• From: US
  • Registered: 2004-09-21

Topic: Lessons from the 'Ark' Encounter

Good Morning All,

The interchange with Ark hit me pretty hard.  I had been viewing the casschat group for a long time and had been trying to get in sync with everyone there, but hadn't been able to manage it.  Now I understand why.  This morning I unsubscribed to the group.  Part of me wanted to engage Ark more, but I got a 'warning' feeling that his reference to the Washington Times article was somehow intended to be a trap for me. 

As crazy as it sounds, part of me resonates with them in both positive and (gulp-swallow pride) negative ways.  I have wanted to let Ark and Laura know that I believe we have a strong past life connection.  I reacted strongly to the story in Grace, where Laura described her past life in Germany when Ark was killed and she committed suicide.  When I read it, I just started shaking and crying uncontrollably.  It felt like I had *been there*.  I am not sure if I actually was there, but I just have this strong gut feeling that I 'know' her or at least did know her.  I care about them, but Lord knows what would have happened had I dared mention this on casschat sad .

Now the hard part.  I can see how Laura has moved in the direction that she has.  I have been fighting to understand that similar, arrogant part of my personality, and get rid of it.  Ark's behavior provided a mirror to me.  I do have the seeds of similar traits, lacking consideration to others who have helped me, being absorbed in my own dramas, and not letting go of my past hurts.  I've been through a lot of the things that she has: emotionally unavailable mother, abuse, rape, etc.  There are, of course, many differences.  And some of the attempts to lead me down this path have fortunately failed.  I was almost led into paranoia by one of my ex's, being drawn into his paranoid world.  Ark has solidified my conviction that it is more important to know how to recognize your friends AND appreciate them, than to recognize your 'enemies' .  In the past I have also been guilty of intellectual hubris.  Fortunately I had an experience that  changed my views.  I had the opportunity to witness someone who was a really nice guy, but very intellectually-challenged.  This nice guy was verbally abused by someone who was of average intelligence and towards whom I had adopted a bit of a smug attitude.  I finally rejected this attitude, but again Ark's behavior here *really* drove that lesson home.

I think the cause of this hubris and lack of consideration for me has come from being traumatized and then isolated, not having someone to turn to for comfort, especially when I was young.  That really attacks one's sense of self worth.  It is highly probable (only Ark and Laura would know for sure) that this is what happened to them.  Then, having the ego boost of being 'chosen' by the C's made it that much more prominant.  Soooo, the lessons I draw from this are:

1) It is much, much, much, more important to recognize and appreciate your friends than it is to recognize your enemies, OP or otherwise.

2) The past is not nearly as important as NOW, although healing past wounds is necessary.

3) Anyone can be used as a vector of attack, including Ark, including ME.  I need to be aware not only of how I may be attacked, but how I may be used to attack someone else.  Naturally, the primary means of doing this are working on my self.
As a result of this encounter I will redouble my efforts in that direction.

Thanks Ark.  All there is is lessons and you just gave me some big ones. smile

Kathy

Never Give Up!

freeme's Website

  • From: little england
  • Registered: 2004-06-11

Re: Lessons from the 'Ark' Encounter

Evening Freeme, All,

Thanks for your input on your relationship to discovering that something you value is not what it seems to be. That is how I would describe the unveiling that occured when I met Ark and Laura. Believe me, I really wanted to like them. I needed to like them because my own insecure ego could not accept that I had to stand on my own. I wanted to lean on them. I wanted to be led by an honourable leader.

Of course in an STS world, most of us are likely to have had very challenging life experiences, including abuse, traumas, psychotic parenting etc. What initially surprised me somewhat is how Laura will write reams on her life experiences, but cannot bring herself to truly empathise with another soul in distress. I have watched her and realise now that her 'empathy' is based on feeling superior somehow to the person concerned. She will empathise with you if she feels you are no threat to her sense of self-importance, or if it suits her current agenda. ie can you be useful to her?.

Like you, I can see how this behaviour might be masking unresolved rage as a result of early life experiences. I agree 100% with the lessons you have gleaned from the experience. I am no psychologist, but I do now finally understand that we have to take responsibility for our own growth.

Freeme wrote:

I think the cause of this hubris and lack of consideration for me has come from being traumatized and then isolated, not having someone to turn to for comfort, especially when I was young.  That really attacks one's sense of self worth.  It is highly probable (only Ark and Laura would know for sure) that this is what happened to them.  Then, having the ego boost of being 'chosen' by the C's made it that much more prominant.

As time went on and the value of what the Cs said became more clear, plus more tellingly, when the Cassiopaea experiment took on global proportions and mushroomed into a large organisation, the question of who the Cs were became crucial. Laura has underestimated the impact of group dynamics. As I understand it from her telling of the story, there was a group of people that met regularly for sessions with the Cs. They all helped to "groove" the channel over time. Someone called "Frank" was put up as the bogeyman responsible for corrupting the material, thus if there are any inconsistencies we can always blame "Frank". This may be true, but Frank was not alone.

As to the existing group that is working, donating money and doing research to keep the experiment viable, there seemed to be little consideration for their value to the experiment. It was almost as though people had to prove their worth, and those that passed the intellectual test fared best. So what I found was a 4th Way intellectualism dominating expression, and if you didn't speak that language, tough on you - you would have to go and work on it. This was my conclusion from the sometimes horrendous lack of external consideration I noticed from both Ark and Laura. Whatever happened to Ark's assertion on cass chat, that we should work to being able to explain thse complex ideas we discuss so that a child can understand them?.

As Lyra mentioned, the available sessions have been heavily edited, and not to just remove personal issues and protect the identity of the participants I think. Noetheless, they are still great value to me as I love the energy, humour and straight talking of the Cs.

It is a great tragedy to me that this valuable channel of communication seems to  been broken or co-opted more likely, by 4th density STS energies. Someone mentioned picking up a heavy black energy when they saw pictures of people from a recent QFS workshop in France. If you want to consider looking at the signs from this "sign" level, I'd add another incident that occured in and around the first workshop held sometime this Summer. Apparently a couple of old oak trees around the Chateau ust toppled over on two separate, sunny windless days. The roots were found to have been rotten. Unfortunatley these oaks took down some other healthy trees that were either supporting them, or within the vicinity of their path of falling.

Now, if you view the world as a symbol system, and perhaps consider that the world and nature in particular, speaks to us in volumes if we could only tune in, then you might see where I am coming from. When I heard the story of the falling oaks, it sent a chill down my spine and served as a confirmation that I was right to have left the experiment. That my seeing was not an illusion. The first tree to fall, was about as old as Laura's quest for the truth (about 35 years). Rotten roots will fell the mightiest of oaks. But that is just how that incident spoke to me.

To the people at the Chateau, it was a truimphant sign of their work managing to fell oaks with rotten roots. ie a clearing of the way for progress. It all depends on your perspective I suppose. We will see what we want to see, and as the Cs say "you will do what you will do". The work is about actually seeing objectively, and unfortunately the Cassiopaea crew sometimes kid themselves that they are seeing reality as it is, both externally and internally. I think their progress on the internal viewing is their achilles heel. theory is too far ahead of practice with respect to how to treating others as you would like them to treat you.  In order for that to change, Laura and Ark would have to live this by example. I am not holding my breath for that one.

I should know; I was once one of them, and the sense of self-importance this type of hubris can engender is horrendous. But the group "timbre"  or tone is a reflection of the nature of its leadership. There is no group mechanism to guard against extreme ego within the leadership, especially when it is skillfully wrapped in a Gurdjieffian style intellectual cloak.

But we grow/grew nonetheless, and I and others grew to see the truth, despite our terror of it. Others felt it insitinctively and never walked in the door. I wish all at Cassiopaea well, but I know the feeling is not reciprocated, as they sent me a malicious virally infected email months after I had left. I sent it back to Ark, giving him the benefit of the doubt by saying that I thought someone was using their name to send infected emails. To the computer literate out there, is it possible for me to send an email and make up a name like miminikelo@montalk.net, without the domain owner not being aware? I am not sure, but I doubt it. The fact that there was no reply after I sent the email back speaks volumes to me.  I have not been forgiven for just leaving. Their paranoia leads them to assume I will do a Vincent Bridges and make it part of my life mission to expose them. I think they are doing a very good job of exposing themselves.

Finally, I think another valuable lesson, to add to your list Freeme, is that, the message is more important than the messenger.

Knowledge does indeed protect.

mimi

"the truth the whole truth, and nothing but the truth"
  • Registered: 2004-08-19

Re: Lessons from the 'Ark' Encounter

It is easy to change the email address in the "From:" header field of an email to anything (basically any email program can fake an email address by configuring it incorrectly on purpose). Some (i.e. properly configured) mailservers will only allow mail that belongs to their domain to pass through, but most mailservers will just send anything they receive from their clients.

When such an altered email is shown in a normal email program, it will at first appear to have come from a different domain. When analysing the message more thoroughly (i.e. viewing the full headers) one can usually detect that the message has been tampered with (by reviewing the chain of "Received" header fields and see if the first mailserver to deliver the message is in the same domain as the email address).

See for example http://www.windowsitlibrary.com/Content/212/01/1.html for some more information on email.

  • From: little england
  • Registered: 2004-06-11

Re: Lessons from the 'Ark' Encounter

Hi Aprogas,

Thanks for the info on the finer joys of emails. I am not techno phobic; just inexpereinced at using  computers, and my head spins when I read documents like that, so perhaps I need a good night's sleep before I tackle that one!.

Does that mean that if the first mailerserver to deliver the message is in the same domain as in the email address, then they sent the email to me themselves, rather than someone tampering with it?.

If it wouldn't be an imposition on you, could you assist me in analysing the source of this email sent by someone with a cassiopaea.com email address? No sweat, but I am curious to know for sure if they sent this themselves. I can forward you what I received.

Thanks,

mimi

"the truth the whole truth, and nothing but the truth"

5 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2004-10-25 17:46:24)

  • lyra
  • lyra
  • Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
  • Offline
  • From: my own private idaho
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Lessons from the 'Ark' Encounter

miminikelo wrote:

I needed to like them because my own insecure ego could not accept that I had to stand on my own. I wanted to lean on them. I wanted to be led by an honourable leader.

Hi mimminikelo!  I read your posts, in this thread and the other two and it's weird because you say so many of the same things I've said about the whole situation.  Starting with the above quote.   I recently wrote something nearly identical to this "psychological assessment" to another NR member / former QFS member in a private email.  I was never a member of the QFS, thankfully, but I did a brief "psycho analysis" if you will of those who are members, and what I concluded was basically what you just wrote.   What I felt was that many of the die-hard members are there because they're lost in the world.  They haven't found any religion that suits them, they come across the Cass group, and boom, something just clicks for them.  Not only that, but they're looking for a strong, parental authority figure to "lead them".  They want to curl up in the nice safe nest that is the Cass group and "belong."  Cause it's so nice and cozy when one finally has a place where they belong.   Even better when one becomes "on the inside", and is close to Laura and Ark, part of the "inner circle."   It makes them feel special.   Laura and Ark with their natural strong and domineering personalities then become the authoritative parental figures.  People defer to Laura for obvious reasons;  but most defer to Ark merely because he is this "world famous physicist."  For people who like to look up to those with titles, that means a lot.   And you must do as they say, and be the way that they want you to be.   If you obey, you can stay in.  If you misbehave, you're out.   


miminikelo wrote:

  As I understand it from her telling of the story, there was a group of people that met regularly for sessions with the Cs. They all helped to "groove" the channel over time. Someone called "Frank" was put up as the bogeyman responsible for corrupting the material, thus if there are any inconsistencies we can always blame "Frank". This may be true, but Frank was not alone.

So you noticed this too!  In the other thread when I talked about Laura editing the transcripts when she has a "falling out" with someone and reworking them, a big part of what I was thinking about was Frank, not just my own personal encounter.   People need to realize that Frank, whoever he is, was a MAJOR reason why the whole C's thing even happened.  He was there from day 1.   He WAS the reason the channel was so grooved the way it was.  All of those early transcripts that we all like so much?  We have Frank to thank for that.   But to hear Laura tell it now, he's the devil himself. A real bogeyman, like you said.   History has been completely rewritten, to suit her current bitterness.   And new members without any background won't know just how integral he was to the entire early Pre-Ark C's channeling.  It most certainly was NOT all Laura, that's for sure.  And you know while I'm at it, let's give props to Auendove too.  Give some more credit where credit is due.   She was there in most of the early sessions, lending her energy and her time as well, which also helped groove the channel.  The way she was shunted to the side after 9 years of dedication is bs.   Laura would have people believe it's all her.   Sorry, but there was a **group** respoinsible for making it happen.  Not just one person doing it all.   Those people receive no credit now though. 

On a related note, I hope people are seeing how Laura and Ark can't just part ways with people on nice terms.  You know, you go your way, I'll go mine.  Thanks for the memories, it was cool while it lasted.  Maybe we'll have better luck in the next life. wink   Nope, with them it has to be slash and burn.  Burn bridges with EVERYBODY they're done with, and villify them.  Burn em at the stake.   


miminikelo wrote:

   It was almost as though people had to prove their worth, and those that passed the intellectual test fared best.

Another spot on observation, thank you.   I've said the same thing. 


miminikelo wrote:

So what I found was a 4th Way intellectualism dominating expression, and if you didn't speak that language, tough on you - you would have to go and work on it. This was my conclusion from the sometimes horrendous lack of external consideration I noticed from both Ark and Laura. Whatever happened to Ark's assertion on cass chat, that we should work to being able to explain thse complex ideas we discuss so that a child can understand them?.

THANK YOU!   I've commented on the same thing. 


miminikelo wrote:

  If you want to consider looking at the signs from this "sign" level, I'd add another incident that occured in and around the first workshop held sometime this Summer. Apparently a couple of old oak trees around the Chateau ust toppled over on two separate, sunny windless days. The roots were found to have been rotten. Unfortunatley these oaks took down some other healthy trees that were either supporting them, or within the vicinity of their path of falling....The first tree to fall, was about as old as Laura's quest for the truth (about 35 years). Rotten roots will fell the mightiest of oaks. But that is just how that incident spoke to me.

This is absolutely WILD. Very symbolic.   Thanks for sharing this.  And you're right...there are two ways of looking at it.   They see it their way, we see it our way. wink


miminikelo wrote:

   but I know the feeling is not reciprocated, as they sent me a malicious virally infected email months after I had left. ....The fact that there was no reply after I sent the email back speaks volumes to me.  I have not been forgiven for just leaving.

Yup.  What was saying again about burn 'em at the stake?  Slash and burn?  Burning bridges?  wink    Can't just leave in peace.  It has to be vicious and bitter.  Can't respect that people have shared time with them and respect it for what it was worth and let them go in peace.   HAVE to kick up a big stink and go after them.  Very predatory, hmm?   

Something else I want to add here which is a carryover from another thread is the incredible psychological scarring....and fear!...... that former members take with them after leaving.  Not "fear for their lives!" or something crazy like that.   But fear of verbal attack and of having their character assasinated in front of the public on the Cass forums, being dragged through the mud, accused of being an "OP", accused of being an "MCS agent", etc.   I am APPALLED at this.  Members walk on eggshells over there.....and many continue to do so long after parting ways!     I've emailed with one particular former member on the side who's going through this, trying to say something that might help.  But in the end, anybody who's going through that really has to work through it on their own, and muster courage to not be afraid of these sorry ass lame-o's sitting on their fat behinds an ocean away, pointing paranoid fingers at the world.  And I hope that all former members who still have that residual psychological scarring - you went as far as to call it "post traumatic stress disorder" miminikelo - but I hope that all those who have this do break free.   Remember everybody - they're just people!   They ain't God!   Don't let anybody, ESPECIALLY them, tell you who you are.  Don't let them tell you who your significant other is either.  The only person who can tell you who you are is YOU.    Just remember that.

And with that, that is my final word on this matter!   Cannot keep "going there."  It's very negative I think.  But I just wanted to get this out there, and bring attention to these points.  I hope that all former members, or people who were just maligned in general, like myself, can move on.  Like Ellie Crystal said, she sees the idea / symbol for "CLOSURE" as the theme for this week.  No kidding!  Closure.  So, that's great advise, all.  Time to dust yourselves off and stand tall and move on.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website

  • From: little england
  • Registered: 2004-06-11

Re: Lessons from the 'Ark' Encounter

"Balor", or QFS person in disguise.

Mimi here. Here are some facts for you to consider.

1) I am a female and so much younger than 60

2) I did not attend the first workshop, but I read the QFS report and discussion of it, hence knowing about the trees falling.

3) All else that you say means your powers of deduction, or is it Laura's psychic antennae need adjusting.

Happy "researching"... I would hate to be the "mimi" you know.

Man, the lessons keep on rolling!!


mimi

"the truth the whole truth, and nothing but the truth"
  • From: US
  • Registered: 2004-09-21

Re: Lessons from the 'Ark' Encounter

Sneaky, sneaky....  To clear the record here, Balor basically just sent a post which accused mimi of being a horny 60+ year old male who harrassed the women at the QFS workshop among other insults.  Instead of appologizing when called on it by the real mimi he has deleted his post. Booo!  Booooo!
Kathy
If he posts again we should save all his quotes in our own posts so he can't change the record here.
Booo!  Boooo!

Never Give Up!

freeme's Website

8 Reply by bumblebee (edited by bumblebee 2004-10-26 10:41:22)

  • bumblebee
  • bumblebee
  • interdimensional intelligence analyst
  • Offline
  • From: tau ceti
  • Registered: 2004-10-18

Re: Lessons from the 'Ark' Encounter

balor wrote:

From what I observed of "mimi" and his actions at the QFS workshop earlier this year, his acussation of a "horrendous lack of external consideration" on the part of Laura and Ark is nothing more than sour grapes. Surely everyone on this forum has encountered the phenomenon before.

As a bystander:
I note that Ark showed lack of external consideration by twisting words around in a public forum.

I note that mimimenkelo is portrayed by Balor as a 60 year old man, and not a female as she portrayes herself here.
So either Balor or miminikelo is not telling the truth.

balor wrote:

We notice that

I note that first Balor talks in the first person then I see Balor is talking with pluralis majestatis. Who are "we", is it perhaps the QFS social memory complex?

Perhaps I should also talk as "we", my posts would sound much more convincing :-)

the eyes of truth are always watching you
  • From: little england
  • Registered: 2004-06-11

Re: Lessons from the 'Ark' Encounter

Hi all,

A lot probably missed what just occured. A Cassiopeanite calling themselves "Balor" just wrote a long post about who they thought I was. Shame I never copied it for your perusal, but basically it was a vicious dissection and "expose" Laura style, of "mimi" who they know as a 60 year old lecherous man that once came to the Chateau!.

As soon as I responded to inform them of thier error, they promptly deleted the post!

Stay awake folks there seems to be plenty of Bull being loaded and heading this way.

Ultimately, I won't play the game of defamation. I just express the truth as I see it, but they play under different rules it would seem.

mimi

"the truth the whole truth, and nothing but the truth"
  • From: little england
  • Registered: 2004-06-11

Re: Lessons from the 'Ark' Encounter

Our posts must have been winging their way through cyberspace at the same time Kathy and Bumblebee.

Glad you caught that manouevre guys!.

Sneaky indeed...

mimi

"the truth the whole truth, and nothing but the truth"
  • lyra
  • lyra
  • Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
  • Offline
  • From: my own private idaho
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Lessons from the 'Ark' Encounter

Don't worry mimi, every time one of them posts over here they just continue to shoot themselves in the foot.   The disguise falls apart, piece by piece.  wink

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website

12 Reply by ermolai (edited by ermolai 2004-10-26 10:19:58)

  • From: sw tz rl nd
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Lessons from the 'Ark' Encounter

2 more days till the full moon! should be interesting... lots and lots of lessons, thank you ALL

ermolai's Website

  • Registered: 2004-04-10

Re: Lessons from the 'Ark' Encounter

This is way better than "reality" shows currently being touted as "entertainment" on TV.  I feel like adding a- whooyah! in an Al Pacino voice smile  Tomorrow is going to be a full moon (total eclipse?)  All I can say it's gonna be interesting to see what transpires, do ya think were gonna have to get out our big shovels to deal with all the big Bull droppings?  He He.  Noah's "ark" must be gettin pretty full by now...Maybe we can donate some shovels to help with the clean up needed...

If there is no time
      Then you have time for everything.
   You're never in a hurry.
That's true freedom.
  • lyra
  • lyra
  • Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
  • Offline
  • From: my own private idaho
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Lessons from the 'Ark' Encounter

manyeagles wrote:

This is way better than "reality" shows currently being touted as "entertainment" on TV.  I feel like adding a- whooyah! in an Al Pacino voice smile  Tomorrow is going to be a full moon (total eclipse?)  All I can say it's gonna be interesting to see what transpires, do ya think were gonna have to get out our big shovels to deal with all the big Bull droppings?  He He.  Noah's "ark" must be gettin pretty full by now...Maybe we can donate some shovels to help with the clean up needed...

big_smile!    It's like Whack-A-Mole at the carnival!   Every time one of them pops up, we bonk it back down!   Earlier I was frowning about all of this, but I'm seeing the humor in it like you manyeagles.   Whack-A-Mole!!!!

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website

  • montalk
  • montalk
  • forum-keeper-upper
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2004-03-24

Re: Lessons from the 'Ark' Encounter

I know Balor, it's my old buddy Joe I met at the Cass conference. He was a cool guy and we got along well, but he joined in on the hysteria at the end and that was the last we talked. Mistaking mimi for a 60 year old horny guy is a funny mistake, and as I said to ark "wishful thinking will get ya everytime". The C's used that phrase in reference to the gleeful overconfidence displayed by STS forces that inevitably leads to them shooting themselves in the foot. In this case of mistaken identity, there was not even an apology...just a foot-in-mouth deletion of the post. So much for that stare of death.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website