Pets On Prozak - Disguising the problems that arise from pet food (Page 2 of 3)

Someone thinks raw foods for animals are "gross." That almost belongs in the humour sections. How **s backwards people are in this brainwashed time we are living in. They want to make their pets into little versions of themselves. Meanwhile the cat would kill for a fresh kill.

Forgot to address Marcus' post...........but all I can say is....yippee!      That's awesome!  Very cool to hear.   

I think one of the no-no raw meats that we're not supposed to feed dogs is pork, just to keep in mind for any dog owners here.  But you probably want to double check on that...

Well everybody....................................................I did it, I officially made homemade cat food last night, using all the ingredients and tools that are shown on www.catnutrition.org.   From the time I made the decision to do it and ran around gathering up supplies and supplements and ordering whatever other stuff I needed from online it took I think 8 days.   The meat grinder that I ended up getting was one of the old fashioned style heavy iron chrome plated ones with the hand crank, and I got the small scale, the little freezer safe mason jars, as well as all the supplements she mentions....including the totally obscure "Glandular Supplements" imported in from New Zealand!  (honestly...what would we do without the internet to order these weird things from??)

It was WORK, let me tell you!!!     WOW!   Mostly the work was with the meat....all the cutting, scraping, hacking, grinding....wrestling with the meat grinder which didn't want to stay attached to the counter and kept slipping!      It was kinda funny, actually.   I'm not strong enough to push the grinder into the counter because it's a tight squeeze, and very heavy, so I went wandering around the apartment looking for something heavy to whack the grinder with and bang it back into place.  Found a 20 pound weight lifting weight in the back room.....ding ding ding!!   Picked it up with two hands, heave hoed it back to the kitchen and bonked it into the grinder a few times to knock it back into place.....then back to grinding.......:D   

I ended up using 3 huge turkey drumsticks, ground lamb meat, and 2 chicken thighs/drumsticks, and chicken livers, all from Whole Foods, and all natural, hormone / antibiotic free, grain fed, free range.     I also used the bone from the chicken.....not the turkey.   Chicken bone is very soft actually, and I was able to chop the bones into thirds using quick *CHOPCHOPCHOPS!* with the carving knife, so they were small enough to stuff into the grinder.   The grinder had no problem mashing it up.   If you're not used to dealing with meat......you'll become an expert by the time you're done!    You'll become like I was..........grabbing the turkey skin and ripping it right off the leg in one pull, hacking up bones, scraping meat from tendons and bones with a paring knife.....yup, I'm a regular butcher now.     Plus as I get more practice doing this it'll be more and more easier and will take less time. 

In the end it's totally worth it because it's the healthiest food you will ever feed your cats....or dogs, for the dog owners out there who are  interested in converting to a raw foods diet.   [NOTE:   Anne, from catnutrition.org recommends a site called rawmeatybones.com for dog owners....she had this to say:   "For dogs, I think Tom Lonsdale's approach works best.  His site is here: http://www.rawmeatybones.com   Ian Bilinghurst is sort of considered the 'godfather' of raw feeding for dogs, but I think he advocates feeding a bit too many vegetables for dogs.  It's interesting--there is still no agreement on whether dogs are omnivores or carnivores!  But with cats, it's quite clear--these are little killing carnivore machines (that purr)."]

And my cat did eat it.  Not as enthusiastically as the salmon / chicken / chicken livers meal I was making for her, but, she did eat it.   In time she'll get used to it more.  It also helps to drizzle salmon oil on the food and to make sure it's warm by warming it in the ziploc bags under warm water, like catnutrition.org mentions.

Here's a direct link to the actual cat food recipe so you don't have to hunt around on the website to find it:

http://www.catfood.catnutrition.org/CatFoodRecipe.pdf

And here are links to find all the various supplements in the event you're unable to locate some things in the area where you live:

Small Mason Jars - freezer safe:
http://www.goodmans.net/get_item_bl-600 … rs-1cs.htm

Meat Grinders-
After I already ordered my grinder from "Bed Bath &  Beyond" I happened to notice that Goodman's also sells old fashioned iron crank handle meat grinders........for like, half the price.   So this could be a good source for grinders as well:
http://www.goodmans.net

Chicken Hearts - Hare Today (I didn't end up ordering the hearts and instead just supplemented with Taurine....)
http://www.hare-today.com/

Glandular Supplements - Premiere Labs:
http://www.herbalglobal.com/cart/Raw_Mu … ndular.htm

Taurine - NOW:
http://www.iherb.com/taurine500mg.html
(NOTE:  I found Taurine at Whole Foods, by Twin Lab, called "Mega Taurine", with 1000 mg. per capsule...)

Salmon Oil:
http://www.naturesnutrition.com/SKU/32257.htm
(Also found Salmon oil at Whole Foods.......)

L-Carnitine -
This isn't mentioned in the recipe, but Anne does mentions it in the section regarding "Obesity".  L-Carnitine is like an amino acid and it converts fat deposited in the liver into energy.   It doesn't hurt to put that in the food and many homemade pet food recipes mention it, so I bought some of this as well....at Whole Foods, of course.    My cat isn't obese, but this can't hurt either, because she does have "chub."   

Good question!     I thought about this as I typed my last post, but didn't include it. 

Well, what I made last night will last about 12 - 13 days, possibly even 14 depending on how much she eats every day.   The mason storage jars I purchased come in packs of 12, (hmm.....there's that number 12 again......what does it mean?!?!    haha)    So, with 12 jars of frozen homemade cat food that's roughly a two week supply, making it a twice a month endeavor.  So, twice a month it will be time to pull out the grinder and battle the meat!      It's okay though, because like I said, the more I do it the easier it'll become and the less time it will take. 

As far as cost is concerned.....the supplements will all last through many more months of cat food making, so I won't have to be buying bottles of the supplements each and every time I need to make the food.   Each bottle comes with about 50 - 60 capsules of whatever the supplement is, sometimes 90 - 120, depending.  So, they'll last a LONG time.   The supplies such as the scale, jars, grinder, etc. are all a one time purchase, so really, the only thing that I'll have to purchase each time I make cat food is the actual meat in itself, which is totally inexpensive.    The supplements will be replenished as they run out, which again, won't be for at least another 6 months for some of them.

So to answer your question, is this practical........to me, absolutely.   The only real issue with this endeavor is "time", but for me that's not an issue at all, because I don't have kids, I don't watch TV, I don't have all the normal time consumers that most people have.   So there's absolutely no excuse for me to not be able to squeeze in several hours, twice a month, for cat food making...........

I don't think it's gross.  I was wrestling around with meat last night and grinding up bone and cartiledge, so really, that's not gross for me.     And yes, the reason cats like the juice because the meat they eat in the wild would be bloody and juicy.   Dry store bought cat food is the absolute antithesis of anything they'd be eating in the wild.  It's no wonder most cats hate it and eat as little of it as possible. 

I don't think it would be right to profit from Anne's recipe at catnutrition.org.   I mean, I didn't come up with it, she did, but then for me to turn around and take her recipe and bottle it as my own would just be wrong.   Personally, I encourage the idea of getting people to get in there and do it themselves, because it has many benefits.   One, it forces the person to learn -- learn about cat nutrition, learn about the pet food industry and what's going on with that, learn about how to actually make cat food.    We live in a world where people want to pay other people to think and do the work for them.   I say, get in there and do it yo'self!      When you're actually reading the recipe, seeing what the ingredients are and WHY those ingredients are there, you learn something.   Two, it'll bring people closer to their pets when they actually start making the food for themselves.   When you juts pop open a pre-made container that you didn't put together yourself there's no thought involved, there's no "I made this for you!!  woohoo!!"   

That's just the way I see it though....

Okay....a modified update on my stance on raw foods.........

After having my cat on the raw foods diet for a week and a half, she stopped poo-ing    Not enough fiber.   Resulted in me having to take her to the vet, to get to the bottom of what was happening and why.   While there, I spoke with the vet about the new diet and got an earful, which I neutrally considered and put on the back burner until doing more research.   Basically, this is what the vet said:

- Supposedly, cats CAN get affected by e.coli, salmonella, etc., as well as the parasites that could be in the raw meat;  bones especially are bad news;   This contradicted what I'd read in the pro-raw foods diet sites which swear that "Oh no, cats and dogs are designed to not be affected by those things, they're different than humans...."   So, major contradiction going on.   

- Cats do need the veggies and carbs, but only in small amounts, because the animals they'd be killing and eating in the wild have veggies and carbs in their intestines....so the cats do get it, but indirectly.   

- A pure meat diet is debilitating in the long run, harmful on the liver and kidneys;

- Pure meat diet has no fiber, as evidenced by my cat's inability to poop.   catnutrition.org compensates for this by including Psyllium husk in the recipe;   if you don't do it, your pet won't go, basically.  I didn't do that, because I wanted to see what would happen.   Now I know!

So after hearing all of this, I had to go and get another bag of Nutro dry food, to get some bulk in her system so she'd start going again, which worked.    She's been back on that for the last 4 days while I figure out what to do in the meantime.

I did more research on the 'net, this time deliberately looking for sites that are against raw foods diets, using "toxicity" in my search phrase.    Surprisingly, I discovered that author Ann Martin whose articles I referenced above, and who catnutrition.org highly recommends, doesn't actually advocate a raw foods diet.   She firmly promotes a lightly cooked homemade diet, which DOES include veggies and a small amount of carbs.     

So, this is what I've decided to do, for the 2 people reading this and breathlessly following along.         I've decided to continue with the homemade diet, but, eliminate the bones, add some sort of veggie / light carbs to it, and lightly cook it.    Refining the methods.   Supposedly, Ann Martin has a cat who's now 26 years old.   So she must be doing something right.   I don't know.   I just do not know anymore!!!!  ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    THIS is why I hate going to vets.   Everytime I go to one I get an earful of stuff, half of which is nonsense.   There's so much sifting that has to be done with vet info.    I won't give up though.....

Anyway, for those reading, if anybody has an info. or feedback, tips or insights, personal experiences or advise, feel free to pipe up at any time!   

And what an adventure it's been!   First my cat was plugged up, then she had to have a butt exam at the vet, and you can imagine how well THAT went over with her, then she she was going again but missing the catbox and landing on the floor, and now I see that she could have gotten parasites from certain raw meats which various websites swear are safe.   !    It's always an adventure on this end!!!!!!!!!!!!!     Poor cat.  It'll all work out though, I know it.