136 (edited by lyra 2005-10-23 11:32:02)

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

tenetnosce wrote:
Haven wrote:

Then Heaven is a place where only people who believe or do certain things go to, and if you don't believe or do the same thing, then you go to Hell.  Well, that's what the majority of people say.  I think I'll keep my matchbox when dealing with such a subjective subject.

Um, what specifically are you responding to?

Who knows.   It's Haven. roll   He's always whining about something.

(and before anybody jumps in thinking I'm soooo mean or harsh for saying that, then you probably missed the endless bickering back and forth between Haven and I in other threads, so, the context of why I'm saying what I'm saying is missing.)   

At any rate, thanks for reposting that tenetnosche.  wink  I do think it was a good post, because it does make good points.  I'm not exactly sure why the subject of whether Grays are 'good' or 'bad' is even still being debated in the world right now, and it's in my belief that anybody who believes that there is any bit of good going on in Grays is coming from a place of programming.  The media and the New Age movement have done a fantastic job of conditioning and programming the public for the past 30 years to accept the Grays as positive.   

I know, it's so absolute, so black and white.   !    But if nothing else, I ask that alien lovers and Gray supporters take from this thread this bit of advise:  Don't put out an intention to "make contact" with aliens because you can't control what comes through the open door.  There are higher, smarter, negative beings who WILL take advantage of your naive invite.   Just like astral travel is a bad idea unless you truly know what the hell you're doing, so is inviting aliens into your reality.  Again, you can't control who comes through the open door.  You may think you can, but you most likely can't.  So until you can. . . . which probably won't be in this lifetime or this density for many people. . . . it's probably best to just keep that door closed.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

137

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

Jen wrote:
lyra wrote:

sigh.   I'm actually annoyed right now, because I did read that post, and it was really, really good.

And my response to him wasn't, hm? Oh well...:P

???

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

138

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

lyra wrote:

Who knows.   It's Haven. roll   He's always whining about something.

(and before anybody jumps in thinking I'm soooo mean or harsh for saying that, then you probably missed the endless bickering back and forth between Haven and I in other threads, so, the context of why I'm saying what I'm saying is missing.)

http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic. … 98&p=4

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

139 (edited by Jen 2005-10-22 18:24:08)

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

lyra wrote:

I'm not exactly sure why the subject of whether Grays are 'good' or 'bad' is even still being debated in the world right now, and it's in my belief that anybody who believes that there is any bit of good going on in Grays is coming from a place of programming.  The media and the New Age movement have done a fantastic job of conditioning and programming the public for the past 30 years to accept the Grays as positive.

Well, that's a new one for me.  What are these media/New Age sources that are working so hard on getting us to accept the Grays as positive?
Personally, almost everyone I encounter is biased against them, and there is very little open discussion of the "abduction" phenomena, which only serves to make it more fearful for the average person. 

As for the rest of your post, it hasn't even occurred to me to put out an intention to make contact with the Grays.  I was having lunch with my son today though, discussing this, and he said he'd be interested in experiencing this, if only to prove to himself that it's actually going on (he's a bit of a skeptic).   If it did happen to him, I am confident that he's together enough to be able to handle it OK.  I like to think the same is true of me.

140

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

lyra wrote:
Jen wrote:
lyra wrote:

sigh.   I'm actually annoyed right now, because I did read that post, and it was really, really good.

And my response to him wasn't, hm? Oh well...:P

???

What, no cookie for me? yikes

141 (edited by lyra 2005-10-22 18:59:44)

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

Jen wrote:

Well, that's a new one for me.  What are these media/New Age sources that are working so hard on getting us to accept the Grays as positive?

Um, like, the entire 90's?  The entire 90s was one giant Pro-Gray media campaign, as already mentioned in the opening post of this thread.   The Grays became pop culture in the media / society.  (should have said "society" to be more specific and accurate, because it wasn't just the media, it was everywhere around us.)   So unless you were sleeping throughout the entire '90s or living in a cave, I'm not sure how this is supposedly "a new one" for you.

No offense.

And unfortunately, I admit that I don't know the names offhand of all the New Age sources I've come across over the course of the past 10 - 12 years who have portrayed Grays as positive, and something we should be inviting into our realities. But just because I can't tick off each and every one of them with a photographic memory doesn't mean they don't exist.  Go to a New Age shop's book selection.  You'll find them.




Jen wrote:

Personally, almost everyone I encounter is biased against them, and there is very little open discussion of the "abduction" phenomena, which only serves to make it more fearful for the average person.

That's good.    It means people are aware and are waking up.   IMO.   



Jen wrote:

As for the rest of your post, it hasn't even occurred to me to put out an intention to make contact with the Grays.

But who said I was referring to you specifically?  I wrote a post addressing everybody in general, and you've internalized that to mean you, Jen, personally?   How strange.



Jen wrote:

was having lunch with my son today though, discussing this, and he said he'd be interested in experiencing this, if only to prove to himself that it's actually going on (he's a bit of a skeptic).

...And that's pretty much the biggest mistake that anybody could make...and often do make.   As montalk has already illustrated.   He "asked for proof" when he was 11 years old, and woke up the next day with a brand spankin' new scar on his forhead, and who knows what else.   The second you invite them into your reality - whether it be for "proof" or whatever - then you've just given them permission.

People "ask for proof" out of skeptical ignorance and have NO idea what they're getting themselves into.



Jen wrote:

If it did happen to him, I am confident that he's together enough to be able to handle it OK.

Being a skeptic, as you've called him, says to me that he is NOT equipped to handle it.  If he doesn't even believe they're real, (which is fine, I have no problem with that, because the Grays actually are not reality for everybody;  not everybody is getting taken by them I believe)  then how in the frickity frack is he supposed to deal with them when they start walking through his walls, manifesting in his room out of nowhere, etc?

Just some thoughts.  Take it with a grain of salt.  But I will say this:   I absolutely, firmly, ADAMENTLY, stand strong in my beliefs about the Grays.  There is no debate out there I'm willing to listen to, and anybody who even tries to debate it with me is programmed IMO.   As harsh and "black and white" as that sounds.   I have read read read everything I could get my hands on about the matter, dating back to the age of 9, and am coming from a stance of originally thinking that aliens / UFO's / abductions were cool.   So I've seen both sides of the fence, and after all the evidence was gathered and after I grew up and got a grip, I realized that you know what......this isn't a good thing, people.   Wake up.

And before anybody complains about the one-sided nature of this thread - that was the point of it.   Debating Grays was never the point.   Presenting the other viewpoint was.   To reach those people out there who may still be deluded into thinking that Grays are good, and positive, and are "us in the future!" and need our DNA to "help them!!!" and whatever else all the books / literature / movies / media campaign have tried to push on us.   They most certainly are NOT us, and whatever we're being told is lies and half truths.   That was the point of this thread.   Pro-alien Pro-Gray people who want to believe good things about the Grays should probably go someplace else, or else start another thread, because this thread is not going to be for them!

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

142 (edited by Jen 2005-10-22 19:23:04)

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

lyra wrote:
Jen wrote:

Well, that's a new one for me.  What are these media/New Age sources that are working so hard on getting us to accept the Grays as positive?

lyra wrote:

Um, like, the entire 90's?  The entire 90s was one giant Pro-Gray media campaign, as already mentioned in the opening post of this thread.   The Grays became pop culture in the media / society.  (should have said "society" to be more specific and accurate, because it wasn't just the media, it was everywhere around us.)   So unless you were sleeping throughout the entire '90s or living in a cave, I'm not sure how this is supposedly "a new one" for you.

No offense.

And unfortunately, I admit that I don't know the names offhand of all the New Age sources I've come across over the course of the past 10 - 12 years who have portrayed Grays as positive, and something we should be inviting into our realities. But just because I can't tick off each and every one of them with a photographic memory doesn't mean they don't exist.  Go to a New Age shop's book selection.  You'll find them.

No offense, Lyra, but if you can't come up with at least five sources to back up your sweeping statement, then it is baseless. 




Jen wrote:

Personally, almost everyone I encounter is biased against them, and there is very little open discussion of the "abduction" phenomena, which only serves to make it more fearful for the average person.

Lyra wrote:

That's good.    It means people are aware and are waking up.   IMO.

Preconceived notions about anyone or anything, is never a sign of waking up.



Jen wrote:

As for the rest of your post, it hasn't even occurred to me to put out an intention to make contact with the Grays.

But who said I was referring to you specifically?  I wrote a post addressing everybody in general, and you've internalized that to mean you, Jen, personally?   How strange.

I know you were addressing everybody.  Does that mean I can't state my position on this?  I think it's strange that you think that's strange.

No comment on the rest of your post.

143 (edited by lyra 2005-10-22 20:46:39)

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

Jen wrote:

No comment on the rest of your post.

No problem!   wink 

Honestly, it doesn't matter to me what anybody thinks about my stance on Grays...or the way in which I present it.    And I'm not interested in debating the matter with people who want to support them, either with their own experiences, or by posting channelling excerpts by questionable sources who try to support Grays.  I'm just not interested in it.   It's weird, but I just have this total black and white stance on the matter, which is rare, because I'm usually about "shades of gray", no pun intended, with most things.   With most subjects I take a more reasonable approach.  But I'm so sure in what I "know" about this that I just don't think there can be a middle gray area.    When it comes to the Grays, I think the supporters are either programmed, or severely deluded and misguided.   They need to wake up, and soon.  But again, it's just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt.  If someone wants to start a "Hug the Grays!" thread, they're more than welcome to!  lol

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

144

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

Ayahuasca wrote:

I don't think I can think of anything less spiritual than having the mindset of seeing everyone as a potential enemy. Do you have a military background by any chance?

No.  That couldn't possibly be farther from the truth.

To think otherwise would make myself naive and gullible, wouldnt it?

Ayahuasca wrote:

No, it would probably make you a kinder, more loving, and less paranoid person.

I'm already quite kind and loving.  And paranoid is nothing more than a convenient label for people such as myself.  It's just a tool to make us more of outcasts to the rest of you.  A tool to further polarize.

Ayahuasca wrote:

Jesus said to "love your enemies", which is essentially the same as saying "Have no enemies". Good advice from that Jesus dude I'd say! wink

If it were essentially the same, I believe he would have just said it that way.  No, but instead, if he said anything he said to "love your enemies".  I already do.  And besides, I dont "have" enemies, they "have" me.  I don't choose enemies, they choose me.

This isnt a new concept I speak of, nor is it paranoid.  Its a necessary mindset to protect against the "red dresses" and other agents of the matrix.  There's a difference in being eternally skeptical, and being paranoid.

This is no time for the righteous
Only the wicked survive
Bake up a batch of the Yellow Cake
Bake up a batch of the lies
- - - - -[ Yellow Cake - Ministry - Rio Grande Blood (2006)

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

Ayahuasca wrote:

I don't think I can think of anything less spiritual than having the mindset of seeing everyone as a potential enemy. Do you have a military background by any chance?

Everyone you don't know IS a potential enemy though.  That doesn't mean you have to have any hatred in your heart for them; just be aware of the danger and prepare accordingly.

Here's an example to illustrate the point:  In 18th century North Carolina, the Christian preacher James Donahue was seen one summer day getting on his wagon armed with a brand new shotgun.  One of the local parishoners stopped him and asked "preacher, don't you believe it predestination?" 

The preacher replied "yes, I certainly do." 

So the parishioner asked "and don't you believe that whatever is supposed to happen WILL happen?"

The preacher answered "absolutely, God's will shall always be done."

Then the parishioner asked, "and isn't in true that we are all gonig to die when our time has come?"

And the preacher answered "yes, that is true, we all will pass on at the appointed hour."

A confused look came over the parishioner's face, who then asked the preacher "so why then are you carrying that shotgun?"

The preacher replied, "well, maybe along my way I'll run into an Indian whose time has come!"

big_smile

Yes, horrible, I know.

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

Montalk wrote:

Take the Summers material vs that of Lisette Larkins. All I can say is that the Allies of Humanity
(and all other material in that same category of 'majority of grays as devious hive') exposes all the holes in the
Larkins/Strieber paradigm but not vice versa.

http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic. … 583#p25583

Hi Montalk, I know you didn't specifically quote any of my post but your post that followed mine seems a commentary,
given that my post was in response to the Larkins material, contrasting it with The Allies Of Humanity by Summers,
and 'devious hive' is a quote per se, so I'm writing the following for clarity and expansion of my view. I see this as
more a dialogue than dialectic. smile

I agree, to continue to gather data whilst keeping an open mind is probably the best way to build a picture of the
likely scenario, and I continue to do this. Having started reading abduction-related material ten years ago with the
John Mack/Budd Hopkins stories, this coincided with my discovery of the net, since then I've researched as much
as I could, as you point out, the time factor is an important one. With the sheer volume of material available
these days, it's not possible to read *everything* that's written on the subject, in all books and forums etc.

If I were able to read it all, and found that 90% of it fell into the 'space brothers' category and 10% into the 'devious
hive' category, that still only means that the 'evidence' available to me, were I to play judge and jury based on that,
would indicate the greys are benign. My issue with the evidence is that it is sometimes mis/disinformation, and so
we then begin to look at the witnesses themselves. I don't *know* if Nightmare Hall exists under Dulce, I only know
how I feel about it if it does.

This is what I consider to be the true value of my realisations whilst I seek the truth, not whether I choose to believe
that which I do not know, based on the volume of evidence, but how I feel about what the witnesses tell me. In terms
of resonance, the intuition I have is that our vibrational frequencies may be like a kind of beacon, that attracts.
I clearly remember when I first began to read of abductions/greys, and having the strong sense that they would
appear, through the wall, and the main thing that I felt was fear. Was I sending them a message through my
attention/focus, giving away my position so to speak? My belief was that abduction meant being taken against
one's will, not the same as saying show yourselves to me or come and take me.

Like most, I have a constantly-evolving paradigm based on each new piece of data gleaned from all the various
sources, and to give an idea of which side of the fence I've been falling, when I think of how I currently feel about
the greys, if they were to come to take me for a ride, I feel my reponse would be like that of Stuie Wilde (a witness
whose testimony I've developed a respect for regarding the (to me) unseen world) reaching for the samurai sword.
I'm not sure what I should do until then, apart from being open-minded and vigilant in the search for reliable
witnesses. I think it's definitely too late if you invite them in without being sure of their intent, and this is not yet
a known. All that is known, is the volume of conflicting reports, which only create doubt, and for me bolster my
skepticism and the need for discernment through experience.

Everything in what we call creation is energy resonating at different frequencies.
The universe is a song...

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

I had to much to drink last night, I do not feel all that good this morning so perhaps because of that this thread really annoys me.

Abduction:  Good? or Bad?......Like Rett Butler said "Frankly my dear I don't give a damm!"

Aliens are just like human beings ......some are positive and others are negative.  Therefore, some abductions are meant to be positive and others are shall I say.....negative.

Can you control or stop them?  How the hell I know!  If they are so technologically advanced the answer more than likely will be NO.   If we can stop them by wishing them away then let's start wishing right now because like Tenetnosce stated earlier I damm sure do not want anybody sticking probes up my ass. ......even id they are well intentioned........PERIOD!

Mr. Alien go way Mr. Alien............................Leave me the hell alone Mr. Alien!

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

Hi Choice,

My post was in response to yours but since I had nothing to disagree with I just did a parallel write-up / follow-up of my approach to this subject.

Choice wrote:

With the sheer volume of material available these days, it's not possible to read *everything* that's written on the subject, in all books and forums etc

Right, we are on limited time and resources. I started reading UFO literature in 1992 and went through everything available at the local library, subscribed to a couple magazines, and read anything new and original that I could find and afford in the years since. I understand that not everyone has had that much time.

I did go through my "aliens are the coolest" phase for a couple years and become quite the fanatic, thanks to the various New Age space-brothers material and that of Strieber, Sitchin, and Mack. In the latter years I encountered the more realistic material and grew out of my naive mentality, which combined with my experiences and data crunching led to my current views that most recounted "positive" gray abductions are screens for something entirely opposite.

So for those who have no experiences of their own (that they remember) and are relatively new to UFO/abduction literature, any conclusion either way will seem premature. Nevertheless, much of the literature is redundant and you can get away with reading as little as ten really good books covering the spectrum of the debate and then be qualified to make some reasonable conclusions. So no, one doesn't have to read everything, just the few things that come most highly recommended.

Choice wrote:

If I were able to read it all, and found that 90% of it fell into the 'space brothers' category and 10% into the 'devious hive' category, that still only means that the 'evidence' available to me, were I to play judge and jury based on that, would indicate the greys are benign

Which is where critical thinking comes in. For the first couple years I never came across that 10% and so concluded aliens were benign. But once I did find the 10%, it made so much more sense and showed the flawed reasoning and selective denial of facts so common in the 90%. I really believe that with a mere ten books and enough time to think through it all, you can see which idea holds more water.

Choice wrote:

Was I sending them a message through my attention/focus, giving away my position so to speak? My belief was that abduction meant being taken against one's will, not the same as saying show yourselves to me or come and take me.

Constant fear is a frequency of vulnerability and powerlessness, so directing that towards aliens who require weak/willing subjects effectively draws them in. If fear creates weakness, then naive positivity creates willingness. The disinformation covers these two poles of the spectrum and everything in between. Strieber is a good mix of both.

If these aliens were benign, they wouldn't require fear or naivete as a prerequisite for contact. In comparison, STO encounters are far more meaningful, transparent, uplifting, informative, truthful, and have none of the fear or manipulative tactics employed by grays/reptilians/mantids/military. But if all one knows is the latter, then one can easily be fooled.

The term "abduction" in this case implies a subversion of freewill more so than outright violation. When you invite them, they do not respond immediately nor do they let you retain conscious memory of the encounter, so you don't exactly get what you ask for. And while abducted, they abuse their invitation by installing programming and implants that impair your judgment in the future, perhaps giving you false memories to make you think you had a wonderful encounter and beg for more. The situation is similar to cases of rape where the victim is plied with alcohol or drugs, or those rare cases where the victim is given a posthypnotic command to consent later when the trigger word is given.

It's not that I'm closed minded, it's just that I can point out fallacies and selective instance of denial in material riddled with them. There is some serious programming, hypnotic nonthinking, lack of discernment, and stockholm syndrome going on with the pro-grey groups.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

149

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

montalk wrote:

It's not that I'm closed minded, it's just that I can point out fallacies and selective instance of denial in material riddled with them. There is some serious programming, hypnotic nonthinking, lack of discernment, and stockholm syndrome going on with the pro-grey groups.

Hi montalk, it looks like I have been "tarred with that brush" here (pro-grey), but I am only trying to apply the metaphysical understandings I have gleaned from over 15 years of study.  As I recall, in the thread I initiated, Bashar on the Dark Side:  http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=2103 ,
you were in agreement with what he said, that "dark forces" (which would naturally include the less benevolent members of the Grays)  could only form connections with those who believed they had that power to do so.  In other words, as with any event, we only attract what we are vibrating.

Bashar, as you may be aware, has told us  he is a Zeta/human hybrid, speaking to us from the future.  Yet, you don't seem to dismiss what he has said.  How does that square with what seems to me to be your extreme wariness of the Grays in general?

150 (edited by montalk 2005-10-23 11:29:09)

Re: Everything You've Been Told About the "Grays" is Bunk

Jen wrote:

Bashar, as you may be aware, has told us  he is a Zeta/human hybrid, speaking to us from the future.  Yet, you don't seem to dismiss what he has said.  How does that square with what seems to me to be your extreme wariness of the Grays in general?

Mostly that there is a difference between an "individualized hybrid in the future" and "a cloned gray cybernetically operated by a reptilian entity." Abductees generally describe hybrids as friendly and curious but frail and emotionally detached, being more a product of the abduction program than ones actively carrying it out. If Bashar claimed to be identically one of Nancy's zetas, then that would not square at all. Also I agreed with that excerpt in isolation from the rest of the Bashar material.

Jen wrote:

Hi montalk, it looks like I have been "tarred with that brush" here (pro-grey), but I am only trying to apply the metaphysical understandings I have gleaned from over 15 years of study.

Actually no, what I had in mind was Strieber, Larkins, and Lieder. You and I differ more over the subtleties and what truths can be applied at what level, which is a product of experience and opinion and makes for good discussion...whereas Strieber and Larkins I suspect there is something sinister pulling their strings.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.