Topic: Do you remember when you understood infinity?

I've been doing some reflecting on my childhood recently and am coming around to thinking that, in some ways at least, I understood things better then than I do now.

There was a period when I was probably eight or nine years old where I remember grappling hard with the concept of infinity. I remember thinking about outer space and how it goes on forever and trying to picture it in my mind. I could only imagine so much before I would encounter a wall...but then that would beg the question, what's on the other side of the wall? I remember sitting up nights in my bed pondering this when I was supposed to be sleeping (sometimes literally banging my head against the wall) stuck in this circular thinking pattern.

At some point I must have grokked the concept because later in my childhood I adopted the philosophy (that I still entertain to a degree) that if I imagine it, it exists, or I have created it. Such as, if I imagine a pink planet where polka dotted people ride striped walruses to work, then somewhere in a never-ending outer space that planet has to exist. And so does anything and everything else that anyone can imagine. If you lived forever and had a spaceship that never ran out of gas, you would eventually find that planet. Logic meets infinity. Thought manifests reality.

The funny thing is though as agonizing as the process was, I do not remember the moment where I finally got it. As big of an event it was for me, I would think I would. I can't help but think that whatever I told myself at that moment that helped me make that realization might come in handy today as I see patterns in my learning and seem to be on the verge of making similar realizations or breakthroughs, though perhaps on a different level.

Just thought I'd throw it out there...

Stephen

Re: Do you remember when you understood infinity?

I also wondered as a kid what was on the other side of the wall. It seemed logical to me that nothing was on the other side of the wall, until you crossed it, then you would be on the other side of the wall. I also wondered what would happen if you exceeded the numerical infinity. It seemed logical to me at that time (probably 8 or 9 years old as well) that after infinity, you return at 0.

If you imagine the universe as a torus with us living inside and only being able to move on the surface (i.o.w. we are 2D creatures inside a 3D object), then to us the universe will seem infinite in size because no matter what direction we walk in, we will never encounter a wall. After walking a very long way we might end up at the same place we started, but it may take so long that we do not even notice that we have been there already. In this concept, getting back at 0 after infinity makes sense.

I think the same concept applies for all n-dimensional creatures inside a (n+1)-dimensional object. It will seem to be infinite in size, until you can understand the shape of the object. Then you will find the new dimension (direction) in which to travel, pierce the wall, become a (n+1)-dimensional creature and enter the (n+2)-dimensional object. Kind of like the Russian Matryoshka (nesting dolls).

Re: Do you remember when you understood infinity?

I remember when I was about 3 or 4 yrs. old I actually thought and believed that the natural path of growth for any and every person was to eventually learn EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW (in one lifetime). That eventually, after a long life of learning, one naturally finally gets to the point where HE KNOWS EVERYTHING.

I remember being a bit confused when I realized that nobody knows everything there is!

I am as is Void.

4 (edited by miminikelo 2004-09-07 13:19:02)

Re: Do you remember when you understood infinity?

Hi all,

In my internet surfing I felt inspired to post this after looking for more information on the 11:11, 10:01, 4:44 type number appearances. For me they feel like coded remembrances that are just outside of my full grasp. I have gone from being alarmed at their frequency in my life to being at a kind of peace with the cosmic profundity of such ways of communicating. I have studied this phenomena widely and am not fixed in any opinion, as I do not think there is a fixed answer to this apparent conundrum. Thus far when there is a frequency of these balanced numbers, I have noticed that I am particularly focused and it is usually just before a leap in awareness, or some movement resulting from a certain awareness. I feel excited and connected to something larger than I can comprehend.

I think this relates to this discussion on infinity and the nature of our existence in this world and others.  My recurring questions are "What can I do?" "What exactly did I come here to do?" and "Who am I?". I am a bit like Simba in the Lion King film, when he was lost in the wilderness, having been driven out and robbed of his spiritual and tribal inheritance as a young cub.  He is a disgruntled and depressed young man who thinks he can never return home as his land is occupied by hyenas and his kindom is a desolate prison. At this point he has that epiphany of a moment when his murdered father talks to him from the Spirit realm. The assasinated Lion King says to the depressed heir: "Remember who you are". And Simba remembers, eventually being inspired enough by the remembrance to - with the help of his friends - go back and transform his occupied kingdom to its former peace. The lion was en-couraged by a knowledge he had forgotten.

This is what I think we are striving to do here at  Noble Realms. Sharing and en-couraging each other in all honesty, to grow. To be of service to life, or Service to Others. That in serving life , we serve all, including ourselves. The merging of the STS/STO duality through a third force. That force being our spiritual energy infused with knowledge and compassion. For without knowledge (light), there can be no compassion (love). Love is an empty abstract when you don't have the full picture.

Many writing speak of this and this is a very knowledgeable gathering, so I think you know of what I speak. Below is an excerpt that served to remind me of what I think we are here to do. It is, like so many words of wisdom, written by a dispossessed indigenous group - The Hopi Elders. The piece has predictive elements that are a couple of years out, but I can see how that can be, as the future is impossible to predict accurately. As I understand it the future is made in every nanosecond. As in the flap of a butterfly's wing changing the course of history analogy. Everything we do or do not do, for all is action, makes a difference towards the future.

The essence of the changes these Elders speak of are relevant despite the "time" anomalies. Whats a couple of years here and there when you speak of catastrophe eh? smile And talking of time: I've babbled on enough ............ hope you enjoy!

mimi


                               The Elders
                             Oraibi, Arizona
                               Hopi Nation

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The Mayan Calendar - The World will Not End...

Carlos Barrios was born into a Spanish family on El Altiplano, the
highlands of Guatemala. His home was in Huehuetenango, also the dwelling
place of the Maya Mam tribe. With other Maya and other indigenous tradition
keepers, the Man carry part of the old ways on Turtle Island (North
America). They are keepers of time, authorities on remarkable calendars
that are ancient, elegant and relevant.

Mr. Barrios is a historian, an anthropologist and investigator. After
studying with traditional elders for 25 years since the age of 19, he has
also became a Mayan Ajq'ij, a ceremonial priest and spiritual guide, Eagle
Clan.

Years ago, along with his brother, Gerardo, Carlos initiated an
investigation into the different Mayan calendars. He studied with many
teachers. He says his brother Gerardo interviewed nearly 600 traditional
Mayan elders to widen their scope of knowledge.

"Anthropologists visit the temple sites," Mr. Barrios says, "and read the
stelas and inscriptions and make up stories about the Maya, but they do not
read the signs correctly. It's just their imagination... Other people write
about prophecy in the name of the Maya. They say that the world will end in
December 2012. The Mayan elders are angry with this. The world will not
end. It will be transformed. The indigenous have the calendars, and know
how to accurately interpret it, not others."

The Calendars

Mayan comprehension of time, seasons, and cycles has proven itself to be
vast and sophisticated. The Maya understand 17 different calendars, some of
them charting time accurately over a span of more than ten million years.
The calendar that has steadily drawn global attention since 1987 is called
the Tzolk'in or Cholq'ij. Devised ages ago and based on the cycle of the
Pleiades, it is still held as sacred. With the indigenous calendars, native
people have kept track of important turning points in history. For example,
the daykeepers who study the calendars identified an important day in the
year One Reed, Ce Acatal, as it was called by the Mexicans. That was the
day when an important ancestor was prophesied to return, "coming like a
butterfly."

In the western calendar, the One Reed date correlates to Easter Sunday,
April 21, 1519 the day that Hernando Cortez and his fleet of 11 Spanish
galleons arrived from the East at what is today called Vera Cruz, Mexico.
When the Spanish ships came toward shore, native people were waiting and
watching to see how it would go. The billowing sails of the ships did
indeed remind the scouts of butterflies skimming the ocean surface.

In this manner was a new era initiated, an era they had anticipated through
their calendars. The Maya termed the new era the Nine Bolomtikus, or nine
Hells of 52 years each. As the nine cycles unfolded, land and freedom were
taken from the native people. Disease and disrespect dominated. What began
with the arrival of Cortez, lasted until August 16, 1987 - a date many
people recall as Harmonic Convergence. Millions of people took advantage of
that date to make ceremony in sacred sites, praying for a smooth transition
to a new era, the World of the Fifth Sun.

From that 1987 date until now, Mr. Barrios says, we have been in a time
when the right arm of the materialistic world is disappearing, slowly but
inexorably. We are at the cusp of the era when peace begins, and people
live in harmony with Mother Earth. We are no longer in the World of the
Fourth Sun, but we are not yet in the World of the Fifth Sun. This is the
time in-between, the time of transition.

As we pass through transition there is a colossal, global convergence of
environmental destruction, social chaos, war, and ongoing Earth changes.
All this, Mr. Barrios says, was foreseen via the simple, spiral mathematics
of the Mayan calendars. "It will change," Mr. Barrios observes. "Everything
will change." He said Mayan Daykeepers view the Dec. 21, 2012 date as a
rebirth, the start of the World of the Fifth Sun. It will be the start of a
new era resulting from and signified by the solar meridian crossing the
galactic equator, and the earth aligning itself with the center of the
galaxy.

At sunrise on December 21, 2012 for the first time in 26,000 years the Sun
rises to conjunct the intersection of the Milky Way and the plane of the
ecliptic. This cosmic cross is considered to be an embodiment of the Sacred
Tree, The Tree of Life a tree remembered in all the world's spiritual
traditions. Some observers say this alignment with the heart of the galaxy
in 2012 will open a channel for cosmic energy to flow through the earth,
cleansing it and all that dwells upon it, raising all to a higher level of
vibration.

This process has already begun, Mr. Barrios suggested. "Change is
accelerating now, and it will continue to accelerate." If the people of the
earth can get to this 2012 date in good shape, without having destroyed too
much of the Earth, Mr. Barrios said, we will rise to a new, higher level.
But to get there we must transform enormously powerful forces that seek to
block the way.

A Picture of the Road Ahead

From his understanding of the Mayan tradition and the calendars, Mr.
Barrios offered a picture of where we are at and what may lie on the road
ahead:

The date specified in the calendar < ­ Winter Solstice in the year 2012 does
not mark the end of the world. Many outside people writing about the Mayan
calendar sensationalize this date, but they do not know. The ones who know
are the indigenous elders who are entrusted with keeping the tradition
"Humanity will continue," he contends, "but in a different way. Material
structures will change. From this we will have the opportunity to be more
human."

We are living in the most important era of the Mayan calendars and
prophecies. All the prophecies of the world, all the traditions, are
converging now. There is no time for games. The spiritual ideal of this era
is action. Many powerful souls have reincarnated in this era, with a lot of
power. This is true on both sides, the light and the dark. High magic is at
work on both sides.

Things will change, but it is up to the people how difficult or easy it is
for the changes to come about. The economy now is a fiction. The first
five-year stretch of transition from August 1987 to August 1992 < ­ was the
beginning of the destruction of the material world. We have progressed ten
years deeper into the transition phase by now, and many of the so-called
sources of financial stability are in fact hollow.

The banks are weak. This is a delicate moment for them. They could crash
globally if we don't pay attention. One critical period is October and
November 2002. If the banks crash in these months then we will be forced to
rely on the land and our skills. The monetary systems will be in chaos, and
we must then rely on our direct relationship with the Earth for our food
and shelter. The North and South Poles are both breaking up. The level of
the water in the oceans is going to rise. But at the same time land in the
ocean, especially near Cuba, is also going to rise.

A Call for Fusion

As he met with audiences in Santa Fe, Mr. Barrios told a story about the
most recent Mayan New Year ceremonies in Guatemala. He said that one
respected Mam elder, who lives all year in a solitary mountain cave,
journeyed to Chichicastenango to speak with the people at the ceremony. The
elder delivered a simple, direct message. He called for human beings to
come together in support of life and light. Right now each person and group
is going his or her own way. The elder of the mountains said there is hope
if the people of the light can come together and unite in some way.

Reflecting on this, Mr. Barrios explained: "We live in a world of polarity:
day and night, man and woman, positive and negative. Light and darkness
need each other. They are a balance. Just now the dark side is very strong,
and very clear about what they want. They have their vision and their
priorities clearly held, and also their hierarchy. They are working in many
ways so that we will be unable to connect with the spiral Fifth World in
2012."

"On the light side everyone thinks they are the most important, that their
own understandings, or their group's understandings, are the key. There's a
diversity of cultures and opinions, so there is competition, diffusion, and
no single focus."

As Mr. Barrios sees it, the dark side works to block fusion through denial
and materialism. It also works to destroy those who are working with the
light to get the Earth to a higher level. They like the energy of the old,
declining Fourth World, the materialism. They do not want it to change.
They do not want fusion. They want to stay at this level, and are afraid of
the next level.

The dark power of the declining Fourth World cannot be destroyed or
overpowered. It's too strong and clear for that, and that is the wrong
strategy. The dark can only be transformed when confronted with simplicity
and open-heartedness. This is what leads to fusion, a key concept for the
World of the Fifth Sun.

Mr. Barrios said the emerging era of the Fifth Sun will call attention to a
much-overlooked element. Whereas the four traditional elements of earth,
air, fire and water have dominated various epochs in the past, there will
be a fifth element to reckon with in the time of the Fifth Sun: ether. The
dictionary defines ether as the rarefied element of the Heavens. Ether is a
medium. It permeates all space and transmits waves of energy in a wide
range of frequencies, from cell phones to human auras. What is "ethereal"
is related to the regions beyond earth: the heavens.

Ether the element of the Fifth Sun is celestial and lacking in material
substance, but is no less real than wood, stone or flesh. "Within the
context of ether there can be a fusion of the polarities," Mr. Barrios
said. "No more darkness or light in the people, but an uplifted fusion. But
right now the realm of darkness is not interested in this. They are
organized to block it. They seek to unbalance the Earth and its environment
so we will be unready for the alignment in 2012. We need to work together
for peace, and balance with the other side. We need to take care of the
Earth that feeds and shelters us. We need to put our entire mind and heart
into pursuing unity and fusion now, to confront the other side and preserve
life."

To be Ready for this Moment in History

Mr. Barrios told his audiences in Santa Fe that we are at a critical moment
of world history. "We are disturbed," he said. "We can't play anymore. Our
planet can be renewed or ravaged. Now is the time to awaken and take
action."

"Everyone is needed. You are not here for no reason. Everyone who is here
now has an important purpose. This is a hard, but a special time. We have
the opportunity for growth, but we must be ready for this moment in
history."

Mr. Barrios offered a number of suggestions to help people walk in balance
through the years ahead. "The prophesied changes are going to happen," he
said "but our attitude and actions determine how harsh or mild they are."

We need to act, to make changes, and to elect people to represent us who
understand and who will take political action to respect the earth.
Meditation and spiritual practice are good, but also action. It's very
important to be clear about who you are, and also about your relation to
the Earth.

Develop yourself according to your own tradition and the call of your
heart. But remember to respect differences, and strive for unity. Eat
wisely. A lot of food is corrupt in either subtle or gross ways. Pay
attention to what you are taking into your body. Learn to preserve food,
and to conserve energy. Learn some good breathing techniques, so you have
mastery of your breath.

Be clear. Follow a tradition with great roots. It is not important what
tradition, your heart will tell you, but it must have great roots. We live
in a world of energy. An important task at this time is to learn to sense
or see the energy of everyone and everything: people, plants, animals. This
becomes increasingly important as we draw close to the World of the Fifth
Sun, for it is associated with the element ether -- the realm where energy
lives and weaves.

Go to the sacred places of the earth to pray for peace, and respect for the
Earth which gives us our food, clothing, and shelter. We need to reactivate
the energy of these sacred places. That is our work.

According to Mr. Barrios' reading of the Mayan calendar, if war happens in
November 2002 or after, then it's bad, but not catastrophic. But if it
happens between April and November 2003, it will be catastrophic. Really
bad. It could eventually result in the death of two-thirds of humanity. "So
stay active," he said. "If we are active, we can transform the planet. The
elders watch to see what happens."

Many Mayan elders and knowledge keepers may be eliminated in the next few
years. For the first half of the current Katun (20-year period) the dark
side has a lot of power. But that will pass 3 to 4 years from now. The tide
can turn. Amazing things are going to happen.

One simple but effective prayer technique is to light a white or baby-blue
colored candle. Think a moment in peace. Speak your intention to the flame
and send the light of it on to the leaders who have the power to make war
or peace.

We Have Work to Do

According to Mr. Barrios this is a crucially important moment for humanity,
and for earth. Each person is important. If you have incarnated into this
era, you have spiritual work to do balancing the planet. He said the elders
have opened the doors so that other races can come to the Mayan world to
receive the tradition. The Maya have long appreciated and respected that
there are other colors, other races, and other spiritual systems. "They
know," he said, "that the destiny of the Mayan world is related to the
destiny of the whole world."

"The greatest wisdom is in simplicity," Mr. Barrios advised before leaving
Santa Fe. "Love, respect, tolerance, sharing, gratitude, forgiveness. It's
not complex or elaborate. The real knowledge is free. It's encoded in your
DNA. All you need is within you. Great teachers have said that from the
beginning. Find your heart, and you will find your way."

---

Carlos Barrios is the author of Kam Wuj: El Libro del Destino, a book
published in Spanish that explores Mayan teachings. He is looking for a way
to have the book translated and published in English. Mr. Barrios can be
contacted via Saq1 Be1 -- Organization for Mayan and Indigenous Spiritual
Studies: HCR 72, Box 142, Ribera, NM 87560 Ph: 505-421-0198 Email:
saqbe@s... http://www.sacredroad.org

"the truth the whole truth, and nothing but the truth"

Re: Do you remember when you understood infinity?

Yes, and the Toltec knowledge is along the same lines.  It says in the beginning we were approached with a lie.  The lie was that we were imperfect, lacking, not good enough to have been given the knowledge that we could use to create life from ourselves.  We believed that lie; we ate it like fruit and along with it came a parasite that constantly chattered in our heads.  After receiving this knowledge and no doubt with further help from this parasite's friends, we became more physical and became to reproduce sexually.  The parasite spread to all of us as it does today through the process of domestication by which we receive all of our beliefs.  (The key here is that we originally received true knowledge through our spiritual connection to the all, and that would've been very easy in our less physical configuration.  After the "fall" we were receiving false knowledge, mixed with truth of course, from outside ourselves and the previous easy connection to the all was virtually forgotten.)  Our spiritual eyes closed when our physical eyes opened.  The Toltecs left knowledge of how to again see through our spiritual eyes and find our true integrity and connection to the all.  They say we are dreaming and that all our dreams together make up the dream of the planet.  We can transform our ownselves and our dream and thus transform the dream of the planet.  We transform ourselves by examining each of our beliefs starting with what we believe about ourselves.  Each belief is called an agreement.  We have so many agreements we work constantly to monitor them, and all the while we listen to the conflicting voices of the parasite in our head, the mitote, who make sure we go in circles never breaking free of the program.  If we decide not to believe something that is a lie, we break an agreement and the voices are diminished.  We can break all the agreements of our domestication and replace them with agreements of truth, and we will be free of the voices of the parasite.  We can replace all those old agreements with just four new ones which are outlined in The Four Agreements.  Keeping these agreements results in our transformation.  And when we change ourselves, everything changes. 

http://www.miguelruiz.com/agreements.html

When I read the Toltec stuff I was amazed how it resonated with so many things I'd studied.  I was already on the way to making some of the same conclusions, so it was an affirmation for me.