16

Re: Question Here

The question as to why aliens didn't exhibit advanced technologies in our "past" that exist in this"now" may have something to do with the degree of disruption permitted within time zones and time lines. 

While there seems to be evidence of an advanced NEGATIVE alien agenda on earth, one that has become increasingly center stage since Hitler's 3rd Reich, there may also be an advanced POSITIVE alien agenda that has prevented egregious temporal displacements from occurring.  The glitches found throughout history (primitive batteries, computers, and the like) may represent discoveries that were outside the time line for a given era, hence unsupported by the general level of conscious development exhibited by humans of that era. 

The lack of proof of advanced technological intrusions may also have something to do with noninterference guidelines that -- though breached from time to time -- are enforced by advanced entities with the power to insure the operational Design framework sustains and maintains temporal hologrammatic integrity.

“You who have the light, what are you doing with it?” ~ Paul Claudel

17 (edited by montalk 2007-06-06 21:17:37)

Re: Question Here

Truth Minion wrote:

Oppressors do not care if their oppression are "true" or not. All they care is that they oppress people. It is a fetish.

Under fewer and better informed assumptions you might perceive fewer contradictions. Maybe it is not just a fetish, but an organized business requiring the proper timing of incremental steps toward desired goals. Oversimplifying could make for illusory contradictions. Example: why would a farmer wait until the end of the growing season to pull crops from the ground when near the beginning they are easier to uproot?

That was his only book.

That does not disqualify Bramley, nor is the number of books one has written is a reliable measure of credibility.

And if aliens are a psy-op what makes you think that he is not a part of that?

Because I have done my research and what he presents fits the data points better than many other books on why aliens are here. Also, there are other books which are clearly psy-ops and they have common identifying characteristics that Bramley's book does not have. It's obvious after you become a seasoned resarcher into this stuff and know how to look for holes and reconcile paradoxes. That's why I'm pointing out to you some further sources for your research. Well, assuming you are still up for researching some more.

Anyone can claim anything. It does not mean what they claim is true.

That is stating the obvious, but implying something false. What you are implying is that I think "Gods of Eden" is true solely because some guy named William Bramley claimed it. If so, then you are mistaken. I value the book because its claims are explanatory, correlative, interesting, and provide a set of working hypotheses that work well.

And that is my point. If advanced technology is being used nowadays covertly - and not so covertly: like tasers - what prevented them from using it in the past? NOTHING.

You contradict yourself by admitting that advanced technology is being used covertly nowadays. If so, then mainstream technology today is less advanced in comparison. Why? For the same reason that mainstream technology of the Dark and Middle Ages was less advanced than it could have been, less advanced than any covert technologies employed back then. And the reason, as I explained before, is that the permissibility of the proliferation of a particular technology depends entirely on the context of the age in which it is used. Polymer handguns are permissible today because it fits into the context of modern technology. But if permissible today, then not in the Middle Ages when polymer technology was unknown.

"Mankind is being enslaved by non-human forces who are technologically, psychically, and dimensionally superior to us."

If they are "superior" to us why would they wait until... "Before the information age, knowledge was easily suppressed. Today, it is more easily corrupted with disinformation"? It makes much more sense, if it was real, to manipulate a bunch of ignorant fools than to wait until the majority is well-educated to be able to discern for themselves what can be real or what can't.

It would have made their work much more easier if they used the Roman Empire - for example - to use the tactics that they are supposedly using now. Less people. Less education. Less everything. Much easier work.

It does not compute.

I addressed this in the very next paragraph after the part you quoted:

-------
Given their technological superiority, why don’t hostile alien forces just take over the planet?

For strategic reasons, their invasion is a drawn out process rather than a single spectacular blitzkrieg as one might expect, though the latter can be used to finalize the invasion once the first phase has spiritually tranquilized the target population. There are many problems with an overt invasion using physical force. History has shown that visible tyrants are also visible targets who quickly fall if they reveal themselves before total control has been established. Smarter tyrants stay hidden and cleverly manipulate the population into first defeating and enslaving itself.

Cosmic tyrants exist who seek to assimilate entire worlds into their empire. The premature invasion of those who have targeted us could lead to conflicts threatening the two resources they have come here to exploit: earth and its inhabitants. They prefer that we willingly hand over ourselves and the planet with the least amount of resistance. This can only happen under the condition that we are unaware of their true nature or agenda. Preparing such deception requires much groundwork. Thus, they have chosen to covertly and patiently manipulate human society toward that end.

Their preferred method of subversion is to create elite among the population who do the dirty work of enslaving the rest. What we know as the “secret government” is an occult technocracy comprised of these elite humans. The secret government is using problem-reaction-solution techniques to frame world conflicts as pretexts for the establishment of a “New World Order,” an overt global totalitarian regime that will lockdown any potential for resistance and secure earth for easy assimilation into the alien empire.
---------

In the past, there weren't 6 billion people. There was no global government. There was no surveillance technology. The "crops" were not yet ripe for harvest. Enslaving such a world would have been more a liability than an asset. But today we are getting pretty close to maturing. Not only that, but an impending dimensional Shift would impose an urgent deadline for the final phases of the operation.

The answers to your questions exist, but not within the perimeter of your assumptions. The level of oppression we are talking about is far more complex; it involves layers of control that go beyond the physical. Do you have any idea how conquest is done on the metaphysical, occult, hyper-dimensional scale? A conquest of minds and souls, one that obeys metaphysical laws while operating within the physical environment? It is a more delicate process than brute physical oppression. There are subtleties here not to be overlooked. For more on these subtleties, I recommend reading the Allies of Humanity books -- the first one is a free PDF.  I'd be glad to discuss this further after you've done more research and contemplation on the subtleties of what's involved.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Question Here

Hey TM, any chance you're from... ummm.. say around Romania? big_smile

F.C., NR's favourite Conspiracy Theorist

Change we must, to live again
- Jon Anderson

19 (edited by Truth Minion 2007-06-07 03:47:29)

Re: Question Here

feritciva wrote:

Hey TM, any chance you're from... ummm.. say around Romania? big_smile

F.C., NR's favourite Conspiracy Theorist

No. I am not.

If you mean that I might be Vaccime you are mistaken. Montalk might be able to confirm that through my IP. His English was better than mine, although I believe my questions are better than his.

There is not ulterior agenda here. I, as my alias states, am just a person very interested in Truth. It does not matter where it leads me. What I am trying to discuss here is the logical holes that this "theory" presents. Contrary to Vaccime, I am very open to the possibility that this exists. And bought into it rather easily when first finding it. But after a little thought the holes were too big for me to accept it without question.

But in name of Truth I would like to say that while seeing that Vaccime was a little set on his ways, and being quite rude about it, I do not agree with censorship. Closing his thread is wrong - for me. Banning even worse. BS we combat with Truth. Not with the use of "force". I know this is Montalk's place but I don't think that we advance as a society using such actions. "Be the change you want to see in the world." is more of my motto. I know this might get me killed, but this 3d reality is not what the journey is all about right?

Now I am going to check out the link that Montalk gave to find out more about it. I do not agree that a "more sophisticated" tactic is necessary,  because humans have used in the past very brutal means of oppression. And they did not care being "subtle" about it.

Nor do I agree that an "agreement" has to be had before they can act. All that is needed is that their agents ask. And "their" agents have not been shy "asking" for more power and efficiency in oppressing us.

But I am going to research, as per Montalk suggestion, and see what that presents me with.

PS - What is F.C.? Someone also from Romania?

PS 2 - Why do we have to be logged in to read the board now?

Re: Question Here

Truth Minion wrote:

I am just pointing out some very obvious lack of logic in the story.

Lack of logic is entirely a matter of opinion based on the amount of knowledge you have on a subject. Another thing to remember is that you can't necessarily apply human logic to 'alien' beings/oppressors. You're basically saying "it's not logical that these aliens would act this way" but what seems illogical to you may be perfectly logical to them. If you don't know how they think and you don't know what their real motives are then how can you say what's logical or illogical? All you're doing is making a whole lot of assumptions based on what little bit of information you've read on the subject.

If all they wanted to do was take over the planet and have it for themselves then I'd agree, their actions would seem rather illogical. But perhaps they have a completely different end-goal in mind, so therefore how can you say whether their actions are logical or not?

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

21

Re: Question Here

montalk wrote:

. . . Cosmic tyrants exist who seek to assimilate entire worlds into their empire. The premature invasion of those who have targeted us could lead to conflicts threatening the two resources they have come here to exploit: earth and its inhabitants. They prefer that we willingly hand over ourselves and the planet with the least amount of resistance. This can only happen under the condition that we are unaware of their true nature or agenda. Preparing such deception requires much groundwork. Thus, they have chosen to covertly and patiently manipulate human society toward that end.

The possibility exists this is a Source-designated free will zone and humanity must be tricked into willingly handing over the planet so these invaders are not in violation of universal laws governing this sector of reality.

I agree it's possible this negative agenda consists of "A conquest of minds and souls, [an agenda] that obeys metaphysical laws while operating within the physical environment." What seems to be occurring is a vibrational speeding up of this planetary body as well as an alteration of DNA strands within those who actively seek spiritual upliftment.  This suggests breakdowns are occurring such that what was once cleverly hidden from view is becoming increasingly revealed as light penetrates the dark and unmasks the machinations of entities who vibrate at an increasingly (perceptibly) slower rate relative to the planetary body.

An inversion of superior/inferior is taking place resulting in that which was once technologically superior and mentally advanced relative to humanity now finds itself inferior (and exposed) in relation to the spiritually alive and awakened members of humanity.

“You who have the light, what are you doing with it?” ~ Paul Claudel

22 (edited by calpamu 2007-06-07 07:41:25)

Re: Question Here

Good posts, when "free will" and "cosmic law"  are included it can give the sceptic another reason why logic ,as we humans know logic, is always at work according to how "others " derive it to be.


I just started "The Gods of Eden" and am amazed to discover that in 1919 Fort issued, "I think were property.I should say we belong to something.That something owns this earth,all others warned off."

The many sightings,cave paintings, and experiences documented throught out history,  tells us that the "UFO" is not a modern phenomenon.

It would be very hard to "hoax" lights in the sky or flying ships in 216 BC.

Ps: Oh aye, the timeline thingy,is it relative?

Does it really matter if UFo's are documented in 2000BC or 2000AD if "others" operate outside of the linear time?

23

Re: Question Here

Ayahuasca wrote:

Lack of logic is entirely a matter of opinion based on the amount of knowledge you have on a subject. Another thing to remember is that you can't necessarily apply human logic to 'alien' beings/oppressors. You're basically saying "it's not logical that these aliens would act this way" but what seems illogical to you may be perfectly logical to them. If you don't know how they think and you don't know what their real motives are then how can you say what's logical or illogical? All you're doing is making a whole lot of assumptions based on what little bit of information you've read on the subject.

If all they wanted to do was take over the planet and have it for themselves then I'd agree, their actions would seem rather illogical. But perhaps they have a completely different end-goal in mind, so therefore how can you say whether their actions are logical or not?

I am just point out the logical fallacies that the material gives.

I've read Montalk's link. Here is one of the claims (found in page 3 of the forth briefing):

"The visitors do not care how many of your people are destroyed so long as they have a primary allegiance amongst the majority."

If they do not care (as I had claimed in my "ignorance") why would they be concerned with "metaphysical agreements"?

More on page 4:

"Should the visitors become strong enough to gain complete control of the world, those who cannot conform will simply be
eliminated. Yet the visitors will not do the destruction. It will be wrought through the very individuals in the world who have fallen completely under their persuasion."

Why would they WAIT until we are able to communicate with each other, warning each other through the internet about all of this if they could have done their "persuasion" more effectively back then?

Another one from page 4:

"Life in the universe does not wait upon your readiness. Events will happen whether you are prepared or not. Visitation has occurred without your agreement and without your permission. And your fundamental rights are being violated to a far greater degree than you yet realize."

Developments have occurred "without our agreement and without our permission" according to this source.

So why didn't they use this "violation of fundamental rights" to impose this on us waaay before now?

That leads us back to my question that this might be a psy-op, due to the present nature of our technology.

Now the text is wonderful because it gives a metaphorical blue-print of life on Earth as we know it: lots of people looking for authorities figures to tell them what to do. Therefore the pervasiveness of sadomasochistic sexual relations in the world today.

But that it makes logical sense in other areas, I am not sure.

Re: Question Here

Truth Minion wrote:

"The visitors do not care how many of your people are destroyed so long as they have a primary allegiance amongst the majority."

If they do not care (as I had claimed in my "ignorance") why would they be concerned with "metaphysical agreements"?

The answer is in that very excerpt you just quoted. Why would they require primary allegiance amongst the majority? Why would they require it, if with their advanced technology they could easily overcome a military resistance by the majority of humanity, implying that it wouldn't matter that they don't have a majority allegiance? Again, it's because more than the crude idea of physical force is involved. It is because majority allegiance is what it takes to sign away the freewill of a planet. A majority constitutes a collective choice. When America "chooses" a President, maybe only 55% vote for him, and that the remaining 45% exist at all does not invalidate the idea that the process as a whole is supposed to constitute, through the electoral college, an agreement on who becomes President.

Truth Minion wrote:

Why would they WAIT until we are able to communicate with each other, warning each other through the internet about all of this if they could have done their "persuasion" more effectively back then?

It is not a freewill agreement unless there exists an alternative to choose, and if a planet chooses what they offer anyway despite that alternative, that makes it all the more binding. That's part of it. The other part is that only starting in the 20th century has the world adopted technology and logistics secure enough to create a global surveillance society. Such an infrastructure is needed to minimize the amount of work and material aliens themselves would have to provide. It is a lot easier to come in and take control of a pre-made control system.

And if you notice, the persuasion began a long time ago with the proper pieces being put into place (genetic alteration, establishment of religious control systems, assistance given to elite human factions to construct the global control system, creation of problems that will eventually justify the solutions they present, etc...). Or do you think that they could just "show up" without ever having had influence here before, and by simply asking for allegiance get it? No, it doesn't work that way. They are patient, calculative, and do everything possible to minimize risk, thus the "persuasion" is a very drawn out thing, and the posed question of allegiance is only the final stroke.

Also, to take a civilization from mainstream technology X to mainstream technology Y, there must be time in between for assimilation and integration. Approaching middle-ages kings and giving them laser guns is too big a leap. No, first the age of enlightenment, then the industrial revolution, then nuclear physics, relativity and quantum mechanics, then the leap to laser guns. All through little nudges and inspirations here and there, technology given to the secret elitist groups which trickles into mainstream after some time. It is only now that mainstream tech has caught up enough to make that final leap into restricted alien control tech without it being perceived as "magic" or "witchcraft." People are ready for it now. Their minds have been tenderized by decades of science fiction, and they would welcome it. Yet there has been inertia to overcome, maturation of the population to wait for, thus the drawn out process.

Developments have occurred "without our agreement and without our permission" according to this source.

So why didn't they use this "violation of fundamental rights" to impose this on us waaay before now?

Because these are just developments for the sake of preparation and not the final thing that truly counts. The final thing is the collective acquiescence of freewill. Until then, preparations can be made without collective agreement because it does not yet require it. To illustrate what I mean concerning preparation, imagine someone wants to crash your place and stay there for a month. You would not agree to it and might eventually tell him flat out no, which would prevent him from doing so, but your saying no does not prevent him from still packing his bags and driving to your town. He would do all that preparation without your agreement, but it does not matter because his doing so is not the final thing that counts. The final thing is your saying sure come on in and stay a while.

That leads us back to my question that this might be a psy-op, due to the present nature of our technology.

Which leads to the next question about where this technology came from and how it developed so quickly. It's been slow enough that people don't question it, but relative to technological development in the rest of our recorded history it has been an insane progression. From horse-drawn carriages to the moon and from punch cards to holographic memory storage in under 75 years? And if this is a psy-op due to our modern technological capabilities, then how do you explain advanced manipulation throughout history that began way before this human technology ever came into existence? Ancient stuff is littered with anomalies, even the Bible has anomalies like the Ark of the Covenant, the wheel of Ezekiel, the burning bush of Moses. Did the human black-ops of that time invent those contraptions? Alien technology is the more likely explanation, and if they had it back then, then they have that or better today.

There is a psy-op today that uses advanced technology, where human military factions can abduct people, implant screen memories of grays, send communications to the heads of naive channelers and remote viewers, program highly credential people to push an agenda without them knowing it. But these can be identified by their fruits, by their characteristic language and fallacious reasoning, their connections to each other, and toward what goals and adoption of beliefs they are persuading. It's not that aliens don't exist and that it is all completely the work of human factions, rather it is human factions under the control of manipulative aliens working to seed disinformation concerning the true nature of themselves and these aliens. That part of the agenda is very active right now. Read up on works by Steven Greer, Courtney Brown, Alfred Webre, Lyssa Royal, Whitley Strieber, Dan Burisch, Lisette Larkins, Robert Dean, Bill Ryan, and Richard Boylan if you want to see the true face of psy-op. Until you check some of these out, you won't have a proper comparison of what constitutes good material and what makes up disinformation.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

25

Re: Question Here

May I ask - since you have not addressed it - why you changed the settings of the board making it out of reach to unlogged guests?

Re: Question Here

Just a temporary measure for the benefit of the forum, but beyond that the reasons are too esoteric to explain here. Shouldn't be too much of an inconvenience since all members are able to read and post, and all guests have the option of being registered.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

27

Re: Question Here

What would these "benefits" be? And what would the "esoteric" "reasons" be too?

Lets be clear...

Some people do not want to register. Nor do they want to log in.

28

Re: Question Here

............i believe there may be quite a few here that would be interested in some form of explanation to the question posed above..........and by the way, great question/

29 (edited by Sowelu 2007-06-07 20:58:40)

Re: Question Here

I realize that it wouldn't do to simply trust without experienced cause or good reason, Truth Minion, especially to trust another person with whom you've been experiencing a difference of opinion... but I can also say from experience that it gets rather tedious to repeat oneself over and over to each new challenge of your earned authority.  With that in mind, I thought I'd run with my own intuition here and offer that...

...Even without the requested information, I'd say that NR is the place it is because of Tom's particular forum moderating practices. Between learned patterns of human behavior correlating with other recognized energetic influences, intuition, successfully applied methods of fine-tuning... Tom's efforts have kept this place from rarely if ever falling into one of those all too commonly seen disrespectful centers of mayhem found just about everywhere else on the 'net.

That said, I can appreciate that a description of how and what reasoning he's applied to the management/moderating of this place could be a learning experience for many.

Look here for explanations and the depth of understanding from which administrative actions are taken by Montalk here at NR: http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic. … 98&p=1

and here: http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=3421

And just found this quote by Montalk

montalk wrote:

It seems that necessity is a great catalyst for activating what otherwise stays latent. The necessities of moderation have forced me to employ a strange assortment of prognostications to nip problems in the bud. This skill has come in handy for avoiding problems in real life, like potential police encounters, accidents, and so on. As already mentioned on this thread, consider again the power of intuition. In a world road check points, secret arrests, natural disasters, etc... how much of a threat would these things be to you if your intuition alone warned you in advance of any impending trouble?

here: http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=3222

And there may well be others.

Being an administrator of a community myself, yes, I'm a fan of montalk's practices and have learned a thing or two from him over the years. But I also appreciate the value of challenges to one's authority and what can come from the earnest desire to meet them with right-action styled response-ability.

So I too look forward to Montalk's reply in this instance, should he offer one.

"The most important decision you have to make is whether you live in a hostile or friendly universe."
~ Albert Einstein

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. ~Marcel Proust

The evolution of humanity is an evolution of the heart. The path is through the heart.

30

Re: Question Here

Truth Minion wrote:

What would these "benefits" be? And what would the "esoteric" "reasons" be too?

Lets be clear...

Some people do not want to register. Nor do they want to log in.

then they don't have to ... some people also don't want to discuss things from a honest standpoint and just try to always be critical of whatever they can without offering anything ...

the reason why 'they' haven't just killed everyone is because 'they' are like the British in India and need to get endlessly willing locals for the dirty work ...  humans would not readily breed in captivity and thus need to be gently 'culled' into living life like everything is normal ...  in particular, constant stimulus is needed to encourage sexual reproduction ...  unlike you 'they' are not impatient and small minded and thus have no problems taking time to accomplish goals, even centuries, making resistance more difficult ...  like cigarettes, just one will not kill you, it's all about derivatives ...  the other possibility is that what 'they' want most are human bodies in which to live because the human form is superior to their own, so genetic diversity must be maintained through the encouragement of 'normal' society and breeding ...  'they' are just there to accelerate your spiritual evolution by providing choices, offering you temptation in order to get your free will until your last breath ...  'you' just want to believe in the holographic illusion 'they' provide because the alternative is too terrifying for your 'rational' mind to accept despite the overwhelming evidence ...  imagine that 'you' are really trapped in 'their' computer network/prison/playground/fortress which is highly advanced holography even when it appears primitive and simple as a sunny day ...  a thousand years ago, people fought with sticks and stones, and only the truly exceptionally gifted understood that they were just holograms like sprites in a video game that 'they' can control with nothing more than their consciousness ...  however if you witnessed this then perhaps 'you' might realize the truth and discover your abilities, hence the illusion must be maintained ...  there is nothing new under the sun as they say ... where 'you' come in is when 'they' need someone to dig ditches or wait tables or be an organ farm, so 'you' are necessary to incorporate into a human body in order to wait on 'them' ...  try this idea, nothing in the multiple universes exist except for individual souls, everything else is advanced holography ...  it is the most ironic thing in the universe that technologically advanced beings strive towards nothing more than living in human bodies and spend most of their time fighting with each other over money, yet 'our' true original intelligent creator does have a particularly curious sense of humor ...  smile