Astrology and the alien agenda (Page 1 of 3)

Hi elvisalpha    Alright, well, here's my thoughts since you asked......

I think it's a good theory.  It makes sense, if something wants to control us then what better way to do this then get us focused on something like astrology which in general tries so hard to tell us exactly how life is going to go, and how our personalities are supposed to be.   I suppose a result of that would be people who become predictable........as well as relying on external sources to show them the way.  "Tell me who I'm supposed to be!  Tell me what I should be doing!"   Some people, (usually women) are really hardcore into astrology, they won't do anything without consulting the star charts and figuring out what's where in the sky. 

I think though that like most things, astrology is a neutral tool.  It can be useful, or it can be a crutch, depending on how it's used.

I personally vouch for some aspects of astrology because for one thing, I've been able to guess people's sun / moon signs on several occasions based on close observation of their behavior / speech / mannerisms / personalities.  I have seen consistant personality traits within the signs.  So, I have my own personal proof for it.  Without my own proof though I wouldn't believe in it either.       SOMETHING is going on with astrology if I can, on mulitple occasions, guess what people are.   Not only that but.......I've had people accurately guess ME, which always blows me away.   So there has to be some validity to it.

As far as daily horoscopes and newspaper horoscopes.....ususally they're total crap.     You're right about that.   In general I would never recommend any mass market horoscope though, because they're just too vague and open for interpretation.   I want to see something SPECIFIC, tell me something with details, make me a believer!

Another related aspect of astrology is the Chinese zodiac, with the 12 different animals and their accompanying personality traits.   Again....I've seen that this consistantly pans out.   I have the personality for my year, Tiger.   I can't make my personality fit the description of any of the other animals.   The people I tend to get along with the best are those that are......suprisingly.....compatible with Tiger, (horse, dog, and on a lesser scale Dragon....)   Go figure!    It's not true across the board, but in general it's valid.  I don't know why or how though.  Who figured out this "12 year cycle" ??   Why is it 12 years?  What does it mean???  Why are there 12 Western zodiac signs and 12 Asian zodiac signs?   12, 12, 12...what does it mean??

I've read personality descriptions that combine various aspects of astrology, such as Sun / Moon signs, or traditional zodiac with the Chinese zodiac (for example, I'm "Scorpio Tiger"...)   and again, in general, they are usually pretty accurate.   

Something interesting:  In the past year or so all of a sudden "my mom" became a personal issue for me.  Just cropped up again out of nowhere, bugging the crap out of me.  (I don't have any relationship with her and don't want to...)   But there it was, rearing its ugly head.  I couldn't figure what the hell was going on.   Coincidentally, I found out two things:   I was at the age for my "Saturn Return", where Saturn was in the position it was when I was born, (Saturn takes 28 years for one solar revolution) and, Saturn was in Cancer when I was born which means, according to this one book I happened to accidentally stumble across......the big issue for me during my "Saturn Return" period at ages 28, 29 would be family, and my relationship with my mother.  The book said that for females born with Saturn in Cancer they usually have very tumultuous relationships with their mother and even often have to resort to cutting them out of their lives altogether, and this would become an issue during that time. 

Tell me THAT isn't a weird "coincidence" !

I could go on, but the point is, I've just found through my own skeptical research that there does seem to be validity to astrology, but don't ask me how or why.   I wanted to poo-poo it and not believe it, and set out with that skeptical mindset, but.....I had to go where the info. was leading me, which kind of surprised me because it's not what I wanted to see!   

Hi elvisalpha,

An excellent question, and nice to see someone thinking on their own, as always.  I'm in general agreement with Lyra on this one.  I don't know much about astrology, but have come across the concept from two unrelated sources involved in its study that (paraphrasing here) "it works ... don't ask why it works because that's a separate issue .. we don't necessarily know why it works ... we know that it does."  Which obviously leads to the question, well how did we learn to do it this way in the first place!?   

As Lyra also pointed out, the number 12 is a BIG one in esotericism.  To this day we still structure our processes in twelves .. time (months, hours), twelve grades in school, twelve-step programs and so forth.  The various solar deities and legends with their twelve helpers.

It's well understood that the moon cycles affect us, but not as well known that the other planetary bodies do in fact have strong gravitational effects on the earth as well.  I don't know much more about the details but the point being that by studying the combined effects of these things, it could very well be possible that there is some genuine insight to be had. 

I've listened to a couple of tapes by the French astrologer Louis Turi who cautions against the many books and theories out there that just talk about the sun signs and that's it.  There's a more intricate and detailed study of the "hidden zodiac" which supposedly can be used to reach better understandings.   I can't vouch for any of this but I mention it as it's something I personally might at least look into further.  That could all be bunk too, though. 

So, I think it's beyond doubt that there's a lot of nonsense out there, especially the mass-market stuff (mass-market ANYTHING for that matter), but there's quite probably something -- I don't know to what degree -- legitimate in the subject as well.     Best to keep an open mind about things we don't know for sure.. that's all I know.

Yes...good point.  All the focus is on the "sun sign", ie, which zodiac constellation was the sun in at the time a person was born, however, like you mentioned there's also the moon to consider, as well as other planetary influences.   The moon supposedly governs our emotional side....how we react emotionally to things.  I'm a Virgo moon....coincidentally, I'm emotionally "cool"...not very reactive (in person! forums don't count!), and not demonstrative with people, AT all.    Don't be all tryin' to hug me and stuff if I'm not dating you!   Get away!      Another part of it is whole "Rising Sign" thing....something I only just learned about over the past 2 years.  The rising sign is the zodiac constellation that was rising on the horizon or something like that at the time a person was born and (supposedly) has influence.   Specifically, it's the "face that we show the world", the aspect of our personality that we present when we interact with people.    Not only that, but during the course of a person's life they supposedly migrate from acting primarily like their Sun sign to being more like their rising sign as they get older.   

Sounds nuts, but again......I've gots my personal proof!     I'm "Scorpio Sun, Leo Rising"...when I was younger, I was very much a Scorpio.  As I've gotten older, I've found myself being more Leo.  I worked with a woman in Florida (an Aquarius) whom I got along with well.  She's WAY into astrology and was just SHOCKED to find out that I'm supposed to be a Scorpio.  She said "I would have guessed you to be a Leo.  You don't act like a Scorpio at all!!"  And she meant that as a compliment.       She went on to explain that she's had MANY bad experiences with Scorpio women....can be a nasty, messed up bunch when they're at their worst.   Also not very friendly often times and keep their distance and are always shooting that "suspicious" look at everybody, and plotting, and scheming....hehe        But she's always gotten along fabulously with Leo women, and just assumed I was a Leo, based on my personality.  So, again, go figure.....one more thing that matches up to what the astrologers say.  Who woulda thunk it??   

My big problem with astrology is not whether or not there's something to it (I think there probably is) but whether it's actually of any use or not, and can it even be quite harmful in some ways, particularly to the forming of new relationships.

What I've generally noticed about people who are really 'into' astrology is that they are quite judgemental about people, and often make their mind up about whether they are going to get on with someone even before they get to know them properly.

I saw this in Brazil when I was there last, one guy (who is actually a very cool person) who was quite into astrology, was finding out what everyone else's star sign was and then I remember having a conversation with him and he was saying something like "Well I'm probably not going to get on with that person because they're a <whatever sign> and I'm a <whatever sign> and those two signs don't get along etc...." and I'm thinking, "yeah whatever"

I found it interesting what Lyra said:

Obviously your friend has an aversion to Scorpios and I have to wonder if you would have got a long quite so well had she known you were a Scorpio from the first day you met, or would she have been far more suspicious of you? I guess we can only speculate.

I just think that's a truly terrible thing for anyone to say because it implants very judgemental ideas into peoples head that are probably not true at all. This is what I mean by astrology being potentially harmful. If people hear from a so-called expert astrologist that Scorpio women can be a nasty messed up bunch then that idea might stay with them for life, and everytime they meet a scorpio woman they'll have the thought in the back of their mind "Is this one of those nasty messed up Scorpio women I've been hearing about?" It just starts relationships off on the wrong-foot before they even get started.

There's been a couple of times in my life when I've considered learning about astrology properly. I've seen enough proof that there's probably something to it, and I've met a few people who are extremely good at 'guessing' peoples starsign and I've thought to myself "wow, I wish I could do that, I must learn this!" but then I've seen how judgemental it makes people and I've thought "Do I really need to learn this? Is my life going to be enhanced in any way?" And I've decided the answer is most likely NO!

Personally I would rather not known whether I'm supposed to get on with a certain starsign or not. Personally I would rather not know which star signs (if any) have a tendency to be nasty and messed up. There are always plenty of exceptions to the rule and so I would rather judge people as I see them, on their words and their actions and not on anything else. I'd rather not have preconceived ideas about people coloring my initial perceptions of them.

To me astrology just seems like unnecessary baggage, something I've become very glad that I don't have weighing me down.

Andy

I have definitely encountered this.....some people I knew 10 years ago were way into it, to the point where they would ask people what their astrological composition was before they'd even bother getting to know them.   If their astrology signs weren't "up to snuff" then forget them.   It was so stupid.   And if I'd gone by that same mindset, I wouldn't have become friends or dated half the people I have known.   As a "Scorpio" I'm "supposed to" only get along with Cancer, Pisces, and to a lesser degree the earth signs.    What I've actually found is that I gravitate towards fire and air signs..........go figure.    I tend to not like the over sensitive, emotionally heavy, almost mopey qualities of the many water signs I'm "supposed to" be compatible with.   It doesn't work for me.  So, so much for that, huh?    

"Truly terrible....."       Okay.   Well you can think that but it was said very much "tongue in cheek".   Obviously you didn't catch that.    For starters I *am* a Scorpio, and secondly, I was poking fun at not only what my coworker had to say about us, but what all the astrology books say about us Scorp types as well.   Astrology books paint a very negative picture of us.....let's cite what one book had to say for instance about me being Scorpio with Mars in Scorpio on top of it......"Homicidal maniac."    Homicidal maniac??       I mean, come ON!      I read that and laughed.   I can have a sense of humor about it.   Buuuuut..... I have to say that I have sometimes found that the bad Scorpio rap sometimes does actually match up.    I have discovered only after the fact that some of the most notoriously bad people I've ever known in life just so happened to be......Scorps.    An interesting coincidence I supposed.   But, I've known Scorps who are nothing at all like the stereotype.....so again, go figure.   The point of my story regarding my coworker is that there is more to us then just our "sun signs".

See....this is all very interesting.    This is what I tend to think too.   It's a sitution much like "What came first, the chicken or the egg?"    Are we born when we're born because it matches up with what are soul frequency is and therefore will be a tool to help us get done the things we plan to do, or, are we blank slates that are in turn "shaped" by our astrology?   I tend to think it's the first, that we choose the time and place of birth because it will be that tool.   

Secondly, you mentioned the constellation of stars being the same at death.   This is interesting to me because my grandmother was a Scorpio, born October 25, and she died in Scorpio......on my birthday.  Very interesting....!

i haven't come across any evidence that astrology has any scientific validity such as for example people with jupiter rising having better jobs. that goes for the western astrology, haven't seen any scientific studies into vedic astrology.
i wonder if there are situations when chinese or vedic astrology variaties predict something contrary or different then  western astrology about a person or situation. which system is right in that case, or are they all right?

maybe the focus on such symbol systems, can activate psychical awareness. so in that case it's NOT the astrology that's working, but the mind of the practitioner, stimulated by an awareness of the symbol system.

astrology is different from the i-ching, tea leaves, cloud gazing in that coincidence doens't play an important  role. the latter types might work through meaningful coincidence.

all these systems and more (for example channeling) can be abused for furthering judgemental attitudes, dependency, not thinking for yourself and so forth. they can also be used to enter a more magical and intuitive worldspace.

Yes, I also think it’s first mentioned. Like -you can’t push a cube through a round hole of same size. As similar thing I imagine the passage from 5th to 3rd density. You are only able to pass through if your soul frequency matches the actual vibration at the time of your birth which is “displayed"  through the astrological constellation.

Am I right in assuming that you suppose yourself to be your grandmother reincarnated? So, obviously she died exactly at the date of your birth?  Somehow my instincts tell me that it would be very unusual that a person reincarnates into the same family immediately again. Although I “know"  that persons meet ever and ever again through many lifetimes because of their karmical bonds. But, yes, why not...

It’s nearly impossible to be birthed again into the same configuration because of the different times the planets stay in a zodiac sign. i.e. Pluto changes every 12 years, the moon 3 days.
Lately an analogy regarding reincarnation came to my mind: Before birth (in 5th density) you make a sketch of the progression you want to achieve, of the lessons you want to learn. During your lifetime you fill this sketch with colour, making it a more or less perfect painting whether you stay on your destined path or not. After death you add this picture to a mosaic that consists of all your lifetimes, all painted in different colours and compositions. This, your personal and unique mosaic, now gives a bigger picture and fits perfectly into the infinite mosaic that is called Creation. Each being contributes its own unique style to this artwork. So, it wouldn’t make sense to paint the same stuff over and over again – aside the possibility you failed absolutely in walking your destined path – a possibility I heavily doubt.