Topic: The Fall - the biggest lie?

All religions on the world, including the New Age, have the myth of the Fall at their root. I had even come to accept it using some serious twists of mind, but now I'm starting to deeply reconsider it. What if all these myths were a Grand Way to make us feel guilty to exist, in need of justifying every aspects of our being?

These beliefs are so rooted in our unconscious that even those who consider themselves atheists keep on following them blindly. Think about the policeman requesting papers. How many people feel that there is something seriously wrong with that?

There is something more pervert to this belief. All the energy/attention that we spend trying to heal/save/correct/fix ourselves is energy that we cannot use to accomplish our destiny. This belief acts like a programme extracting energy from us, taking away our power,

The same goes for New Agers who go from workshops to workshops to "heal/unblock their chakras", feeling that they need to "fix" themselves before they can go further. But this is a never-ending timeloop, and soon they forget why they have come on this planet in the first place! (I believe chakras are "healed" when we realign with our Higher Self, because the challenges to accomplish our destiny forces us to do so to continue).

Since those who exploit us feel no guilt for their acts, why should we feel guilty for our mere existence? What is heroic/loving/good in letting them act this way?

Re: The Fall - the biggest lie?

Maybe the message of Christ was preached to counter-act this feeling of being unworthy.  By accepting God as the Father, then the bond was love and forgiveness.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

Re: The Fall - the biggest lie?

Would not going from the The Father/ The One/ The Infinite/ The Great Consciousness to where we are now be considered a fall?

And we are living out the experiments 1) where a monkey was placed in a cage and a bunch of bananas was humg. The monkey saw them and climbed to them and just before the monkey reached them the scientists blasted it with water, scared it ran back down. A second monkey was introduced and when it went to climb the first monkey tried to pull it down...with great vigor. I think it succeeded in breaking free, then it too was sprayed just before it got the bananas.
Then when the third monkey was introduced it couldn't break free and no monkeys were able to get up to the bananas because they wre pulled down


Combine that with 2)the Pike (fish)experiment where a glass was placed between a pike and another fish the pike would see as food. The Pike tried to get the other fish but the glass prevented the pike from getting it. Eventually the pike quit even trying. The scientists then removed the glass....the pike wouldn't go after the fish and subsequently starved to death.

Maybe we find out why we are told to persevere and we could quite probably be separated from mothers/fathers/brothers etc. and to not stop seeking until we find.

Just some thoughts.

Peace,
Teddy

"It means the Matrix can't tell you who you are" - Trinity

4 (edited by ermolai 2004-12-03 03:08:42)

Re: The Fall - the biggest lie?

There has been a separation and a forgetting, no doubt, but is this necessarily due to a "mistake" or a "temptation"? Isn't it just part of the rules of 3D life that anyone who wish to Play has to follow? What to make of the supposedly 60 millions wanderers now on Earth?

Re: The Fall - the biggest lie?

Definitely the way the 'fall' is portrayed by religions is designed to induce a major guilt trip.  I strongly feel that something happened to humanity a long time ago.  I even had a brief past life 'memory' of something terrible happening.  At least I think that is what it was.  I'm still fumbling around trying to figure out what's what with these experiences.  The worst part about the myths as far as I can tell, is that there is an idea of an inherent flaw.  Humanity is filth, disgusting, ugly, unworthy of spirit, and its all humanity's own fault.  Even if there was a mistake, a fall of sorts, that would not necessarily imply that humanity is essentially flawed.  Mistakes can be fixed, lessons can be learned, but not if one is inherently flawed.  That I think is what makes the myths so dangerous. 
Kathy

Never Give Up!

Re: The Fall - the biggest lie?

ermolai,

I agree, this is not due to a flaw or anything along that line. I think it is part of the deception we need to shake. That's what I appreciate here - people trying to shake those fallacies.

Peace,
Teddy

"It means the Matrix can't tell you who you are" - Trinity

Re: The Fall - the biggest lie?

According to the Toltecs the first lie is that of our imperfection, and that is the lie that induced our agreement to be changed from our original state.  From all that I've read of various "fall" legends it appears to me that a predatory species introduced this suggestion because they needed us in a form they could control and "milk" and that would continue by reproduction.  During this "reformatting" we rather conveniently "forgot" our origins so that the lies of the predator took root, and we were soon passing these lies down to our offspring.  Then we founded entire institutions dedicated to upholding the lies they use to control our behavior, to make sure we don't remember, to make sure we produce the right kind of "milk".  So I believe as the Toltecs did that there's nothing "wrong" with us that rejecting those lies and believing in truth won't "fix".  We aren't the predators we're behaving like.  We act like that because along with the lies we received the predator's mind.  When we replace the lies with truth we find our own mind, our true self, and we no longer act like the predator.  Then we no longer have the victim mentality either, having empowered ourselves by accepting full responsibility for our lives based on our natural integrity.

Re: The Fall - the biggest lie?

True,

But just because we take the new mindset and beliefs, does not make it complete. We still have to renew our minds and hearts and seek to completely expel the fear and unbelief etc. We have to make it now our reality.

Peace,
Teddy

"It means the Matrix can't tell you who you are" - Trinity

Re: The Fall - the biggest lie?

Great Topic, Ermolai,

I don't think it's a real conspiracy, I think it's more an beautifull allegory with different explanations, with good and bad (manipulated) explanations.

ermolai wrote:

All religions on the world, including the New Age, have the myth of the Fall at their root. I had even come to accept it using some serious twists of mind, but now I'm starting to deeply reconsider it. What if all these myths were a Grand Way to make us feel guilty to exist, in need of justifying every aspects of our being?

Could be, it can also be a big hint for the ones who try to find the Truth.
I think, the best allegory is the one only the good (wise) understands and the bad (or unwise)  doesn't recognizes.

These beliefs are so rooted in our unconscious that even those who consider themselves atheists keep on following them blindly. Think about the policeman requesting papers. How many people feel that there is something seriously wrong with that?

Yes and no, sometimes you wish there is some "monitoring" and order  to prevent chaos.

There is something more pervert to this belief. All the energy/attention that we spend trying to heal/save/correct/fix ourselves is energy that we cannot use to accomplish our destiny.

Good point, good remark.

But think about this: Before you can take an attempt to go to your destiny, you have to be healed, upgraded, otherwise you can't.

This belief acts like a programme extracting energy from us, taking away our power,

Or just the opposite:

It asks to take our responsibility to learn and to act on that.
And yes you're right, that can take a LOT of energy ...

The same goes for New Agers who go from workshops to workshops to "heal/unblock their chakras", feeling that they need to "fix" themselves before they can go further. But this is a never-ending timeloop, and soon they forget why they have come on this planet in the first place! (I believe chakras are "healed" when we realign with our Higher Self, because the challenges to accomplish our destiny forces us to do so to continue).

Since those who exploit us feel no guilt for their acts, why should we feel guilty for our mere existence?

I think we have to translate the guilt-feeling in asking questions in what the Fall really means.

I think the Fall story is real and open available for those who take the effort to study it.

I even think the Illuminati are not happy the Fall story is (still) available for us.

Atlantean Magic: safe, simple and enjoying a good lifetime.

Re: The Fall - the biggest lie?

Just found this.  Really seems to fit this thread.
http://www.mindmined.com/public_library … stion.html

The interpretation of the “gods“?, the Anunnaki themselves, as mythic, unreal beings (academic mythologists) and Jungian archetypes (Joseph Campbell) and the relegation of them to schizophrenic hallucination ( Julian Jaynes ) has been gradually disproven beginning with the acknowledgment of the reality of the events attributed to them; the discounting of the arguments for their unreality due to the seeming fantastic deeds attributed to them by the development of our technology (rockets, lasers, radio communication, genetic engineering, atomic and particle beam weapons) that duplicate those feats. This interpretation has been implemented further by the pioneering exploration and questions posed by von Daniken and then completed by the comprehensive and brilliant demonstrations of Sitchin and Sir Laurence Gardner, the English historian and genealogist. The mythic interpretation has been supported by religions because to recognize the Anunnaki as real would be to open the door to a radical reinterpretation of the entire phenomenon of religion and put into question the real identity of the very deity at center of their belief system. Gardner has brought to light, however, the fact that there exists a robust, highly documented history carrying all the way back to the Anunnaki, possessed by the heterodox tradition of Christianity. This tradition is the one branded heretical and murderously persecuted by the Roman Church before and during the Inquisition. There was no Dark Ages for this tradition, only for those whom the Church wanted to keep in the dark about the real nature of human history.

Working from the same archaeological discoveries, artifacts, and recovered records as archaeologists and linguists have for two hundred years, Sitchin propounds – proves, in the opinion of this author --that the Anunnaki (Sumerian: “those who came down from the heavens“?), an advanced civilization from the tenth planet in our solar system, splashed down in the Persian gulf area around 432,000 years ago, colonized the planet, with the purpose of obtaining large quantities of gold. Some 250,000 years ago the recovered documents tell us their lower echelon miners rebelled against the conditions in the mines and the Annunaki directorate decided to create a creature to take their place. Enki, their chief scientist and Ninhursag their chief medical officer, after getting no satisfactory results splicing animal and homo-erectus genes, merged their Anunnaki genes with that of Homo-Erectus and produced us, homo sapiens, a genetically bicameral species, for their purposes as slaves. Because we were a hybrid we could not procreate. The demand for us as workers became greater and we were genetically manipulated to reproduce.
Eventually, we became so numerous that some of us were expelled from the Anunnaki city centers, gradually spreading over the planet. Having become a stable genetic stock and developing more precociously than, perhaps, the Anunnaki had anticipated, the Anunnaki began to be attracted to humans as sexual partners and children were born of these unions. This was unacceptable to the majority of the Anunnaki high council and it was decided to wipe out the human population through a flood that was predictable when Nibiru, the tenth in our solar system and the Anunnaki home planet, came through the inner solar system again (around 12,500 years ago) on one of its periodic 3600 year returns. Some humans were saved by the action of the Anunnaki, Enki, who was sympathetic to the humans he had originally genetically created. For thousands of years we were their slaves, their workers, their servants, their soldiers in their political battles among themselves. The Anunnaki used us in the construction of their palaces (we retroproject the religious notion of temple on these now), their cities, their mining and refining complexes and their astronomical installations on all the continents. They expanded from Mesopotamia to Egypt to India to South and Central America and the stamp of their presence can be found in the farthest reaches of the planet.

Around 6000 years ago they, probably realizing that they were going to phase off the planet, began to gradually bring humans to independence. Sumer, a human civilization, amazing in its “sudden“? and mature and highly advanced character was set up under their tutelage in Mesopotamia, human kings were inaugurated as go-betweens, foremen of the human populations answering to the Annunaki. Some humans were taught technology, mathematics, astronomy, advanced crafts and the ways of civilized society. The high civilizations of Egypt and Central America arose.

The Anunnaki became somewhat more remote from humans. By around 1250 B.C. they had gone into their final phase-out mode. The human population and the foremen kings, now left on their own, began to fend for themselves. For some three thousand years, subsequently, we humans have been going through a traumatic transition to independence. Proprietary claims made by various groups of humans as to who knew what we should be doing to get the Anunnaki to return or when they returned, perpetuated the palace and social rituals learned under the Anunnaki and sometimes disagreement and strife broke out between them. Religion, as we know it, took form, focused on the “god“? or “gods“?, clearly and unambiguously known to the humans who were in contact with them as imperfect, flesh and blood humanoids, now absent. It was only much later that the Anunnaki were eventually sublimated into cosmic character and status and, later on, mythologized due to remoteness in time.

The recovered records place the location of the Anunnaki laboratory where the first humans were literally produced in east central Africa just above their gold mines. This falls precisely on the map where the mitochondrial DNA “search for Eve“? places the first woman homo-sapiens sapiens and in the same time frame. The evidence of advanced genetic engineering is all there in the ancient documents.. Our rapid progress from inception to going to Mars soon, after only 250,000 years, does not correspond to the million year periodicities of slow evolutionary development of other species such as homo erectus before us. The HH paradigm shows that the Creationists were only half wrong and the Evolutionists only half right: there was a creation event but it was a genetic engineering process; there is an evolutionary process but it was interrupted in our regard by the Anunnaki for their own practical purposes. We shall be forced to introduce an additional category: a synthesized species.

We will shortly have the entire human genome read out. That process and the information available as a result should afford us the opportunity to examine the entire genome for the evidence of the merging of the two species gene codes, Homo Erectus and Anunnaki. A protocol for such a novel determination would have to be developed. A potential problem may lie in the fact that the melding took place some 250,000 –200,000 years ago. A practical spin-off of the effort may be not only the identification of the two codes or, at least, the indication of the basic merging, but evidence for why we have some four thousand cataloged genetic diseases and other species on this planet hardly any at all. It is at least a reasonable speculation that imperfections due to the complexity of the major merging of the two genomes is the cause of those defects in the first place.

The Negative Factors Still Operant In Human Cultures Springing From Our History As A Genetically Engineered, Subservient Race

The First Factor: Background Of Conditioning to Subservience

The overwhelming evidence from the Sitchin paradigm demonstrates conclusively that we were genetically engineered by the Anunnaki and treated as slaves and then limited partners but always as subservient to them. The major ramification (Neil Freer: Breaking the Godspell) of the Sitchin explication is that “religion“?, as we have known it, is the transmutation, the transmutation of the Anunnaki-human relationship of master-subject servitude, of slavery and then limited, subservient partnership. The Anunnaki phased off this planet at the latest around 1250 B.C.


Since then, we have been going through phases of a traumatic transition to species maturity and independence. The major characteristic of this process has been the transmutation in all cultures of them, in particular Enlil/Jehovah in Western culture, into a cosmic deity, commonly called “God“? in the Judaeo-Christian tradition. (Is this atheism? No, not as such. It simply is a long overdue correction of some local, intra-solar system politics, relatively rather pedestrian in cosmic perspective. Garden variety atheism can now be understood as an early sign of precocious species adolescent rebellion and questioning of the authority of the obviously all too humanoid characteristics of the particular local Nefilim "god" of the Hebrew tribe and Christianity, Yahweh/Jehovah. The new paradigm, once the ancient, subservient godspell is dispelled, simply frees us to go one on one with the universe and to seek directly whatever unthinkable or thinkable ultimate principle is behind it.) In a later phase we have mythologized them into unreal beings and then, more “sophisticatedly“? into psychological archetypes. Only with cumulative evidence and restored history through modern scholarship have we now been enabled to grasp the true nature of our genetic creation, our traumatic transition, and the opportunity to emerge from species adolescence and amnesia into species maturity.

The Second Factor: The Babel Factor, The Splintering Of The Human
Race Into Hostile Religions

And then they phased off the colony planet. Pretty much just left without closing the laboratory door, apparently beginning around 1250 B.C.. The foreman-kings are suddenly depicted in the stone carvings standing where they used to stand when listening to instructions from the master pointing to the master's now empty chair in utter dismay. The laments are still engraved in the clay tablets "What do I do when my master is no longer here to instruct me...what shall I tell the people." We went into grief, despair, denial. We blamed ourselves and looked to the sky for their return. The good kings did their best, the leaders sometimes were told to go up the mountain to get some instructions long distance from space or make a wooden box lined with metal just so to act as a receiver. "Now hear this". Finally we were alone and in confusion, beginning to fight over who still knew what the master really said, really meant, what we really should be doing if he did show up. Service at their table transmuted into ritual sacrifice of food, attendance at their baths turned into bathing and clothing of surrogate statues of them and gradually the routine services turned into cargo-cult rituals and their palaces became empty temples. And the less than good kings began to take advantage, began to swagger. Sometimes they got away with it on their own. Sometimes the people, in desperation, raised their king to a symbolic god. And the god-king and the seed of the notion of the divine right of kings became. And the chief servants went along with it because it was to their advantage to become known as priests or to preserve their jobs and status. And those who had been taught, seeing that the advanced knowledge of technologies and science and the arts, learned as part of their function, of writing, mathematics, astronomy, science, metallurgy, and the fine crafts in general was being lost set an agenda to preserve it. In the face of misunderstanding and threat they disguised it, withdrew it, hid it. And the "occult" became.

Eventually, the situation evolved to a very macabre stage. In an effort to demonstrate our subservience and zeal to make things right if they would just come back we kept the rules, we maintained the routines of service but , after a long time of disappointment, we reached a point of abject, abysmal desperation where we would do anything to get them to come back -- and we did. Remembering the Nefilim males' attraction to our young women, we began to cut their hearts out on top of the empty pyramidal palaces in a collective craven pleading shriek to the heavens from whence they had come and gone. But that unspeakable and unappreciated horror could not last: we began to doubt, to entertain frightening cynicism, secret thoughts of independence and why bother.

Slowly a classic dissociative process developed due to separation in time and we began to sublimate the flesh and blood Nefilim into cosmic absolutes and their personalities into mythic archetypes. Looking back over the history of our species the traumatic transition we have gone through might well be characterized as the creation of the concept of a cosmic God by us, through a series of psychological mutational phases. Eventually, we simply began to forget.

The transition from species amnesia to species maturity has been a very traumatic passage. Breaking the godspell has seen us go through the stages of abandonment to dissociation, to transmutation to religion to rebellion and now to recovery. It is analogous to the dysfunctional family syndrome on a planetary scale.

So, down to our day, incredibly, we have remained still Babel-factored for good crowd control, broken into tribes each proprietarily telling the other that ours is the only accurate tradition of what some particular “god“? intended, what rules to follow, what we should be doing to demonstrate we are still loyal and docile servants. Sometimes we just kill each other over it. And persecutions, Crusades, Jihads, Inquisitions, evil empires, the saved and the damned, the martyr, the infidel, the saint, the protestant, the fundamentalist, the atheist, became -- and remain.

The Third Factor:
A Tradition Of Absolutism, Suppression and Repression

It is the nature of the historical events by which Yahweh/Jehovah became the monotheistic (single, supreme-- and alien) “god“? of the Hebrews which furnishes the third key to how the UFO/Alien and the Sitchin Human History Paradigm are interrelated.

Modern scholarship, working on the foundations laid as far back as the German school, has reassessed the Old Testament. When the Mesopotamian records began to be unearthed in the 1800’s, it was realized that the history revealed from 4000 B.C. forward, was the source of the history of the Old Testament. The Jews, allowed to be confined to captivity by the Babylonians by their “god“? Jehovah, had drawn on that history and committed forgery (Sitchin) by rewriting it to their need to establish Enlil/Jehovah as their supreme ruler. That history shows clearly that two Anunnaki brothers, Enlil and Enki had always been at odds with each other personally and politically. Enki was the Anunnaki scientist who, together with his half-sister scientist sister, Ninhursag, had created humans and had always been favorable to them. Enlil had always had reservations about humans and dominated them with severity.

Gardner has made the case (Bloodline Of The Holy Grail, Genesis Of the Grail Kings) that when the Old Testament referred to The Lord (Adonai, Enki) it was when good things were being done to or for the Hebrews. When terrible things were being done or allowed to happen to them, the reference was always to Jehovah/Yahweh, Enlil) and it was to Enlil’s dominance that they finally capitulated and worshipped in fear. Enki (The Lord, Adonai) initiated a bloodline of human leaders, further enhanced with Anunnaki genes and taught the advanced scientific knowledge they possessed (Gardner). This royal bloodline, coming down through David and the anointed messiehs (anointed ones) was recognized but treated ambiguously by the large faction of the Hebrews who paid allegiance to Enlil. The Old Testament, a collection of books from which some considered unacceptable were excluded because they would contradict the forgeries necessary to establish Enlil as supreme, promulgates a religious attitude based in subservience and “fear of God“?. It is this attitude, an extension of the ancient master-slave relationship which is at root of Western culture and the pervasive looking to the holders of power and dominance as ultimate and often absolute authority.
The scenario replayed itself when the strain of Judaism that eventually became known as Christian allied itself with Rome and became the Roman Church. It perpetuated the Enlil type fear of God tradition and, in its turn, suppressed, persecuted and brutalized the human-centered strain of Christianity springing from the tradition fostered by Enki.

It was this powerful religion of the Bishops and the Inquisition which could torture, main and kill to dominate and control that also controlled and dictated to the early Universities. Our schools of higher “learning“? still parade the trappings of the Medieval university on ceremonial occasions and, unfortunately, all too often still in their limitation of discussion to approved subjects.

This policy and position of dominant absolute authority on the part of the Roman Church extended itself gradually in the modality of the Roman political and military way and controlled and formed governments and government policies through kings and queens whose crowns were bestowed by the Church. Its policies unchanged, the Inquisition exists under the title of the Sacred Congregation. The latter day solution to the religious mayhem, always just under the surface, developed in the U. S. Constitution, still saw it necessary to give deference to the fearful God of the Judaeo-Christian tradition, Yahweh/Jehovah -- Enlil the Anunnaki, alien “god“?.

There's a lot more to check out at the link.

11 (edited by Atlantis 2005-01-16 14:36:58)

Re: The Fall - the biggest lie?

There is also an Root Esoteric Theory independent of the Alien story.

The fall of man was when angelic beings were trapped in physical reality.

Thus at first we were all non-physical (multi-dimensional) high-intelligent beings/angels who became physical in 3D/time and got difficulties to return back as an angel.

After this fall the galactic and alien stories came upon, no matter how.

Just a theory (which I think, contains a lot of truth) from:

- Gnostic texts
- Rosicrucian texts
- Egyptian Mystery schools
- Occultists like Robert Fludd and Jacob Boehme

Atlantean Magic: safe, simple and enjoying a good lifetime.