• Registered: 2005-08-18

Topic: S/F & Fantasy Pre-occupations

One of the startling phenomenons of modern times is the rapidly growing preoccupation with the S/F - Fantasy genre whether it be movies, books, TV programmes, forums etc., as though fewer and fewer of us are able to face mere mudane everyday existance. What I personally find scary is that everyone takes it all so god-damn seriously. People are not interested in simply being entertained by such stories but have this compulsion to become involved themselves through making up their own fantasies which they expect others to treat as being possibly actual and true.

Many of the propositions being put forward are absolutely fantastic and incredibly absorbing. As humans we surely need to wake up to the obvious fact that we have been bred to be gullible and tolerant and that these traits, far from being praiseworhty, are our archillies heel.

Tell me please, somebody, why do we all put up with so much utter bullshit thrown at us from every quarter, relentlessly, particularly when we know it is bullshit. Isn't it all designed to steer us away from the reality of our precarious situation?

The way I see it S/F - Fantasy preoccupation is merely a substitute for escapism through drugs or other means. It is just another way of closing our eyes from the reality of human existance.

2 Reply by transient (edited by CortexVortex 2005-11-30 20:02:17)

  • From: the mine
  • Registered: 2005-11-15

Re: S/F & Fantasy Pre-occupations

Eagle Red, I couldn't agree more. The only point I might dispute is how much of this people bring on themselves versus the hypnotic nature of the TV itself. I think the effect of the medium  may be understated. I personally am on an internet terminal and use my TV for a monitor. Only. (I hear ya all snickering BTW- got dsl tho so not bad- also immune to alot of bs, including hacks)

Anyway there is an article by John Kaminski right now called "Cultural Wormhole that is very relevant to this thread- maybe someone could provide a link..apologies.

Also I must say, in the last few years I can't watch a movie w/out feeling drained somehow, literally like it's sucking the life out of me. I won't rule out subliminal trickery there, but honestly very few movies spark my interest anymore.

I gave up cable TV years ago, when I realized the damn thing WAS taking me over. 155 channels of poison.

I know it's only gotten worse in the last 5 yrs.

And yes- the escapism factor is a large part of the addiction.
No doubt TPTB are fully aware what a powerful tool they have as far as deception AND distraction. And ever larger screens- soon to be fully wall-size. Yeah..... you know.

About strictly the S/F aspect- I can't really comment on that as I find most plots and themes have been run right into the ground. I do have trouble understanding the appeal.
Ditto that regarding the gaming/role playing forums- I got nothin'.

"I hate dreaming. because when you want to sleep, you want to sleep. Dreaming is work. Next thing you know I have to build a go-kart with my ex landlord"
-The late Mitch Hedberg

3 Reply by Human Being

  • Human Being
  • Guest

Re: S/F & Fantasy Pre-occupations

Ancient myths are the SF and Fantasy "entertainment" of the earliest civilizations.
For the people of those times, it was also "escapism" - but toward life, not from it.
Before written word, spoken word dominated. But even once written word arrived,
myth was probably *the* way to "educate" one's offspring. No, not all stories were
meant to teach - some were "purely" for entertainment. We'd be naive to think the
basis for at least *some* of the stories, were the observations and experiences of
human beings. However, the "facts" often become encoded into what seems to us
to be some "figment of the imagination". Well, that's *exactly* what they were to
a human being at that "level" in its advancement: gods, monsters, nature itself!!

I used quotation marks around the word "entertainment" in my opening because
describing SF and Fantasy, be they today's or the ancients', merely as such, risks
missing out on all the other things they also are. Ever seen "K-Pax"? It is far more
than entertainment, that much I know. Yeah, some people won't like it or won't get
the deeper aspects, but if you do, you will agree with me. See, today's media is the
most pervasive it has ever been. There's so much to choose from, of course it may
be because so many people are in it for the money and thus produce inferior stuff.
But many of today's best known SF/Fantasy productions often have a "more than
just entertainment" thing going on. In summary, I disagree with you Red Eagle.

  • From: PA
  • Registered: 2005-10-21

Re: S/F & Fantasy Pre-occupations

not to be rude or disrespectful
but you sound like a complete di*k in almost every post human being

Ancient myths are the SF and Fantasy "entertainment" of the earliest civilizations.
For the people of those times, it was also "escapism"


how would you know if it was escapism for ancient cultures?
unless your thousands of years old

Aughra: Where is he?
Jen: He's dead.
Aughra: Could be anywhere, then.

Aughra: End, begin, all the same. Big change. Sometimes good. Sometimes bad.

"the dark crystal"

5 Reply by Human Being (edited by Human Being 2005-12-01 06:40:00)

  • Human Being
  • Guest

Re: S/F & Fantasy Pre-occupations

Excuse me, but I thought I was being courteous and non-aggressive in my post.
I understand that some (perhaps many) don't like my style, or my "attitude". :(
But in my above post, I attempted to explain why I disagreed with him, instead
of just being terse and potentially ambiguous. Sorry I rub you the wrong way!!!

"Escapism" as it applies to ancient civilizations, in my mind, entails the desire to
be "free" from *unknowing*. As the people of those times in history learned the
stuff they never knew before, they wanted to ensure that future generations did
as well. They were escaping "ignorance" of their existence and experiences, the
very thing that seemed to hold back others of their time. Knowledge is power...

Today's civilizations are far more advanced. We already have much information
about our existence and experiences because we've been able to, as a species,
continually build upon those of our ancestors. Thus, escapism today is not about
being free from unknowing in the traditional sense, as it applied to the ancients;
it results from one's desire to feel *less* like they ARE unknowing - instead of a
desire to learn more it's a desire to *care* less about learning in the first place!

Just how I think things were. And I don't have to be 5000 years old to "know"...

6 Reply by impatiens (edited by impatiens 2005-12-01 16:52:29)

  • impatiens
  • Guest

Re: S/F & Fantasy Pre-occupations

Human Being wrote:

Today's civilizations are far more advanced.

Ah HB, I dunno' about that. What about the pyramids, as but one example? Can we replicate them? Do we even know with certainty how they were built?

Btw, I've long held this theory, that we often fancy we're advanced cuz we have so much high-technology, so many funky tools, widgets, gadgets, gizmos... not to mention all the horrific genocidal weaponry (at the touch of a button) we've come to build; but for all this technological wizardry and more, are we any more advanced than the "mythological" Atlanteans? Are we also any more civilized, less savage or cruel today, than during say the latter day Crusades; and are we truly more knowledgeable? I don't think so.

Long before the internet was public, I used to read the papers, and shudder at the misery, savagery, cruelty... of human beings, us, whether near or far. And I would also shudder at how genocidal, suicidal, self-destructive we can be, in spite of our wealth of knowledge, technological and otherwise. And what I concluded then was that we are a corrupted race, we humans. We are like lost, errant children in many ways.

Now millions of us also have near-instant access to info from around the globe and via this net we can communicate with people we'd otherwise never meet or talk to, which is interesting and can be fun in and of itself,  but in the longer view, the broad picture is often really depressing, frightening, and tragic. And while we spend hours a day on this web, do we even know our neighbours, or care at all to know them? Virtual communities as paltry substitutes for actual ones? So much info, and still so little wisdom? All "touch" but no "contact"?

We also have the capacity to do wondrous, incredibly beautiful, loving, and amazingly creative things (many of them without any or much technology at all, btw) and in that lies my hope, faith for humanity. But on my worst days I shudder and my faith wavers. C'est la vie...

So, saying that we modern humans are far more advanced than all others that have come and gone before us, well that just strikes me as a little too zealous, over-enthusiastic?, short-sighted, and possibly naive.

Take care, amj

P.S. Don't anyone ask me how "old" I am. I'd have to do some cipherin', and that aint my strongest suit big_smile  Let's just say that I'm "ageless" and we'll get along just fine  tongue

  • Registered: 2005-11-26

Re: S/F & Fantasy Pre-occupations

human being is my favourtie poster, second comes emt doc, after that it has to be whywhywhy.

  • From: istanbul
  • Registered: 2004-05-13

Re: S/F & Fantasy Pre-occupations

Unlike CortexVortex, I couldn't disagree more!

I strongly believe that the "ancients" we know, we think we know and the ones which we don't even have a clue about were much more interesting & wild civilisations than we imagine. Therefore, I see SF and fantasy as great and valuable practices of mind/imagination to reach them. And so are myths.


By the way HB, your first post has nearly perfect visual symmetry with 9 lines in each pharagraph. 9+9 = 18,which is 1+8=9 again. Is this a code? big_smile

feritciva, the ultimate code-breaker who deals with SF a lot to lose his contact with "real" life

Change we must, to live again
- Jon Anderson

9 Reply by impatiens

  • impatiens
  • Guest

Re: S/F & Fantasy Pre-occupations

feritciva wrote:

By the way HB, your first post has nearly perfect visual symmetry with 9 lines in each pharagraph. 9+9 = 18,which is 1+8=9 again. Is this a code? big_smile

ferit, aren't you the clever little primate big_smile

that just might be yet another example of "intelligent design", or is it some creative or synchronistic design by an intelligent being? Hard for me to say, but I do know there are some very smart chimps among us smile


btw,
we're all primates, right. that was correct, last time i checked, so hard to keep up tho.

on the initial post, I enjoy and learn some worthwhile stuff from some sf & f. Don't have too many obsessions that I'm aware of, or that I'll publicly admit to tongue

Frankenstein, and Stranger in a Strange Land are two of my big sf&f favs. and who was it who said that all of this "our reality" is but a dream, illusion, fantasy? as I recollect, twas lots of smart people, err primates who said that.

And speaking of wild, ok ferit, let's not even go there, if you could see my hair right now, you'd understand yikes

take care All,

  • Registered: 2005-10-10

Re: S/F & Fantasy Pre-occupations

Eagle Red wrote:

The way I see it S/F - Fantasy preoccupation is merely a substitute for escapism through drugs or other means. It is just another way of closing our eyes from the reality of human existance.

hmm... have to say i don't agree with that at all. The way i see it, most 'psi-phi' is a metaphorical expression of the contempory human condition. Every time i watch a good 'psi-phi' movie, it has a profound 'effect' on my consciousness, and normally pre-cedes a widening of my 'reality-tunnel'. In other words it 'opens my eyes' to a wider field of possibilities. This 'effect', in my view, is an integral aspect of the evolution of consciousness: We must prepare our conscious minds to be in tune with the quantum ocean of infinite possibilities. This is the 'key' to un-locking the secrets of 'reality-creation', which is [IMO] the most powerful tool available for the purpose of affecting change in the 'matrix'.....

Eagle Red wrote:

People are not interested in simply being entertained by such stories but have this compulsion to become involved themselves through making up their own fantasies which they expect others to treat as being possibly actual and true.

This is not necessary. It may well be resonant with your own perceptions, but i've actually never come across any good 'psi-phi' which forces me into such a narrow duality. In summation [IMO] rather than closing down possible 'options' or 'choices', 'psi-phi' opens up a wider field of possible outcomes. Or at least serves as a reminder that a desired collective human condition may be achievable. Whether this outcome is benificial is, of course up to your consciousness. Note also that i'm not saying 'psi-phi' is the 'answer' to all our problems. It is merely a revelatory aspect of that 'answer' if you 'choose' to percieve it that way.

'Namu-amida-butsu!'

11 Reply by Human Being (edited by Human Being 2005-12-02 09:12:25)

  • Human Being
  • Guest

Re: S/F & Fantasy Pre-occupations

Damn, Kahotep... That was beautiful.
And I really like the phrase "psi-phi":

psi = supernaturalism = psychology = wave function = pressure = intrinsical = planed = mode = angle
phi = the golden ratio = self-similar = compressable = potential = imaginary = sphere = phase = FLUX

(not trying to confuse, honestly - just showing depth)

Thanks for infusing your words with such meaning!!!!

  • Registered: 2005-10-10

Re: S/F & Fantasy Pre-occupations

psi = supernaturalism = psychology = wave function = pressure = intrinsical = planed = mode = angle
phi = the golden ratio = self-similar = compressable = potential = imaginary = sphere = phase = FLUX

(not trying to confuse, honestly - just showing depth)

not confusing at all; an insightful and comprehensive illustration of 'de-compression' into component parts.
Nicely done.

Glad to see you again HB. Thanx for being so perceptive.

'Namu-amida-butsu!'
  • From: Montana
  • Registered: 2004-12-27

Re: S/F & Fantasy Pre-occupations

My problem isn't with sci-fi per se, but with what passes for sci-fi.  I've only read/seen a few works that I'd consider to be worthwhile.  Not saying its not out there, I just haven't gone that way very much (STILL haven't read any Philip K. Dick, for example).  The crap that they put out for big budget movies, etc. isn't really science fiction but a rehashing of the same stupid stories they give us in earth-movies, but with more special effects.  Good sci-fi is philosophical, it will challenge our preconceptions about life here on earth in the early 21st, but what we end up seeing is the same old car chase & explosions movie but in space.  *yawn*

"Isolation, mis-education, and for the very clever there is looming liquidation."  -Catch Twenty-Two "Bad Party"