Topic: How likely is it that your God doesn't exist?

The title really explains it all, as the link below is an attempt to disprove something.  So often people try to tear another's ideas down and mask it as trying to understand your point of view, bringing rationality to a "heathen".  This really demonstrates the limits of human thinking and the desperation of the ego to make others conform.  So often we try to understand God as if he's really just some human with God-like powers.  Read the reasoning behind why your God is likely not to exist- because the human mind thinks it has figured everything out...

http://www.philosophersnet.com/games/whatisgod.htm

Can't we just let people believe what they believe?  Can't we have our traditions, connections to the our experiences and reality, the archetypes that connect us to the subconscious that we all share, as long as we don't harm another, physically, in doing so?  After all, what is God but the realization that each of us creates our own universe when we interpret reality?  This helps us understand our connection to our psychology, our souls.  We need more Jungs!

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

2 (edited by montalk 2005-09-08 20:47:48)

Re: How likely is it that your God doesn't exist?

Haha, lack of proof is not necessarily proof to the contary, but these agnostic intellectuals seem to assume so. Because they can't come up with a reason to believe something, they refuse to believe it. And so their belief is bounded by their ignorance. What about believing a plausible idea until one finds a good reason to disprove it? That always made more sense to me.

But still, sometimes truth transcends reason and one can know certain truths without knowing how or why, and in that case reasoning for or against such gnostic insights is irrelevant since it's not even in the territory of logical debate. These guys want everything to be uniform and tidy without room for personal choice for what to believe...faithless and spiritless they are.

Here's one argument the site proposed against the idea of a Creator that sustains existence:

The metaphysical engineers are finding it hard to model this God in our universe. The laws of physics do not seem to require that the universe has anything outside of itself to continue to exist. Therefore, they can't quite see what kind of evidence it would be possible to point to in order to come to the belief that God is required for the universe to continue.

In quantum physics, without "something" turning wave functions into manifested realities, reality would not exist -- that "something" cannot be accounted for under any physical theory or measurement, therefore it's outside this physical universe. The sustainer of physicality resides beyond physicality.

Another thought: In a dream, what dream laws point to there needing to be a mind sustaining the dreamscape?

Ah well, if their belief in the non-existence of god gives them security, then so be it. Their choice.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: How likely is it that your God doesn't exist?

Ah well, if their belief in the non-existence of god gives them security, then so be it.

But you gotta wonder if they're abandoning real internal and necessary wisdom when they refuse the mythology that the mind has transposed upon our interpretation of reality.  I mean, what we are, what we're capable of, is a lot more than we can understand at this point, and there's a reason why man came up with these ideas.  Shamans and other illuminated individuals brought back symbols from that other world, and it seems very likely that our mind, or soul, or whatever you want to call it, works more on subconscious level that has these symbols for processes a lot more subtle and important than our conscious minds can understand.  Seems rationality has brought mental sickness with it, as well as a major decline in connection with other people and our general environment.  While some say that it is irrational to believe in a God, why is it that children are fantasy prone?  Why are we hard-wired for this sort of thinking?  I think that injecting scientific thinking in our beliefs, as opposed to gnostic experience (maybe the only legitimate and healthy spirituality, even as dogma and faith lead us there), may actually be quite unnatural for ourselves, forced upon us and creating stress.  Forego the symbols, and it may lead to more problems.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

4 (edited by SiriArc 2005-09-09 01:45:09)

Re: How likely is it that your God doesn't exist?

Quote below is from:

The Fire From Within:
http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan7.html

To see the mold of man on your own, unaided by anyone, is an important step, because all of us have certain ideas that must be broken before we are free; the seer who travels into the unknown to see the unknowable must be in an impeccable state of being. To be in an impeccable state of being is to be free of rational assumptions and rational fears.
      The old seers as well as the mystics of our world have one thing in common--they have been able to see the mold of man but not understand what it is. Mystics, throughout the centuries, have given us moving accounts of their experiences. But these accounts, however beautiful, are flawed by the gross and despairing mistake of believing the mold of man to be an omnipotent, omniscient creator; and so is the interpretation of the old seers, who called the mold of man a friendly spirit, a protector of man.
      The new seers are the only ones who have the sobriety to see the mold of man and understand what it is; the pattern of every human attribute we can think of and some we cannot even conceive. We are what it stamps us with.
      Anyone who sees the mold of man automatically assumes that it is God. The new seers have seen that what we call God is a static prototype of humanness without any power. We are simply the product of its stamp; we are its impression. The mold of man is exactly what its name tells us it is, a pattern, a form, a cast that groups together a particular bunch of fiberlike elements, which we call man.
      * * *
     
      There are two ways of seeing the mold of man. You can see it as a man or you can see it as a light. That depends on the shift of the assemblage point. If the shift is lateral, the mold is a human being; if the shift is in the midsection of man's band, the mold is a light.
      The position where one sees the mold of man is very close to that where the dreaming body and the barrier of perception appear. That is the reason the new seers recommend that the mold of man be seen and understood.

http://tinypic.com/dliykw.gif

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Re: How likely is it that your God doesn't exist?

The "mold of man" would be that of the creator.  We are children of the divine--made in His likeness and image.  It's potential is infinite/limitless.  "Man is the measure of all things"--a fractal "micro" to the divine "macro".  Castaneda's work is so convoluted sometimes.   It just rubs me the wrong way sometimes.  On another note though in keeping with the spirit of this thread, I try to be compassionate with these atheists and agnostics trying to undermine the credibility of any attempt ot understand the metaphysical, but damn is it ever hard.  I guess I should be sympathetic to their self-imposed plight, for they know not what they do.  They help fulfill the agenda of the "lizzies" and their ilk by purporting to be such rational people unfettered by all the dogmatic bullship that plagues the unlearned masses.  The jokes on them I guess.  I pray they open their hearts and eyes to the light of truth.

Of Earth only Man is great; of Man only mind is great.

6 (edited by Natural Mystic 2005-09-10 09:11:24)

Re: How likely is it that your God doesn't exist?

montalk wrote:

Another thought: In a dream, what dream laws point to there needing to be a mind sustaining the dreamscape?

I like that! Very deep and profound. 

I don't know if this is on topic or not, but my recent experiences has led me to a 'conclusion' of sorts.  This is mostly about beliefs.  What I've come to conclude (although concluding must be some sort of belief tongue) is that most (maybe all?) beliefs stop someone from learning and growing.  Once you believe in something, the ego will defend that view point in the hopes of keeping its power and control over the individual.  The other day I was having a discussion with my friend about what constitutes balence.  Using terms from Star Wars I concluded that balence is when all the Sith (representing negativity) no longer exist, while my friend went on to say that you need negativity and positivity to co-exist (like balencing a scale).  Then we proceeded to qustion "How can you be happy without the sad?" And that lead to the end of the conversation as we both ended up at the start. 

So as I was reading Stwart Wilde (once again) and he began to comment on judgement.  Then I came to the conclusion that by judging a situation/experience as negative/postitive you create conflict and/or duality!  So back to the conversation I was having with my friend, even before asking the question "How can you be happy without the sad?" you have to let go of the judgement of the situation and just BE. 

So my point is that although some -isms (religion) might have some truths in them, that one should never hold on to one's beliefs because in the end they will inprison him/her.  So this just led me to live a more centered and balenced life, eg. eat good food, medatation, excercise, detachment from media(both sides) etc.

"Beyond the stars a new world awaits me now" - Wintersun

Re: How likely is it that your God doesn't exist?

Natural Mystic wrote:

What I've come to conclude (although concluding must be some sort of belief ) is that most (maybe all?) beliefs stop someone from learning and growing.

I've pretty much been coming to the same conclusion.  The funny thing is, is that this wisdom has been ever slow slowly been surfacing for years now, but I just tend to forget it as it slips away.  I figure it's because I don't understand it quite yet, but how much wisdom have I already been exposed to that I just forget about?

http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=2157

http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=2098

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.