Re: Fringe Knowledge for Beginners - book by Montalk

Montalk wrote:

I now believe that people are as free in the afterlife as they are in the physical life, meaning that if while living they were slaves to highly material, ignorantly religious, or primitive forces, then after death their slavery would continue until their astral shells eventually dried up from all the draining and died that so-called "second death." It would also mean, however, that the more free you become in this life, the more free you will be afterwards. So although the situation could be ... weird or potentially depressing ... overall, hopefully there is more logic and reason to it than the possibility that no matter how aware you are you'll just be enslaved anyway after death. Maybe there is direct correlation between your spiritual awareness now, and it after. I mean, the Toltec idea of recapitulation ties into this, as does the Robert Monroe material about the lower astral planes and "belief system territories" in which are stuck only those who don't know better.

This is the same understanding I have come to believe, because if it didn't really matter how aware you were, we wouldn't have as much of the suppression of humanity and knowledge that we see all around us. Instead we have systems of belief that clamp down like vice-grips, unwilling to let go until you become aware of them.

47 (edited by limukala 2007-01-19 13:19:57)

Re: Fringe Knowledge for Beginners - book by Montalk

I sent this to my friend.  He loved it, even saying "I think he broke into my mind and wrote my book."

An interesting discussion arose when he reached the part on anticipation though, and I think it bears repeating, cause I'd like more perspective on this.  He said:

I don't agree with the following. In fact I think that in layers it is opposite. What ever we think about we give space to. If we anticipate mistakes, we give life to them. However in anticipating mistakes, we also create solutions, than the mistakes were not mistakes at all but rather guiding forms. I do give space to the subtle truths presented, however.

montalk wrote:

"upon it the spotlight of your awareness. This singles it out,
makes it freeze in its tracks, and puts it in your hands to
deal with. Notice how trouble happens when you least expect
it, and when you learn to expect it next time it fails to
happen again. This shows that anticipating negative possibilities
prevents them from manifesting, and that being unaware
allows them to happen more easily. The same goes
for positive possibilities–maybe you are certain you aced a
test only to find out you barely passed; or maybe you win a
prize from a contest only when you have forgotten all about
it or never thought you might win. Anticipating something
decreases its chances of manifesting. So learn to become
aware of possible problems in order to freeze them, while
avoiding anticipating the positive things."

I responded with:

haven't read that far yet, so can't authoritatively comment.  From what I know of the author though, he is a big proponent of the law of attraction (thoughts have power, visualization stimulates manifestation etc)

I think what he is getting at is that it can go both ways.  When you obsessively anticipate something, you can actually create the opposite.

My thoughts on manifestation are basically this, manifestation is through the aumakua/kane right, and the way we (our lono) can connect with the aumakua is through the ku, our body mind.  Thus the more potent the EMOTIONAL charge, the more likely the manifestation.  Intellectual focus without emotional charge is like a ship with a huge rudder and no sails, ain't gonna go nowhere.

The big problem is that the subconscious mind has much more potent connection to emotions, and therefore the focus on the subconscious mind has a much more powerful effect on manifestation.  This explains why people can consciously focus on positive things so much, but still have plenty of negative experiences.  If your subconscious mind is predominantly negative, that is what will manifest regardless of positive intention.  The only way around this is insanely difficult, namely CONSTANT presence and awareness.  If you are constantly in the present, you rob those unconscious loops of their power.

Whachiall tink?

seeker of truth

follow no path
all paths lead where

truth is here

E.E. Cummings

Re: Fringe Knowledge for Beginners - book by Montalk

To clarify, when I speak of Lono, Ku and Kane, I'm referring to the Huna system, whereby the mind is usually divided into three parts, the Lono/Uhane referring to the conscious mind or intellect, the Ku/Unihipili refers to the body mind, or subconscious.  That which an intrinsic part of the body and regulates unconscious body mechanisms, as well as being the source of emotions (which are more or less the Ku's reaction to what is happening in the Lono).  The Kane/aumakua is the spiritual component of mind, that which never dies and was never separate from the source/universal mind.  It is the source of all healing and your connection to the divine, but the only way the Lono can access it is through the Ku.

seeker of truth

follow no path
all paths lead where

truth is here

E.E. Cummings

49 (edited by montalk 2007-01-19 14:08:41)

Re: Fringe Knowledge for Beginners - book by Montalk

limukala wrote:

Whachiall tink?

I agree with your response. The emotional charge does appear to have attractive power as in "puller, caller, beacon, homing signal, radio tuner, advertiser" while a thought in itself is more form-oriented as in "selector, rudder, switcher, blocker, director." If they are in conflict, the stronger one will win. Like if my thought says "I choose success by preventing failure" but emotion says "I dread the inevitability of failure" then maybe the dread will be stronger and I fail in an unexpected way. Like sealing off a pipe, but having so much pressure that it breaks through an unseen flaw in the pipe fittings.

I tried to clarify this subtlety with what I said a couple pages later:

Fringe Knowledge wrote:

It is possible that by becoming aware of a danger you
become so fearfully obsessed with it that your negative atti-
tude actually draws it in. There are two solutions to this
problem. The first is purposely not thinking about dangers:
out of sight, out of mind; ignorance is bliss; and so on. And
yes, that avoids attracting the danger, however it does not
block it, so sooner or later it will come up and your lack of
awareness and preparation will leave you hurting. The sec-
ond solution is to stop being scared, depressed, obsessed,
or paranoid about the things you know or suspect. Easier
said than done, but it’s something to shoot for. If you can be
aware of a danger, know how to handle it, and yet not un-
controllably fear it, then you have all the protection you
need without the negativity that draws it towards you. 

Awareness, thoughts, and anticipation not only select
or filter probable futures, but help you deal with them
should they happen anyway. So once again, be aware of
possible problems and know how to counter them without
losing your positive attitude. Awareness is like a sword–
just flashing one at an attacker can scare him off and win
the fight before it even happens, but should the attack pro-
ceed anyway then the sword helps you survive. Awareness
is the greatest protection you can have; always seek to ex-
pand your understanding and realization. The two risks to
avoid are allowing something negative by being ignorant,
and drawing it in by being aware but emotionally obsessed.

I think the problem is a semantic one. What do we mean by "anticipation" or "expectation" - purely the intellectual awareness of it (which is what I meant) or also the emotional charge? When anticipating a mistake, dreading it fearfully and obsessively will draw it in.

Actually what's interesting is that the actual feeling of dread has a life of its own... as though you were being tugged in by the gravity field of that particular future. That's how you know you're accelerating towards it, because the tugging is distracting and preoccupies your mind rather than being solely the function of you choosing to think about it. Positive futures don't have gravity so much as levity...they don't pull you in, rather you rise toward them like a bird toward the sun. That is why maintaining or repeating a train of lofty thinking can shift you towards something more positive yet this takes effort and devotion, whereas shifting towards negative takes no effort at all...there you're just falling by default.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Fringe Knowledge for Beginners - book by Montalk

I read your book, Montalk and was very moved by it.  It resonated with me on many levels.   In some ways it was disturbing to me, particularly the part about the wormhole in the bedroom as I have reason to believe there is one in the closet across from my bed.   It made the sound that was described on the Jim Clark video of a whip circling in the air, only I described it as a helicopter blade, or a sound like the tongue on the roof of the mouth making a prrrr sound.    I have had things happen since the wormhole was first brought to my attention, now I am scared to sleep in my bed because I feel I have no control over what happens once I go to sleep.         

Thanks for making the book available.  It holds some valuable truths.

51 (edited by Lono 2007-01-26 11:37:03)

Re: Fringe Knowledge for Beginners - book by Montalk

I think another way to put the "anticipation" thing into perspective is to realize that some forms of anticipation contain seeds of doubt by their very nature.  For example, if I'm excessively obsessed about getting something, depending upon the nature of that obsession, I may really think I can't have it.  It's hard to explain, but I feel a difference inside myself when my strong desire is laced with a deep-seated feeling I can't have it.  If I know I can have it or do it, I just get it or do it.  I don't obsess over it. 

Say you get a desire for a candy bar, and there's a convenience store just a block away.  If you really want it, you'll get up and get it.  You have a choice, and so there is no obsession.  But if you have a strong desire for, say, a famous person, that can turn into obsession because deep down inside, you know your odds of having that person are slim to none.

Re: Fringe Knowledge for Beginners - book by Montalk

Tom, read it ...loved it!. Prudence v. paranoia resonated greatly with me. I see how my basking in paranoia has crippled my efforts to find my true path and to prepare further and  help others when opportunities present themselves. An especially good day is when you learn something profound. Today is a good day!......Thanks

" The truth is not for all men, but only for those who seek it "

Ayn Rand

Re: Fringe Knowledge for Beginners - book by Montalk

stormy wrote:

In some ways it was disturbing to me, particularly the part about the wormhole in the bedroom as I have reason to believe there is one in the closet across from my bed.   It made the sound that was described on the Jim Clark video of a whip circling in the air, only I described it as a helicopter blade, or a sound like the tongue on the roof of the mouth making a prrrr sound.

There is a thing you can whip around that makes a whrrrrrr sound, a bullroarer. See a video of one. I made one and named it "the kitty-caller" because no matter where the cat is in the apartment, when I swing it she comes into the room to check out the strange sound, haha. Cats can purr around the same lower frequency. The Egyptians, Celts, and numerous other cultures all had versions of these. I think they were used to create portals via their low-frequency sound waves radiating out in a vortex. So if what you described as a portal makes a prrrr sound, I think that is an interesting connection. Also see this interesting article about bullroarers. Just saying that a portal might make a similar sound via some vortex effect.

I have had things happen since the wormhole was first brought to my attention, now I am scared to sleep in my bed because I feel I have no control over what happens once I go to sleep.

Are you sleeping in the dark? That can get creepy if you expect something to step in anytime. As a kid I slept with the lights on, tape player going, and back against the wall. Now I just use that voice-activated tape recorder and sometimes turn on an LED light aimed at the spot in the room where astral critters have occasionally entered/exited. I think creating a comfortable and secure-feeling atmosphere can help you get in a more assured mindset which cuts off any unwarranted fear-based attraction of these phenomena.

Lono wrote:

I think another way to put the "anticipation" thing into perspective is to realize that some forms of anticipation contain seeds of doubt by their very nature.

Right on, and doubt contains fear of the consequences (hunger, lack, pain, shame, etc...) if things don't turn out as desired. If strong enough, that emotional charge can attract the feared possibility.

But if you have a strong desire for, say, a famous person, that can turn into obsession because deep down inside, you know your odds of having that person are slim to none.

Good observation...this phenomenon is so common. I think often such cases are motivated by an unrealistic fantasy that despite all odds, they can still somehow hook up with the famous person. So maybe worse than not getting to have something, is possibly getting something if you're very lucky. Like gambling or the lottery. The odds are pretty low of winning, and you can't force a win. But there's a slim chance you might. And there is where anticipation might really play into things... not only can a person get obsessive, but the repulsive effect of anticipation might ensure they never get what they want. Like a carrot on a stick -- donkey sees the  carrot, goes for it, and the carrot moves away just as quickly.

ShineOn wrote:

Prudence v. paranoia resonated greatly with me. I see how my basking in paranoia has crippled my efforts to find my true path and to prepare further and  help others when opportunities present themselves

Awesome, I'm glad that distinction clicked with you. As the sayings go, "Paranoia will destroy ya."  and "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you" - so if THEY don't get you first, paranoia will. Hahaha.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Fringe Knowledge for Beginners - book by Montalk

We have that sound here at the moment. It isnt exactly like the bullroar, its more like a giant helicopter is at the back of our house, and its blades are slowly winding down with a 'whhhoooom whhhoooom whhhoooom' chopping sound.

As I typed on the backwards in time thread I heard it, and mrs me heard it too. At the very second I posted the tread, the computer switched off. We went outside and were both hit by a very very low vibration, that you could hear as well as feel throughout your body. We both feel nauseous with headache and shakes.

Ive never had this before, its 'orrible. We are both sat in the living room listening to classical music (Beethoven) to overpower it.:D

Re: Fringe Knowledge for Beginners - book by Montalk

I have experienced the sound on two occassions.   The first time it was in my closet right accross from where I was sitting on my bed.  I seemed to feel like it was some sort of tear in the curtain of time.  Like something passing thru touching my world very briefly.      The second time I was half asleep, in that state that you weren't sure if you were awakened or were already awake when it happened.  *It* bieng the sound, only this time it seemed to take the shape of a circular motion around my neck area of the body.   It made that sound described above, or like you are spitting tobacco off your tounge.  A read fast tututu flutter.   It entered by circling around my throat and surging downward thru me.   I woke up, sat up, and said WTF.    This is the last time this happened.    The descriptions above are fairly accurate at describing the sound/feeling.   In and of itself, no big deal, but then again.  It is a big deal, it is an indicator of something.   I like the info on the bullroarer, it may be related as far as suggesting a medium for transport of some kind from realm to realm.

Re: Fringe Knowledge for Beginners - book by Montalk

Stormy, I don't know if this applies to you or not, but that's a sound often associated with going out of body.  If I remember correctly, I first read about it in Syvan Muldoon's book, and I've experienced it myself.  The fact that you heard and felt it around your head and neck fits this description, but I'm not sure about the time it was in the closet.  Are you prone to OBEs?

Re: Fringe Knowledge for Beginners - book by Montalk

The only thing I related to a possible OBE was one night about a year ago I was awakened in terrible fear feeling like something was on my back trying to kill me.   I was terrified when I woke up.  I couldn't move.   This is the only time I can relate anything close to an OBE.   Recently though I did wake up with what would be described as a "scoop" mark on my arm.  It was a hole in my flesh which healed from the inside out.  It had two marks beside the hole, one on either side of the hole.    I have had the ear/head ringing for a little over a year.  It is very intense at times.  High pitch ringing.   I also did a color meditation which involved dividing the four quadrants of the brain by color and meditating on them in a figure 8 design which resulted in a puncture mark on my arm (near the place of the scoop, but prior to the scoop) which was bleeding when I came out of the meditation.   I also am frequently woken up of late by pressure sounds in my head.

Re: Fringe Knowledge for Beginners - book by Montalk

Okay, one more excerpt from the book by Andrews, this one pertaining possibly to the sound you mentioned, Stormy:

Kenneth Grant makes the point repeatedly in his books that the rituals of a modern group which frankly described itself as "a lodge gone black" were persistently accompanied by an insectile buzzing sound, such as is often reported during UFO incidents, and that there was a sudden sharp increase in UFO sightings in the area where the ceremonies were taking place during the same aproximate time span. He also mentions that the original Arabic title of the Necronomicon grimoire has the meaning of "a nocturnal sound made by insects."

We have just seen how closely buzzing insectile sounds have been associated with apparitions of the Virgin mary, along with other indications that such apparitions may be UFO-related, or even directly staged by UFO occuptants from start to finish.

Is the same group of extra-terrestrials that manifests to devout Catholics as the Virgin Mary, manifesting to devout Satanists as the Old Ones whose return is imminent? Have they been cynically playing both sides of the conflict, like international bankers who loan money to both sides in a war, or deliberately bring about a war so that both nations or groups of nations will be obliged to ask for loans?

Not sure if the sound you heard could be described as an insectile buzzing. I do have some faint intuitive memories of "something" (like an abduction) that starts with the lights dimming or changing to an amber color, the air pressure changing, sound starting to get muffled, shadows in the room looking "wrong" as though light were not following its inverse square rule of diminishing with distance, and the startup of this buzzing sound. It wasn't a prrrrrr so much as a sharp bee-like buzz that would get louder and louder. For what it's worth....

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Fringe Knowledge for Beginners - book by Montalk

Interesting that bit about the "necronomicon". I only have 2 books by Grant (I read lots of fascinating snippets, but after 2 books he really didn't catch my fancy) but don't remember that being in them.

If it's true, Lovecraft prolly got the idea from the meaning of the popular name of the Legemeton grimoire,  "Goetia",  meaning "howling" (OOOOOooooo...), this synch (or not) throws ear tones and evocation in an interesting light:

The "Legemeton, The Lesser Key of Solomon King" is a roll-call of 72 convocable "evil spirits", reflections of the 72 Angels of the "Shemhamphorash", the "name of God" divided amongst the quinaries of the zodiac.

Perhaps the name "Goetia" stems from ear-tones resulting from it's use? Many modern occultists adopt the quite Jungian idea of the cacodaimonos (or any other invoked/evoked 'entities') representing parts of the psyche condensed for a session of 'therapeutic artificial schizophrenia' if you will. Maybe the psychic states involved are similar to (or caused by) the same sort of realm-meddling applied in abductions?

In evocation, who abducts whom? tongue

My experience hasn't touched invocation/evocation, beyond middle pillar exercise, but ear tones have always come and gone.

Love is the law, love under will.
   
     Zejith Themis
      .:420-510:.
    FIAT IUSTITIA
    RUAT COELUM

Re: Fringe Knowledge for Beginners - book by Montalk

Since reading  your replies I feel the need to look up some of the terminology that was suggested in reference to the sound/feeling I experienced.  I hesitate to completely call it a sound as the image in my mind perceived it as sound, but also as movement.

In the beginning I felt it was a positive thing, when it seemed to pass by thru my closet.  I visualized it as a river of glass with a tiger making the sound.   When it scanned down my body it still wasn't too disturbing because it seemed familiar after the first incedent.   It has become creepier since the physical intrusions on my arm.   I was doing the meditation in response to a thread on a website that invited readers to "enter the stream" to contact grays.   In reading further into the links on the thread I noticed a connection to Lucis Trust.  Hence the connection mentioned above by Montalk regarding the works of Kenneth Grant on "A lodge gone black"     

I tend to think this is more of mind manipulation than Alien contact.   Maybe a mixture of different things.   I appreciate any help or hints of resources that have been shared on here.  I will follow up with research to look for closure.

Also the person who authored the thread on "entering the stream" told me I was a silver carrier with a job to do and that I was to be systematically injected with material to enable me to do the so called job.   

Blue, your experience sounds very similar, except I didn't have the bad physical side effects.  Yours sounds very much like electromagnetic manipulation.

The vibration or frequency I experienced seemed like a low vibration sped up a zillionth.