1 Topic by Marcus (edited by Marcus 2004-12-04 08:49:05)

  • Registered: 2004-10-15

Topic: "Debates" on spiritual issue (or states of the mind).

It seems that when someone attacks our perspective we often get very defensive.

I used to post a lot of stuff on various forums with regards to spirituality, the matrix, the nature of the mind etc.  And more often then not it was completely misunderstood.  Usually this misunderstanding was a result of a number of things, some of which were:

1)  People over relying on general consensus or indoctrinated thought patterns...and therefore falling back upon things to (often vehemently) attack a viewpoint.

2)  People misunderstanding the usage of a certain word.  i.e.  I would use the word "Spirituality"; which has certain meaning to me and others here.  However, someone else would interpret the word "Spirituality" as having the same properties as "religion".  And therefore they would attack your viewpoint due to their associating negative concepts with religion - (or whatever word they used).

There are of course many other methods that people induce themselves to, which mean they fall to a total misconception of the ideas I was trying to convey.

Of course, because at that point I would attempt to be idealistic which meant I would take up the task of attempting to better relate my view.  This all to often became very personal with me spending hours (if not days) arguing over and over on the same issue.

Ultimately all this would boil down to was hammering each other over the head with our opinions, which were in essence formed upon our beliefs and available knowledge.

Eventually, after much self-reflection, I learnt to open up further areas of my being, and garnered a greater understand of myself…and of the nature of the mind.  One of the results of this – has been that I have learnt not to take so many things personally.  Thus I no longer waste hours discussing issues with all kinds of people, in an attempt to try and validate my own “opinions“?.

However that said – I still on occasion come across a situation whereby I put forth a subject, and it is so totally and utterly misunderstood.  (Maybe due to the way in which I write, or else because of the aforementioned reasons e.g. 1 and 2 above).  This leads me to a lot of frustration…not because I want the other person to “assimilate“? into the ideas I have conveyed; but rather because they totally - through bullish statements and stubborn opinionated reasoning -  misunderstand or ignore.

Now yes, that is the nature of the mind; it is also the nature of the Matrix.  But I find it is a drain.  If I put too much energy into better assisting understanding of my intentions / message; I find this becomes a gargantuan task that descends further and further into uselessness.

If I decide to break from the issue and “cut my losses“?, it plays on my mind – again draining my energies.

Maybe it’s a case of knowing how this all works but not truly accepting it.  Maybe these challenges come for a reason and I am failing to notice how to focus on them and learn from them.

How many others experience this?  And what do you do to deal with it?

Thought Manifestation

Marcus's Website

  • From: Nashville, TN (Davidson Co)
  • Registered: 2004-09-14

Re: "Debates" on spiritual issue (or states of the mind).

Marcus,

I have xperienced similar situations to the ones you described in your post.  Often times, when attempting to convey my point of view, I would encounter heavy resistance.  This includes but is not limited to attacks on my personal character, childish name-calling and total distortion of my words.  Trying to level with someone who is currently subjugated to the Control System and all of the parameters it utilizes on the mind is not only energy draining but mentally frustrating.  (I think the energy drain is the root cause of the mental frustration) 

The best advice I can offer when faced with this scenario is to keep your composure.  The person(s) use a variety of commonplace methods to throw you off your game, and I have found the distortion of words to be one of the most effective.  The worst thing you can do in this event is restort to the same methods of debate (albeit childish, rude and demeaning) that the person counters with. 

If the intuitive feeling of a looming debate manifests itself, I usually go on the offense quickly.  However, some of the weapons in my arsenal are actually quite reserved.  For instance, if I feel the conversation headed towards a debate on a sticky topic, I will throw in a random compliment about the other person that I may have noticed earlier.  This may avert the impending debate altogether, but its purpose is to give a little peace of mind by using covert techniques to ease the person's pysche.  You are attempting to convey the message that you have no intent of alterting this person's belief system or attacking their morals; you are simply looking for an open, docile discussion on issues that affect us all.

Regards,
WMHAOI

Though it may divide us, energy will eventually unite us.
  • Registered: 2004-03-28

Re: "Debates" on spiritual issue (or states of the mind).

Defensiveness of one's views stems from beliefs, because beliefs are held by the ego. Just as the ego defines itself by attitude and personality, it also defines itself by beliefs. So when your beliefs are "attacked," the ego feels attacked, and feels it must defend itself.

Beliefs, as long as you hold them, will always be flimsy targets of criticism. Since you don't know whether they're actually true or not, beliefs can easily be knocked down by others since there's not enough evidence to allow them to stand on their own. If there's enough evidence for a concept to stand on its own, it doesn't need to be defended by the ego, since it's an observable fact and not a belief.

If you find yourself overly defensive of your viewpoint, you must learn to detach yourself from beliefs. Detach your ego from beliefs. Don't allow your ego to define itself by them.

You must also consider whether these beliefs you're so defensive of, serve you. To me, beliefs serve no practical purpose purpose except in the realm of mental comfort. They're crude imaginings of Man about what may or may not be.

If you no longer wish to get defensive of your spiritual viewpoints, you must move from the realm of belief to the realm of knowing. If you know something to be true, and someone attacks it, how could you possibly get upset? If someone told you the concept of gravity was stupid and ridiculous, would you do anything more than laugh it off? Things which are known don't require any defense, because they can be observed and proved.

Take every belief you have, and critically examine it. Don't involve your ego in this process. You'll find some things you've believed, that you're so sure of, and you can say, "I know this to be true. I no longer have to defend this if other people think differently." There'll be many more beliefs, though, that you're not sure of, where there's not enough evidence to conlude anything for sure. For these, just know they're a possibility, and that you don't have to become attached to the outcome of whether they're true or not. Don't attach a belief to either outcome of the probability. That way, you're not upset either way when you learn the truth.

  • Registered: 2004-04-21

Re: "Debates" on spiritual issue (or states of the mind).

Good advice, Seeker.  We all see things from our own point of view, because we can't know exactly what's in someone else's head.  So if someone says something about you or your beliefs, it's not personal and can never be personal.  So, there's no reason to take anything personally.

  • Registered: 2004-10-15

Re: "Debates" on spiritual issue (or states of the mind).

Thanks for the replies.

How you mention this Seeker is exactly how I see it.  It is also how I have seen it for quite a long time now.

However; for some reason I still get caught up in it all.  Maybe it is a case of me believing it but not truly knowing it?

Thought Manifestation

Marcus's Website

  • From: The infinte point
  • Registered: 2004-09-13

Re: "Debates" on spiritual issue (or states of the mind).

Hold truly what u believe to be true and believe it wholey (sp) in yourself, but always remember to always seek to change in what u believe for the universe is constantly changing and is never set in stone!

"Life's not meant to be a struggle" Stuart Wilde
We are one and the same on a different path to the same destination