Where REAL emotions come from. (Page 2 of 2)

hello!

i love to write arrogant responses when gurdjieff is named so here goes!

Antaeus, in response to the first question of where REAL emotions come from, i think the best question you could ask yourself(s) within a g. paradigm is:

which "i" is manifesting the emotions within me that i feel right now, at this very moment in time?

from what i've experienced, the greatest contribution by g.i.g. was the idea that there are many many multiplural "i"'s within ourselves, moment by moment.  i believe that the denial of REAL emotions, at first, is to help one to buffer the impact of those emotions on our other centers until we can understand where the emotions are coming from and which of our "i"'s is the culprit.  while i agree with montauk about the cold, metallic result of some of the more academic g.i.g. schools (i.e. ouspensky), there are also teachings like The Movements that are designed to truly bring about genuine emotions and PASSIONS (titmouse) through a combination of music, thought, and movement.

i attended several of these retreats in several places and i have to say the feelings and clarity they evoke are stunning.  instead of becoming cold, i found myself crying, emotional and upset many many times.  each time this happened, my fellow Seekers reminded me one way or another to turn my gaze on myself and figure out "who" those emotions belonged to.  i discovered that there were many many "pulsars" and they all reacted differently in different experiential configurations.  i would say that strictly following the teachings written about "The Fourth Way" (ouspensky's phrasing) can be the most devastating impact on your higher emotional development.  if you look into the biographies of g.i.g. and his students (a great one is struggle of the magicians by william patterson, plus others), you may come to see that g.i.g himself was highly emotional!!  he raged at people all the time, he loved greatly, he lived large--drinking alcohol, coffee, and smoking quite a bit.  i think the main point was that these outward emotions were always proceeding from one Center within himself.  he decided to express those emotions to specifically generate counter-emotions in others to force them to see themselves as beings controlled by plural and lesser selves!!

so, every emotion you feel is real.  no one can convince you otherwise i hope!  the main thing is qualitatively differentiating is where that emotion comes from and in response to what external stimuli.  for me, g.i.g. has brought forth a font of internal revelations, but one must always remember that the main thing he would stress over and over again (see beelzebub's tales to his grandson):  never take anything he says as truth, one must continue to seek the truth in one's own life.

a complicated man and never to be understood from books entirely (he loathed books, personally, and only wrote them after his car accident when he knew he would not have time enough on earth to reach his goals in life).  i would encourage seekers to look for classes where one can experience the Movements or at least d/l some of his music composed with thomas deHartmann.  these were his highest accomplishments (he referred to himself as a teacher of dance, at his height) and should be delved before one gets too heady on the texts.  ouspensky can suck the life out of you, but has an amazing rational mind and the vocabulary you get to discuss and share ideas of your everyday life are invaluable!

in my own seeking, i have found that i can have higher glimpses of the higher functionings alluded to in the fourth way by ouspensky.  that is where this whole thought-geist fails for me.  there are shortcuts, but the key is always to REMEMBER what you learn there and the feelings that well up inside you.  my test is to see how long i can hold the "high" from getting stoned, LSD, DMT, etc.!!!

well, that wasn't so bad was it? 

peace,
pulsar