1 (edited by wandering1 2005-07-27 23:16:46)

Topic: Terence Mckenna, Timewave Zero, and 2012

Selections from a discussion between Terence McKenna and Art Bell on the Coast to Coast radio program in May 1997.

TM: Well,  in looking at this, I created a vocabulary - actually I borrowed it from Alfred North Whitehead - but I think I'm on to something which science has missed, and it's this; it's that the universe, or human life or an empire or an ecosystem, any large scale or small scale process, can be looked at as a dynamic struggle between two qualities which I call habit and novelty. And I think they're pretty self-explanatory. Habit is simply repetition of established patterns, conservation, holding back what has already been achieved into a system, and novelty is the chance-taking, the exploratory, the new, the never-before-seen. And these two qualities – habit and novelty – are locked in all situations in a kind of struggle.

AB: Is it a linear process or is it an exponentially acceleration process?

TM: It's an exponentially accelerating process which leads to a kind of end-of-the-world scenario which has led a lot of people to place me out with the squirrels because I'm saying that this process of novelty is now moving so quickly that within our own lifetimes it is going to accelerate essentially to such an intensity that we will be experiencing more novelty in a few weeks or days than we've previously experienced in the whole life of the cosmos.

AB: You have described precisely what I have just written about. I wrote a book called the Quickening.

TM: Someone showed me your book and I said yes, this guy is onto this.

AB: I'm on to it I guess in a more pedestrian perspective than yourself after listening to your first half hour, but we're talking about exactly, precisely the same thing. I've been this talk radio thing for about 13 years, you know, that all-night show, and I am a trained observer of events and people, and every night I've had to watch the news and dissect what's going on in our world to prepare for this program. And in that 13 years, unmistakably socially, politically, environmentally, you name it, in every one of those areas of human endeavor, things are beginning to accelerate. There is simply no question about it, and that sounds exactly to be the same thing you're proposing here.

TM: Yes, where I've gone further than most people is, a lot of people have noticed the "time is speeding up" phenomena, but they tend to give credit to science or media or something like that. What' I'm saying is that this is built into the laws of physics.

AB: Are you able to discern any time-lines to timewave zero?

TM: Yes, we've been talking about this as a metaphor ... what makes me, I hope, a little different from some of the other prophets in the marketplace is, I've got a formal mathematical theory that ... you know, I mentioned habit and novelty, this dualistic flow ... well, because it is a dualistic flow, it can be portrayed like the ebb and flow of the price of a stock, or something like that, in other words, it can be portrayed as a line graph. So I've written computer programs which produce what I call novelty waves ... in other words, a time-scale wave that pictures the ebb and flow of novelty. And by fitting known historical and paleontological and geological data into these waves at different scales, I was finally able to discern a best fit. But the conclusion that it led to was very startling to me, which is: this ultimate novelty, this transcendental object at the end of time, isn't millennia in the future, it is in fact slated to collide with historical necessity some time in late 2012.

Now, I know you have some interest in the Mayan calendar.  I didn't know when I calculated this date that it was the same end date as the Mayan calendar - to the day.

AB: Let me ask you this.  What did you input to your data base for this computer program? In other words, what did you start with?

TM: Well I had a very academic interest in the I Ching, which is the Chinese method of divination, and everyone who's looked at this thing has been struck by the fact that it seems to work, so I carried out a mathematical analysis.

AB: I don't know what I Ching is, and I know a lot of other people don't either. What is it?

TM: Well, it's existed for thousands of years in China.  It's sometimes done by throwing  stalks, or sometimes done with coins, but it's a method of producing a thing called a hexagram which made up of either broken or unbroken lines – six on top of each other – so if you're a mathematician you can figure, if it's made up of broken and unbroken lines and there are six of them on top of each other there must be a possibility of 64 of these things. And thousands of years ago in China there was a vast body of literary commentary built up around these hexagrams, and they have always been presented in a traditional order, a certain way that they are always presented. And I was studying a very academic question, which was, is this order of these hexagrams a true order, in other words, governed by rules, or is it simply a random jumble sanctioned by tradition?

And this very obscure academic question led ultimately to the discovery that the I Ching was a 384-day, thirteen lunar cycle calendar. And then from there I realized that this 384-day calendar was actually a subset in a fractal time-keeping scheme that is really more accurate and more sophisticated than anything in the west. So what I'm really suggesting here is that in the same way that the west conquered the nature of matter through the elaboration of modern science, about 4000 years ago in China a deeper analysis of time was carried out than has ever been undertaken in the west, and that the mathematics of this thing became buried then in this fortune-telling system.

The interesting thing, Art, is that with a wave like that, you can do what's called retrodicting. In other words, if you have a wave of novelty that describes the past, you have to correctly predict the Italian renaissance, the Greek enlightenment, the modernity of the 20th century, so by predicting the past, we've gained confidence that this wave predicts the future.

AB: That sounds quite scientific, in other words, science is repeatability, and if your can repeatedly demonstrate that you can mathematically show the events of the past, then yes I would imagine that you can project.

TM: Well, so I've been active since 1975, but the theory is in a sense very conservative. It never says what will happen, it says when interesting things are highly likely, and when you're just wasting your time.

AB: When you project toward 2012, what is the magnitude of the spike or the difference there? Can give us an idea of the magnitudes along the way?

TM: There is only one point in the entire cycle where the level of habit drops to zero; effectively then novelty becomes infinite. And at that point occurs on this solstice date in 2012. Now it's very interesting ... there are some people on the net called singularists, and they're hard-headed engineering types, and they take rates of energy release and rates of data storage, this sort of thing, and draw all their curves out, and they can see that some time between 2008 and 2020 everything - we produce infinite amounts of energy ... we pack infinite amounts of data into infinitely small spaces, in other words, the same sort of things where, because of the acceleration built into the unfolding of this novelty process, we're going to cross more territory between here and 2012 than we have crossed between the Big Bang and getting to here.

It kind of explains what is happening, that it isn't the old-style religion, that it isn't the sterile steady-state of science, it's that the universe is actually evolving some kind of process of self-metamorphosis, and human beings indicate that we have crossed some boundary into some new era, a new epoch of ever greater acceleration into this process of self-revelation. This is what religions are raving about, this is what every prophet on the street corner is trying to articulate, and I think it's real. I think we're getting a lot of static because people can only deal with it through images that they know.  You know, Marshall McLuhan said we drive into the future using only our rear view mirror, and that's sort of what it is. But I call this thing the transcendental object at the end of time, and I think in a sense, religion, Christian revelation, it will all be fulfilled in a way none of us ever suspected, because nature has this appetite for novelty and acceleration into novelty.

AB: So then again I ask, at this moment that we speak of 2012, what do you actually think will occur?

TM: Well, I've thought about this a good deal, and there are hard and soft scenarios, but I've noticed that what the Timewave seems most coherently able to track is technology. Somehow technology is very important, it's the transformation of the human relationship to the world through tools. And so what I'm thinking would fulfill this entire scenario without requiring God Almighty to put in an appearance is time travel. I think that we are moving toward, you know if you look at biology over huge scales of time -hundreds of millions of years - it is a kind of conquest of dimensionality.

TM: I think there's been ebb and flow of novelty within the 20th century, parts of it more novel than others. But I think to argue that it isn't among the most novel periods of time is a pretty uphill battle.

AB: You put together a computer program which was able to trace the ebb and the flow of this novelty and in effect chart major events in history. How many, if I might ask, hits and misses ... were there any misses in the model, or did you hit each, major moment on history on the nose?

TM: Well, by my understanding of this theory, there can be no misses. In other words, it's not a statistical theory, we're not okay if we're right two-thirds of the time, so we have to be right all of the time.

AB: So you're telling me you are.

TM:: I submit to you and to the world for your examination and critiquing the fact that yes, the Timewave with it's end point December 21, 2012, describes with as great an accuracy as I am able to discern the actual vicissitudes of novelty and habit in history and natural history. That's the claim.

Re: Terence Mckenna, Timewave Zero, and 2012

....here, we have been provided both an ongoing map without borders, and a compass that becomes our navigational tool and quantum wand.

because the ongoing map lacking border responses to our intent. we do not 'alter' the future as we become the future, and the future doesn't 'alter' us as the future becomes us.

since the passing of terence mckenna, if one allows themselves the benefits of absorbing his lingering wisdom, one will start to penetrate the hard scenarios placed before us as a reminder to take out the trash and recyclables. the former 'theorems' of reality no longer applies, because the former 'theorems' attempted to create and solidify borders that never could, and never would, exist.

science attempts to negate the ongoing map without borders by using hard scenarios to solidify borders into a predictable cache of 'precision'. even the wonders of quantum physics demands further extension of quantum physics into an ongoing art form that doesn't require borders and boundaries to remain frozen and trapped within a dimensional egg-womb set to burst and give birth to an infinite consummation of relentless possibilities and ongoing schemes and moments not kept under house arrest.

the glitches, in other words, and the struggles are critical components marking the time signature's restless and evolving beat. strategies require fluidity, as the late bruce lee was constantly expounding upon throughout his life as a martial artist: that 'style' didn't have a place in the evolving waters of his art, and the art of all of us.

conspiracy theories, and the like are fodder revealing a deeper portal that has nothing at all to do with any 'new world order' dream of total global control. and while the schemes are always there - the power brokers do exist, this much must be agreed upon - the failure of the schemes will continue to plague the operational intent of sleight-of-hand and talking heads hoisted upon the handless stump of the meat puppet arm. the rules of combat requires subtle knowledge and creative improvisation as weapons and tools used to pierce the veils attempting to conceal the absolute truths of the supreme truth.

politics, religion, the church-state, no longer means anything at all, sans the obligatory last danse-last chance at power and absolute control over minds and intent that can never be consumed nor plunder by such obsolete institutions of church, politics, and the church-state. we are free, and we are free to inherit the inheritance that we are born into but have chosen to forget and disremember.

when the walls are dissolved, and when the skies are revealed once more, are we going to see the papar chains we crafted to imprison our senses, or are we still going to claim victimhood, and thereby transform the paper chains into the wrought irons of real chains..?

lord moranosa.

3 (edited by wandering1 2005-07-28 22:59:50)

Re: Terence Mckenna, Timewave Zero, and 2012

Welcome lord moranosa!

A lord in our midst!

(Sorry, couldn't help it.)

Well written.  I like the map without borders idea.  I think that a major scenario like McKenna suggests actuallly unfolding in the next seven time-speeded-up years or so would be a fantastic, seemingly far fetched set of possibilities.

I keep thinking that if something major like that is going to happen then, then relatively soon we may see a set of events where it increasingly becomes obvious that something major is underway.

Re: Terence Mckenna, Timewave Zero, and 2012

From my point of view we're already seeing that, wandering1.

5 (edited by Jen 2005-07-29 14:24:02)

Re: Terence Mckenna, Timewave Zero, and 2012

Soloflecks wrote:

From my point of view we're already seeing that, wandering1.

Yes, wandering1...to me it's obvious already, but I'm curious why you don't think so, and what kind of events you are thinking of that would make these "major changes"  obvious to you.

And, welcome, lord m.,  and I too appreciated your post.

6 (edited by wandering1 2005-07-30 11:36:43)

Re: Terence Mckenna, Timewave Zero, and 2012

Thank you for those responses.

I can understand that given events that have already occurred and the general feeling of what is happening, there might be a sense that a major change is already underway.

For me, there is a difference between major change and a world shaking sense of a different type of reality unfolding.

For me, it goes something like this.  This is a feeling which may or may not end of corresponding with outer reality. 

Given everything that has happened already, I find that there is still a sense of "business as usual" and "life as usual" in what is often regarded as mainstream reality.  For people who see things differently, this mainstream reality is just a way to view the world, but for those who perceive themselves in that way, it is the world.  It is a sense of self.

It reminds me of phrases like: "We have a rule that we never free a mind once it has reached a certain age.  The mind has trouble letting go."

If I simply take a scientifically validated material view of the world, I am able to present a peer-reviewed case from people at well-known universities that humanity is engaging in behavior that is systematically degrading ecosystems upon which we seemingly depend for life and ongoing survival.

It seems that money and media and surface reality consciousness has made that set of possibilities a sideline which is apparently not a pressing issue.

At this point, for me to feel that a probable density/dimensional shift is underway, I do need a greater feeling of urgency.  Not just on a personal level, but on a societal level as well.  I imagine the the intensity of social, economic, and political events will be increased by a substantial amount.

It will no longer be a debate about the significance of what is happening.  It will be a question of "What the hell is going on here and what are we going to do about it?"  This will be a society wide sentiment that may be reflected at home, at work, and in the media.

At that point, it may be more apparent that a change of some sort is needed, but it will still be far from obvious to people in the so-called mainstream that a fundamental change of epic proportions is underway and may culminate in a profound, groundbreaking new sense of reality at both individual and societal levels within a relatively brief period of time.

7 (edited by Natural Mystic 2005-07-30 07:43:13)

Re: Terence Mckenna, Timewave Zero, and 2012

Yea I agree with you wandering.  But that may come sooner than we think!

For me my spiritual awakening has reached amazing speeds since 1-2 months ago, and shows NO SIGNS of slowing down.  It is phenomenal.  I'm loving every moment but at the same time I do have this sense of urgency on a grand scale.  My main "goals" in life aren't to gain money and get a degree.. but rather to gain knowledge and information.  The information to know the truth while the knowledge to set me free.  Its my one and only goal and if I can do that and prepare myself on a personal level for whats going to happen in 2-7 years I will be able to help other people.

Picture that dude in Mortal Kombat..

"It has begun!"

"Beyond the stars a new world awaits me now" - Wintersun

8 (edited by wandering1 2005-07-30 11:43:12)

Re: Terence Mckenna, Timewave Zero, and 2012

Natural Mystic wrote:

But that may come sooner than we think!


"It has begun!"

Oh, yes - I do see and feel that.  I think that we may see the transition in Oct-Nov of 2005 where the whole of society gets brought into the vortex of change in ways that become undeniable.

I'm thinking primarily here of economic changes that center on the United States and include the rest of the world.

My feeling is that 12 months from now we may have quite a different world than we have today - and many of these differences may be openly visible to the mainstream of society.

Events could unfold in ways other than this, of course, but this is my feeling now.

Re: Terence Mckenna, Timewave Zero, and 2012

wandering1 wrote:

Oh, yes - I do see and feel that.  I think that we may see the transition in Oct-Nov of 2005 where the whole of society gets brought into the vortex of change in ways that become undeniable.

I'm thinking primarily here of economic changes that center on the United States and include the rest of the world.

My feeling is that 12 months from now we may have quite a different world than we have today - and many of these differences may be openly visible to the mainstream of society.

Events could unfold in ways other than this, of course, but this is my feeling now.

You're more right then you imagine.  This is something that was "brought to my attention" I guess you could say in a "dream" I had about a week ago.  It wasn't really a dream, although it occurred when I was sleeping.  It was a conversation I was apparantly having with my higher self.  I was in my future self (not far off future, less than 2 years from now.)    It's hard to explain, because I was veiled from actually seeing anything.   There were no visuals - just me conversing with my higher self.  I had knowing that society and life as we know it right now was completely different.  But I didn't have details.   The only real detail I did get was that it was "less than a year and a half" from now.  So we're looking at probably 15, 16 months from now.   Fall / winter 2006, at the latest.

It's completely changed me.  The past week I see and feel and do everything differently.  When you know you have 15, 16 months before the ship turns upside down it changes your priorities.  Before that, I always highly suspected that things would change and get topsy turvy, but without any definitive confirmation it's easy to just drift along, not taking it seriously.   But when you know.....and you now have a time reference........then it becomes a different story.  I ran this all by someone I know who has abilities, half expecting - and seriously hoping - to hear that she didn't have the same feelings or impressions at all, and it's not how she sees things going.

Instead, she was like, "Yeah, you just confirmed what I already knew....."

AHH! I thought.  I tried to play it down, going "But you know, it's just a dream, it doesn't mean that...."    She cut me off.  "Carissa.  Come on."  big_smile

A couple of days after this "dream" I was leaving Barnes and Noble bookstore at about 11 a.m.  The sky was cloudy, the air warm and humid.  Cars and people around, but overall it was pretty quiet since it was midweek, during working hours.   Everything was very still and peaceful.   As I walked to my car I was just struck with how calm it all is now, and how quickly it's all going to change.  I don't know exactly what's going to go down, so I don't want to exaggerate anything and be an alarmist - it's just a feeling, a knowing.   I just see stuff differently now, that's the only thing I can say.

I didn't even really want to post this, because of a lot of reasons.   But it was relevant to this topic, and when I read what people were writing I was squirming inside.   I don't want to instill fear in anybody - don't have fear.   I don't.   But it doesn't hurt to be aware of this because it hopefully means that we won't waste our time and be complacent.   Make the most of whatever opportunities you have right now.  Do those things you want to do.  Appreciate every moment.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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Re: Terence Mckenna, Timewave Zero, and 2012

What I feel we need to do is; prepare our mind and soul. Spend much time with loved ones and love life for the beauty it holds. Do not be afraid it is what they feed on.  Unify your soul with love.

11 (edited by E3mpirical1 2005-07-31 09:59:36)

Re: Terence Mckenna, Timewave Zero, and 2012

Lyra that's interesting that you and your friend were able to confirm something. Thing is, why do you hope that your 'ability' friend did not have the same intuition as you? I think a better qestion would be what is it exactly that is going to change, I mean obviously the current way of life but rather change to 'what'. I have no fear of whatever happends. I may sound ignorant but I look forward to this time of 12-16 months from now.

12 (edited by lyra 2005-07-31 10:23:30)

Re: Terence Mckenna, Timewave Zero, and 2012

E3mpirical1 wrote:

Lyra that's interesting that you and your friend were able to confirm something. Thing is, why do you hope that your 'ability' friend did not have the same intuition as you?

Because what I felt / intuited from my own dream was that everything I'm doing now comes to a screeching halt as a result of the changes.   Here I am just getting going with things, getting on a roll, and it all comes to a grinding halt.   And that's what I was asking my higher self........"Why??  What was the point of doing any of it??"

The answer,

"The experience of it!"

Oh, I said in response, pondering it.  It made sense to me.  Okay, I can accept that.  And that was the end of the dream.

I'm still going to do the things I was planning to do though. For one, because the dream may not be accurate.  And also because...well.....even if it is true, like I was told, it's "the experience of it."  We take for granted that we still have years and years left to our lives, when in truth, any of us could die next week.  Tomorrow.  An hour from now.  It's not normally guaranteed anyway that we have all the time in the world and will get everything done that we want to get done.   So even if the dream doesn't end up coming to pass, which is what I hope happens, it's still a valuable lesson.....don't take your time for granted, make the most of every moment.   Don't go through life with the attitude that you have years and years.   In the Toltec practice they refer to it as "death is stalking you".  The true warrior knows this, and lives their lives accordingly.  I'm aware of it, but flounder on it all the time!  smile

E3mpirical1 wrote:

think a better qestion would be what is it exactly that is going to change, I mean obviously the current way of life but rather change to 'what'.

I don't know.  I don't have an answer to this.  Like I said, I was veiled from seeing / hearing anything, or getting any details.   And I think that was for a reason - freewill violations and all.   

I shouldn't have even posted anything about it at all actually.  I even had an ear ringing in my left ear when I was typing that post.  Shouldn't have done it......


E3mpirical1 wrote:

I have no fear of whatever happends. I may sound ignorant but I look forward to this time of 12-16 months from now.

I'm not saying you should have fear.  In fact, I specifically said several times in my post that people shouldn't have fear.

See, this is why I shouldn't have posted it..............

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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13 (edited by wandering1 2005-07-31 11:44:37)

Re: Terence Mckenna, Timewave Zero, and 2012

If the density shift theory is correct, from my understanding, as time passes, we move closer and closer to a 4th density set of possibilities.  Instreaming energies may make 4th density type living more and more possible.

"There is a quality to the instreaming energy in which service can be rendered without taking the form of the more measurable constants that have defined planetary service in the past."

This may allow us to step more fully into the possibilities of who we are.

What may be ending is our familiar 3rd density world.  There are ways to develop traction in this world, and I do see social, political, and economic turbulence rapidly changing the patterns that currently exist.

14

Re: Terence Mckenna, Timewave Zero, and 2012

lyra wrote:

You're more right then you imagine.  This is something that was "brought to my attention" I guess you could say in a "dream" I had about a week ago.  It wasn't really a dream, although it occurred when I was sleeping.  It was a conversation I was apparantly having with my higher self.  I was in my future self (not far off future, less than 2 years from now.)    It's hard to explain, because I was veiled from actually seeing anything.   There were no visuals - just me conversing with my higher self.  I had knowing that society and life as we know it right now was completely different.  But I didn't have details.   The only real detail I did get was that it was "less than a year and a half" from now.  So we're looking at probably 15, 16 months from now.   Fall / winter 2006, at the latest.

Hi Lyra, enjoyed your post.  I just finished reading a new Tobias channeling,  where it's predicted that the quantum leap would happen September 2007:

http://crimsoncircle.com/channelseries/ … t07-05.htm

Now, for all Shaumbra who are ready, we’re going to move to the next level. And, this is a good thing and an easy thing. For all Shaumbra who want to go on this next portion of the journey, as you know, we are fast approaching September 18, 2007, the quantum leap of human consciousness. That is why things seem to be so erratic and chaotic lately.

And, again we say that this is a blessed event. It is not the end of Earth. It is only the end of consciousness as you have known it. It is the beginning of the new times literally, the beginning of the New Energy way. So, things are shifting quite a bit right now.

Hmm, who knows?  I guess we will each experience this when we are ready.  Different probable timelines. Anyway, lots of other good stuff in that chenneling, I think.

15 (edited by lyra 2005-07-31 18:51:36)

Re: Terence Mckenna, Timewave Zero, and 2012

Jen wrote:

Hi Lyra, enjoyed your post.  I just finished reading a new Tobias channeling,  where it's predicted that the quantum leap would happen September 2007:

http://crimsoncircle.com/channelseries/ … t07-05.htm

Now, for all Shaumbra who are ready, we’re going to move to the next level. And, this is a good thing and an easy thing. For all Shaumbra who want to go on this next portion of the journey, as you know, we are fast approaching September 18, 2007, the quantum leap of human consciousness. That is why things seem to be so erratic and chaotic lately.

And, again we say that this is a blessed event. It is not the end of Earth. It is only the end of consciousness as you have known it. It is the beginning of the new times literally, the beginning of the New Energy way. So, things are shifting quite a bit right now.

Hmm, who knows?  I guess we will each experience this when we are ready.  Different probable timelines. Anyway, lots of other good stuff in that chenneling, I think.

Well, no offense, but that channeling sounds waaaay too New Agey for me.  The C's have pretty much ruined me for all other channeling.  Their responses, and the way they talked sounds pretty much identical to what my higher self sounds like, so for that reason I really can't read channeling that sounds all New agey and whatnot, using flowery, flakey language.   An example of how the C's and my higher self sound in relation to the bezillion questionable head-in-the-clouds channeling that's out there - the answer are short and to the point, and pack a punch in very few words. Friendly and empathetic, yet cool and levelheaded.   The answers may be short, but they're multi-layered - what's not being said is just as important as what is.  And there's some "read between the lines" as well.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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