Is it...no...not another one...

This wasn't something directed at you, Neo, specifically, or anyone, for that matter.  This is an issue I genuinely want to get some viewpoints on.  I don't intend to turn this into an argument.  I was just wondering how someone sees the issue and if they see any hypocrisy in this kind of attitude.

I don't think any beliefs have any real experiential data. 

I think Christianity was more than likely an encoding of certain truths.  I think that wise people encoded exoteric mysteries to initiate someone into esotoric mysteries.

The only thing I can hope is that people won't be so quick to jump on something they don't understand.  It's not their fault, per se, because they believe that these judgmental or sunday Christians are portraying the wisdom of Christianity.  That doesn't make sense to me.

Perhaps it deserves more study.

Some books that may be good to read to change a knee-jerk reaction to the beliefs and religion:

"The Jesus Mysteries"
"Jesus and the Lost Goddess"
by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy

P.S. It also contains a lot of things against the religion of Christianity.  Even arguments against a flesh and blood Jesus!  That's bait for people brushing up on their anti-christian arguments.  *wink wink*

Hey Haven,

I took you at your words and didn't feel that you were calling anybody out in particular.

I had typed a few replies but felt I needed to let it be until more was said (if anything) partially because there wasn't anything to really answer persay since I don't feel I need to "defend" my Christianity either, but also because I was afraid I was going to put words in peoples mouths...kinda answer for them, but I didn't know what their answer was.

I disagree here. Jim Cymbala and Henry Gruver both show their experience through their books. Stuart Wilde also oozes experience through his articles and books, Dr. Wayne Dyer like wise.   

This is where I feel one of the biggest issues with mainstream Christianity lies is the lack of acts/experience. Where is the "power" of the Holy Spirit in the "church?"Absolutely there are some churches that got it right but I think they are the vast minority. A lot of church members buy into the tribal mentality and have been ridiculously slow to break out of its own dogma. They have abdicated their power/listening to the Spirit within them and their ability to interpret the scripture for themselves.

There is alot of evidence pointing that Jesus was an Essene...why don't we study any of their writings? Jesus went to Egypt...Maybe where the Nag Hammadi was found...why don't we get to read those writings? The answer is it could very well eliminate the need for the church heirarchy as it exists and it could eliminate the need for the term "Christian" and return to "the followers of the way" which they were called in the first place.

Yes.

I agree with Neo and feel that another big issue, is the limited and absolute closed way in which scriptures get interpreted. They either get so watered down as to be ineffective or they are missed/misinterpreted all together.

In either the epistle of barnabas or the stromatas there is a portion that goes along the lines of "to the Dogs you give the bones, to the cows you  the acorns, to the SLAVE, YOU GIVE THE LAW, and to the sons, you give the perfect."  There is a lot of guidance in the old testament but you have to wade through a lot to find the nuggets.

Unlike Neo(neither good or bad) I believe Jesus was real, I believe in only one God (causality, Highest consciousness or one source/infinite source). I think there is alot of "borrowed" knowledge from sumeria and Egypt (Isaiah 19:25 "blessed be Egypt my people - seemed the most metaphysical/inner world of teachings, Assyria my handiwork -babylonian law came before moses and has similarities to say the least - this could also be the outer world, and Israel my inheritance, I just think the Hebrews put it together, unfortunately it became corrupted again. www.wyattmuseum.com sure gives credence to the stories and myths of the old testament in my opinion.

When you learn to identify a truth, don't get stuck on the dogmatic term.
Jesus summed up the Law as STO - service to others. Don't be divisive and say I'm Christian, your not, I'm right, your wrong, a truth is a truth. It knows no colour, sex, country or anything else...it just is.

You're right.  But I do think that everyone has their experiences.  These people you mentioned are into diligent seeking.  Diligent Christians have seen Christ and Mary.  I think it depends on what you expose yourself to and what you're willing to listen to.

From my experience, everyone has had experiences.  People just color with whatever their beliefs are.  Ask most people, and they'll have a story.  The more Christian someone is, the more it'll take on a Christian flavor.  I think the tribal mentality runs in all society.  The thing is, is that Christianity is now a tradition.  Alternative spiritual viewpoints seem more spiritual because they generally require someone to be seeking them to find them.  Because Christianity is a tradition doesn't mean the basis is wrong.  I'm certain that if Wicca were the tradition, you'd find the same thing as you do with Christianity.  The problem is, is that very non-spiritual people are taught they are christians when they only have a very limited desire to know exactly what that entails, beyond regurgitation.

I don't believe, however, that the believer makes the original message invalid, or has any bearing on what the message is trying to say on a deeper level.

It mentions that in the New Testament, in that when you're young, you're treated as a slave, which is why the Law was given to the Jews.  I think people would see Christianity differently if they took they time to assume there were nuggets all over the place and try to find them.

I don't generally get stuck on the dogma.  My dogma is that I'll keep looking for truth.  I say I'm Christian, because it's the closest label I have.  I don't think people should feel divided because of labels, or feel threatened by difference, no matter if that difference is something as mainstream as Christianity.

The only thing I can contribute on this thread regarding Christianity and Noble Realms is this:

-  I don't like the mentality of "Oh, this is Noble Realms and the Montalk site and there's no place for Christians here!"  I think that's wrong.  It hasn't been said here in this particular thread, but it's an issue that's briefly reared its ugly head previously on other threads.   I know a lot of people have been burned or annoyed by Christians, but you can't judge everybody based on some.  It's not fair.   

- I think this should be a place for ALL truth seekers, no matter what spiritual / religious practices they adhere to.  The only rule should be no bashing each other's religious / spiritual beliefs.  If someone wants to start a thread about their particular religion / spiritual beliefs........by all means, they should.  They should have that right.   If someone has a problem with that...................then don't participate in the thread.   Click on a different thread.   As long people aren't attacking each other and putting each other's beliefs down, then there shouldn't be a problem.   This should be a place where people can learn and seek and share experiences, stories and ideas.  How can we do that when we choose to only associate with others that match exactly what we believe???   ???   We'd never have made this far in our truth journeys if we had only been exposed to one point of view in life.

It's like, many get to this point in their journey then they decide "Okay, this is what I believe, period, and I don't want to see anything else."   No!  You gotta keep going.  Keep seeking out alternate points of view.  The more opposite of what you think you believe, the better!   This is exactly the time when you SHOULD be looking closer at material you previously turned away from or dismissed.   I'm telling you, I learned a LOT on that End times / conspiracy messageboard with the Christian / Catholic bent to it, good and bad.  Wow!  You have no idea.   I'm glad I did it.  It was eye opening and I learned a bunch, about Christianity, Catholicism, their good points, their bad points.  I was inundated with the mentality and points of view of hardcore Catholics and Christians and I saw the ones that were sincere, the ones that were hypocrites, and I now understand "where they're coming from."  I finally understand their p.o.v. on abortion, birth control, and all matters of moral issues.   I didn't before and never bothered to find out, I just dismissed them. 

I just really don't want to see this become an elitist exclusive place where "ONLY" those who believe 100% of the Montalk material can participate.  That's crap.  What website has material that you agree with 100%, through and through??  None!   During the Moralman drama, the Christian thing briefly became an issue, and I didn't like what I was seeing, at all.  I didn't particularly like Moralman's style and felt he might be yanking our chain, but to say that he shouldn't be posting here or to attack him because he's Christian......that was wrong.   Not that this is an issue per se here, in this thread, right now, but it's fitting to mention it since this is a thread about Christianity.

Anyway, just some ideas.  Hoping this thread can be positive and productive.    So far, so good....

The irrational nature of Bible Thumpers and Bible Bashers shows it's not a religion problem so much as a people problem. There will always be dogmatic people preferring laziness, contempt, and hypocrisy over discernment, compassion, and wisdom. This is true for both skeptics and believers.

As far as Christianity goes, there's a big difference between Christianity the Superstition and Christianity the Wisdom. Wisdom is universal and written in our hearts, superstition is divisive and imprinted upon our minds. The Bible has multiple layers and different people subscribe to different layers in accordance with their perceptive abilities and spiritual intelligence. The higher levels cannot be dismissed out of fault of the lower.

On the lower level the Bible is a mess, I think, and the irrational skeptics are as quick to tear that level apart as the irrational believers are quick to adhere to it, and that's where most of the conflict comes from since both sides are ignorant and resolution cannot come through ignorance.

But Christianity the Wisdom is something else. If you've ever read anything by Rudolf Steiner, Gurdjieff, Mouravieff, Goethe, or by other other Western mystics, alchemists, and secret societies - the basis of their philosophy is esoteric Christianity, sometimes accented by Egyptian/Greek/Sufi influence. Some complain that the Bible has been paganized, but that's just a shadow of the esoteric knowledge encoded into the Bible beneath the noses of the Church and its superstitious followers. It's a form of steganography - hiding one type of information in another.

For the record, I myself am familiar with the Bible and have no qualms about quoting or referencing it when suitable, and the majority of what spiritual literature I read can be considered esoteric Christianity - which ironically is not anything you'll find in the "Christian" section of a bookstore.

I think as long as people of different philosophies and faiths avoid being thumpers or bashers and stick to intellectual and spiritual integrity, and as long as they are all open minded but discerning to new ideas, then differences of viewpoints should never cause conflict among them.