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#1 2006-04-17 14:50:51

Lemniscate
Unfolding
Registered: 2006-01-13

Think About It . . .

What if you were to look at a singularity head on . . . it would be a point.
What if you were to take this point and enlarge it into a circle.
What if you were to take that circle, and twist it, once, forming an infinity sign, or "lemniscate".
What if you were to take that lemniscate and twist it several more times, would it not look like a strand of DNA?

This has most likely been presented before, but I thought it was interesting to think about...


Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)

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#2 2006-04-17 15:41:20

oceanchild
Member
Registered: 2005-04-10
Website

Re: Think About It . . .

ya - you can THINK about it ...

but what if ... 

there's a point -
and you enlarge that point into a circle -
then you have a centre point and perimeter ...
let's call everything between the point and the perimeter anything/everything we can think about - let's just call it thought ...

so ...
is there anything beyond the periphery ?
something beyond thought ? without any sort of border - meaning infiniti - not just as a sign or a symbol, but the thing itself - which you obviously can't name

obviously it's not really worth thinking about ... 'cause it lies beyond the reaches of thought ...

EDIT: heh ... sorry about the tone in this if it sounds 'talk-downish' - that's not what i'm intendin in the least ... i just saw this post and wanted to reply big_smile

Last edited by oceanchild (2006-04-17 15:43:26)


... checking out the mirror of relationship ...

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#3 2006-04-17 15:54:11

whywhywhy
????????
From: LA
Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: Think About It . . .

oceanchild wrote:

ya - you can THINK about it ...

but what if ... 

there's a point -
and you enlarge that point into a circle -
then you have a centre point and perimeter ...
let's call everything between the point and the perimeter anything/everything we can think about - let's just call it thought ...

so ...
is there anything beyond the periphery ?
something beyond thought ? without any sort of border - meaning infiniti - not just as a sign or a symbol, but the thing itself - which you obviously can't name

obviously it's not really worth thinking about ... 'cause it lies beyond the reaches of thought ...

EDIT: heh ... sorry about the tone in this if it sounds 'talk-downish' - that's not what i'm intendin in the least ... i just saw this post and wanted to reply big_smile

oceanchild,

I disagree with the statement I highlighted on your post.  The day you start thinking it is not worth thinking about it you become stagnant and your spiritual growth will flatten out.  Is better to think you can reach the areas outside the perimeter of the circle.  After all you took a point in space with no surface area and made it a circle.  If you can accomplish that feat then you can easily expand the circle to encompass the areas beyond the perimeter of the original circle.  Gaining knowledge is a never ending process.  Just a thought.

Lemmni,

This is similar to the discussion we had on mobius strips.  Here is the link:

http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=2925

Regards,

Lee

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#4 2006-04-17 16:54:47

Lemniscate
Unfolding
Registered: 2006-01-13

Re: Think About It . . .

whywhywhy wrote:

[Lemmni,

This is similar to the discussion we had on mobius strips.  Here is the link:

http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=2925

Regards,

Lee

Yes, I was thinking about that as I wrote that post. I shall never forget that discussion, for it was the one in which you inspired me with some profound thought regarding the mobius strip (intentionally or unintentionally, doesn't matter . . . you're a profound thinker).

Your response to oceanchild got me thinking as well.


Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)

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#5 2006-04-17 17:09:04

Lemniscate
Unfolding
Registered: 2006-01-13

Re: Think About It . . .

oceanchild wrote:

so ...
is there anything beyond the periphery ?
something beyond thought ? without any sort of border - meaning infiniti - not just as a sign or a symbol, but the thing itself - which you obviously can't name

obviously it's not really worth thinking about ... 'cause it lies beyond the reaches of thought ...

I think Lee said it best.

My thoughts:

If we're able to expand a point to a dimensional circle, that circle is dimensional only because it has an inner part AND an outer part, hence we can conceive of that which is beyond the boundary. We are, in fact, both part of the inside and outside of the circle, because we can "imagine" it. The only thing that limits our perception is our mind's desire to do so.
You could say that thought is the precursor to understanding. And, once you understand, you become that which you understand.

I hope I didn't step on any toes, Lee.


Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)

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#6 2006-04-17 20:39:21

tenetnosce
Another You
From: The Singularity
Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: Think About It . . .

Imagine that consciousness (let's call them "soul particles") were able to move in and out of the singularity, and the singularity functioned as a sort of charging mechanism. 

The boundaries of the circle. . or let's say a sphere, expands out with every "life" that is "born", or projected out, from the singularity.

So everything within the borders of the sphere constitutes the field of experience.

So now we've got an expanding sphere, with a soul charger in the middle.  The soul particles emerge from the center with a particular velocity depending on the amount of energy they have stored within them.

The soul particle is propelled out into the field of experience until the force of gravity sourced in the singularity overcomes the force of momentum, at which point the soul particle begins to "fall" back toward the center.

When the soul particle reaches the center it carries with it an amount of kinetic energy, or experience, that the singularity converts back to potential energy to be used during the next "incarnation" of the soul particle. 

So, each time the soul particle emerges from the center, it contains a greater and greater amount of energy, allowing it to gather more and more experience from a single lifetime.

Eventually, a soul particle will emerge from the singularity with enough energy to propel it all the way up to the border of the sphere.  It will be living on the "edge of experience" or, all that is known.

The border itself is like a membrane, and expands outward every time another soul particle comes into contact with it.  The membrane is what we call time.  Time appears to be moving forward for (expanding away from) us whether or not we are traveling toward the membrane, or away from the membrane, so long as we are still traveling within the sphere.

So here we all are with our faces pressed up against the membrane, and we've found ourselves in an interesting position.  Our potential energy is pushing us forward faster than the membrane is expanding as a whole. 

This creates a buildup of charge on the membrane.  This is the pressure we are feeling.  The desire to get out of the sphere.  What is on the other side of that membrane, anyway?  We want something new.  Everything within the sphere is old news.  Same shit, different day.  We have run out of experience.

This is the point where 4D negs come in.  They are pressed up on the other side of the membrane, for as much as we want to get out, they want to get in, and they are more than willing to cut us a deal. 

They are capable of opening a portal through the membrane, but cannot because it would be a violation of freewill to those living inside the sphere.  They need us to make a request for them to do so.  "Just ask for our assistance!  We're here to help you!"  They may sound as friendly as peaches in July, but they are not here to help us.  They are here to help themselves.

They are happy to assist in "making all the arrangements" and directing us in how to live our lives.  Teaching us what will "raise our vibrations" and help us "get to 4D".  It's all a bunch of crap.  It's all geared toward getting us to believe that we need them.  We don't need them to open the gates of heaven.   We don't want them to open the gates of heaven.  They are there for a purpose. 

And anybody who is counting on "making an exit" from 3D with "assistance" from the other side is in for a big surprise.   

We don't need to get to the other side.  The solution is to realize that we are already on the other side. 

Press your face up against the membrane, ask the negs to move aside, and you will see the solution.  You will see yourself.  Another you.  On the other side of the membrane.  Look at this other you and imagine that you can switch places with it.

See yourself there looking in.  Feel the membrance pushing it's way up toward you rather than you towards it.  You are on the other side of time.  On the other side of the 3D experience.  Now you are free to move about and look around.  Back away from the membrane, and watch time recede even as it continues to progress.  Turn around and look in the other direction.  What do you see?

Now turn back toward the membrane and see the other you pressed up against it looking out  Realize that you can go back.  Just the same way you came.  By going up to the membrane and transferring your consciousness back across the border.  Back into 3D.

Now here's an interesting question:  why would anybody want to do that?

Last edited by tenetnosce (2006-04-17 20:59:02)


It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.

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#7 2006-04-17 20:52:17

whywhywhy
????????
From: LA
Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: Think About It . . .

Tenetnosce,

Thta is a very interesting concept.  Well thought out.  Why do you want to go back to 3D?  Maybe you are an STO 4D entity that decides to go back to aid those in distress in 3D.....A true STO! 

Regards,

Lee

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#8 2006-04-17 22:31:55

tenetnosce
Another You
From: The Singularity
Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: Think About It . . .

whywhywhy wrote:

Tenetnosce,

Thta is a very interesting concept.  Well thought out.  Why do you want to go back to 3D?  Maybe you are an STO 4D entity that decides to go back to aid those in distress in 3D.....A true STO! 

Regards,

Lee

I think that's one possibility, yes.  To come back to help people remember that they, as well, exist on the other side. 

One may also return to continue their life here in 3D.  To take their clothes out of the dryer, or to meet their girlfriend for breakfast, perhaps.

And, of course, one may choose to come back because they wish to travel back to the singularity.


It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.

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#9 2006-04-17 23:02:37

Lemniscate
Unfolding
Registered: 2006-01-13

Re: Think About It . . .

Deep... intriguing . . .


Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)

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#10 2006-04-21 14:47:45

oceanchild
Member
Registered: 2005-04-10
Website

Re: Think About It . . .

i've been wanting to reply to this for a while - i think it touches on so many things, i wanted to throw my 2 cents in ...

WWW, Lemniscate - i read the link posted to the Mobius strip thread - interesting read - and related to what we're talking about ...

WWW - when i said that it's not worth thinking about inifinite - or what lies beyond the periphery of thought because thought can't reach it - i didn't mean that it's not worth examining, or investigating - i meant that i don't think thought - thinking - can take us beyond the periphery. that's what i've gathered from my own investigating - so now i want to explain why i think thought itself, is the limitting factor.


Lemniscate wrote:

If we're able to expand a point to a dimensional circle, that circle is dimensional only because it has an inner part AND an outer part,

right

Lemniscate wrote:

hence we can conceive of that which is beyond the boundary.

i think it is possible to have a relationship with what lies beyond the boundary - to be in contact, in communion with it - although that's a purely speculative statement that i'm making - because i don't have contact with that thing beyond the boundary of thought - (as far as i'm consciously aware of, anyways - and i want to get into the subject of conscious/subconscious later)

but like i said, what i'm saying is that i see thought as being limitted - as being the factor which stops us from reaching beyond the periphery - whether that periphery is of a circle of sphere or whatever. that's what i want to expand on ... why i think thought is limited.

to say that we can conceive of that which is beyond the boundary - that's just it - it's just our own conception, isn't it ?

Lemniscate wrote:

We are, in fact, both part of the inside and outside of the circle, because we can "imagine" it.

i agree that we're part of the inside - but what i'm saying is that to be part of the outside, to be in contact with it - maybe we need to examine the inside care-fully (i think the meaning of that word - the thing behind the word, gets lost to so many of us - how often do we give our total energy, our whole being, to doing something?) ...

you say, we are part of both sides because we can imagine it - but that our perception is limitted because of our minds' desire to do so ... i say, just because my mind can image something - does that make it real ? how can thought imagine infiniti, how can thought conceive something which is beyond itself ?

so i have to explain why i think infiniti is beyond thought, and why thought is limited.

look at fear. what is the root of fear ? are the root of all fears the same thing ? this is a serious question. there's physical fears, and psychological fears. Lots and lots of different types of fear. But maybe we have to be careful when we're talking about fear - wanting to preserve your life, to not put it in danger - like for example - there's a guy outside with a gun and you want to run away - that's not fear - that's you wanting to preserve your life ... but we do have fears ... some people have a fear of their spouse - lol - sounds funny, but it's true. i know about this situation in my own family. some people experience something bad - like maybe they have a car accident - and develop a fear of driving cars because of their bad memory and experience - (my dad doesn't drive 'cause he was in an accident when he was young) ... that kind of stuff ...

so back to the question - what is the root of ALL fears ? is it something common ? someone says - look - the root of it all is thought. Thought/Time.

what do i mean by time ? i mean psychological time - not chronological time.

so what's psychological time ? right now - there's this moment - which is a fact. It's real. But does tomorrow exist psychologically ? This is something worthwhile to look at carefully if it's never been considered or questioned before. I know it hit me hard when i thought about it saw what was there ... No - there's no such thing as tomorrow, psychologically - it's a thought - an idea - but it's not real.

If someone says - tomorrow I'll change, tomorrow I'll quit smoking, I'll be better, etc. - they are deceiving themselves. If you're aware of something that needs to be taken care of, a problem, a situation which needs to be dealt with - you'll do it as soon as you get the chance, right ? You will if you understand this thing about time - it's a way that our mind plays a trick on us - to say we'll look at it later, we'll deal with it later. 

So I'm saying that thought and (psycholgical) time are related. They're part of the same complex. They are also limitting - they limit us in this way.

and we say inifnite is something limitess ...

What about love ? This is again, a hard topic for me to talk about. For me to come on here and say, I know what love is - that's a little bit rediculous, maybe. But I know what love isn't.

I know love doesn't have anything to do with possession. Love doesn't cling to someone, and demand love back from that person. I understand at least that much.

I know love doesn't compare one to another and says, you are better, I love you, and you are worst, off with you. I know love doesn't judge in this way. Yet I also understand loving myself, which means I probably won't mix with people who are abusive to themselves, and to others ...

I know love doesn't have anything to do with hate, with anger, with jealousy. I understand that.

But what happens if we happen to be jealous ? or happen to be angry ? If we find those things within ourselves in a given moment, in our relationship with someone - with something - with life, with the world ? It happens, doesn't it ?. It's happened to me - maybe it's happened to you. So how can i go beyond those things ? Does my desire to be  good person - to say, I won't be jealous, or I won't be angry - does that change me, does that get rid of my anger or jealousy or whatever ?

Please - look at it for yourself and you'll see. To say that you can gradually change, by changing your thinking pattern, that you can change through time ... I'm not so sure at all if that's true. If I find myself jealous in a given moment in my relationship with someone - I recognize that feeling - that thing I call jealousy - and I don't like it - I want it to go away - I can move away from it - but it's still there. I can also bury it - but it's still there - it'll pop up again, one way or another. But what happens if I face it - if i look at it directly - without judgement - with condemning it or identifying with it? Without even naming it. Because what happens when I name something - I'm giving it continuance, right?

Someone said we all get bored with our 3D existence and want to move on. What happens if you face your boredom when it happens ? If you keep escaping it - it will always come back. But face it, sit with it when it comes up, and see what happens.

The same goes for pain - everything - all things that we experience, think, feel - maybe they're all gifts. Maybe they all lead to something else - but maybe they need to be faced in order to go to what lies beyond.

The point that's being stressed is learning to face yourself as you are - NOT imagining yourself as how you want to be. There is world of difference between the two.

There's still so much more that relates to this vast and open discussion.

I want to talk about images now. We tend to carry images of one another and or ourselves. We have experiences with other people, whether they're pleasant or not pleasant, and based on those experiences, we create and keep an image of someone - and the next time we meet that person - we're meeting them with that image from the past. Which means that our perception is distorted, right ?

and what about images we carry of ourselves ? Someone identifies him/herself with his/her job or his/her title or his/her religion or whatever and say, yes, I'm a healer, I'm a doctor, I'm the president and CEO, or I'm a Christian or a Wiccan or a Satanist or Hip-Hoppin G ... all that is the action of thought - thought separates (when i say thought, i'm including feeling in the what i call thought - it's my thought/feeling that thought & feeling go together) ... but back to identifying ourselves with an image - even though that image can change - what basis for truth does that image have ? An image is rather static, no ? That's what we think we are too, no ? We think we're something permanent. (I'm not saying we are or we're not) but we like the idea of permanence ... it's comforting ...

So let's say we have this image of ourselves, and we have an image of others, and so in our relation with each other - it's actually a relationship of one image with another image. Back to the question of love - how can there be any real contact between two people, any sort of real communion, if there's only a relationship between images ... ??????????

I know maybe I've veered a little off topic in this discussion - but these are some of the ways that I see thought as a limitting factor. This is why I think thought - something which limits us in so many ways - can have no relationship with something that has no limits.


... checking out the mirror of relationship ...

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#11 2006-04-21 17:21:50

Lemniscate
Unfolding
Registered: 2006-01-13

Re: Think About It . . .

oceanchild wrote:

so now i want to explain why i think thought itself, is the limitting factor.

When thought fails us, we must then use the heart.


Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)

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#12 2006-04-27 18:33:07

LightningEye
Seeker
From: Consciousness
Registered: 2006-04-27

Re: Think About It . . .

And if heart fails us?

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#13 2006-04-27 20:23:51

Pictus
Member
From: Brazil
Registered: 2006-02-11
Website

Re: Think About It . . .

We die! lol


Bye, Pictus

--------------------
http://pictus.co.nr

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