• montalk
  • montalk
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Re: War In Heaven

z3n3rg wrote:

Then you have the Destini series saying that the Invisible College is the group that ensures the secrets of the 'astral trap' remain secret.

I've thought of this "heaven" as something like 3.5 density instead of 4th.  But who knows.

That sounds like the best guess to me. The afterlife described in WiH is no different from 3D except minus the physical bodies. If densities are about states of consciousness, then the antagonistic, hierarchical, clannish, and retributive attitude of both the Theocrats and the Invisible College indicate they are keeping all their 3D vestments and therefore are most likely in a 3.5D state like you thought. That kind of a heaven sounds more like a simulacrum established on the astral plane, one of the other sub-octaves within 3D, to catch newly departed souls into an engineered illusion via two opposame choices of which side to join. Like choosing between Communists and Nazis, opposite in some ways but not really.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website

  • zenden
  • zenden
  • Synthesizing Analyst Proclaimed Barbarian
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  • From: The Athanor
  • Registered: 2005-01-20

Re: War In Heaven

Z3 said it first and then backed up by montalk and i think thats IT.  its a 3.5'er and i meant to say that and i always go round about, the goddam long way.  (it keeps me busy in the now since im always waiting for another now to happen--i know i know, so i miss both but create a 3rd, oh well).  i think that's exactly it.  its 3.5 with tricks and subterfuge.  and i shouldve said that and wanted to but failed to do so.  thank orange cloud for our brilliant friends that have it down well.  u have it there.  now, i dont know what to think about the destini group. i havent been over there in a long while.  and havent seen one video.  i do not like it either that the invisible college keeps its plans and mouth shut and i do say they dont help much in letting out secrets.  not sure that theyre in cahoots though with the enemy god crat camp.  best to believe all and nothing and stay aware and feel the way thru.

GNOTHI SEAUTON "Know Thyself!"
  • From: Brazil
  • Registered: 2006-02-11

Re: War In Heaven

3.5 Is a good definition, it is the near astral plane which is +- the same as earth
also very corrupted too, and will be cleaned by Christ energy I guess.

Bye, Pictus

--------------------
http://pictus.co.nr

Pictus's Website

  • Registered: 2005-10-15

Re: War In Heaven

Sorry in advance but I have a question.

Somewhat blindly, I have the belief in multiple densities.  For one, the Ra Material was my initial trigger to the fringe thought process.  Anyhow, my question is has anyone seen 4D?  I know that 3.5D is right around the corner but how do we know 4D even exists?  Is the only info we have on this topic channeled information; a faceless voice that can sound warming and sincere but such a 'evolved' entity holds a acute thought process compared to our (well, atleast my) perception from little ol' 3D Earth.

On another note, the theocrats along with loosh farming really hit home for me since the first time I read about this field of potential outcomes of our reality.  I wonder if there are seperate factions fighting for our loosh/light/energy.  The scary scenario that just occurred to me is if this reality is "as above, so below" then all of these factions are sinister, purposeful for a specific goal on the Earthly level as well as the 3.5D/Theocrat/Loosh factory level.  Is escape possible... someone hold me sad

  • Registered: 2006-03-29

Re: War In Heaven

Soulitude,

That's about it.  We don't know.  We have enough NDE stories to tell us that there is "white light", "heavens", and "hells".  Then there are books that hypnotize people to find out about the life between lives.  Then you have all the channeled stuff.  It's like an indian street bazaar with all these booths yelling "come buy your belief system here".

I stated in the destini thread that I was holding the (near 100%) belief that there was stuff beyond the astral and/or 4th density.  I took this one belief simply because it gives me an edge.  If I die tomorrow no entity can tell me "this is it".  If we do in fact lose a good portion of our memories from this life then I need some kind of core that I can imprint onto the energy body (astral body/4d body/whatever) that will ensure I'm not standing there like 'a hillbilly looking at differential equations'.  In other words, I want to be prepared for all contingencies.

Anyway, it just all brings me to the idea that I trully don't know and neither does anyone else.  It doesn't depress me as much as it makes me concentrate more on being all I can be and just hold the external stuff as possibilities.

Beyond the near belief that there are levels beyond the next, there is something else I hold that gives me an edge.  Something that I add to my fluid core of being.  And yes, it comes from the C's channeling.

C's:  Now, contemplate for a moment. Each soul is all powerful and can create or destroy all existence if know how. You and us and all others are interconnected by our mutual possession of all there is. You may create alternative universes if you wish and dwell within. You are all a duplicate of the universe within which you dwell. Your mind represents all that exists. It is "fun" to see how much you can access.

  • Registered: 2005-10-15

Re: War In Heaven

z3n3rg wrote:

Soulitude,

That's about it.  We don't know.  We have enough NDE stories to tell us that there is "white light", "heavens", and "hells".  Then there are books that hypnotize people to find out about the life between lives.  Then you have all the channeled stuff.  It's like an indian street bazaar with all these booths yelling "come buy your belief system here".

I stated in the destini thread that I was holding the (near 100%) belief that there was stuff beyond the astral and/or 4th density.  I took this one belief simply because it gives me an edge.  If I die tomorrow no entity can tell me "this is it".  If we do in fact lose a good portion of our memories from this life then I need some kind of core that I can imprint onto the energy body (astral body/4d body/whatever) that will ensure I'm not standing there like 'a hillbilly looking at differential equations'.  In other words, I want to be prepared for all contingencies.

Anyway, it just all brings me to the idea that I trully don't know and neither does anyone else.  It doesn't depress me as much as it makes me concentrate more on being all I can be and just hold the external stuff as possibilities.

Beyond the near belief that there are levels beyond the next, there is something else I hold that gives me an edge.  Something that I add to my fluid core of being.  And yes, it comes from the C's channeling.

C's:  Now, contemplate for a moment. Each soul is all powerful and can create or destroy all existence if know how. You and us and all others are interconnected by our mutual possession of all there is. You may create alternative universes if you wish and dwell within. You are all a duplicate of the universe within which you dwell. Your mind represents all that exists. It is "fun" to see how much you can access.

Hi z3n3rg

Good post and my beliefs are pretty much the same.  I also agree that one does have to form an ideal belief system that will aid us in the confusing portion of after-3D-death.  By the way, just wanted to say I always vibe with your posts/thoughts --- I have been practicing the visualization of superimposed perception of looking at things from the cellular level, atoms, 3rd person and worldly level that you talked about afew months (maybe even last year?) ago.

Ok... 'as above, so below' right;  Then is this a multidimensional corporation?  Who is the CEO?  Is the Earth under subpar management that needs to be replaced?  Are we workers or are we the product being manufactured (loosh)?  If we can escape, how can we define 'escaping' and which way to go?   This is a War in Heaven (3.5D), do we have a clear distinction of the sides... are there more than two factions?  Is there counter-intelligence agencies at the multidimensional level?  Are we soldiers or are we civilians?  Just some basic questions that, unfortunately, I have not even 1% information of... kinda sucks.

322 Reply by z3n3rg (edited by z3n3rg 2007-09-07 13:46:39)

  • Registered: 2006-03-29

Re: War In Heaven

Oh yea, the superimposed perception thingy.  Forgot about that.  This life just seems utterly pointless.  I can't help anyone except through words on the internet.  And sure, that's something but I'm so tired of being suppressed.  I want to do more but we're not allowed.  I even thought about jumping the next train to the other side because maybe I could do more to help there.  Just so stuck it's unbelievable.  We can talk all day about higher level stuff but the fact remains we are slaves.  We still have to go out with the mindless masses and work for soulless corporations to further some fat white guy's greed.  "They" know they better not shut the internet off because it's the only outlet some of us get.  And without it we would probably go ballistic.

We are the outsiders.  Even if we got good guys fighting for us on the other side we are still not privvy to anything.  The dark ones do everything in their power to ensure we get no viable information.  The majority of the normal people don't really like us that much.  We get none of the somewhat blissful ignorance of the masses and none of the deep level knowledge from the top.  We're the red headed step children.  I laugh because the situation is just so utterly ridiculous.  I'm not even allowed to know for sure what happened to me when I was a child.  I got some clues here and there but my memory is gone.  I mean I can't even know my own little itty bitty life.  This life, not where I was before.  How absurd is that?  I asked my mom and she doesn't have the memory of it either!  It's completely unsane.

During that small depression period I had a series of dreams about being in or around a Pool.  My dreams are always mundane so I try to read something into them.  I asked myself why am I dreaming about pools.  Then it hit me, Pool is a backwards Loop.  And I thought, yea, that's where I'm at.  Looping backwards.  So I was like screw it.  My 3d plan failed miserably with an obscene amount of negative coicindences that haven't stopped.  So I'll think of something else.  And that's what I'm working on now.  I'm currently working on tweaking my idea I call the C.T.R. method.  That is Create, Tranduce, and Release of highly refined energy (the highest I can manage) to the energy ball above my house that is available for any entity to use.  The idea doesn't infringe on anyone's freewill, it doesn't judge who should get the energy, it doesn't anticipate anything in return, and it's doing something since I can't do squat in 3d terms.

We have no real viable answers to those questions you have.  The only answer I can come up with is to come to terms with the fact we have no answers.  It's no fault of my own that all the alternative information out there contradicts each other.  And I'm not about to get into the ego-based belief system defending paradigm.  I've done that and it sucks.  So I'm an island.  Even amongst the alternative crowd we are alone.  Fine, so be it: I say.  I don't have a hobby because everything bores me to tears.  I'm here to do something and no entity in existence is going to stop me from doing something.  I'm pretty sure these vessels can create energy and with all these energy-sucking parasitic retards taking everything maybe I can add a little bit back into the mix.  I know I get refilled on energy every night.  And I've kinda concluded that giving the energy out in a non-judgemental way will replenish and clear the channel.  So, that's my silly little answer to myself.

If there's a war in heaven I'm not a soldier or civilian.  I'm a prisoner of war.  Living in a box, driving my box to a bigger box to sit in a box looking at an electronic box, to do the same thing over and over, so I can make enough colored trees to be able to continue living in boxes, and then coming back to my original box to store up energy so I can do it all over again.  Yippie!

  • From: Brazil
  • Registered: 2006-02-11

Re: War In Heaven

z3n3rg wrote:

We are the outsiders.  Even if we got good guys fighting for us on the other side we are still not privvy to anything.  The dark ones do everything in their power to ensure we get no viable information.  The majority of the normal people don't really like us that much.  We get none of the somewhat blissful ignorance of the masses and none of the deep level knowledge from the top.  We're the red headed step children.  I laugh because the situation is just so utterly ridiculous.

It is the best definition I ever read!
LOL here too...

Bye, Pictus

--------------------
http://pictus.co.nr

Pictus's Website

324 Reply by Tom Paine (edited by Tom Paine 2007-09-07 12:57:30)

  • Registered: 2004-10-26

Re: War In Heaven

Soulitude--welcome to the land of scary thoughts. 
We love company!

Z3--I'm with you, and by the way, very well said.

Pictus--I agree.  Z3 summed it up quite succinctly.

montalk--am I wrong or is this the first time you've
posted on this thread?  The IC aren't telling us the
whole story. 

zenden--Woman, you are one hell of an ENGINE
when you get started.  Whoa!  Talk about
Wheels of Fire!  I'm closing my blast-shield shutters
down a bit to just allow enough of your energy
in so I can look at it.
 
Otherwise I get BLOWN AWAY!!!

  • zenden
  • zenden
  • Synthesizing Analyst Proclaimed Barbarian
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  • From: The Athanor
  • Registered: 2005-01-20

Re: War In Heaven

i think ive got it sorta figured.  and it doesnt require 40 million run-on sentences, thats been done already.  now its to precepts and tenets, but of course, all the rigamarole had to be done, written about, and understood to get here.  consciousness requires life-force.  thats why it exists.  it is the energy.  it cxontains the energy and makes itself from it.  if everyone thinks there is a heaven, and a god, and that everybody goes there, then, it exists, because it can.  its a generalization of a micro going macro.  it makes itself occur.  It simply IS because it can, and "does."  as in it does what it wants and it exists because it wants to, and it can.  it depends on human thinking, and belief to exist.  it lives.  and its another f'in system.  based most likely on afterlife lies and deceit.  now, we can steer away from it by knowledge of this tenet, but it will exist anyway.  the point is to know and realize that.  which gives us options and choices by having knowledge. 

its a fear based expectation system.  i can see how clearly that can occur.  with no other options or alternatives known culturally, its automatic.  it gained strength from that.   the life source, we as humans, and particularly of/from earth, we give it essence, my god, us as the power source, ever feeding it.   it needs us, hence reincarnation--f'in bloody hamster wheel.  round and round.    im not sure how this happens next, to saints and the like and those famous that have gone before, but i think its possible that even they fell for it, sionce the pervasiveness of it is that thick.  they didnt even know because they had not the same awareness maybe as is possible now, altho that seems far-fetched.  i see how the church keeps it promulgated.  this is incredible.  in that there is failure to create, to create a way out or a difft direction.  its a construct, a thought construct and its made of strong steel and concrete.  amazing.  all by thought, belief and thinking.  talk about being asleep and waking up.  if i learned nothing more than this in application of the all the stuff/junk/crap ive investigated this, dear friends, has been "it."  just to know, to be aware of, that the death to heaven scenario requires consciousness to occur.  its just like the whOREship scenario.  same damn thing.  keep worshipping something and it grows, it gets stronger, it becomes bigger, mightier, it IS then.  as a consequence of those human actions/emotions/thoughts.  this is then programmed in and re-programmed.  it depends on that programming, and not memeories, instead.  if one remembered they wiped the hardrive, then we'd do something difft then, make plans, have choices.  each next time around.  get wiser maybe.  be ahead of the 'game.' see, this is getting clearer.  and the echoes of the C's.  were on our own, always have been.  no help,.  thats what keeps ppl stuck, souls stuck in the samsara.  if we were the true creators (which we are) then wed create a new scenario.  doubting that one can DO that is the weakness, the limitation.  aha.

GNOTHI SEAUTON "Know Thyself!"

326 Reply by Antaeus (edited by Antaeus 2007-09-09 16:04:01)

  • Registered: 2007-07-06

Re: War In Heaven

I like that Zenden, it felt right to me.  Many people talk about an external God.  I have no problem with that.  However, we each have a transcendant One, Spirit, Dhyani Buddha...and there is the aggragate which is a feeble reflection of it, consisting of the brain, desire, life force, astral body, physical body in which our spirit tries to express itself through. 

We who seem sovereign seers of our existence on this physical plane,  should concentrate on becoming, rather than 'being' and would likely be a more suitable vessel and therefore more able to have our own Spirit express through ourselves.

The desires of my self and my ignorance conflict often with my going the right Way, i know this and want to raise up to follow the Law.  Everytime an intense anger arises in me from some incident, at least now there is a part of me off to the side watching this, and it barely has the power to contain me, but it does and in time I transform it to a warming flame.

Fear often keeps me from acting when I should probably be taking an action.  This fear probably is a compensating measure for the immensity of my ignorance guaranteeing that whatever action I did take would be error.

Man is a pilgrim, Child of the Universe, who at times is blinded by Maha-maya or the Great Illusion of cosmic existence.  No worries mate! there is the Dharma!

Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement.
----------------------------------------------------------
You have to believe in the impossible in order to become.

327 Reply by PhiConcept

  • PhiConcept
  • Guest

Re: War In Heaven

to: zenden

I've read an article concerning the new age (You Create Your Own Reality 'YCYOR') methods that are quite deceptive when free will isn't taken under consideration.  It seems to me that you've described your 'enlightenment' as something that can be related to the new age 'enlightenment'.

If you haven't got the chance to read it here is the link:
http://montalk.net/metaphys/68/true-rea … ion-part-i

I must say that Montalk has a very good understanding of the whole concept and knows the similiarities of truth vs. new age deception.

Peace, PhiConcept.

  • From: somewhere over the rainbow
  • Registered: 2006-07-24

Re: War In Heaven

a few words from the peanut gallery…

z3n3rg wrote:

This life just seems utterly pointless.  I can't help anyone except through words on the internet.  And sure, that's something but I'm so tired of being suppressed.  I want to do more but we're not allowed.  I even thought about jumping the next train to the other side because maybe I could do more to help there.  Just so stuck it's unbelievable.  We can talk all day about higher level stuff but the fact remains we are slaves.  We still have to go out with the mindless masses and work for soulless corporations to further some fat white guy's greed.  "They" know they better not shut the internet off because it's the only outlet some of us get.  And without it we would probably go ballistic.

That's a pretty major something, z3n.  You ARE making a difference.  Right here, right now.  (Sounds like you could use a little reminder).

If there's a war in heaven I'm not a soldier or civilian.  I'm a prisoner of war.  Living in a box, driving my box to a bigger box to sit in a box looking at an electronic box, to do the same thing over and over, so I can make enough colored trees to be able to continue living in boxes, and then coming back to my original box to store up energy so I can do it all over again.  Yippie!

That oughtta be on a t-shirt, or maybe bumper sticker.

===============

I felt like adding this a few posts back, just didn’t get around to it until now…

The Who – Won’t Get Fooled Again

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the foe, that' all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
No, no!

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
For I know that the hypnotized never lie

Do ya?

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

Fare Thee Well

http://www.westegg.com/einstein/

329 Reply by z3n3rg (edited by z3n3rg 2007-09-10 00:20:44)

  • Registered: 2006-03-29

Re: War In Heaven

Thanks lilmomma.  I'm out of that mental state now.  Sometimes the pressure of being held down in the physical just makes me want to explode in every direction at once.  It also shows the gap that we have to live with every moment.  I can't ignore what is in front of me because it doesn't seem appropriate to ignore any aspect of creation.  I still hold to the concept of fully integrated honesty no matter how frustrating it gets sometimes.

Whenever I think about the 'prisoner of war' idea, the old pink floyd song comes to mind...wish you were here...

And did they get you trade your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees? Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change? And did you exchange
a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?

330 Reply by zenden (edited by zenden 2007-09-10 12:17:41)

  • zenden
  • zenden
  • Synthesizing Analyst Proclaimed Barbarian
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  • From: The Athanor
  • Registered: 2005-01-20

Re: War In Heaven

LILMOMMA!!!! good to see u babe.  i been vibin you.  since saturday.  and great Z3, ever the seeker himself, and love the caption up there on being a POW with his wonderful emotions, statements, fweelings which i jive with.  and Antaeus, i agree with you. too.  and i loved what u said recently and 2 pages back on this thread.  now, to PhiConcept.  assumptions?  is that the case?  i'll say this... from pg 2 of the montalk article u directed me to.  "We are conditioned to accept that the past is written in stone, and are divided over whether the future is fated, or if it is open. In truth, it is open because we have freewill to change it, or rather, choose which future we manifest by our actions and metaphysical influences."  we change the future of heaven?  possibly if one believes theyre a creator god.  is that new age?  does that sound new agey to you?  the first quote is one of montalk's explanations for the correct use of freewill.  "from metaphysical influences one has experienced."  and ive had many.  still new agey?  then thats the problem with semantics and the written word.  and ..."In actuality, the liquidity of the future is exactly the same as liquidity of the past. Causality only applies within timelines, and can be thrown out the window if you move between timelines and have your memories (and anything that records the past) rearranged in the process."  have ur memeories.  would be nice.  more new agey?  exactly the opposite, these r direct quotes from that montalk article u directed me to.  here's another from the same article page 2 "Choosing, the core process engendered by freewill, is necessary to complete learning lessons in life. With choice denied, freewill is violated, and a lesson is delayed indefinitely."  exactly what i said and believe in.  the crats bar free choice, have altered the use of metamorphasis. 

my enlightenment as u call it, aint new.  and it just means the use of knowledge to possibly spread to other ppl.  using the self as a light.  as a beacon.  sharing insights, discoveries, concepts, finds.  only to help others out of traps.  is that YCYOR?  maybe.  all kinds of elements  go into it, not tenets from one camp.  and it cant be boxed as coming from one camp or another.  its synergized.  blended, from many many sources.  the YCYOR thing must include free will.  not an IMPOSED will.  i didnt create this reality and ill be damned if im gonna go to another one that somebody else created.  not again, when i cant stand the crap thats in this one.  didnt create alot in this one, thats for sure.  only make the small circle i cant control fairly pleasant, despite everybody else's 'reality' in my vicinity.  certainly dont approve of the many many things i see that others have insisted upon and CREATED, much to the chagrin of some of us.  one always takes a risk when they say "i have it figured out" or "i think ive got it"  and esp if it is in complete opposition to old programming.  and church doctrine, et AL.  im saying to pay attention to that which is other THAN group concsiousness which has already been created.  by others and imposes a dominating YOUR REALITY HAS BEEN CREATED FOR YOU.  thats what im saying.  thats what im opposed to.  i had no idea as a younger person that heaven COULD even be fraudulent and not the all end all.   i still dont know what the all and end all IS.  and its been "enlightening" to see that.  if one uses freewill, discovery and acknowledges and applies the possibility that indeed, heaven is a fraud, then one can, using freewill--AVOID it.  these ideas support the very tenets from montalk's article.

i have no idea what to create instead, dont even know it can be done or what to do, in detail.  im talking possibilities with what to do with the knowledge or awareness that heaven is a fraud and all gods r imposters.  is that new agey?  well, then, thats a label and if it fits, then wear it?  NO babies get thrown out and all bathwater is siphoned and filtered and saved, for hard times.  ***had to come back in and edit this post, could say alot more, but wont, and cant.  right mouse key doesnt work so cant cut and paste here from work.  the definition of enlightenment IS one point to be made.

GNOTHI SEAUTON "Know Thyself!"