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Topic: Self Transforming Machine Elves?

Hi guys,

I find this an interesting topic. I myself have read extensivelly on dmt and find it to be a fascinating chemical and experience.

The constant entity/alien contact people seem to experience on dmt seems to suggest one of two possibilities, it's all the construct of the mind no matter how zany or outlandish it may be or it is the other, whatever that other may be.

The intriguiging thing about the DMT experience is an archetypal simularity in peoples experiences.

Mckenna desribed it as the archetype of the circus, and through reading The Spirit Molecule, alot articles and trip reports there indeed does seem to be a kind of space/hyperdimension/reality where there are entities of various kinds in this realm that are outlandish, funny and circuis like but also sometimes prankish and cruel.

And the strange thing is that alot of people report seeing the same or similiar beings, the elfish type, a reptillian/salamander, the famous gray type, and insectoid mantis/ant/bee type being are some of the most common entities encountered by dmt voyages however there are also other types aswell.

If we take the notion that this space and beings are not just constructs of a overactive imagination due to a chemical pertubation in the mind (and my gut feeling is that it is not) then what we are left with is what sci fi writers/the ufo community/ seti etc have been after all along, an actual communication/contact with the other.

Now this other could be many things, a parallel reality, dark matter, a higher dimension etc but if this is so than dmt is not so much a drug but an actual way for the mind to tune into this space of information and alien contact.

David Bohm an American quantum physicist wrote extensively about something he refers to as the implicite order which can be summed up in the following cut and paste:

'Bohm's holomovement is in a transcendental realm in which the manifest space-time is absent. Again, the implicate order cannot be perceived. Space-time is projected as manifest explicate order from this implicate order.' It is this explicit order, according to Bohm, that is all that we perceive, both externally and internally'

So DMT might possibly be the a way to actually glimpse at this implicate order whatever it may be.

My own personal beleifs are that since serotonin is the major chemical that allows our mind to function and observe this reality, by ingesting dmt the mind tunes into a different frequency of reality/dimension/(you name it) so to speak and we see what is normally inaccasible and masked from direct observation.

I also beleive that human DNA and DMT somehow play an intergral role in the dmt experience, something along the lines of DMT allowing accessing to far greater amounts of a persons DNA (which I see as a form of some kind of incredibly complex technology) to allow ones consciousness access to these spaces.

The actual beings themselves are the most fascinating part of the dmt experience. Most people have probably read about Mckenna's descriptions of the tyke/elf machines that occur at the peak of the dmt flash that show u impossible objects.
Mckenna's theories on these things is that they could be one of a number of things: 1 us in the future, 2 a race of hyperintelligent beings, 3 souls of the dead, human or otherwise, 4 angelic/demonic entities as stated in gnostic texts (angels/archons?) and various religions throughout history, 5 Currently unknown phenomena.

The Gnostic angle is rather interesting, reading a little bit about Gnostiscm and the Sophia mythos from the metahistory.org site i came upon an intersting snippet about how fractals relate to the Gnostic mythology:

"The Gaia Mythos describes how the impact of the Aeon Sophia upon the density of atomic matter produced a massive fracture, like the shatter pattern on an ice pond. The pattern has a center where Sophia is located (identified by the Mandelbrot Set), and a spider-web extension of fracture lines that run in all directions (the frozen sea of fractal waves). Episode 9 describes how Sophia, situated in the center of the impact zone, sees around Her something like a sea of tensile waves, and riding the waves, or actually composing the waves they appear to ride, are self-repeating forms that resemble seashorses. These seahorses are similar to the forms that appear at high reiteration of the equation for the Mandelbrot Set. These forms correspond to the anatomical type spontaneously generated from formless atomic matter by Sophia's impact, a type called the "shadow body," haibes in Coptic.

A word on fractals: although fractal-like patterns appear in nature (in ferns, for instance: the disposition of the leaves on a stem is repeated in the form of the stemmed branches), the self-similar forms produced by high iteration are not natural, strictly speaking. Fractals such as those pictured here result from feeding a mathematical formula into a computer and having the formula reprocess itself, over and over again. However, the forms so produced do resemble the famous "paisley" seen by many people who took LSD in the 1960s. I would argue, first, that fractals are consistently seen in altered states, and second, that the patterns thus seen may also represent real, though supernatural processes in the cosmos at large. "

This is rather an interesting statement as many if not all experiences of DMT break into a "fractal landscape" of sorts where they are occasionaly confronted by various types of  'entities'.

Another theory/idea I have read is that these things are the Elohim or our creator gods, they are not god per se but a very intelligent race of entities that do not exist in this dimension/reality but have a far greater freedom so to speak( kind of like a person looking into a fishtank) and were the fish!  smile

Mckenna mentions that at the peak of the flash when he enters this space he calls the dome, he mentions that he feels like there is immense weight above him like he is far underground and on one time he described the dmt flash as a pulling sensation, something was pulling him downwards very deeply.

This is interesting because I had read this channeled information ( bit skeptical of that stuff smile ) but anyway this was from the Cosmic Awareness channeled sessions and was entitled "Elohim Planted Huge Computer In the Bowels of Earth", heres a bit of what it had to say:

'This Awareness indicates that deep within the bowels of this earth is a computer, which is beyond the understanding of present science, which was placed here approximately one million years ago by a race of entities
known as the Els, or Elders, who have since transcened time and space and moved into at which is Celestria.

This Awareness indicates these entities also known as the Elohim.
This Awareness indicates that these entities had the wisdom and understanding and capabilities of creating planets by manipulatin magnetic forces and electric fields so that the mass would move into these vertices to create those planets, an follow the magnetic field  set up by their forces.'

And here's what it said about this computer:

'That these computers do not have moving parts but rather
relate to crystals which emanate energies, which affect certain areas of consciousness and which read and receive impressions from consciousness.

This may be understood better by a parallel whereby one considers the concept of music,where a note is struck and many vibrations come forth from that note. This Awareness suggests that wherein this could be registered on a screen entities would see the initial note and see the overtones or vibrations coming from that note and see also further vibrations coming from each of those secondary vibrations, and so forth.

This Awareness indicates that the computer works in a similar manner whereby certain energy is emanated which has its effect on certain stress points in the earth's structure, which then emanates  certain energies out into certain other points. These relate to leys,--this spelled I-e-y-s, or lines,--these as magnetic Iines and their cross-points with other magnetic lines and the forces then emanate from these leys and cross-points out into consciuusness into the atmosphere, and from there reflect in the culture of the people of that particular areas and in further reflections affects individuals.'

An interesting theory which does sound a little like a dmt flash.

Whatever these states are and wherever they take you (if anywhere!) , they are definatley fascinating! smile

Re: Self Transforming Machine Elves?

Yes fascinating indeed. have you read Cosmic serpent by Jeremy Narby, he talks much of DMT taking the consciousness down to the molecular level and communicating with DNA.
This is similar to my experiences with Salvia in the very short transitional period i felt myself going into the gaps between matter and outside of this space continium. Salvia IMO is even weirder than DMT but both are similar in terms of the breakthrough stage visions/waking dreams that are more than real and nothing like a nightime normal dream.

If we as matter bodies are the product of our DNA projecting outward then the inner journey of contacting it makes some kind of sense. Are bad and terryfying trips down to connecting to something else other than our internal DNA?

This guy comes to differnet conlusions but i read the article because at least he has taken DMT, though i dont agree with all he says.
http://www.tripzine.com/articles.asp?id=dmt_pickover

Its not like we are fractions of the whole but rather versions of the whole.

Re: Self Transforming Machine Elves?

I just dig the title of this thread.   If there was a "Most Interesting and Funny Thread Title for the Month of October" award, I think this would be it!   big_smile

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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Re: Self Transforming Machine Elves?

Meerkat,
Thanks for the post.  I have read and heard McKenna speak of the self transforming machine elves.

Not quite sure where they fit into the gamut of entities.  They sound like they are friendly and playful and attempting to communicate.

I think that thin veils may be all the separates us from other valid realities.

Just change the channel a bit, tune into a different frequency, and there you are.

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Re: Self Transforming Machine Elves?

Barefoot doc, I haven't read the cosmic serpent yet but definetly will, sounds like a fascinating read and I like how it seems to delve into the topic of DNA and how much intelligence is within us that is untapped. I have also experianced salvia a few times and i also find it extremely weird! smile The strange thing about salvia is that alot of people also seem to make contact with entities but on alot of occasions it seems to be a female motherly presence however this is not always the case.

Glad you liked the title Lyra! Gotta love those elves! smile

Wandering yes I agree they do seem like how you described them and after researching dmt and the experiences for quite awhile it seems to me that dmt can really place you in a variety of locations and encounter a variety of entities from the greys/reptillians (took a wrong turn in hyperspace! big_smile) to huge multi eyed octopus's but if you really push the dosage alot of people always encounter the very friendly put prankish elf tykes. For those of you who haven't read about the dmt and the strange dimensions it takes you to a great account of a dmt trip can be found here:

http://deoxy.org/timemind.htm

I find that Mckenna's articulate descriptions of these states really try to give the experience justice. I also beleive that alot of these beings and strange dimensions you break through seems to validate alot of the information that is here at Noble Realms, a kind of experiantal reinforcement of the theories! smile

6 (edited by bumblebee 2005-10-14 01:49:31)

Re: Self Transforming Machine Elves?

While I personally don't think experimenting is always dangerous (depending on personality, motivation, personal circumstances) I think this note from Robert Bruce in (Astral Dynamics, page 373, 374) is appropriate:

"The only cases I have come across where projecters have had seriously bad experiences with lower subplanes involved hallucinogenic drugs being used to precipitate out-of-body experiences. Drugs, while capable of causing out-of-body experiences, sidestep the required skills and abilities necessary for safe conscious-exit projection. This breaks many natural laws concerning projection while artificially overcoming many natural safeguards and barriers. Natural barriers are there to protect the novice from operating in dimensional areas they are not equipped to experience. Many drug users have laughed at my stance on this, saying they usually only have positive experiences. But, it only takes one bad experience,  one hellish experience, to ruin your mind and your life, possibly forever. Using drugs to achieve OBE is like playing Russian roulette with a live round in the revolver."

I wonder how accurate can astral perceptions be while using substances, it's not clear if these machine elves are aspects of the subconscious, dreamlike characters or a garbled perceptions of something else entirely, beyond the understanding of the participant.

the eyes of truth are always watching you

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Re: Self Transforming Machine Elves?

Bumblebee,

I agree, the places these substances take you are definetley not for everyone, I think that a person has to be prepared, couragous and experienced with these states to really understand what there seeing and how to navigate these bizzare bardo like dimensions, kinda like the amazonian ayauascaros who have great wisdom and shamanistic abilities which allows them to heal  there people and acquire wisdom through there practices.

I think what Robert Bruce mentions is right to an extent, these things are definetly not toys and shouldn't be used for kicks as that's when things can usually go wrong but with experienced, kind and responsible guides and an inquistive nature about reality I beleive that they can really open doors to realms of unbeleivable beauty, understanding and perception.

I beleive that many secrets about ourselves and the universe at large are locked inside evey human being and that by carefully and respectfully using these tools/sacraments they allow us to explore and see just how amazing and wonderous this universe really is and how little we really know. But I guess the best thing about these substances is that theres no middle man required, no preacher, channeler, guru, zen master, this spiritual heriachial stuff just doesn't gel with me, I think theres nothing wrong with experienced guides and fellow people helping you but I beleive that exploring spirituality and knowledge should have more of a joyful comradre vibe with people exploring and exchanging stuff around with no heirs and graces kinda like the gnostics did it and how people do it here! big_smile

And I think the bottom line is direct  experience, I mean a person can read about strange dimensions, conspiracy theories, channeled stuff, sacred religious text's but it's all still just unconfirmable rumour as far as I'm concerned and some or all of it could be bunk smile but if you have a direct experience, something that touches your heart and soul and very being and leaves you glimpsing a tiny part of the ineffable mystery and then if other people saw or felt the same thing, fresh and exciting ideas can be exchanged and maybe a little part of a new map can be drawn. smile

Re: Self Transforming Machine Elves?

meerkat wrote:

And I think the bottom line is direct  experience.

meerkat, I agree with you wholeheartedly, a person I once knew used to say
"Gods breath is not a vicar's fart"

...and the point you make about safe explorations for the psychedelic neophyte too...
one has to be prepared for the boundaries between the conscious and sub-conscious
to dissolve i.e. to let go of the ego, which, if one is not ready for, can be very challenging..
I think Maslow's 'set/setting/substance' triangle is very important in this respect,
and as you say, for a trusted, experienced guide to be at hand should there be any
difficulties in the experience.

Everything in what we call creation is energy resonating at different frequencies.
The universe is a song...