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Noble Realms → General Discussion → Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information
I could not believe the part of the Alex J interview, where Ann goes into a tirade repeating her nonsensical programmed verbage... TWICE over!! I was like... wtf? Hi shadow. lol I think it caught Alex off guard too... he almost felt bad for her at that point. It's like a kid holding their breath shopping with their mom in Safeway... embarrassing for anyone involved.
Okay, here's a partial recap of the many ideas put forth so far. Thanks to everybody who's contributed.
I'm thinking of compiling this all into an article.
Some Possible Signs of Spiritual Mis- or Disinformation:
*logical fallacies (http://www.fallacyfiles.org/)
*the discovery of false information within a body of truths
*consistently extreme POV
*namedropping
*overkill of special names, titles or credentials
*verbosity without substance
*vagueness
*irrelevant trivia
*impossible-to-verify details
*backpedaling by the presenters whenever inconsistencies are noticed
*suggestions that the informees are among a special elite
*obligating or commanding verbiage
*lack of organization
*the information is organized strangely, as with an all-center aligned webpage
*“crazy eyes"
*fakeness in the presenters’ voices or body language
*labeling, especially of others
*an abundance of special and unclear terminology
*emotionalization
*broad simplicity, especially in the midst of an issue with many factors
*slogans
*presenters who cannot calmly debate
*presenters who react to criticism with indignance instead of countering with new information
*insistence that the information is only verifiable through feeling or prayer
...The last one I thought of today. It occured to me because I've been discussing recently the Mormon church's method of verification. Whenever Mormon missionaries experience resistance from a convert, the convert is asked to "earnestly pray." If the convert prays in earnest, then the (Mormon) truth will be revealed to them through a "burning bosom" or other feeling. If they don't experience the feeling, of course, they weren't praying in earnest.
The same formula is applied to members who are thinking of leaving.
Although the LDS church is (supposedly) conducting archeological research that will hopefully corroborate "The Book of Mormon," they continue to insist that the truth--that 1) the LDS church is only true church; 2) Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God; 3) the "Book of Mormon" is the only totally true scripture--is only verifiable through prayer. The mind cannot be trusted, only the heart. (?)
Dreamosis, nice summary. Maybe you should add “¾usage of suggestive rhetoric questions". I stumbled onto that because of an excerpt of a Kryon-channeling posted in another thread. It really is a goldmine of disinformative tactics, in my opinion.
http://www.kryon.com/k_chanelstaugustine06.html
Kryon fans, please bear with me.
There are so many at this moment who have come prepared - have come ready. Wouldn't you like to move to the next level? Wouldn't you like to know more about the divine master inside you? Wouldn't you like to know who you used to be, who you are, and who you'll be when you're finished with this expression of humanism? All of that information is available. Did you know that? This is a precious place that is sweet beyond measure….[snip]
What if the darkest of the dark on this planet, the most evil you can imagine, the supernatural occult... was Human generated and sustained? No devil, no Satan, just you. Would that bother you?
Suggestive questions are a means to direct the listeners ways of thought to a direction the speaker wants. It does not broaden perception but narrows it. Infringement upon free will ultimately.
2. re-framing something repelling that it sounds nice but still is no lie. An example:
] Greetings, dear ones, I am Kryon of Magnetic Service. [snip]
And now, perhaps you understand why I am the magnetic master? It took 12 years to prepare the magnetic grid. Now you know what we were preparing it for.[snip]
In an esoteric way, but one that involves the interdimensional attributes of magnetics, we've prepared your planetary grid for the masters to come back, to begin the tool kit you will need to proceed.
Now, this one was really creepy. We have two spiritual “polarities" . Electric and magnetic – the electric polarity radiates while the magnetic seeks to attract/suck in. Spiritual magnetism therefore is negative or STS. But negative sounds of course far more repelling than “Magnetic Service" . So it was nicely managed to avoid lying and still endear the reader.
There is an assumption that all divine things are separate from Human Beings. This assumption actually makes good sense, for it follows three-dimensional thinking. It's logical.
I don’t know how to sum that strategy up, but it tries to lead the reader to the conclusion that logic generally is no applicable means to handle hyperdimensional principles or esoteric. It simply connects the failure of three-dimensional thinking in trying to grasp metaphysical planes with logic in general.
I don’t know how to sum that strategy up, but it tries to lead the reader to the conclusion that logic generally is no applicable means to handle hyperdimensional principles or esoteric. It simply connects the failure of three-dimensional thinking in trying to grasp metaphysical planes with logic in general.
That's interesting. I have not read any considerable amount of the Kryon info, so I do not really have a feel for the context.
I do believe that logic can only take you so far. More correctly, I would say that logic only operates within a particular range of frequencies. However, this is not to say that other frequencies are *not* logical, simply that the application of logic in those realms does not yield any new information.
I think that there is indeed a possible difference between 3d-logic and hyperdimensional logic. But it is logic nevertheless. Logic means to me, the recognition of a given framework of principles that determine reality or better, a structure of thinking that is in accordance with "provable" reality. If higher densities have defined principles at work, there must exist a logic that is able to be applied – at least it think so, from the point of view of my 3d-logic 
Hyperdimensional logic might be completely different from what we accept now as logic – paradoxes for instance - just as idea.
I think the topic would make a fine new thread.
I’ve done some more research on Kryon. Here’s another red flag waving:
There is a quantum connection between you and the Israelis, and you and the Palestinians. If you choose to understand and use this connection, you can send light to them so that, indeed, they will see their purpose on Earth and make the adjustments that are needed. We have foreseen things in the Middle East that will fly in the face of logic - even the logic of the protocol of their lineage. How will they accomplish this? Light from you! Can you do that? Send light there and watch the shifts occur. Pick up this tool kit and begin the personal shift right where you sit.
Free will, anyone?
The whole text can be found here: http://www.kryon.com/k_chanellongmont06.html
I've been a long-time fan of Joseph Campbell, the mythologist. In his book, The Hero with a Thousand Faces he devotes a chapter to the theme of the hero becoming a "Master of the Two Worlds."
Mastering the Two Worlds can be seen in myth-charged movies like "The Matrix," wherein Neo first becomes a master of the Matrix virtual reality world and then gains the same power in the real world.
Or even in a kid's movie like "The Neverending Story" wherein the kid, after returning from his journey, stands up to the bullies with the help of the Luck Dragon.
One interpretation I have of the "two worlds" is that one world is the world of logic and linearity and the second world (the other side) is the world of non-linearity and intuition.
I believe this theme of mastering the two worlds is too pervasive to ignore, and yet many spiritual systems totally discount logic and ego as evil illusion and advocate eradicating them.
One obvious mark of people who follow the path of egoicide is that they lose the ability to function in this world. And, unless survival is completely effortless for them (as in the case of being a guru with lots of followers) the effect of dismantling their 3D logical mind, in my perception, is usually more stressful than less.
*“crazy eyes"
Ahh, you don't have to include that one. Many would think it was rather subjective anyway. I take note of physical things about people when talking to them, looking at photos of them or listening to their voice over a phone, but again, it's one of those subjective things that many would say doesn't prove anything. It borders on the realm of "intuition." It's like, Hmm.....my intuition is telling me that something isn't right with this person's eyes and expression....they have this weird, crazed smile going on.....but ultimately, a sign of disinfo would lie in everything else that you mentioned on your list. And that's a great list, btw. You've compiled some very useful observations.
It really is its own topic when you think about it - reading people. Analyzing the way they talk, their facial expressions, eyes, body language, mannerisms, and how they conduct themselves and interact with others. Crazy eyes would probably be better suited for that category, the "visual cues for reading people."
I just want to add a thought, based on my own experiences. I was dealing with a channelled entity on a one-on-one basis and got a lot of what was later revealed to be dis-information. Looking back on the experience there were several obvious things that I should have noticed, but was too naive to realize at the time.
First, the entity came through a real worthless person, as in a real parasite.
Second, it was real vague about it's name, origion and dimension of reality and so forth.
Third, played up to my ego and my other weaknesses, as in predictions about my dreams coming true with no real effort on my part and so forth.
Lastly, hinting that I should make certain business moves that were obviously not in my best interests.
Hope this helps
WizardT
"Crazy eyes" fits best under intuition, I agree, and it could be subjective...but it's too prominent to ignore! 
It is a real phenomenon.
I showed a friend a picture of Suze Orman from amazon.com after the "crazy eyes" posts and asked my friend, "What do you think of her?" without telling him about the posts or frontloading him in any way. After a nanosecond he replied, "She's crazy."
But it is subjective. Truly effective propagandists, or disinfo artists, probably carefully control their tone of voice and body language--always make eye contact, gesture firmly, don't sway, are prepared. (Stuff they teach you in a beginning public speaking class).
Remember that scene in "V for Vendetta" though when Evie knows the reporter's lying? Because she blinks when she lies?
Likely there's small stuff like that one can watch for, and then, with the really good spindoctors intuition (and research) is necessary.
"Fakeness in the presenter's voice or body language" is probably subjective, too. Nonetheless, even in a critical frame of mind (as opposed to being in an intuitional mode), it's difficult to miss. Granted, by observing the motions of the body alone it's hard to know if somebody's inauthentic or simply nervous.
In my experience, nervousness translates into extraneous, jerky motion; fakeness translates into extraneous, unmotivated super-fluid motion.
But, of course, a person who knows those patterns could correct them.
First, the entity came through a real worthless person, as in a real parasite.
Second, it was real vague about it's name, origion and dimension of reality and so forth.
Third, played up to my ego and my other weaknesses, as in predictions about my dreams coming true with no real effort on my part and so forth.
Thanks, Wizard T, for the input. It does help.
..."Consider the source" I think is a great guiding rule when it comes to discerning whether info is good or not. That suggestion appears in the government's guide to misinfo in the first post in this thread. ("Is the source trustworthy?")
I suppose it's possible that a highly evolved entity might speak through a parasitic bum guy, but I think like generally attracts like.
The vagueness about name and origin is very suspect to me. In ordinary life, would you take advice from some dude who just showed up making major, life-altering suggestions to you?
And the playing up to ego thing is...I'm of two minds about it. On the one hand, I think truly positive beings will help you by validating you. But they won't go kid-gloves on you if you're seriously mucking something up. They'll tell you straight. But they won't enumerate all your failings and leave you a bloody mental pulp. On the other hand, positive higher beings I think definitely won't let you get away with magical thinking or thinking that there's nothing for you to do but kick back and enjoy a margarita. I don't think the journey ever ends. (Until it ends, maybe).
It really is its own topic when you think about it - reading people. Analyzing the way they talk, their facial expressions, eyes, body language, mannerisms, and how they conduct themselves and interact with others. Crazy eyes would probably be better suited for that category, the "visual cues for reading people."
I think you've got a very good point. There's a lot out there which says that you can't judge a person by what's on the outside, and I definitely agree there are too many judgements being made on appearance these days. Yet to somebody who truly practices the art of discernment, it can't be ignored that physical appearances are, after all, a reflection of what is on the inside. .
But it is subjective. Truly effective propagandists, or disinfo artists, probably carefully control their tone of voice and body language--always make eye contact, gesture firmly, don't sway, are prepared. (Stuff they teach you in a beginning public speaking class). Remember that scene in "V for Vendetta" though when Evie knows the reporter's lying? Because she blinks when she lies? Likely there's small stuff like that one can watch for, and then, with the really good spindoctors intuition (and research) is necessary.
"Fakeness in the presenter's voice or body language" is probably subjective, too. Nonetheless, even in a critical frame of mind (as opposed to being in an intuitional mode), it's difficult to miss. Granted, by observing the motions of the body alone it's hard to know if somebody's inauthentic or simply nervous.
This could make an interesting side topic. I know that I'm really good at reading people in person and even over the 'net, to the point where I've "joked" that it feels like I've actually received formal training for how to do this. I haven't, (at least, that I'm aware of!) but I'll nail stuff about people that's so specific, straight off the bat, and it will take others around me a very long time to catch up and figure it out on their own. It could be a useful thing for perceptive people to pool together the things they've noticed that correlate to what.
For instance...and I hate to keep mentioning this last temp job I had at the church, but since I'm finally done with it it's like, Okay, now I can talk about it, haha but yeah, at my last temp job, I became like "hmmmm....." regarding the head Deacon dude on our very first meeting, and by the second I was totally leary and involuntarily pulled back from him. What was it that he did that I took note of...that others may not have noticed, for whatever reason? For starters, he came over to me and gave me boisterous pats on the back/shoulders....twice....during the first 15 minutes I met him. And he spoke in such a way that it was almost like he was feigning hyper friendliness, like trying way too hard to be this super friendly exhuberent likeable guy. It just seemed...fake in some way, yet, it was so subtle that I know MOST people would not see it. In fact most people would think, "Oh, what a nice guy! I like him!" because he did seem like this nice, friendly, older guy. (He's in his late 50s with white hair.) And meanwhile, I sound the total biaaatch going "Hmm, there's something wrong and off about him. I don't trust him." oh well. A lot of the times the reason people get tricked and fooled by others lies in the subtly of it all. They're looking or expecting all out sociopathic serial killer madmen or something, and so miss these weird, oh so subtle quirks of human nature. In too many cases, all somebody has to do is.....act nice. And people will think, Oh, they're so nice! 
It's too easy, unfortunately.
Come to find out that Mr. Super Friendly, Desperate to Make You Like Him deacon dude used to be a cop. And he had a hot temper. Don't cross him. He was friendly and boisterous.....so long as people agreed with him. Heard stories about that, and I did glimpse the dark side myself poking through a few times. His mannerisms though were all an act. He was a cop, and he'd of course "learned" what worked with people to make them relax and get into an open, trusting mode.
Not with me. I completely shut him out. I saw through it by the second meeting, then later found out he'd been a cop and it all just clicked. All that boisterous laughing personality and boisterous back/shoulder patting was just him playing "good cop." He would also ask you stuff multiple times, even cut you off in mid sentence to go back to something you finished talking about five, ten minutes before and just...ask it again, in a slightly different way.......That's total cop behavior. He'd get an intense look on his face and this weird look in his eye, staring intently at me as he'd ask the question again. Then immediately after I'd answer it....YET AGAIN....his face would immediately soften, his eyes would glaze over and he'd shift personalities, becoming light and soft and innocent and dopey and "sweet" again....then five minutes later get that intense look again and ask the question YET AGAIN. I mean, fricking freak job. Hello. But I could tell by the second time...something was weird here. Get away from me!!
There's so much more I could say about this, (side note: He ended up being a bit of a creepo, so my initial creeped out impression of him was spot on........soon after I started working there, he tried very intensely to get me to go to lunch with him one day, and was not taking NO for an answer; I was firm, and had to tell him no seriously, like five or six times, explaining that I bring my own lunch, but thaaaanks....Then he insisted that he "needed" my home phone number....you know, just in case some emergency or something happened, cough, yeah.....and then twice he came in acting all cutesy and sweet with me - keep in mind he doesn't even know me, or I him, and wanted cutesy "hugs" from me, "Aww come here, give me a hug...!" Ew. Get away. Then after I decided not to take the job permanently.......he was solely 90% of the deciding factor!!!!......he would incessantly work it into every conversation (making the sweet, sad, pouty little boys face) that he was going to miss me sooo much. He would even interrupt stuff he was saying and interject that out of nowhere!!! Like, "Today we visited so-and-so, and she.......why do you have to gooo? I'm going to miss you....." EWWWWWWWWW. And he was married. AND a Deacon. !! So talk about bizarro.)
So yes, I think it could make a great side spin off topic or something. People need to learn how to read people better. I've seen too many people get taken for a ride either in person, or over the 'net. It could be useful info!
From:
http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=3089
Personally, I couldn't care less if the info comes from a Book, a Groundhog or a Psychic reading the leavings on used toilet paper:
If it Rings with Head and Heart.......
And he was married. AND a Deacon. !! So talk about bizarro.)
What a freakazoid! I kind of wish I were more surprised to hear about this kind of behavior coming from a married church deacon.
I've noticed a lot of this kind of behavior as well. It's almost like the people themselves don't even remember how they were behaving five minutes before. Their demeanor bops around between different roles that they play and they appear to have little or no authenticity of their own.
The thing that's really creepy to me is that they don't even realize that somebody else may see through their act. I don't know if it's because they are so caught up in it, or if so many people fall for it that they think they are impervious to detection.
More and more I get the urge to just calmly look one of these people in the eyes and say, "You know you're behaving like a complete nutjob, right?" Just to see what they'd say. . .
This could make an interesting side topic.
I'm going to start a new thread in General Discussions: "Reading People."
He would even interrupt stuff he was saying and interject that out of nowhere!!! Like, "Today we visited so-and-so, and she.......why do you have to gooo? I'm going to miss you....." EWWWWWWWWW.
I can totally picture that...Gross. I think people who have secret feelings (like lust) find ways to publicly communicate them in order to relieve the mental pressure, like through super-friendliness. But for anyone who is awake, the real feelings are obvious.
Noble Realms → General Discussion → Red Flags of Mis or Dis-information
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