Exploring Dimensions and The "Matrix" Phenomenon (Page 2 of 5)

Castaneda would say that ayahuasca would induce an intense shift in your assemblage point, the tuning dial of your perceptions, and the experience would therefore have little to do with accessing cosmic chakras, if they even exist.

BB, from where do you get this info about 12 chakras and the three "highest ones being dismally even understood"? It's not something one could normally logically deduce or intuit, so you must have read it somewhere. From Bringers of the Dawn maybe?

I've wondered about this myself..., since in the Cass material there is a difference of opinion:

This last part  reminded me of what JT said about him expecting to see jaguars and other things typically reported, but instead saw something far grander. If his experience should have happened according to expectation, then why did he not see what he expected? Perhaps there's something special about ayahuasca, that differentiates it from something as potentially subjective as peyote. Or, if ayahuasca does induce objective experiences, then why did others on ayahuasca not experience what JT experienced? Maybe it depends on your spiritual frequency, the bandwidth of your energy circuits, your intent for what to gain from the experience?

This is all something worth sorting out, but without direct perception ourselves of chakras it's hard to even make any definitive statements concerning their nature, let alone figuring out how ayahuasca would affect the metaphysical parts of ourselves. Besides accessing cosmic chakras, or shifting the assemblage point, are there any other metaphysical theories explaining what exactly is happening during an ayahuasca experience? And how does this relate to astral travel, in which one can also access strange realms? Lastly, what is the potential for deception, misinterpretation, or disinformation being brought back from a drug-induced experience?

JT, you said that now you seek to access realms via development only, in other words, no more shortcuts like ayahuasca. What is your opinion on the overall value of your experience...if you could go back and not have tried it, would you choose this option? Would you advice against others trying it?

I think that is incorrect Tom. I think the chakras are necessary for our "armour" + "control" in those realms. Those realms are intended to be traveled by multidimensional beings. Humans are multidimensional, but only at their original form: 12 DNA strands. Only when we are fully-functioning are we able to wander with caution and protection.

I think when one goes in without this being the case, they are not aware of their electromagnetic interactions with the environment and the beings. Therefore without even knowing it, we come out with less than we came in. We are not aware, therefore we are ignorant. And we all know what the C's say about ignorance. It endangers!

You're sailing in an ocean with beings and what-not at every corner of your boat. Uncharted territory with uncharted mechanics. It's a violating experience when we are not aware of our complete physical/ethereal composition when entering realms that see us more clearly then we see ourselves. Like a blind and deaf man walking into a crowded room of criminals and super-heros. How will he know which way to walk towards?

I'm with Castaneda and Tom.  Movement of the assemblage point. (not the 12 chakra bit) And with Ayahuaca it sounds like depending on the person, the assemblage point not only moves but shifts.  Thereby, accessing multiple worlds.

A shift of the assemblage point is like turning the dial of a radio.  Different perspectives are now available.  A movement of the assemblage point is like moving the radio...to China perhaps.  So, now a different perspective appears AND a new world. (the assemblage point moves from the middle of the back to the left kidney area, as an example)

I just now realized why, maybe Icke did not have the huge change.  His assemblage point is pretty fixed.  Concretized, as they say.  So, his reality may have shifted some BUT he didn't find himself in different worlds.

Whereas, JT, with a seemingly more fluid assemblage point found himself all over the landscape as it were...

And to further go with the Toltec teachings as imparted by Theun Mares, the "world of the beast" is the easiest to assemble, (but horrific) by virtue of the fact that man is very closely allied to animals.  So...it seems that many on the Ayahusca experience the world of the beast, Jacquar, etc as it's easiest to do so.  JT appears to have assembled many of the worlds.  However, as Tom says Ayahusca can be seen to be a short-cut and as a result can have deleterious effects.

Theun says in "Cry of the Eagle" "It is simply not possible to explore our hidden potential whilst we remain firmly caught up in this world we have inherited by virtue of our physical incarnation, and the accumulated effects of social condition."

The 12 chakra bit has always gone thud for me.  Not that it might not be true but it's never had the ring of truth for me. 

The horribly scary danger with Ayahusca is that I believe...some may not be able to re-assemble this world...which sounds like what happened for a bit to JT.

I've experienced without Ayahusca, several years ago, having a few worlds existing ontop of this world and believe me it was terrifying...it took me approximately 7 years to reassemble this world.

I don't recommend it. 

It takes enormous personal power to enter into dimensions safely. 

Christine B.

BB:
OK...I admit it was a bit tsk tsk.  However, to defend myself (sin of sins, I know) I felt your saying to Tom..."I feel that is incorrect," was stated in a finite, dogmatic way.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but how could you know something is wrong of itself unless you have investigated what you say is wrong?

Bringers might be completely correct but that does not make a different perspective wrong.

Not a black and white world we live in, wouldn't you agree?

And I admit, I haven't read the sequel in any depth.  I leafed through it and found it to be not appealing to me.  So, you've got me on that one.  So, I am guilty of what I accuse you of.  Discounting something without trying it.

I tend to get kinda...uptight, for lack of a better word though when I hear stuff like "light-workers need each other" - for starters, the term light-workers makes me think of being Tinkerbell, so it doesn't appeal to me.  And, secondly, I've had some pretty heated rows with some of my closest friends as we are still subject to our views of the world and tend to hold tightly to our patterns and we respect that that happens at times. 

So, when I'm told to be less intense, less confrontational in what seems to be an effort to get me to "mend my ways"...it sends alarms.

What I  see BB is when you are called to the table, perhaps prematurely or a bit abruptly, you then turn the tables to show how me or someone else is not allowing you to pursue your path, and how you've now become the victim of judgmental light-workers. That is completely silly.  Pursue with wild abandon. 

But, *if* we are here to learn with and from each other, then wouldn't Tom or anyone else be remiss if they saw me heading straight for an on-coming train, without at least saying...errr...I think you should look up. 

In other words, to me, BB...light-work isn't sweetness and light but helping to bring as much truth to the table as possible.  What is most helpful to me actually, are examples others have had using information found in books...anecdotes from their lives.   Not necessarily a synopsis of a book.  And that is what I found about your post about the 12 strands. It wasn't real, to me.

I think I mentioned several posts ago how thankful I am that this board exists...and that of course means your contributions as well.

CB

It's smart to rejoice in the love and light of the Infinite Creator, but what you're talking about here instead is becoming tinkerbell fairies. Yes, cynical intellectualism is outmoded and imbalanced, but so is choosing its polar opposite, mushy tree hugging. Where's the balance and discernment?

When you reach a new level of being that transcends your logical side, rather than wanting to puke your logical side should acknowledge the superior guidance of your newfound center and serve it well. Lower always serves higher.

The number one fallacy propagated in the New Age community is to toss aside reason and go entirely on mushy feeling. However, what this really does is suppress the lower intellectual center so that its subordinate, the positive half of the lower emotional center, is given free reign. Translations: you throw out your brains to succumb to your wishful whims. That's a step down the ladder of spiritual progress.

If instead you properly accessed your higher centers, which is what spiritual progress is mainly about, then there is no need to throw aside reason and logical discernment. Rather, the intellect now becomes a tool of divine insight. Compare it to a sword being empowered by your chi, thus assuming a new degree of proficiency. Intellect advised by divine insight forms the ability of divine reasoning, which is more objective than mere intellectual reasoning.

So what I'm saying is, pile on the love and light, but if you do it to the exclusion of intellect, then you're actually being misled into perceiving your lower emotional center as your higher, because only the lower needs suppression of the higher to appear as the "top" center. Remember what the C's said: love is light is knowledge.

Light, love, and knowledge require strength, balance, and discernment. We all can get excited with new information, but getting carried away leads to imbalance and misjudgment. Or rather, the latter implies the first.

So regarding what you said above, in these types of activities we must also remember the most essential of virtues: humility. Those who sincerely intend to serve others do more walking than talking, more coasting than boasting, more working than jerking, see? Of course you cannot be commanded to do this, rather it is something whose necessity must be understood from within, or something that evolves naturally from self-reflection and maturation. It is something to at least strive for. Real "lightworkers" are compassionate but prudent, dedicated but humble, loving yet discerning, driven yet centered. They are not tinkerbell fairies, but responsible and humble servants of truth and love.

Tom thank  you for this post.  I just ordered one of Preston Nichols books, because of what you've just written.  I know nothing about his work and nothing about the Montouk project although I did see the movie based on the Philadelphia Experiment

This "zero time reference" or lack of spacetime anchor may be what is awry with autistic children.
Just a thought but I've worked with autistic kids and their minds float.  A perfect description.

Also, I'm seeing that I have a huge imbalance - as I tend to stay away from anything science-like/math. (audendove pointed to this during the gyroscope thread).  For example, it is much more
real to me that psychics could project and change someone's thoughts, than science.

And it never dawns on me that science could (and does) the same thing and can "capture" beings.

I'm always incredulous when I hear science doing psychic stuff.  I tend to think of scientists dealing purely with stuff they can see/touch etc.

A blind spot of mine for sure.  I can see that better now and how it limits and fixes my view.
So, thanks.

Good Morning,

Excellent to see how this post has developed overnight - and a few tangents too.

"you said that now you seek to access realms via development only, in other words, no more shortcuts like ayahuasca. What is your opinion on the overall value of your experience...if you could go back and not have tried it, would you choose this option? Would you advice against others trying it?"

I would say that when I originally made the decision to try ayahuasca, that at the time I did not see it as a shortcut as such, although many people do use ayahuasca for just these reasons.

I am very familiar with the chemical and biological aspects of Ayahuasca and wanted to explore the concept of Plant/Human symbiosis as a genuine means of facilitating or accelerating growth in line with a larger potential design.

Before I answer the question there are some further details I would like to make clear.

The saying goes that a single Ayahuasca session is comparable to 1 year of psychoanalysis type therapy. Nine times out of ten the vast majority of people will say that it has turned their lives around and/or has accomplished a very deep healing.

I have seen a video of full grown men, full blooded tribal warriors, standing in a Shamans hut and waiting to receive their Ayahuasca brew literally shaking at the knees with anxiety and fear. This is despite growing up with Ayahuasca since childhood, and taking Ayahuasca on a fairly regular basis as part of their culture.

What significantly effected my own journey was both the strength and quality of the brew which was 10/10, and the quantity. Now the Ayahuasca journey consists of two stages.

1) The Purge (El Gato) which occurs after approximately 45 minutes and will involve extreme amounts of vomiting and diaorreah - this cleanses on both a physical and energetic level - the more "crud" you are carrying, the more extreme the purge can be. It is known in some areas as El Gato (the cat) because you vomit from a place within you that is so deep, that your lower intestine does not even know it is there (smile) - and when you let that vomit go you literally "Roar like a Lion". For those that are already into the second part of the journey it is interesting to watch what is lifting off of people during the purge - all manner of energetic debris, pollution, negative thought forms etc.

2) The second stage of the journey, then involves the visionary part and which can last on average around about 3-4 hours.

The amount of ayahuasca consumed is dependent upon bodyweight and overall constitution which is carefully ascertained by the Shaman. Typically a male will drink between 80-150ml of brew (depending also on strength and quality) and then sit and wait for the purge. If after about 45 minutes you dont experience a purge or a visionary stage then it is quite normal to have another 150ml booster and the shaman administrates this.

In my case the Journies were spread out over a Friday and Saturday night, with the days prior to this spent with the group following a very limited and strict diet and plenty of meditation and relaxing and talks and lectures on Ayahuasca.

My first journey started around 9pm at night and we followed the rituals as guided by the shaman, the brew was passed around so that everyone had a glass and then we all drank together. I started to feel mildy nauseas after about 15 minutes, but not heavily, so I sat and watched the others in the group around me mostly all gradually succumb in droves to the purge. After around 45 minutes I was feeling relatively clear and the Shaman asked who required a booster so I then decided to have another 150ml or so.

Around about the 1 and a half hour stage nothing really significant had occured for me and I was somewhat disappointed that I appeared to be the only one in the group that was not in the throws of an Ayahuasca Journey. I had a few hot and cold flushes and the room around me appeared very faintly as though it was painted on a canvas tapestry - could actually see the interweaving of the canvas material, then I started to yawn profusely and could not stop (this is a kind of somatic release) and after another 30 minutes I just laid down, closed my eyes and fell into a very deep sleep.

I woke the next morning around 6am, disappointed that I had not experienced anything and yet profoundly moved as though something significant had occured within me - and yet all I recall from the first evening is a jet black velvety wall of darkness, that no matter how much I tried to remember, I could not penetrate - just inky blackness.

I spent most of the next day on the saturday in profound thought and with a tightly knitted brow listening to other recall their experiences. Most of that day I was literally feeling Ayahuasca moving within me - it is a very visceral feeling and can be a bit unsettling. Everyone was radiating a very peaceful and healthy aura and I was even more determined that tonight it was going to happen for me, afterall I had not just spent all this time travelling to get here, taking a week of work, etc etc just to listen to others experiences with me being the odd one out. (At the back of my mind was a continuing nagging thought that tonight would probably be the same a Friday, and I became mildly despondant)

Saturday night we all headed over to where the ceremony takes place around 9m and followed the usual ritual and process. I received my 150ml and announced my intent with conviction.

After around 5 minutes I experienced extreme nausea but no vomit or similar, I became extremely cold, lost mostly all sensation of my body and the rest is history.

So over these two days I had consumed nearly half a litre of industrial quality Ayahuasca, on a limited diet and that is in part, what dictated the "potential" of my experience.

Most sessions of Ayahuasca involve consuming around 70-80ml at a single sitting and this the experience is "ayahuasca light", normally quite pleasant and only mildy tinged with fear.

Benny Shannon (antipodies of the mind) reports that only around 5% of Ayahuasca journies are "virtual reality" experiences - this is based on a catagorisation of ayahuasca journies taken from over 2500 different experiences including his own. I was unfortunate/fortunate enough to land in the rogue statistic.

I know this is a bit of a long winded answer but I had to put it in context.

After long thought and consideration, would I go back and not try it, knowing what I now know? the answer is a resounding NO - that is to say I would not go back and change what happened.

Would I advise it to others? I have thought really long and hard on this and my answer would be that Ayahuasca will only let you experience what you are capable of processing and dealing with and not a single bit more.

Now, Ayahuascas idea of what one can deal with, compared to the individuals idea of what can be coped with is the crux point and where the greatest fragmentation and resultant healing can occur. If you dont exceed your limitations then you never know what you are capable of.

Ayahuasca acted as a positive catalyst for me and one that I only started to recognise as such nearly 18 months after the event.

Lyra's description is uncannily spot on : I CAN'T **DO** THIS ANYMORE, IT'S NOT REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  HOW DO I KEEP GOING WHEN I KNOW IT'S NOT REAL?!?!?

Bearing in mind I had to be back at work on the following Monday this was an incredibly challenging time for me - Iespecially the first very intense 6 months, post ayahuasca - at times the truth of it descends on you many times you can find yourself gibbering in a corner with fear, white faced and with sweat running off you and various extremes thereof -  in a panic because there is no escape and nowhere to turn to because it is completely pervasive both within you and without you.......and no-one that can explain it to you no matter how many Phd's they have in Anthopology, Psychology, Quantum Strangeness or whatever.

BB I really respect your opinion and input, and I remain open to what you have said, but all of this I have already put under a microscope in the past and cross referenced with people I respect that are in a position to know some of these truthsm and I can only say that it is far beyond "Love and Light" and the human chakra system

Montalk - you continue to remain the solid core that supports/allows the extreme change and rate of spin that is occuring at the further most extremes of this gyroscopic forum. The question you asked I have until now not attempted to answer so thankyou.

Christine and Lyra, thankyou for being so open, you both in your own ways really embody the feeling and softness of the feminine coupled with a healthy balance of the masculine :-D

I personally have some major problems with both Bringers of the Dawn which I am reading at the moment, as well as the Cassiopoean material which I have been following for quite a while. I think what should be embraced from this material is the issues that are raised, as opposed to signing up fully to the doctrine of either.
I have no doubt that there are many truths within much of the material and I feel myself "resonating" with a lot of it - but dangerously so, and that is what makes me so cautious about it.

Ayahuasca demonstrated to me also that all of the "bliss, tingly energy, feel right kind of sensations can all be artificially induced" by whatever it is that has overlaid and pervaded the conciousness of mankind.

Evil, to coin an obtuse word, works in one of two ways:

1) Either by direct and brutal violence in which case you know immediately what you are dealing with, and the "devil" has shown all of his cards.

or

2) By incredibly subtle and ongoing trickery and manipulation often coated in honey, in which case many of the cards remain hidden.

Either way,the motivation is the same and both are means of delivering the same end goal, irrespective of how it is arrived at.

Bringers of the Dawn appeals to a place within many people, as does the C material, and it goes a long way to reaffirming and putting into context what many people, myself included, feel inside - it is a highly convincing closing of the loop that resonates on many levels - BUT there is something about it that does not quite ring as solidly as it should do.

A few years ago, what I first understood as being the multidimensional self was a) more or less a JT existing in other more or less human probabilities and dimensions, all fulfilling the lifeplan and b) my shadow selves, my unresolved past lives trauma, suppressed emotions and negativity  - the murderer and rapist in me, the torturer in me etc along with all the same supressed emotions and trauma of this current life - but all the same,  still in a human format.

I have actively sought to process a great deal of this and have experienced the fear associated with doing so and witnessed much as I have worked though it either alone or through other techniques with various specialists.

After writing my previous post, I hit the sack last night and continued to read Bringer of the Dawn and came across this with regard to the multi-dimensional self:

Page 80: There is a convergence of your selves about to occur on this planet.The selves that you are going to meet are coming from all over the universe.They are selves that petrify you when you think about them and selves that you could die of a heart attack looking at. They are selves that are you.

Page 81: The 3-D world is heading for a collision of dimensions - not a collision of worlds, a collision of dimensions.Many dimensions are going to come crashing into each other. Some of these dimensions may seem horrifying and very frightening. The test, the initiation - and initiation always means to move through another reality and conquer and transmute it - is to be faced with these energies and entities that seemingly are of incredible darkness and to understand that they are coming to merge with you because they are you.

So much of this rang true with a part of my ayahuasca journey which took place over roughly 8 hours.

So I am not really that much nearer to understanding what it was that I experienced - It is not that I know what I experienced, but every day I come closer to knowing what it was NOT.

Regards

JT