1 Topic by Human Being

  • Human Being
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Topic: Limbo's status now in limbo - Poles too?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051130/od_nm/pope_limbo_dc

Limbo -- the place where the Catholic Church teaches that babies go if they die before being baptized -- may have its days numbered.

According to Italian media reports on Tuesday, an international theological commission will advise Pope Benedict to eliminate the teaching about limbo from the Catholic catechism.

The Catholic Church teaches that babies who die before they can be baptized go to limbo, whose name comes from the Latin for "border" or "edge," because they deserve neither heaven nor hell.

Last October, seven months before he died, Pope John Paul asked the commission to come up with "a more coherent and enlightened way" of describing the fate of such innocents.

It was then headed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who was elected Pope in April. It is now headed by his successor at the Vatican's doctrinal department, Archbishop William Levada, an American from San Francisco.

The commission, which has been meeting behind closed doors, may make its recommendation soon.

In his Divine Comedy, Dante passes limbo on his way into hell and writes: "Great grief seized on my own heart when this I heard, because some people of much worthiness I knew, who in limbo were suspended."

HMMMM...

Theologically, this is big. Symbolically, this is really big.
The fate of Earth itself *may* no longer be "in limbo"...

Suggested is the potentiality that regarding future events on or near this planet,
there's now no more inaccuracy - it is known whether something will or will not.

However:
The fate of the party game in which people take turns *dancing under a pole* -
not at issue here unless you understand what else the above phrase applies to!

  • Registered: 2005-12-01

Re: Limbo's status now in limbo - Poles too?

I used to love that party game.

I wouldn't dare now.





Isn't it great news for all those babies that have been hanging around limbo land for the last 1700 years or so. 

The ones going to heaven, now, are going "Ah Great !   Finally !"

... the ones on their way to hell are probably seeking litigation.

google's Website

3 Reply by whywhywhy (edited by whywhywhy 2005-12-02 12:59:01)

  • From: LA
  • Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: Limbo's status now in limbo - Poles too?

Even when I was a kid going to catechism the thought of LIMBO just did not click.  I wonder what Archbishop William Levada will come up with.

Next on the list----------------------Purgatory (the other catholic souls black hole)

Purgatory (Lat., "purgare", to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.

Regards

[edit]

P.S.

Human Being said

Start quote
However:
The fate of the party game in which people take turns *dancing under a pole* -
not at issue here unless you understand what else the above phrase applies to!
End quote

hmmm ...... dancing under a pole----->polish------->Poland--------->Pope John Paul II

  • Registered: 2005-12-01

Re: Limbo's status now in limbo - Poles too?

There may be a grain of truth in that but the Catholic Church has lost my confidence in their judgment.

google's Website

5 Reply by Human Being (edited by Human Being 2005-12-02 14:03:42)

  • Human Being
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Re: Limbo's status now in limbo - Poles too?

whywhywhy, great connection, but:

More than one way to skin that cat;

What if the pole was Earth's axis?!?

What would be doing the 'dancing'?

6 Reply by whywhywhy (edited by whywhywhy 2005-12-02 14:30:36)

  • From: LA
  • Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: Limbo's status now in limbo - Poles too?

Human Being wrote:

whywhywhy, great connection, but:

More than one way to skin that cat;

What if the pole was Earth's axis?!?

What would be doing the 'dancing'?

Let's see..........The Earth axis, what dances or goes around the Axis?  The first thing that comes to my mind is the Moon.  What do you have in mind?  I feel like I am taking a quiz but I am enjoying it........Good Lord I must be a Masochist!

Other answers could be:
1. The magnetic field for it moves or dances assymetrically around the axis
2. People since gravity keeps us attached to the planet we turn and turn around the axis (no choice as the 
    physical World goes)

7 Reply by impatiens

  • impatiens
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Re: Limbo's status now in limbo - Poles too?

Hey, let's not forget "pole" dancers lol

I learned in Catholic school that limbo and purgatory were synonymous. fwiw

Speaking of poles and purging, I just noticed that certain (entire) posts have been purged/deleted, just noticed that in the 'pole shift' thread. Without explanation.

Why is that? This is the third time I've booked it this month btw (also in the grey aliens and the jkl threads before); so is this a regular happening on NR, a coincidence or some loony glitch?

8 Reply by Human Being (edited by Human Being 2005-12-02 19:38:18)

  • Human Being
  • Guest

Re: Limbo's status now in limbo - Poles too?

impatiens,

Don't sweat the missing posts. Some were by me, and weren't largely contributing
to a positive flow in the discussion(s). Others got caught up in my wake, but it was
necessary to save the lives of those threads. That's me paraphrasing what I know.
___

whywhywhy,

Here's where I show my "true" colors, so to speak. Hey impatiens, glad you didn't
tell my story, heh. But anyway, I'm pretty much an "Earth Changes" believer...:)

I think the possibilities for the future of Earth include celestial and terrestrial intruders.
However, I am NOT of the opinion that an "extinction level event" is a possibility. Nope!!
But yes, I do think that symbolically, and perhaps scientifically, a case can be made for
locally/regionally significant impact events in Earth's future. I shouldn't go into that here
but I will put something together for the Pole Shift Happens thread. Yet, one thing that I
must mention now, because it's the association *I* make with "dancing under a pole" is
Nibiru.

  • From: LA
  • Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: Limbo's status now in limbo - Poles too?

impatiens wrote:

I learned in Catholic school that limbo and purgatory were synonymous. fwiw

Impatients,

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

    Limbo
Catholic Encyclopedia on CD-ROM
Contains 11,632 articles. Browse off-line, ad-free, printer-friendly.
Get it here for only $29.95

(Late Lat. limbus) a word of Teutonic derivation, meaning literally "hem" or "border," as of a garment, or anything joined on (cf. Italian lembo or English limb).
In theological usage the name is applied to (a) the temporary place or state of the souls of the just who, although purified from sin, were excluded from the beatific vision until Christ's triumphant ascension into Heaven (the "limbus patrum"); or (b) to the permanent place or state of those unbaptized children and others who, dying without grievous personal sin, are excluded from the beatific vision on account of original sin alone (the "limbus infantium" or "puerorum").
:
:
:
:
It is principally on the strength of these Scriptural texts, harmonized with the general doctrine of the Fall and Redemption of mankind, that Catholic tradition has defended the existence of the limbus patrum as a temporary state or place of happiness distinct from Purgatory.

Purgatory
Catholic Encyclopedia on CD-ROM
Contains 11,632 articles. Browse off-line, ad-free, printer-friendly.
Get it here for only $29.95

The subject is treated under these heads:
I. Catholic Doctrine
II. Errors
III. Proofs
IV. Duration and Nature
V. Succouring the Dead
VI. Indulgences
VII. Invocation of Souls
VIII. Utility of Prayer for the Departed
I. CATHOLIC DOCTRINE
Purgatory (Lat., "purgare", to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.


There is a difference between the two.  Limbo will hold souls that although without sin (such as an unbaptized child) are excluded from the beatific vision (The immediate knowledge of God).  Purgatory is a temporary “jail”  for those who are not free of venial sins.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia
Venial Sins
All sins are not equal before God, nor dare anyone assert that the daily faults of human frailty will be punished with the same severity that is meted out to serious violation of God's law. On the other hand whosoever comes into God's presence must be perfectly pure for in the strictest sense His "eyes are too pure, to behold evil" (Habakkuk 1:13). For unrepented venial faults for the payment of temporal punishment due to sin at time of death, the Church has always taught the doctrine of purgatory.

10 Reply by whywhywhy (edited by whywhywhy 2005-12-03 06:51:53)

  • From: LA
  • Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: Limbo's status now in limbo - Poles too?

Human Being wrote:

Yet, one thing that I
must mention now, because it's the association *I* make with "dancing under a pole" is
Nibiru.

HB,

What part of the "NIBIRU" definition are you referring to?  The 10th Planet?

I have read all Sitchin's books (some of them twice) and enjoyed them.  Yet, I believe that some of Mr. Sitchin's extrapolations/assumptions used  to arrive to a specific concept/idea/interpretation are very thin.  For example:  I have trouble believing that the "Enuma Elish" is the description of a planetary/celestial event.  But, for the sake of the argument let us assume that "NIBIRU" is the real thing.  The appearance of this planet into our neighborhood must be getting pretty close.   The approach of a planet of that size will cause significant physical changes on Earth  to go unnoticed.  It then seems the last time NIBIRU "danced" around the pole occured around 1500-2100 BC.  This sort of coincides with Abraham, Sodom & Gomorrah, the destruction of Summer, the rise of Babylonia and perhaps the coronation of Marduk.  If this is correct it would put NIBIRU in the horizon somewhere within 100 years or less.  Why is it that it has not been detected or discovered by scientists/astronomers in Earth?

Regards

11 Reply by impatiens

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  • Guest

Re: Limbo's status now in limbo - Poles too?

whywhywhy wrote:
impatiens wrote:

I learned in Catholic school that limbo and purgatory were synonymous. fwiw

Impatients,

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

  Limbo
Catholic Encyclopedia on CD-ROM
Contains 11,632 articles. Browse off-line, ad-free, printer-friendly.
Get it here for only $29.95

(Late Lat. limbus) a word of Teutonic derivation, meaning literally "hem" or "border," as of a garment, or anything joined on (cf. Italian lembo or English limb).
In theological usage the name is applied to (a) the temporary place or state of the souls of the just who, although purified from sin, were excluded from the beatific
vision until Christ's triumphant ascension into Heaven (the "limbus patrum"); or (b) to the permanent place or state of those unbaptized children and others who,
dying without grievous personal sin, are excluded from the beatific vision on account of original sin alone (the "limbus infantium" or "puerorum").
:
:
:
:
It is principally on the strength of these Scriptural texts, harmonized with the general doctrine of the Fall and Redemption of mankind, that Catholic tradition has
defended the existence of the limbus patrum as a temporary state or place of happiness distinct from Purgatory.

Purgatory
Catholic Encyclopedia on CD-ROM
Contains 11,632 articles. Browse off-line, ad-free, printer-friendly.
Get it here for only $29.95

The subject is treated under these heads:
I. Catholic Doctrine
II. Errors
III. Proofs
IV. Duration and Nature
V. Succouring the Dead
VI. Indulgences
VII. Invocation of Souls
VIII. Utility of Prayer for the Departed
I. CATHOLIC DOCTRINE
Purgatory (Lat., "purgare", to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing
this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.


There is a difference between the two.  Limbo will hold souls that although without sin (such as an unbaptized child) are excluded from the beatific vision (The
immediate knowledge of God).  Purgatory is a temporary “jail”  for those who are not free of venial sins.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia
Venial Sins
All sins are not equal before God, nor dare anyone assert that the daily faults of human frailty will be punished with the same severity that is meted out to serious
violation of God's law. On the other hand whosoever comes into God's presence must be perfectly pure for in the strictest sense His "eyes are too pure, to behold
evil" (Habakkuk 1:13). For unrepented venial faults for the payment of temporal punishment due to sin at time of death, the Church has always taught the doctrine of
purgatory.

Why,
Thanks for that clarification. Makes sense. It's possible that I merged the two definitions in my memory; it's been a long time since I was Catholic wink  Btw, differences between venial and mortal sins are clear, an example of the former would be stealing, murder for the latter.
But those definitions actually make limbo sound worse than purgatory.

Particularly the differences in definition a and b of Limbo. Def a indicates that it's a temporary place/state. While def b indicates that it's permanent. Glaring contradictions, if u ask me.

Also from my understanding, unbaptized includes not only infants born into Catholic families and who die before this ritual is performed on them, but also all those of other beliefs or
faiths who haven't been baptized into the Catholic religion e.g. Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, basically everyone else on the planet.

Even as a child of 5 or 6 this never rang true for me, and when I foolishly but politely dared to ask the nuns about it (among other things wink  I or my questions were
routinely and summarily dismissed as being impertinent, impudent, irrelevant, wicked, etc.  a la "children should be seen but not heard"!  roll   

So while you say that purgatory is a temporary "jail" , it appears that  limbo is also permanent one for unbaptized "Catholic" infants, and millions/billions of others.

Far as I can see most, if not all religions regard themselves as "the chosen one". Any wonder I rejected "mine" at age 16, when I was able to; and have had no
interest in any exclusive clubs/religions since!

Btw, isn't it interesting to also notice how similar and similarly divisive "nationalism" or fanatic patriotism is to religion(s).

So back to that news item which HB posted:
"Limbo -- the place where the Catholic Church teaches that babies go if they die before being baptized -- may have its days numbered.

According to Italian media reports on Tuesday, an international theological commission will advise Pope Benedict to eliminate the teaching about limbo from the
Catholic catechism."

If so, this appears to be a good start, long overdue imo; as well as an enormous shift, theologically and symbolically.

  • From: LA
  • Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: Limbo's status now in limbo - Poles too?

impatiens wrote:

So while you say that purgatory is a temporary "jail" , it appears that  limbo is also permanent one for unbaptized "Catholic" infants, and millions/billions of others.

Yes.  What a horrible concept (Limbo ....that is)!  Sometimes I wonder how in the world this concept lasted all the way to the 21st century.

impatiens wrote:

Btw, isn't it interesting to also notice how similar and similarly divisive "nationalism" or fanatic patriotism is to religion(s).

Yes.  If you take the words "God" or "Jesus" from any preacher's mouth and replace it with USA, France or whatever it will fit just perfectly.

impatiens wrote:

So back to that news item which HB posted:
"Limbo -- the place where the Catholic Church teaches that babies go if they die before being baptized -- may have its days numbered.

According to Italian media reports on Tuesday, an international theological commission will advise Pope Benedict to eliminate the teaching about limbo from the
Catholic catechism."

If so, this appears to be a good start, long overdue imo; as well as an enormous shift, theologically and symbolically.

The Catholic Church has many skeletons in their closet.  One by one they are going to have to face them.

     * The selection of the New Testament Books in the 4th Century
     * Purgatory
     * Inquisition
     * The Cathars
     * The Shroud

To mention a few.