• From: Peru
  • Registered: 2004-08-06

Topic: Money as debt

Here's a really good documentary/animation on the subject of money creation.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 2583451279

I'm sure most people here will be fairly up to speed on this subject, however it's definitely a video worth passing on to friends and family. It explains the subject in a way that's easy to understand and doesn't really alienate people with conspiracy theories.

Andy

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Ayahuasca's Website

  • Registered: 2007-06-27

Re: Money as debt

Nice work, Aya. Although it certainly helps if family members and friends are open-minded, or even have the slightest leanings towards these subjects. Still good catch, might show it to my sister when she has the time.

  • Registered: 2004-04-01

Re: Money as debt

Thanks for posting.  I think that the movie is well done and explains the concepts clearly.

Recommended.

  • Registered: 2007-10-30

Re: Money as debt

I use a very simple explanation when I talk to people. First off, I clarify the issues by emphasising that the principles of the economic system are the same, no matter how many people are in the society. It doesn't matter if there are 20,000,000 (population of Australia), or 2,000,000 - the same principles apply. It also doesn't matter if there are 200,000, or 20,000 or 2,000 - or if there are only 200, or 20 or JUST 2.

I then select two people from the group. They represent the society. I am the banker. They have to use my 'legal tender'. I loan each one $100 at 5% interest. I then turn to one of the people and say "at the end of the year, how much do you repay me?" They naturally reply with "$105".

Now comes the clincher. I then turn to the other person and ask that person how much they repay me. They always say "$105".

Wrong! I remind them how much legal tender I put in circulation - only $200.

When the first person paid back $105, that only left $95 in circulation.

I then look at the second person and tell them that he/she cannot repay their debt. I reach across and take something of theirs (a pen, purse, cup of coffee - whatever). "You just lost your house!"

By making personal it drives the point home.

I was at a breakfast with some Ministers of Papau New Guinea one time and performed my little skit. When I took the pen away from the number three man in the Government and told him "you just lost your country", he looked at me in stunned silence, I smiled, he smiled back and nodded - he got it. Later I learned he pulled the same skit at a Cabinet meeting. Hopefully, something as simple as that might make a difference the next time they get offered a loan by the IMF.

Try it on a couple of your friends - it freaks them out to find out that the system is a scam.

  • Registered: 2007-01-03

Re: Money as debt

This may help explain some things....
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?c … on_123.doc

~JOYce~
  • Registered: 2007-01-03

Re: Money as debt

This may be an easier explanation....
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?c … eption.rtf

~JOYce~
  • Registered: 2004-04-01

Re: Money as debt

OUT OF THE ABYSS,

Welcome to Noble Realms!  Thanks for your post.

  • Registered: 2007-10-30

Re: Money as debt

Wandering, thanks for the welcome. I mentioned the guys from PNG, but I expect that if you put the same skit to any Congress critter in the U.S. or a Palimentarian from the U.K. or....... you would get the same result - and these are suppose to be our representatives, our 'Leaders'.

I'm going through the process of reading previous threads to bring myself up to speed on what has already been discussed. I just finished a post where a person was commenting on about many of the 'professionals' in a system are those most likely to be blinded by the Matrix. How true.

I put that skit to an Economics teacher at Sydney University. He replied, "I've never thought of that, I'll have to give it some thought"

"I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT"!!! Here is a guy that is teaching economics at a University level and he never has even considered the fundamental basis of his subject matter. He is teaching students how to pull the levers, watch the gauges, listen to the bells, toot the horn of the economic machine - but never considers whether the machine is broken or not.

Reminds me of a college professor that was a huge Marxist. I mentioned the background of Marx with the Illuminati and the guy was completely clueless. He couldn't go beyond the written words and look at the 'why' it was all put together.

I suppose it all makes sense, these types of people would never get to their elevated positions in the Matrix if they were independent thinkers.

If 'all is lessons', I hope I have picked up enough this time around that I don't get recycled back into this zoo.

  • Registered: 2007-07-17

Re: Money as debt

The blinders are on tight aren't they? Sometimes you just want a worldwide intercom to come on and say "ATTENTION EVERYONE - YOU HAVE BEEN LIED TO!"  Even if that did happen no one would know what to make of it.

It can be frustrating if you let it get to you.  I'm really working on getting past it now.  We have work to do, and it is important that we all be able to see clearly and not be diverted by such frustrations.

I like your style,  O.O.T. ABYSS

  • Registered: 2006-09-16

Re: Money as debt

out of the abyss ......  I know, and 'they' ( the professors) keep telling our kids to be 'critical thinkers' -- and yet they fall for all the bullshit and glare daggers if you even mention a 'conspiracy'. ....  it's like being in the 'twlight zone' .....

The mills of the Gods grind slow, but oh, how fine they grind.!
  • Registered: 2006-01-05

Re: Money as debt

This issue seems like it might finally be gaining some traction in the collective mindset with the current credit crisis and all.  So many people are so used to living off of credit cards and owing so much as a normal course of life, maybe we're approaching the turning point where the increasing enslavement can no longer sustain itself and many people will "wake up" as hoped.

Here are a few sites I like to refer to on this issue:

http://www.moneyasdebt.net/
- the official site for the above video.  They would like you to pay $27 Canadian for it.  I wish I'd bought it a year or so ago!

http://www.themoneymasters.com/
- similarly-themed video but 3 1/2 hours long and with a ton of historical background.  Might be great for getting more wonky types interested.  It also should be floating around google video, and they sell the DVD on the site for $20 U.S.  Interestingly it looks like they also sell "Money as Debt" on the site for $20 U.S., what a bargain!

http://www.monetary.org/
- the American Monetary Institute.  Seems to advocate similar reforms as the above.  Their "Bible" is a 700-page tome called "The Lost Science of Money" by the founder of the institute, Stephen Zarlenga.  I have it but haven't made too much progress in it yet.  He goes through the entire detailed world history of money.  So far there is some interesting stuff about ancient Rome having fiat money that isn't generally acknowledged by historians, and the ancient "secret" monetary mechanism of the silver-to-gold ratio being much lower in the East than in the West.

Raising awareness of the problem is more than half the battle, but is there a clear endgame strategy for monetary reform or related issues?  It seems like it would have to happen during/after some sort of crisis, and I would hardly advocate causing one but we'll probably be smack in the middle of one any day now anyway.  Many of these reformers seem to advocate directly issued government fiat money like we had with the original greenbacks as opposed to our current debt money.  Is it possible that after we endure any looming crises there will emerge a political environment where this could actually work?  And of course, how might the possible upcoming density shift affect any of this?  Assuming we're dealing with the 4D STO side, should we even still need money as a planetary society by the mid-21st century, and is it possible that the right set of reforms could help transition toward this?

I was getting my hair cut yesterday and I saw an ad on TV for debit cards that you can buy at drugstores.  You don't need "a bank account", you can have your paycheck direct deposited to it and I think also withdraw cash from ATMs if you want to be one of those cash-using losers.  Yeah, you don't need A bank account, just THE bank account.  Clearly this is what the other side is going for.

  • lyra
  • lyra
  • Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
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  • From: my own private idaho
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Money as debt

meta-agnostic wrote:

I was getting my hair cut yesterday and I saw an ad on TV for debit cards that you can buy at drugstores.  You don't need "a bank account", you can have your paycheck direct deposited to it and I think also withdraw cash from ATMs if you want to be one of those cash-using losers.  Yeah, you don't need A bank account, just THE bank account.  Clearly this is what the other side is going for.

Yeah, I have a story about a temp agency that tried to get me to use this as my form of payment in lieu of a paycheck or even direct deposit into a personal bank account.  See here:  http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=722  post #1.....

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website

  • Registered: 2006-01-05

Re: Money as debt

lyra wrote:
meta-agnostic wrote:

I was getting my hair cut yesterday and I saw an ad on TV for debit cards that you can buy at drugstores.  You don't need "a bank account", you can have your paycheck direct deposited to it and I think also withdraw cash from ATMs if you want to be one of those cash-using losers.  Yeah, you don't need A bank account, just THE bank account.  Clearly this is what the other side is going for.

Yeah, I have a story about a temp agency that tried to get me to use this as my form of payment in lieu of a paycheck or even direct deposit into a personal bank account.  See here:  http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=722  post #1.....

I recalled that story immediately as I was watching/listening to the commercial.  And that was three years ago!!!  Incidentally the commercial aired during the Jerry Springer show, making it more of a sync since I never would have been watching if it hadn't been on at the barbershop.  Think about how much more VISA/666 has gotten their tentacles into everything since then!  It seems like we really are bifurcating into two groups.  Those who try to use cash or at least pay attention to their habits and realize something is wrong at the heart of all this, and those who just go along with whatever is put in front of them because it's "easier".  Sadly there's no E-Z way to convince the E-Z crowd (I don't see O.O.T. ABYSS's skit working too well in checkout lines), but sooner or later they're going to get hit over the head with it.

  • From: closer to god
  • Registered: 2005-03-06

Re: Money as debt

T H A N K    Y O U ! !
This blew my heart onto the floor in front of my EYEballs:

"Money is a new form of slavery, and distinguishale from
  the old simply by the fact that it is impersonal,
   t h e r e   i s   n o   H U M A N   r e l a t i o n
   between the Master and slave."
                              ~Leo Tolstoy

Ah, the Russian sensibility!
Seriously, great video thank you everyone watch it this is VIRAL baby

peace

"We must be the change we wish to see in the world."
                                       --Mohandas 'Mahatma' Ghandi

Man as he is now is asleep.  In order to change, we must first awaken.
                                       --Georges Ivanovich Gurdjieff
  • Registered: 2007-01-09

Re: Money as debt

Did anyone hear the bit in the video that says something like, "a bank must have 90% deposits on the books."

Doesn't that imply a 9:10 deposit to loan ratio, not 1:9? What am I misunderstanding?

And why don't credit unions have huge buildings and uber-wealthy CEOS. They use the same practices... so where does their money go?

I'd be interested to see look into the books of a big bank and parse out some data for us. Like, how much profit do the banks make? Do they have to reloan most of their revenue, to keep it going? How much does the CEO make, how much do bank's operations cost?