61 (edited by lyra 2006-04-18 11:54:30)

Re: Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information

tenetnosce wrote:

What a freakazoid!  I kind of wish I were more surprised to hear about this kind of behavior coming from a married church deacon.

dreamosis wrote:

I can totally picture that...Gross.  I think people who have secret feelings (like lust) find ways to publicly communicate them in order to relieve the mental pressure, like through super-friendliness.  But for anyone who is awake, the real feelings are obvious.

Yeah...he was also VERY needy for attention.  When he would come into the office, he would hone in on me and start asking dumb questions, repeating himself, doing anything to keep a conversation going and going and going, and try to make sure that it was all about him.  "Pay attention to me!  Me me me!  I'm here!  Look at me!  Here I am!!"  It got to the point where I would not look at him when he'd come in, I'd keep my eyes fixed on the computer, pretending I was soooo busy on whatever I was doing, and give an off-to-the-side "hi" and feign distracted busy-ness.   But the more I did that, the harder he tried.  At one point when I was training my replacement, he said bye to me three times within a minute.   Even though I said bye he kept saying it.  He'd say "Bye Carissa...." and I'd say Okay, bye....then he went back to talking to whoever else was in the office.  Then "Bye Carissa!!".....okay, nod, BYE....then back to the other person.  Then "Bye Carissa!!"  yet AGAIN, now staring intensely at me, even leaning down a little.   He just wanted attention.  It was annoying.   I had to actually "explain" that particular incident to my trainee.   It was weird and noticeable enough that it had to be addressed.

Also, upon meeting my replacement, he acted like he'd known her forever, super hyper and friendly and enthusiastic, like an excited dog.  But the WEIRD part was, he kept repeating that he "knew" her husband, he was "friends with her husband."   She furrowed her brows while smiling politely, like, "okayyyy..."  (that's her favorite phrase too, haha  "Ohh-kaaayyyyy....")  He kept insisting that Yeah, yeah, he knew her husband, blah blah blah.  She was weirded out, because here's this guy excitedly proclaiming that he was "friends" with her husband...and she's the wife, and she has no idea who this dude is.  If they were friends, shouldn't she know who he is??

She asked her husband about it and it turns out he met her husband one time, through mutual friends, for about 20 minutes....like a year ago or something......at a concert.  !!!  So yeah, after that, I definitely had to broach the subject of this deacon with her, like, Yeah....he's a little, um, weird.......   haha



tenetnosce wrote:

More and more I get the urge to just calmly look one of these people in the eyes and say, "You know you're behaving like a complete nutjob, right?"  Just to see what they'd say. . .

big_smile   I love it.  I seriously wanted to do that in my own above situation.  It takes guts though!   But yeah, seriously, what would happen if we started to do this to people who are acting freaky??    If anybody tries it, let us know.

Anyway, I saw dreamosis' new thread about reading people, so since this is off topic, I'll stop here!  smile

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

62 (edited by tenetnosce 2006-04-18 13:29:07)

Re: Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information

lyra wrote:

"Pay attention to me!  Me me me!  I'm here!  Look at me!  Here I am!!"

Yes, and this phenomenon is getting worse.

A few weeks ago we had one of those surprise busy nights in the restaurant, and of course, I am the only one scheduled.

So here I am playing manager, server, and bartender.  I've got 12 tickets open, and the entire floor to myself.  One of them is this 8-top.   I had to go over to the table twice to get their drink order, and then another two times to get the food order, the second of which they made me (hehe "made me") stand there for five minutes while they all decided what they wanted.  Then while ordering every other person has to stop and ask me if I am going to write anything down.  No I'm not.  Why not?  I don't know because I'm a super-genius.  I dunno, what do you want me to say. . just place your freeking order already!

So then they get their food, exactly as ordered.  But of course that doesn't count for anything. Now if somebody's water glass is empty for more than 10 seconds they're craning their neck around to see where I am.  Um. . . attending to the other 40 people, maybe?  I know you are out of water. . I'm a super-genius remember?

Anyhow I give them their check, with gratuity added, cause I know where this is going.  They get up to leave and one guy stops. . not the one who paid the bill mind you. . . and points his finger at me and yells in the middle of the restaurant "This was the worst service EVER! You gave us -no- attention the entire night, and then you've got the gall to add a gratuity onto our bill?  You're a bad person!"

"A bad person?"  Alrighty then.

The funny thing was, in addition to the four times I went over to their table before they placed their order, I went over another three times to check on them, ask how everything was and if they needed anything.  Oh and also, the food runner had been over there four times herself.  So let's see that's 11 points of contact during an hour and a half visit.  Oh I see. .. you didn't get enough attention.

So there I am standing behind the bar with a counter full of regulars staring at this guy like he is out of his mind.  I just calmly look at him and say, "Would you like the gratuity back?"

Oh no. . he didn't want the money back cause of course that would give him nothing to bitch about.  Nevermind that it wasn't even his money.  Completely defused his tirade, by the way, since his whole strategy was based on the assumption that I was going to argue with him in order to defend the 20 bucks.

Funny. . I had a 22% tip average that night.  Guess my service really sucked donkey balls.

That, of course, is just one example.

Point being that this kind of thing is EVERYWHERE and rapidly becoming more and more frequent.  Especially since last November.

I'm just hoping it's like the final death throes of the collective ego or something. . .

It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.

Re: Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information

tenetnosce wrote:

More and more I get the urge to just calmly look one of these people in the eyes and say, "You know you're behaving like a complete nutjob, right?"  Just to see what they'd say. . .

LMAO.  I'm gonna try it.  Will report.

tongue

"The unknown does not incite fear, but dependence on the known does." - J. Krishnamurti

64 (edited by dreamosis 2006-04-22 18:21:31)

Re: Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information

***LONG POST***

All right, after having "A Course in Miracles" pop up in my life a couple of times in the last week, I decided to apply my list of possible signs of misinfo that I posted above.

Beforehand I want to say that I find concepts and practices put forth in ACIM helpful, but my gut reaction to the book has always been "Unh-uh."  Perhaps it is my ego revolting, but I don't feel that that's it entirely.

Also, before I dive into the list here's a few "from-the-hip" observations I had about the book:

(1) It was printed so that it would look like the Bible or a scripture.  It has no pictures on its covers, the cover is the faux blue leather, and the pages are the light-weight, crinkling, Bible-like pages.  It's generally seen in a 6x9.  The publishers didn't choose this format by mistake.  It was intentional.

(2) It's in chapters and verses like the Bible.  (Apparently, this was a later change.  Prompted by the voice?  Or decided upon by the scribe?  The introduction doesn't specify.)

(3) It always uses the "Him" form for God and, as far as I can tell, always refers to the reader as a "he."  Most writers do that, but well, I can't help but feel it's intentional and not just a convenience because it's so prevalent (although it's never explained as far as I can tell--I haven't read every word).     

(4) The tone is authoratative throughout the book:

ACIM wrote:

...Some of the ideas the workbook presents you will find to believe, and others may seem quite startling.  This does matter.  You are merely asked to apply the ideas as you are directed to do.  You are not asked to judge them at all.  You are asked only to use them.  It is their use that will give them meaning to you, and will show you that they are true.

Remember only this; you need not believe the ideas, you need not accept them, and you need not even welcome them.  Some of them you may actively resist.  None of this will matter, or decrease their efficacy.  But do not allow yourself to make exceptions in applying the ideas the workbook contains, and whatever your reactions to the ideas may be, use them.  Nothing more that that is required. (Workbook, p.2)

...hear but the Voice for God...He will direct your efforts, telling you exactly what to do, how to direct your mind, and when to come to Him in silence, asking for His sure direction and His certain word." (Workbook, p.487)  Emphases mine.

Okay, here's how it did with (part of) my list:

On Logic
The first lesson from the workbook tells you to constate that "Nothing I see in this room means anything."

The twenty-ninth lesson is "God is in everything I see." ("God is in this coat hanger, God is in this magazine," etc.)

However, the thirtieth lesson is "God is in everything I see because God is in my mind."

So...okay, by the Voice we're told to disconnect from the illusion and to constate that there is no meaning in anything we see.  All is Maya.  Then we're told God is in everything you see.  And then: God is in your mind and your mind creates what you see, so everything you see is God. 

But don't forget lesson #10: "My thoughts do not mean anything."  Or, lesson #11: "My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world."

What the Hell?!  Which is it?  Is God everywhere?  Is God meaningful?  Is God in the illusion?  Is God an illusion?

The book directs you to repeat these statements to yourself like mantras.  What does it do to a mind to say to itself back-to-back: (1) this is coathanger isn't real, and then (2) God is in this coathanger?

On Consistently Extreme POV
The book opens with the statement: "Nothing unreal exists" and then later defines the ego as not real. 

If the ego is capable of keeping one from realizing the truth and returning to "Him," in what way is it not real?  It seems to be a contradiction.  Yet there is an absolute insistence on this or that being not real throughout the book.   

Also, this isn't so much a review of the book, but the two friends I know who are ACIM-fans vehemently insist that negative entities do not exist because evil is not real and nothing unreal exists.  They've quoted the book to me to "prove" there are no Negs.

Here are collection of quotes from another forum I frequent from a guy who was recently pushing ACIM, too:

A Guy Who Likes ACIM wrote:

...Yet as the Course and Disappearance inform, TRUTH IS, whether you accept it, believe it, want it, or not...

...I'm telling you that A Course in Miracles IS the motherload!!...

...I don't mean to be preachy if I come out that way. I apologize. Yet, the truth is that TRUTH IS...

Namedropping
In some ways I feel that the book is a giant Jesus Christ namedropping.  I only make that argument because it's my perception that big-time ACIM-fans are ex-mainstream-Christians who've made a transition into the New Age.  If the book used a gender-neutral form for God and wasn't said to be written by Christ, would it have a smaller audience?  A bigger one?  I don't know.   

Verbosity Without Substance
The book is hefty.  And when I'm flipping through it I have the impression of reading the same statement reworded on different pages.

Here's an example of what I mean:

ACIM wrote:

...I do not foster level confusion, but you must choose to correct it.  You would not excuse insane behavior on your part by saying you could not help it.  Why should you condone insane thinking?  There is a confusion here that you would do well to look at clearly.  You may believe that you are responsible for what you do, but not for what you think.  The truth is that you are responsible for what you think, because it is only at this level that you can exercise choice.  What you do comes from what you think.

There is definitely substance in that quote, but it is verbose and redundant.  And it's a thought that should be obvious to somebody who's read only ten pages of the book, but that quote is from a hundred pages in or so.  So it has little substance at the point in the book that it's at (if you're reading linearly).  It's like a re-run.

On Vagueness

This is a quote from the "Clarification of Terms" section:

ACIM wrote:

What is the ego?  Nothingness, but in a form that seems like something...Who asks you to define the ego and explain how it arose can be but he who thinks it real, and seeks by definition to ensure that its illusive nature is concealed behind the words that seem to make it so...What is the ego?  What the darkness was.  Where is the ego?  Where the darkness was.  What is it now and where can it be found?  Nothing and nowhere...Where is the ego?  In an evil dream that but seemed real while you were dreaming it.

Oh.  ...Actually, I think that's quite poetic and I like it, but thrust of the book (as I understand it) is to dispel the ego and forgive yourself and return to "Him."  And I guess you do this ultimately by realizing that there's no ego to dispel..."Whew! It was all a dream.  Thank goodness."

It's like: "We're sorry, we can't tell you WHAT the ego is because then you'd think it was real and it isn't real.  Meanwhile, please stop being egocentric..."

Is it a paradox being presented or just nonsense?  If it's unreal then why do we perceive it at all?  Why is there a book discussing it at length?  If it is possible to put our attention into it and thereby to stop ourselves from an objective knowing, then how is it unreal again?  If it doesn't exist, then why do I need to do exercises in order to know that it doesn't?

On Obligating or Commanding Verbiage
See the bolded quotes near the top.

*In favor of ACIM there is no labeling, emotionalization, the tone is commanding but is calm, there isn't a "chosen people" routine, and its overt focus is upon unity, forgiveness, and love.     

I won't overlook the latter. 

As for the source (or scribe), very little is revealed about Helen Schucman in the introduction.  She was an atheistic psychologist who, shortly after the head of her department--William Thetford--announced that "he was tired of the angry and aggressive feelings [their] attitudes reflected" and that there must be "another way" she began hearing the Voice and transcribing its words in shorthand.  It also mentions that three months before the Voice began she had "highly symbolic dreams" and "strange images" coming to her.  She said that the transcribing process "made me very uncomfortable, but it never seriously occurred to me to stop."  (Made her ego uncomfortable?)  It took seven years to complete the book.

You can't change a tiger's stripes,
but you can avoid its teeth.

Re: Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information

Unusual proof taken to unusually naive conclusions - this works on both skeptics and the superstitious. Basically something amazing is demonstrated that overwhelms the target into believing not only what that demonstration proves, but all the disinformation piggybacking on it.

Example: some astral entity communicates through a ouija board and claims to be Nostradamus. The channelers are skeptical. The entity then correctly predicts several news events in the coming week. The channelers are so blown away they conclude it really must be Nostradamus.

Example: some New Age hotshot claims to be channeling Sananda. A naive spiritual seeker attends one of his channeling sessions wondering whether the guy is for real. The voice of Sananda speaks through the channeler and tells the naive seeker he will momentarily be given a DNA upgrade. Suddenly the seeker feels an undeniable electrical tingle through his body. He leaves the session a total believer.

Example: a skeptic reads the pro-alien material but remains unconvinced that aliens exist. Then one night he has an amazing alien encounter which proves to him without a doubt they are real. He then regrets having dismissed the pro-alien material and becomes a zealous advocate for the Visitors.

Example: a text containing tons of disinformation keeps underscoring a couple key points that are undeniably true and delightfully insightful. The naive readers will be so impressed by the latter that they take the rest on faith.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information

montalk wrote:

Unusual proof taken to unusually naive conclusions 
Example: some New Age hotshot claims to be channeling Sananda...Suddenly the seeker feels an undeniable electrical tingle through his body. He leaves the session a total believer.

This highlights again the issue of artificial synchronicity for me. 

I remember when I was a teenager and I read "The Celestine Prophecy."  I've never gone back to that book series and it served its purpose for me, but there is a concept pushed in the book that could lead to trouble.

The book's first insight is that "there are no coincidences." 

A person who wholly accepts this as truth and takes any coincidence as a nod from her higher self could find herself in deep crapola.  I mean, who is to say that coincidences can't be triggered by the energies of the ego as well as arranged by the Higher Self or the purified energies of the person?

A psychic reader also told me a while back about a trick that other, profit-driven psychics use: they read the energy of a person corresponding to a probable future, tell the person about it, and then intentionally spit energy into that "probability bubble" (or whatever you want to call it) and then...Lo and behold that probable future manifests and the person returns to the psychic.

You can't change a tiger's stripes,
but you can avoid its teeth.

Re: Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information

dreamosis wrote:

This highlights again the issue of artificial synchronicity for me.

Yes, a very important issue. The difference between helpful and manipulative synchronicities goes  rarely acknowledged, and even if acknowledged the uncertainty in discerning which is which can cause some worry. Experience, intuition, and critical thinking will, over time, train one to more accurately distinguish between them.

The most suspicious synchronicities are those that military-alien forces would have the easiest time orchestrating. Consider their ability to remote view probable futures, program the target during abductions, and send multiple controllable puppets to intersect the target or perhaps influence the thoughts, speech, and behaviors of key individuals in that target's life. Even so, there are some synchronicities they simply cannot pull off. But what little they can do, they artificially amp up the "uncanny" factor so as to dazzle and thus influence the target. So the manipulative synchronicities tend to be overblown gimmicky productions designed to persuade. Some are so cheap even government intelligence agencies could fake them.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information

montalk wrote:

...they artificially amp up the "uncanny" factor so as to dazzle and thus influence the target. So the manipulative synchronicities tend to be overblown gimmicky productions designed to persuade. Some are so cheap even government intelligence agencies could fake them.

The closest example of I personally have of this is from last summer.  I was camping with friends, talking about aliens and UFOs.  My skeptic friend was saying, as usual, how he didn't and couldn't believe in it all. 

No more than a minute later a UFO flew over us.  I'm pretty sure it was a government craft, but I'd definitely never seen anything like it: dark, diamond-shaped, unblinking red lights at its corners, a circle of random fast-flashing lights along the bottom, fast, and as far as I could tell, soundless. 

It was uncanny.  My skeptic friend laughed at the coincidence. 

The experience didn't feel "organic" to me, but arranged.

I think you really have something in "designed to persuade."  Natural synchronicities, to me, don't feel persuasive at all, but are just there, saying "Yoo-hoo."

I can't think of a concrete example right now, but I know I've had meaningful coincidences in the presence of others.  And we both notice the coincidence.  And then the other person says, "Wow.  I guess you should do it" or something like that.

You can't change a tiger's stripes,
but you can avoid its teeth.

Re: Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information

Bad use of counter-example

Example: James Randi gives the same horoscope to everyone in a test group. Each person believes the horoscope is unique to him or her, thus supposedly proving that all horoscopes are subjective and bunk. In truth, it only proved the version he gave was vague enough to be subjective. Astrology is a mixed phenomenon of legitimate and illegitimate practices, and examples of the latter do not exclude existence of the first.

Example: Someone points to New Agers who hit skid row after putting too much blind faith in the "You Create Your Own Reality" paradigm, thereby concluding that YCYOR is love-n-light baloney. This fails to account for a mixed phenomenon where some methods are more successful than others, and the failures do not deny the successes.

Example: Someone points to all the positive experiences recounted by "experiencers" to prove that aliens can't possibly be bad. This reasoning is too simplistic and does not legitimately deny the existence of negative experiences.

Example: Someone buys you presents to disprove your assertion he might just be a prick. In truth, it may be a mixed phenomenon of a prick who buys you presents. Doing something nice does not prove one is a nice person.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information

dreamosis wrote:
montalk wrote:

Unusual proof taken to unusually naive conclusions 
Example: some New Age hotshot claims to be channeling Sananda...Suddenly the seeker feels an undeniable electrical tingle through his body. He leaves the session a total believer.

This highlights again the issue of artificial synchronicity for me. 

I remember when I was a teenager and I read "The Celestine Prophecy."  I've never gone back to that book series and it served its purpose for me, but there is a concept pushed in the book that could lead to trouble.

The book's first insight is that "there are no coincidences." 

A person who wholly accepts this as truth and takes any coincidence as a nod from her higher self could find herself in deep crapola.  I mean, who is to say that coincidences can't be triggered by the energies of the ego as well as arranged by the Higher Self or the purified energies of the person?

A psychic reader also told me a while back about a trick that other, profit-driven psychics use: they read the energy of a person corresponding to a probable future, tell the person about it, and then intentionally spit energy into that "probability bubble" (or whatever you want to call it) and then...Lo and behold that probable future manifests and the person returns to the psychic.

I totally agree with you on the *coincidences*.  I did read all J.Redfields books. I have had many coincidences that if I had taken them as ...*ooh, this must mean something positive*, I would have been screwed.     

On the psychic reader...has anybody ever watched Sylvia Browne on the Montel Williams show?  People are absolutely spellbound by her. I think its great that she helps the police and such with crime solving, she seems pretty accurate there, but let's face it, she did say that she is channeled the information from her *guide*...what people dont seem to get it is....what makes them think that her *guide* has accurate info? She tell everybody that aliens are ALL friendly and that there is no such thing as demons.  There are a lot of people that would disagree with that!   When people ask her questions about their future, maybe somehow she does send energy into  a probable future for that person, especially when they aske generic ?'s like, when will I get married?...blah, blah, blah...Sylvia could say..in 2yrs..and it happens in a year and a half and the person is like...wow, she was right! Sylvia would be much better off just sticking with the crime-solving...it scares me to see these people blindly believe everything she says, and need people like her inorder to make any decisions in their life.

In man's analysis and understanding of himself, it is as well to know from whence he came as whither he is going.   Edgar Cayce

Beliefs are tools for social conditioning, rather than expressions of inner realization or inner truth.   unknown
Ad Verecundiam

Re: Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information

dreamosis wrote:

A person who wholly accepts [that there are no coincidences] as truth and takes any coincidence as a nod from her higher self could find herself in deep crapola.  I mean, who is to say that coincidences can't be triggered by the energies of the ego as well as arranged by the Higher Self or the purified energies of the person?

A psychic reader also told me a while back about a trick that other, profit-driven psychics use: they read the energy of a person corresponding to a probable future, tell the person about it, and then intentionally spit energy into that "probability bubble" (or whatever you want to call it) and then...Lo and behold that probable future manifests and the person returns to the psychic.

montalk wrote:

The difference between helpful and manipulative synchronicities goes  rarely acknowledged, and even if acknowledged the uncertainty in discerning which is which can cause some worry. Experience, intuition, and critical thinking will, over time, train one to more accurately distinguish between them.

The concept of artificial synchronicity is probably the single-most impactful idea I've come across in a long time.

I wholly bought the "follow synchronicity" line and found myself in all sorts of unwanted circumstances as a result.  Of course, it is a useful tool.  But sometimes I would follow the clues down a path and everything would seem to magically move out of my way until WHAM! I hit a brick wall.

Time and time again I found myself licking my wounds wondering what had happened.  What had I done wrong?  Was there something I missed?  I experienced so much sadness, anger, and frustration around this.

Where this showed up most profoundly was in romantic relationships.  I would meet somebody and have this "uncanny" synchronistic experience which would lead me into getting into a relationship.

Things would go along well for a while, and then the attacks would start.  Not directly on me, but on my girlfriend.  It would begin with simple visitations.  "I think somebody's in my house."  "I had the strangest dream last night."  And so on. 
I would try my best to educate my significant other on negs and how to handle them, but I kept finding myself struggling to balance between giving enough information, and not so much at once as to sound like a complete nutjob. 
Things would escalate.  Manipulations.  Provocation of arguments.  Et cetera.  The biggest frustration about it was that none of the attacks were anything that I couldn't handle personally, so in essence I've got somebody I really care about being used to get to me. And that really pissed me off.

Again and again I would fall into the trap of feeling responsible, and take everything on myself.  Try to play the "hero" and all that.  But I would fail.  Every time.

Then I would swear at the universe because I couldn't figure out why this person was "brought to me" only to have every obstacle imaginable thrown in my face to keeping us together.  I used to say that it felt like a "setup" and that's exactly what it was.

It was precisely because of one of these experiences that I ended up at montalk.net perusing the articles. . and there it was!  Negative synchronicity.  One simple misunderstanding that caused all those years of grief.

Now it's clear to me that it would be unwise to get into anything more than a casual relationship with anybody who does not already have a firm grip on the subject of negative greetings.  Still looking for the opportunity to test that theory. 
Maybe Aya can work that somehow into his dating site.  wink

It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.

72 (edited by Ayahuasca 2006-04-28 00:21:24)

Re: Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information

tenetnosce wrote:

Maybe Aya can work that somehow into his dating site.  wink

Watch this space, something's coming in the next couple of weeks wink

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Re: Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information

tenetnosce wrote:

Then I would swear at the universe because I couldn't figure out why this person was "brought to me" only to have every obstacle imaginable thrown in my face to keeping us together.  I used to say that it felt like a "setup" and that's exactly what it was.

It was precisely because of one of these experiences that I ended up at montalk.net perusing the articles. . and there it was!  Negative synchronicity.  One simple misunderstanding that caused all those years of grief.

It is one of the reasons why I quite close relationship.
Now I could even find a pattern.
If a new Pictus emerge, capable to see what is black in black
and what is white in white, I may resume.

Bye, Pictus

--------------------
http://pictus.co.nr

Re: Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information

I'm almost finished with a mini-article (okay, seven pages) that condenses this thread--or at least my own take on it all--narrowing it down to nine possible signs of misinfo or disinfo. 

The nine signs I chose were:

(1) propagandizing
(2) poor logic
(3) falsehood (finding any falsehood)--obvious but important
(4) consistently extreme point-of-views
(5) vagueness
(6) authoritarianism
(7) specialness
(8) jargon
(9) discouragement of critical analysis

I feel that these, while I don't pretend it's a definitive list by any means, are good indicators of misinfo or disinfo--in full combination especially, but also in pairings.  There are weak pairings--pairings that don't necessarily reveal a negative intent but just reveal weakmindedness.  But I think most combinations of those signs allow a person to evaluate whether information is "good" or "bad" information.

Also, I purposely narrowed it down to a list of signs that could be detected by a reasoning process instead of an intuitive process.  I figured that if you're really in doubt about some information then your intuition is probably on the fritz and what you need is reason.

I chose them based on these four assumptions:

(1) logic is helpful in evaluating spiritual information

(2) information from a high spiritual level is:
(a) non-judgmental
(b) non-nepotistic

(3) genuine messengers of spiritual information are clear and concise, although the ideas they present may be complex

(4) genuine spiritual messengers encourage going within, testing the information, deconstructing it, re-synthesizing it (making it your own).  Spiritual information isn't copyrighted and its messengers aren't profit-motivated.

You can't change a tiger's stripes,
but you can avoid its teeth.

Re: Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information

dreamosis wrote:

I'm almost finished with a mini-article (okay, seven pages) that condenses this thread--or at least my own take on it all--narrowing it down to nine possible signs of misinfo or disinfo. 

The nine signs I chose were:

(1) propagandizing
(2) poor logic
(3) falsehood (finding any falsehood)--obvious but important
(4) consistently extreme point-of-views
(5) vagueness
(6) authoritarianism
(7) specialness
(8) jargon
(9) discouragement of critical analysis

Good list!  So what are you going to do with your article?  Is it going to go on the NR front page too?    That would be one great place for it, to give it lots of exposure!



I liked your reasoning too for why you chose these items.  In particular, I liked the ones that are bolded:

dreamosis wrote:

I chose them based on these four assumptions:

(1) logic is helpful in evaluating spiritual information

(2) information from a high spiritual level is:
(a) non-judgmental
(b) non-nepotistic

(3) genuine messengers of spiritual information are clear and concise, although the ideas they present may be complex

(4) genuine spiritual messengers encourage going within, testing the information, deconstructing it, re-synthesizing it (making it your own).  Spiritual information isn't copyrighted and its messengers aren't profit-motivated.

I liked those, as I've found those two bolded items to be very true.  In fact - synchronicity - this morning I was thinking about how soooooooooooooo many New Agers  are always out there trying to make money ("scamming" was the word that I actually had in mind when I thought this) by selling all these devises and do-dads and trinkets and stuff.   Selling divining cards and seminars and workshops and all this nonsense.   I don't know, maybe some of it works, but it just seems to be the hallmark of the New Age movement......everybody's got something to sell.  Everything comes with a price tag.  Everybody wants to be a guru, and get you to buy their guru-products.   roll   Run!  Run like the wind!   big_smile

Anyway, cool list, can't wait to see the write up if you post it somewhere on NR....

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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