Free Will Does Not Exist (Page 1 of 2)

Hehe, I've had this discussion on so many other forums in the past that I can answer this one pretty simply.

The fact is, many people think in black and white. When some people hear 'free will', to them it means 'absolute free will.' Then they think, "hey wait a minute I don't have free will! I can't fly, I fly swim out in space forever or turn into an ostrich!" Well of course you have free will, just not total free will. The level of free will that you experience as an entity is directly proportional to your level of consciousness. That is why the Absolute or God or whatever has total, absolute free will. God (please excuse the term, which I'm defining as 'All That Is') is pure absolute consciousness, capable of all that is possible. So God has absolute free will. Some would term this '7th density.' Humans, on the other hand, experience a very limited reality. That is why our free will is limited. The levels of density directly correspond to level of consciousness, which directly corresponds to level of free will, which directly corresponds to your level of awareness. Awareness, consciousness, and free will are all interchangeable terms.

How much free will does a rock have? Little or none. How much free will does a bird have? More than the rock, but still not much. How much free will does a human have? More than the bird and rock, but still not absolute free will. Each of these entities also has an increasing amount of consciousness and awareness. So, as we shift into '4th denisty,' what is actually happening is an expansion or increase of consciousness and awareness, somewhat like expanded consciousness under the influence of psychedelics. Along with the shift in consciousness we'll receive an increase of free will as a result of increased awareness of reality.

This is the 'point' of spiritual evolution. To reach the state of total awareness/free will/consciousness as All That Is. So consider this analogy: let 7th density be White and 1st density Black. If you consider your level of awareness and free will as a level of light, then the density levels in between are increasingly lighter shades of Gray.

I hope that explains it well enough.

Heh heh.

I agree with BB and Seeker, that limited freewill does not imply freewill is nonexistent. Like BB said, there are many things that can give us the temporary impression that freewill might not exist -- but usually its a freewill choice to begin with that creates this illusion. For example, choosing to enter into some binding contract, or assuming upon ourselves certain limitations.

To illustrate, if you choose to break a law and get thrown in jail for a couple years against your will, do you have freewill or not? Of course you do - but the consequences of prior choices limit the choices you have available now.

On a positive note, the consequences of making good choices expands the choices you have available now, which is why freewill can be used to expand or limit further freewill depending on how you use it.

I don't know about others, but experiences can offer a whole multitude of choices that may or may not ensue.  It's sort of like the "box of chocolates".  Experiences may be SO dissected/over analyzed that one may inadvertantly miss  tasting those chocolates-even the ones we don;'t really like.  And when you do get one of those really awful tasting ones, you spit it out and try another one.

Yes!  Awareness.  Society seems to ignore the intuitive part of this by constanly stressing the intellectual aspect, shoving aside whatever doesn't fit into this current mindset.  For myself this can be an avoided trap, but traps do serve a purpose in that they can ultimately teach us to "see".

Intuition says we have freewill. It's self-evident, we can feel it, we know it. Yes, the intellect is first to doubt it because the intellect itself is only a computer without freewill that runs on programs and likes to project its limitations upon other things. But even on intellectual grounds, one can make a good argument for freewill:

Good question. In order for decisions to be nothing more than outputs of subroutines, there must be a one-to-one correspondence between cause and effect - in other words, given a certain cause, there must be a certain predictable effect. If not, then the ambiguity would require something outside causality to create the final outcome, which would have to be freewill choice.

So, assuming that our decisions are only links in a chain of causality and therefore not decisions at all, this would mean the next step would have to follow the progression of the previous steps. This means, given an impulse, we will make the most probable response.

But you will notice that for every impulse that affects us, every program triggering, environmental stimulus, every feeling we have -- there is indeed a default reaction that would be in line with the progression of previous experience and programming, but it is also possible to counter this, not by employing another program, but simply by choosing to act against it.

If we are products of our programs, how can we act against the program commands and disobey our impulses? Why, if all the conditions are right for us to react one way is it possible for you to act another way? Since the final outcome is not the expected causal effect of the initial cause, there must be something outside causality having created it:  freewill.

So what I'm saying is, the very fact that we can choose between following the logical progression of previous effects or choose to act against this progression shows that we have choice. Of course, most people don't act from their conscious cores where freewill resides, and simply respond like puppets to stimulus and programs - but this doesn't disprove the idea that freewill exists.

Lastly, there's a problem with the idea of knowing all the initial conditions and system characteristics of someone to predict their next move, showing that their behavior is deterministic. The problem is that some of these initial conditions and system characteristics involve quantum properties which, as far as modern physics can determine, include variables that simply cannot be predicted with absolute certainty...and so the final outcome cannot be predicted perfectly either. Something outside mathematics, outside causality is determining what these quantum variables, and hence the final outcome should be. This "something" must be consciousness/freewill because it's not anything causal, physical, or material.

This also shows why awareness is the key - without knowing what the default causal reaction is, you might end up making it and thus only be following programs. The first step to making a real choice is to know the options. Determinism/causality says only one option is the most probable, but we have the choice to choose another and thus act nondeterministically.

Very true!   Doing something because you were acting on a "hunch" or because your "intuitive guide voice told you so" doesn't go over too well in the mainstream world now, does it?!      haha    They want logic!   They want things to make sense!   Problem is, intuition doesn't always make sense.  I've learned this the hard way.   On another thread I posted my personal story about getting in my car back in '96 to drive home from work, despite hearing an intuitive guide voice telling me not to, and to go back inside and hang out with my coworkers....for just 5 minutes.   But it didn't make "logical sense", so, I didn't listen, and got in that car anyway.   Five minutes later, I was in an accident and my car was totaled, and my life careened onto a completely new timeline, one that was not positive.   If I'd only listened to intuition.   Now I know, and I've learned. 

I was serious when I said that Stuart's quote about lurching from one bad choice to the next was the story of my life......!    It really is!       Bad choice after bad decision after poor  judgement call made in a moment of rash hurriedness.    Free will isn't about "making choices."   Free will is about rising above being asleep and unaware, rising above the urge to act without thinking which causes one to be at the whim of negative forces who are eager to jump in and exploit those weak moments of cluelessness.   Free will is about gaining personal power over one's reality.