Topic: Lies in the buddhist belief system

There is already a thread on Tibettan buddism but I would be curious to hear comments in particular on the lies, limitations and disinformation found in the buddhist belief system. It makes no doubt to me that it contains a higher level of truth than other religions, with ideas like dharma (everything has a cause), karma, reincarnations, etc. Christianity and Islam seem very simplistic and naive in comparison. However I see severe problems in some of the beliefs, especially on the overall metaphysical view. I do not say that this is necessarily what the Buddha originally taught -- it may have been much distorted like for what Jesus taught.

From what I've heard, Buddhists believe that only bad deeds (karma/sankaras) pass from life to life, and that the only thing worth doing in our life time is to clear them so that our next life may be better and less painful. This creates a worldview which seems completely absurd to me. What would be the point of the universe then? Endless suffering? (it doesn't seem different from the "philosophy" of the Passion of the Christ, where Jesus' acceptance of suffering is shown as "holy"). And what is supposed to happen when all past karma is cleared?

Another problem I see is that it makes serenity/peacefulness a goal in itself, rather than being a state of mind needed to deal with our particular reality, with our particular destiny. It seems many people who have interests in Buddhism mainly seek peace of mind, some kind of hedonism. I really don't believe that peace of mind is the only component of happiness. There needs to be also some kind of meaningful interaction with the world.

I may be wrong but it seems to consider suffering useless and to be eliminated, while I personnaly see suffering as a necessary factor for spiritual evolution, one without which we would have no reason to evolve. Through reincarnations, we pass our mistakes, but we also pass our unique understanding of the universe, and this is what the soul is made of (Buddhists don't believe in the soul).

Buddhism urges to observe reality as it is, yet it insists that any painful experience is necessarily due to "bad karma". It doesn't address the fact that the world is run by people who do not have our best interest in mind. It's true we are the only ones responsible for protecting ourselves from attacks of negative influences, and crying about our situation doesn't help, but the buddhist belief make people believe that anything bad which happens to them is only their fault, which I think is a dangerous point of view.

Finally the biggest problem I see, and it applies to all religions, is that it considers everyone to be the same, implying that the only thing worth doing is trying to become like Buddhas, because they have universal consciousness, while in my view, we all have an unique fragment of God/consciousness within us.

Anyway these are just my general feelings on the subject, I won't pretend to understand all this perfectly, but I would be interested to know what others think about this.

2

Re: Lies in the buddhist belief system

It seems to me, the best hedonism is freedom, and there would be no hedonism worth having other than the liberty, "you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."  Nevertheless, there are insights and studies, brilliance applied to life, because of immediate needs to understand emotion, meditation, words, and death.  The natural man, natural law, and manmade law, and the death of the world, all move us closer to the truth, while the past, and the future, are closing in, threatening the stability of the present Meditation, in whatever form.  Tibetan Buddhism, like Homer, empasizing the "gladness" of the "nirvanic", a philosophical system, implying birth (karma, "reincarnation"), and the moral dharma with supposedly the moral being: the mind?

Suffering, in the sense of Christ, is altogether to be distinguished from the Buddhic idea of liberation from the superficial.  The Christian idea, of Love, is an empathic identification with a mind to heal, from sin, the "world", hate, and one's sin.  I believe, the buddhic sense is a philosophical moral, in regard to achieving Buddhic planes, without necessarily believing there is any such Lord, or feeling any truths other than those philosophically imposed, via compassion.

Tell me what your thoughts are.

3 (edited by lyra 2004-04-25 09:26:45)

Re: Lies in the buddhist belief system

All mainstream religions are corrupted, that's for sure.   Some more than others.  I think the Buddhist religion, despite its flaws, still is the tamest in terms of corruption, as opposed to Catholicism and Islam. 

Here is an exerpt from the book "The Gods of Eden" by William Bramley concering Buddhism.  This book, in case somebody is unfamiliar with it, is a walk through history, tracing the path the secret "Brotherhood" societies throughout the ages, and their influence in shaping / manipulating world affairs, politics, war, religion and society in general.  The "Brotherhood", under different groups and different names, has made their way from Sumer, Babylon, Egypt, Rome, England and now the U.S and beyond.   


From pages 106 - 110:  (bracketed material is my own sidenote comments) 

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"Before its ultimate decay, the Indian maverick [religious] movement brought about one of the largest single religions in history:   Buddhism.  Founded around the year 525 BC, by an Indian prince named Gautama Siddharta, (who was later known as the "Buddha", or, "Enlightened One"), Buddhism spread rapidly throughout the Far East.   Like the Samkhya system, Buddhism in its original form did not worship the Vedic gods; it opposed the caste system and it did not support Brahmanical (advised Hindu) doctrines.   Unlike many modern Buddhists, early Buddhists did not worship Buddha as a god;  instead, they respected him as a thinker who had designed a method by which an individual, through his or her own efforts, might achieve spiritual freedom by way of knowledge and spiritual exercises.  [Sound familar?   Sounds like the original, uncorrupted version of Jesus to me.....]  It is difficult to determine how successful early Buddhists actually were in achieving their aims, although Siddharta did claim to have personally attained a state of spiritual liberation.

"Buddhism, like the other maverick systems, underwent a great deal fo change, splintering and decaying as the centuries progressed.   This caused the loss of most of Siddharta's true teachings.  [Jesus, anybody....?]   In addition, many teachings and practices not created by Buddha were later added to his religion and mislabled "Buddhism".   [HMMM!   Ring a bell??   Catholicism, and modern day Christianity anybody...)   A good example of this decay is found in the defination of "nirvana".   The word "nirvana" originally referred ot that state of existence in which the spirit has achieved full awareness of itself as a spiritual being and no longer experiences suffering due to misidentification with the material universe.   "Nirvana" is the state striven for by every Buddhist.   "Nirvana" has also been translated as "Nothingness" or the "void", horrible-sounding concepts which have come to imply to many people today that "nirvana" is a state of non-existance or that it involves a loss of contact with the physical universe.   In truth, its original maverick goal was to achieve quiet the opposite state.  Buddha's true state of "nirvana" included a stronger sense of existance, increased self-identity, and an ability to more accurately percieve the physical universe.

"Although Buddhism did not free the human race, it left the hope that freedom would one day come.   According to Buddhist legend, Gautama knew that he had not accomplished his goal of creating a religion that would bring out full spiritual liberation for all mankind.   He therefore promoted that a second "Buddha", or "Enlightened One" would arrive later in history to complete the task.   This promise constitutes the famous "Mettaya" ("Friend") prophecy which has become a very important element of modern Buddhist faith.   Because Buddhism did not originally express a belief in a Supreme Being, the Mettaya legend did not suggest a messenger or a teacher from "God."  Mettaya would simply be an individual with the knowledge and ability to get the job done.

"As time went on, the Mettaya prophecy decayed with the rest of Buddhism.   The legend was slowly absorbed into a very destructive doctrine beign spread by Brotherhood sources in the Middle Eat and elsewhere:  the doctrine of the "End of the World", also known by such dramatic names as the "Day of Judgement", the "Final Battle", "Armageddon," and others. 

"End of the world teachings have had a catastrophic effect on human society.  It is therefore of paramount importance to understand more about where, and why, these teachings began." 
--------

I love this book, and its yet another must read for anybody who is trying to get to the bottom of things regarding this reality, and the who's what's when's why's and how's of it all.   Bramley takes you on a ride throughout history, methodically making his way from ancient times to the present, and tracing the path of the Brotherhood, and its agenda.   It's well written, always interesting and well paced, and very informative.   Bramley isn't right about everything, and I don't agree with all of his conclusions, but, it's an excellent start.   I recommend reading "The Stargate Conspiracy" first though, so you can learn where to spot the conclusions / info. that Bramely gets wrong.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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Re: Lies in the buddhist belief system

lyra wrote:

early Buddhists did not worship Buddha as a god;  instead, they respected him as a thinker who had designed a method by which an individual, through his or her own efforts, might achieve spiritual freedom by way of knowledge and spiritual exercises.

This sounds like Vipassana meditation (www.dhamma.org). It lasts 10 days and the method is sound and consistent, without any kind of dogma. They claim that it's the only thing Gautama was teaching, back in the days. It's about learning to observe bodily sensations without reacting to them, but it's easier said than done and 10 days is the minimum needed to learn this properly. I can't recommend it enough.

However each evening there was a 1-hour lecture on Buddhist philosophy and, even though there was nothing about worshipping anyone, some of the things said were bothering me, felt false on a metaphysical level, which prompted me to start this thread.

5 (edited by lyra 2004-04-25 13:14:56)

Re: Lies in the buddhist belief system

Well, for me personally, I'm leary of all formal religions, and any group that's involved in teaching how to's regarding spirituality.  Groups that teach spirituality give me the same uncomfortable feeling / reaction you described, which is why I stay away.  I prefer to read and learn on my own, and then compare notes with a few select individuals.   Cuts out the "noise" and chance for corruption and interference, but, that's just me.    Everybody should do what works for them, ultimately.    What's interesting is that I've found when I'm left to my own devises, I intuitively know what to do, or know the answers and figure out techniques on my own...only to later find out that it's exactly what's being taught in formal settings.  I intuitively figure things out on my own, but, minus the corruption that leaks through in many group settings.    Which leads me to believe we all know the answers and know the way, if only we'd trust in that.  smile   I think most people when confronted with religious / spirituality concepts get a gut instinct about what's not right.  You just know.   It's all about sorting out the corrupted nonsense from the good stuff.  Always listen to that little voice that tries to get through the line....it knows best.  smile

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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Re: Lies in the buddhist belief system

Lyra Quoting Bramley wrote:

The word "nirvana" originally referred ot that state of existence in which the spirit has achieved full awareness of itself as a spiritual being and no longer experiences suffering due to misidentification with the material universe.   "Nirvana" is the state striven for by every Buddhist.   "Nirvana" has also been translated as "Nothingness" or the "void", horrible-sounding concepts which have come to imply to many people today that "nirvana" is a state of non-existance or that it involves a loss of contact with the physical universe.   In truth, its original maverick goal was to achieve quiet the opposite state.  Buddha's true state of "nirvana" included a stronger sense of existance, increased self-identity, and an ability to more accurately percieve the physical universe.

That's the major 'beef' I have with Buddhism - the idea of annihilating the self in a retrograde fashion instead of evolving it forward toward unity with some higher aspect of the Self. To me it's like carving an acorn into the shape of a tree rather than letting it grow into a tree. It's like reaching the finish line of a race by walking a few yards backwards instead of going through the lap.

Michael Topper discussed this same problem in a very insightful way. I don't have the book at the moment to quote from, but what Topper explained is that modern transcendental meditation seeks to dissolve the conscious mind into the subconscious, which is backwards and dangerous. Instead, proper form of meditation is bringing the subconscious upwards into contact with the conscious.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Lies in the buddhist belief system

If the physical body is but a vessel for the soul's voyage, the body and ego along with emotions is the ship and crew, the captain being the soul.  The captain owns all the charts, knows where the voyage started, and where it shall end.  The captain is then the only one who should be in charge.  The captain never changes but simply picks up a new ship and crew as needed. 

Most religions act like bad harbor masters.  They direct the ship into the teeth of a gale then tell the crew to lock the captain in his quarters.
While the crew talks to the harbor master, busily distracted by trying to keep the ship from floundering, the harbor master's bevy of pirates sneaks aboard and loots the treasure chest.

Re: Lies in the buddhist belief system

Soloflecks wrote:

If the physical body is but a vessel for the soul's voyage, the body and ego along with emotions is the ship and crew, the captain being the soul.  The captain owns all the charts, knows where the voyage started, and where it shall end.  The captain is then the only one who should be in charge.  The captain never changes but simply picks up a new ship and crew as needed. 

Most religions act like bad harbor masters.  They direct the ship into the teeth of a gale then tell the crew to lock the captain in his quarters.

While the crew talks to the harbor master, busily distracted by trying to keep the ship from floundering, the harbor master's bevy of pirates sneaks aboard and loots the treasure chest.


That's quite possibly the best analogy concerning the soul / body / emotions / ego and STS manipulation of all of it that I've ever read.  !!   Thanks for that.  It's worthy of remembering and passing along.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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9

Re: Lies in the buddhist belief system

There is a language spoken in the entire world, this is how truth is formed, i mean, through a language that only you know.  "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy."  Shakespeare  This is the language of transmutation.  By definition, Christ, viewed clairvoyantly, nirvanic gradients, is divine healing.  Religion, as far as I'm concerned is built upon sand, as the parable goes, and the parable is Christ.  wink 
God is a truth that must be viewed clairvoyantly, who "spoke the world into existence", and who is the substance of "faith", and the truth of Jesus Christ, who among the saints is a Lamb of God.  We are the same, we are no different,  because the spiritual and the Good are at the spiritual Poles, and not in angels.  It is Love that will overcome, and the moral is the Son of God, and Jesus is my Lord.  That is acceptable in the new Jerusalem, and let all men glorify God, for your sins are forgiven.  Only beware, for God views the hearts, as well as our deeds, according to Truth. 
So, in conclusion, all things are religious, only holy and spiritual, and true are Religion acceptable to God.  Have fun.

Matthew

10 (edited by lyra 2004-04-27 06:48:31)

Re: Lies in the buddhist belief system

??????????????????????????????????

I'm lost.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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Re: Lies in the buddhist belief system

Matthew,

Err...hmm...are you trying/hoping/wishing/praying to convert me?  I'm as lost as Lyra.  And I don't mean that metaphorically, for either of us.  I just can't follow what you are saying.

On a message board, especially, it's vital to speak as STRAIGHT as possible.  It's nearing impossible to get a "feel" for what someone is saying.

Clairvoyant I am not.

Warm regards,
Christine B
PS.  I post as Christine B. because I believe there is another Christine on the board...somewhere:)

12

Re: Lies in the buddhist belief system

Jesus is a man, by virtue of Angels, the Son of God.  Ecology is formed around the human, who gives names for all, in the world of separateness.   No man can see God, because He does not dwell with flesh.  Christ said in John:  "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God."  John 20:17 (The Son of God is the glory of the Unbegotten.)  (How we can know God is the 'circumcision of the heart', this is a religious designation for simply having a spirit that God requires.) 

The heart is the knowledge of Good and Evil, and the Spiritual War, that Paul wrote of.  The Son of Man has Overcome Evil, through the death, and resurrection of the Lamb.  By the Law (Torah) are no man justified in the sight of God, for all have sinned.  Christ becomes our righteousness, by the ministry of His Spirit, and fore-ordaining before the world began.  This is the parable: "And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them." (Galatians 3:12)  The new covenant, of prophecy, realizes faith, that the Son of God has Overcome all, and by virtue of being the Son of God, "who taketh away the sins of the world". 

The moral of faith is Son of God.  We are all embedded, even God, that is, Christ, the "second Adam", whom we Are.  Who humbled Himself to the point of death, even death on a cross; preached to some, foolishness, to them who believe, the power of God. smile

Re: Lies in the buddhist belief system

Thanks for posting this link, YE > but perhaps it should be in the links section?

After all, this is a thread about the "Buddhist Belief System".  smile  If you want to post a new topic on your Christian studies, I would be interested to hear more.

Re: Lies in the buddhist belief system

YesExistance, I do not really have a clue of what you're talking about but I hope that somebody here is benefiting from it smile

A thought just came to my mind: what do you think would be the effect of the buddhist paradigm on organic portals? Could it be complete surrender to the Matrix and its manipulators since, as I understand it, OP's do not have intution to guide them? Could this explain why there supposedly is darkness over Tibet?

15 (edited by SednaSphere 2004-04-27 16:15:09)

Re: Lies in the buddhist belief system

Wow, Ermolai, that's an incredible idea. If any meditator lacks knowledge of organic portals, that could be a trap. I stopped meditating the old ways after studying Buddism (albeit in a non-traditional format) for two years. I once saw a computer program of a 3D mandala some monks had done, and this was in the mid 90's.
Perhaps all major religions (not the true religion of the sincere heart ) have organic portals planted within in order to destroy and corrupt spiritual study for humans, so that they can herd us.