting, but there are to many New Agey disinfo points in it.

The organization connected to Van Rijckenborgh, Lectorium Rosicrucianum, is considered as a very tricky Illuminati base in corrupting and infiltrating esoteric knowledge and old Gnostic texts.

Atlantean Magic: safe, simple and enjoying a good lifetime.
  • From: zerone
  • Registered: 2004-08-16

Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

Atlantis wrote:
Atlantis wrote:

About proving it:

I have a proof in a book (the book says it is) in front of me, but I am (still) not able to understand it.

The book is: Elementary Philosophy of the Modern Rosycross (J. van Rijckenborgh)

So you might say:

I'm busy trying to make a step from believing to knowing for sure with the external help of old esoteric coded works.

The book mentioned is very interesting, but there are to many New Agey disinfo points in it.

The organization connected to Van Rijckenborgh, Lectorium Rosicrucianum, is considered as a very tricky Illuminati base in corrupting and infiltrating esoteric knowledge and old Gnostic texts.

well that doesnt sound very promising...

wink

"...i was taken by the hand, from the ocean to the sand..."
nitin sawhney - 'eastern eyes'

zonabi's Website

44 Reply by Atlantis (edited by Atlantis 2005-05-10 09:21:15)

  • From: Pizzabar Sunny Bay
  • Registered: 2004-09-08

Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

zonabi wrote:

well that doesnt sound very promising...

wink

Yep, wink

But it contains some interesting baby-terms in this (dirty) bathing water.

Atlantean Magic: safe, simple and enjoying a good lifetime.

45 Reply by impatiens

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Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

Well, since you asked...

what I believe but cannot prove is -- It's all an illusion; but the illusion is also a reality.

This thread is delightful, insightful, and inspiring. Thank you to Cameron for starting it, and to All who posted. Merci buckets.

It either inspires or reinforces these random thoughts: about language and colonialization being dangerously restrictive or oppressive; that we are all aspects of the unIversal i-and-I; that we may well be "fallen" (would go a long way to explaining and understanding mucho); that the choices we make are pivotal to our development, and that making/living the correct ones is ultimately what determines our destinies (including other futures); that I don't need or want no second-hand religion, non merci (but that I have nevertheless gleaned much that is good and useful second hand/from others, including religions); that certain ways of certain indigenous peoples, particularly spiritual outlooks/connections seem vastly more civilized, enlightened, and advanced than certain ways of more modern societies; that we are all connected, literally, metaphorically, physically, spiritually, in every imaginable way; that STO and STS "personas" emanate from ONE and the same source; that we are here to learn from and teach/help each other, ultimately towards the same "ends" for all...methinks that the ultimate "objective" is likely unconditional love for All (that's the best, simplest way I can describe it just now).

Btw, this is a particular new-found treasure for me (in the way it's expressed), among many gems I've discovered here:

"Separation and polarisation of our reality was/is the most effective way of keeping us in the dark and chasing our own shadows even if perchance, we stumble into some light. Once we begin to see more of the I in all and the all in I, an integration begins to occur that is more in tune with the rhythmns of life on this planet and the universe at large. "

HalleluJah!

Finally, I believe that my mind is open, but cannot prove it. lol  And believe that all [my] beliefs, including this one, are wide open to interpretation and change...

Thank YOU smile