Topic: Alignment With Darkness

If duality is an illusion, then why in your opinion might it be a problem to align yourself with darkness?

Aghori ascetics, while being devotees of the Hindu god Shiva, are monists who adhere to the common Hindu belief in liberation (moksha) from the cycle of reincarnation (samsara). This liberation is a realisation of the self's identity with the absolute. Because of this monistic doctrine, the Aghoris maintain that all opposites are identical and that the conventional Hindu distinctions between purity and impurity are ultimately illusory. The purpose of embracing pollution through various practices is the realization of non-duality through transcending social taboos, and seeing the illusory nature of all conventional categories.

In essence, Aghoris base their beliefs on two principles. First, that the gods are perfect. Second, that the gods are responsible for everything; every rock, tree, animal, and even every thought. Due to this, everything that exists must be perfect, and to deny the perfection of anything would be to deny the gods. For this reason, Aghoris are known to prove their faith by challenging pre-conceived notions of the grotesque, and find the beauty or perfection in such conventionally taboo notions as, for example, cannibalism.

I am curious about those who would oppose a philosophy such as the one above, and the reasons why it might be dangerous. I've always thought such philosophies make good points because most of man's beliefs are arbitrary symbols, but I'm not completely sold because I have yet to transcend all social taboos. It seems like there would be some freedom in it though.

Re: Alignment With Darkness

Ignoring the law is easier than ignoring the consequence of ignoring the law!

You may decide your subjective rationalization of an action, but you have no control over the consequence of how it impacts the universe and how the universe impacts you in return. And while you are completely free to do what thou wilt, you cannot escape the consequence of ignoring laws that still rule your existence.

Align with darkness if you wish, but know that it in the end it will not bring you the same amount of freedom, knowledge, power, and fulfillment as aligning with the light. That is because the laws of metaphysics are more real than the laws of physics, and imbalances are inevitably countered by restorative forces. The choice between darkness and light may be subjective, but the consequences are neither subjective nor equal.

Also, with some observation it becomes obvious that those who choose to align with darkness are not choosing out of sobriety, but out of nihilistic or relativistic rationalization of the darkness within that has already won its battle over their spirit. For those with spirit, the choice is obvious; for them it is not a matter of moral philosophizing but a deep and absolute resonance and knowingness about the value of alignment with light, because doing so is alignment with, and expression of, one's true Self.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

3 (edited by Transcix 2007-12-25 23:14:53)

Re: Alignment With Darkness

That the self is not liberated but stuck in Samsara, clearly this expresses that the illusion of convention (Maya) is subjectively true, else there be no point to seek/realize Moksha because it is already realized and Samsara does not exist. The problem with dualizing between fundamentality and conventionality arises wherever the ultimate reality is ever different than the conventional reality of one's life circumstances. This is somewhat resolved by saying that convention is the opposite of the fundamental and the manifest extension thereof, as everything is its opposite. At this point, I find it pertinent to question why we have conventionally arisen from the fundamental if we are meant only to return to it? For me it is less about the ultimate reality and more about me, in simultaneous oneness and difference with the ultimate reality. The ultimate reality cannot exist without its conventional opposite, and so existence has arisen in the first place. Amid too much doctrine and not enough experience and open-minded experimentation, however, the reality of convention is missed. Indeed, for all the ultimate reality's permanence versus Maya's impermanence, still nothing infinite exists apart from the finite. Interestingly, from this perspective is every respective conventional thing not a thing but a movement, automatically thusly connected to its context (for the whole thing is living, in a delicate balance of harmony of equilibrium). The only thing that exists apart from the finite, for all intents and purposes, does not exist, for it is so infinitely subtle; the ultimate reality is reduced to the Tao (or as I like to call it, Nothing). The wind between the things, impermanent life is real and the permanent greater reality is barely visible. A lack of vision? Or an attuned conventional awareness, that can grasp the *flow*, the *way*?

If you get too involved with words, laws, and the existentialist question to which there is rightly no proper answer (as opposed to a reformulation of the question), then you may lose sight of the difference between light and dark. The truth is that right in front of your nose, as Montalk expressed... the universe is aligned more with good than with evil, simply because it exists in the first place as opposed to not, and good is more creative where evil is more destructive.. creation and desctruction are both needed, but creation is primary.. hence the 'laws' of metaphysics, the rebalancing of forces.

nothing is sacred, the deconstructing and letting-be of all things, clarity of sight, the realization of no-thing(s), Nothing

Re: Alignment With Darkness

For me it's a matter of logic.  I see nothing wrong with aligning with the dark forces if someone so chooses.  But such alignment is out of balance.  Alignment with the light is balance.  That's where the idea of service-to-self and service-to-others really makes sense to me.  Service to others ultimately serves self although this is not so readily seen in a society that is made to reward selfishness.  But that serving of All (others and self) is pure balance.  A balance in all directions.  Not simply a dichotomy such as human ideas of good and evil.  It's an expansion in all directions vs. a contraction in one direction.

The logic behind the choice of aligning with the lighter more refined aspects of existence comes from the amount of expansion it affords the individual and all others that individual comes into contact with.  Such expansion is ultimately infinite.  The choice of full concentration on self contracts the essense of existence that the individual has direct control over.  This alignment with the dark more coarse aspects of existence comes with it's price.  Any expansion from enslavement of others is ultimately illusionary due to the imposition of one individual's will over a group.  This can be seen in many group dynamics that have a leader.  The creative aspects of the individuals of the group are suppressed in order that the will of the one may be upheld.  This can also be seen at a macro-scale by viewing the 6+ billion humans as a whole.  With the power falling into fewer and fewer hands the overall potential of humanity is being increasingly lowered.

This shows that the so-called elite are not actually that bright.  The rewards from the empowerment of 6+ billion people would far outweigh the rewards they appear to be enjoying now.  Ultimately, they themselves are slaves to higher forces they aligned with.  They live in fear from both those under their control and their controllers.  It's not an easy way to transverse an existence.

At the more individualistic levels the dark path can be known, understood, embodied, and transmuted without taking the actions associated with that path.  In this way, one who trully wishes to transcend any illusionary duality can do so.  Living on a dark controlled planet also has that advantage of being able to see the fruits of the actions of that path without eating the apple.

We could speak of energy and talk about how the lower e-motions spiral inward and clog the system.  Or how the refined emotions spiral outward without end.  How anger can never be resolved because anger is what it is.  It's a circular emotion (specifically a spiral into self).  Or how love (understanding, acceptance, and appreciation) can go on forever while leaving the system clear for the transmutation of more energy from light.  How the dark path leaves the system clogged and the individual ultimately has to look outside self to sustain it's energy.

We could speak of light (existential knowledge) and use examples such as black holes vs. suns.  How the dark path leads to collapse in onto self and how the light path leads to expansion in all directions.

Many ways to look at it I suppose.  This is just how I understand it.

Re: Alignment With Darkness

When cancer kills host, cancer dies too.

6 (edited by nexus 2007-12-27 03:12:09)

Re: Alignment With Darkness

The fundamental problem the Aghori have is the false premise upon which flows the rest of their 'logic'.

They state " The gods are responsible for everything"... "due to this, everything that exists must be perfect"

It's all downhill from there.

Freewill and individuality is God's gift to each of us.  With that creative power comes personal responsibility. 
Therefore the gods [the generic God] is not responsible for everything.  Individuals are responsible for their own creations and their consequences... as montalk wrote.  The consequences for choosing darkness are, as Z3n3rg wrote, limiting and contracting.

The Aghori have chosen arbitrary concepts such as "social conformity" or other "conventional categories" and then imagine they have "transcended" them, merely by dualistically opposing them. [by the practice of "taboos"].  If the aghori were truly logical they would realise that opposing conventional categories, no matter what their origin, is also part of the dualistic game.  They have not achieved "non- duality" by going against the grain of what society believes about anything.  The beliefs of any society may or may not reflect reality.  The Aghori will achieve "non- duality" by discovering the inner- spirit and allowing their creative impulses to be guided by the will of that spirit.  Being guided by a philosophy of opposition to convention is as safe as the shifting sands of convention.  It cannot be relied upon as a guide for creative freedom.   They can however take their license from it.  The spiritual Adepts teach us to find our creative motive within... behind the dualistic motives of mere contrariness, rebellion against norms, carnal appetite and addiction.

Re: Alignment With Darkness

Whenever I give service to other, I feel like I'm given service to myself.

Like, when I make a game, that game would be fun for me to play. But when I give it for others to play, I feel that completeness in it.

Re: Alignment With Darkness

Thank you all for the wonder replies. I will take a little time to go through them all and comment back.

Just a quick thought that came to me now. STO actually seems like natural behavior to humans when they are not confined. After studying some anthropology I realized that humans in contemporary society act similar to caged animals. I tend to believe if we lived in harmony with nature more, relied less on technology, stopped the mindless consuming, and weren't constantly bombarded with ideas and images, these questions of darkness wouldn't come up so often. The American Indians long ago, although sometimes at war with each other, appeared to live happily and peacefully for the most part. Rick Ray, a filmmaker, after traveling the world filming numerous cultures, made the observation that the poor smile and laugh much more then those who have more than what they need. This world is beginning to feel like a prison.

The Internet, TV, endless books and films. It all seems to clog the heart. When I have purposefully removed myself from man made ideas and just remained mentally silent simply observing my environment, after a few weeks I begin to feel my heart open up and feel an intense compassion for our whole planet. It is quite amazing. It is a project of mine this year to find out how I can remain semi-permanently in this state. Deep meditation brings the same kind of awareness, but it isn't practical of course to spend your days in meditation while living in the heart of society. There has to be a balance somewhere.

9 (edited by z3n3rg 2007-12-26 12:20:15)

Re: Alignment With Darkness

Personally, it's hard for me to classify light and dark as duality although they would fit the definition.  And that's because I see them at their fundamental root.  It's also hard, when viewing from the most basic level, to see it as something to transcend.  I simply see it as something to learn.

At the fundamental level I see it as how existence works.  You either expand or contract.  The universe wouldn't exist if not for expansion.  If it ever went into contraction for any length of time it would cease to exist.  It seems to me to be THE fundamental lesson a Universe Creator would teach it's potential universe creating offspring.

The dark contracting forces have the ability to make that choice because what they are contracting had already been expanded (created).  If they were contracting from a zero point they wouldn't get very far at all.

The universe provides a place where such choices can be explored without the full effect of ceasing to exist.  It's a sandbox.  A playground.  A school.

I would categorize those that choose the dark as simply immature.  Not in an "I'm better than you" stance, though.  They are like little brothers.  Annoying at times but ultimately family.

10 (edited by morningsun76 2007-12-27 03:36:27)

Re: Alignment With Darkness

z3n3rg wrote:

I would categorize those that choose the dark as simply immature.  Not in an "I'm better than you" stance, though.  They are like little brothers.

I agree, brother.

http://forum.noblerealms.org/pics/184_brotherhood.jpg

z3n3rg wrote:

Annoying at times but ultimately family.

Indeed.

http://forum.noblerealms.org/pics/184_sopranos.jpg

Re: Alignment With Darkness

Not my family.  Not now. Not ever.

"Oh where have you been, my blue-eyed son? Where have you been, my darling young one?" - Roxy Music (B. Dylan)

12 (edited by nexus 2007-12-27 02:51:00)

Re: Alignment With Darkness

Reading the new replies here i just re- read my own post and realised that, exchanging one word now makes my post decipherable.

On the first line of the last paragraph i removed "societal taboos" and replaced it with "societal conformity".  Don't know what i was thinking.  Do now.

Re: Alignment With Darkness

Lyra, about reality as "illusion."

I understand this concept becomes very important when faced with the knowledge of continued reincarnation, often back to Earth as a human. Birth - suffering - death. Birth - suffering - death. Birth - suffering - death.

On and on and on. The philosophy is that being manifest life ultimately brings more suffering than anything else. Disease and death are never escapable. Even if you go on to become a god of some sort, eventually you will come back as a human and will once again lead a life of unavoidable disease and death.

So the ultimate realization is that this cycle has to be escaped, and liberation can only be realized in the human form.

That's the Buddhist doctrine, at least. I think it's probably similar to the Hindu ideas.

I'm not entirely sure about it. I do believe a soul can escape the endless wheel of samsara, but I'm not totally sold on mortality for all beings. I know that in Hindu and Taoist thought there is room for immortality, and its even achievable to humans.

Re: Alignment With Darkness

[youtube]BRXZ_ImEJ0Y[/youtube]

"Beyond the stars a new world awaits me now" - Wintersun

Re: Alignment With Darkness

There appears to be two schools of thought on the whole reincarnation thing.

As mentioned one school classifies reincarnation as basically a trap.  Something to escape.  With dark beings being the farmers harvesting our coarse energy for their own sustenance.

Then the other school of thought has reincarnation as being something you do for awhile that you ultimately grow out of.  That once you learn what's to be learned from physical existence you no longer fit in the physical realms.  Something that is temporary and is ultimately for our own edification.  And the dark beings actually push us to learn quicker by their constant poking.

Both ideas makes sense to me.  And I must add in the other main thoughts that comes up for me when examining these ideas.  That is that the "it's a trap" idea could itself be a form of trap.  That propagating such an idea takes the focus off learning and onto escaping.  And takes the focus off spiritual and puts it onto physical.  Then, of course, the opposite to that.  The idea of a "temporary school" is there to keep you trapped by making you think you choose to be here.

This reminded me of something from the abov3.top.s3cr3t site which anyone can search to find the whole thing.  It's supposedly a channelling from who the writer called "The Dark One" which calls itself Choas as a balance to 'Order'.  Three of the answers somewhat relate to this.


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Q: What happens after we die?
A: Stay away from the big light if you want to retain your consciousness. The Light is the first snare, it scoops a lot along its way. It boils down to consciousness versus sweet blissful ignorance.

Q: But Jesus suffered & sacrificed, right?
A: He was sacrificed when he was an infant and the humanity was taken away and he became a tool of chaos and order. All humans sacrifice when their personalities are lost--even though life is so wretched. Humans love and cling to the personality most of all. Which is why going towards the light upon death is the worst thing you could do, if you care about such matters.

Q: Okay, about that. Aren’t you just lying about going towards the light because you’re evil and stuff?
A: You have to make a decision--join the mass and lose the personality or hold on to your personality and take your chance in the wilds of the infinite. This is the key spiritual dilemma.  This question informs everything.
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It's interesting.  And given the limitations of our physical senses, it seems to come down to belief (or trusting your inner resonation) since proving either 100% is beyond our current reach.

And on a completely unrelated note I wanted to add in one more quote from that thread that I found rather interesting.


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Q: I want absolutes.
A: Not even the Ultimate is an absolute. The Ultimate is birthing itself backwards over and over again, so we cannot find the finite Ultimate, the last visible star. The start is always being replayed, time is constantly walking backward as to give you all more rope.
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