"Revelations of the Insider" - revisited (Page 4 of 12)

Greetings, all. This is my first posting here. I've only just read the Insider quotes - seems the topic drifted a bit, but that's fine, it's all about figuring out "reality", eh?

Before commenting on any of the phenomena that appear to be of great interest here, I wonder if the cause of liberation might not be better served by first examining the terms that are commonly used but not defined. Attempting to reach ultimate reality using words is rather like carrying water in a net bag, isn't it? (It can be done, btw, but only when the water's frozen.)

To take a key example, is it necessarily true that individual selves ultimately exist, i.e., from every possible perspective? As illusions go, the perception of individual selfhood is surely the most persistent, the one that we not only do not question, but hope to prolong by all means possible.

Rather than asking what happens to "you" after death, how about, for ex.: Was I ever born? Will I ever die? We are accustomed to identifying with the body-mind, rather than with what gave rise to it, beyond time & space. The "self" we are taught we are is a collection of memories & habits; like everything else that can be perceived, it's temporary. If you lose your memory, do you cease to exist? Isn't that consciousness sans memory identical to all the "other selves out there"? We could just as easily say instead of there being perceivers & objects of perception, there is just "perceiving".

We question the Matrix, but not the ultimate existence of Neo or any other characters inhabiting the Matrix (though I notice it is common here to make distinctions between different classes of beings). Wouldn't it be ironic if a stranger mistook YOU for a non-souled being, based on a fleeting glimpse of you when your mind is miles away? I suppose you could make a special effort to "stand out" at all times, but wouldn't that get tiring?

Suppose the mystic experience is the most accurate: that there is at most One Self in existence. It would simplify things quite a bit, wouldn't it? You might not be so hung up on phenomena, realizing that you are the world you perceive, the creator of your prison, if you will (to echo kinsei's insight).

Maybe none of this is news to you, but I sense that people are making liberation unnecessarily complex and dramatic here. From my POV, the higher you go, the simpler it gets, in that concepts become increasingly superfluous. Look at the most enlightened people you know of; notice that they never get caught up in "space opera". In the end, there's nothing left to say but, "All is well."

Beautiful words indeed, kensei.  Interesting that you use the analogy of "fixing up" the place you're inhabiting, as this has been on my mind in the 3d world I inhabit.

You see, I hate the house I'm living in, and I"ve been letting it go to seed because I want to move someplace else.  But I want to wait, because of a few external factors, and also because I feel the time isn't right-- IOW, perhaps the place I really want isn't available yet, and if I let myself move because of what I *don't* want, I may just run away and settle for someplace else that's sub-par.  So then I got to thinking, what would make me think i"d be happier anyplace else if I can't even make the most of what I currently have?  So my task lately has been to do just that.  It's just an exercise in will, I realize, but I see deeper implications in it, as there are so many people who are constantly on the run, looking for something better.

Perhaps I see our current situation as a whole like that, whether we're talking about escaping the matrix, ascending to a higher realm, etc.  If we don't "clean up" wherever we are, how will we take care of the place where we're going? 

Another housiing analogy-- there was a government initiative in my city years ago to give disadvantaged people a better shot at improving their lives.  The idea was, if all government housing was in the poor areas of town, they would be constantly surrounded by poverty, and would never get out of it.  So, much to the consternation of the rich people in town, they built several projects in one of the wealthy areas.  I was very much for this at the time, and got angry at the snobby, elitist  people who complained that this would bring crime to their area and devalue their homes.  Unfortunately, guess what happened.  That pocket of town is now referred to as "the War Zone," and it's a growing area of poverty and crime.  The nice housing developments they provided are now just as dilapidated as the others, and gang activity is soaring. 

So this is what would happen if people who were not ready either "escaped" or ascended (whichever model you choose) before they were ready to take care of 3D.  It took me a long time to accept this seemingly unfair idea, but I think it rings true.

I don't have all the answers here, and probably can give you only partial ideas on how to get where you wish to go, but I DO think I have an important part to share.   So  I hope this sheds some light one the whole thing.

First off, let's go over some things.    You are correct (and also others have stated this in this thread) that after you die you are still inside the Matrix.   I've run across this in "Soul Travel" books plus a few other places.   The whole idea is when we die we go to the astral plane, and there are like 100 different levels to this plane.   The lower levels are where Monroe ( I read all his books) would encounter all those slimely things that would stick to him and sometimes other areas that were not too much fun. 

The middle levels are nice and so forth and the higher astral levels are very fantastic, and can be enlightening to STO beings.   There are temples, and learning centers, and other great places to go and visit to enhance your spiritual growth.    The astral plane is one vibrational level.   The next plane up I think is called the causal plane, which has it's own levels.. and so forth, just like the astral.   Then the next plane up, which again is at a higher vibrational level, is the mental plane.   At the top of the mental plane is the.... the end of the Matrix!

Then you have the big grand divide as I think it's called, which is what Don Juan told Carlos about and is called the "Soul Plane" (DJ called it the "unknowable" and he said that because this plane really is beyound the mind, since it is above the mental plane).

Please bear with me here, it would take pages to explain all this, so I'm giving you a rough outline.   The whole idea to get outside the Matrix is to get to the soul plane.  Once there a soul does not have to return or reincarnate again.

In Monroe's books at some point, from what I can tell, he switches over from astral travel (which is limited to only the astral plane) to soul travel, with the help of his inspec friends.    So Monroe never mentioned this, I have no idea why he never brought up the term soul travel, but I guess we'll never find out.   I do think he achieved this state of traveling in the out-of-body areas he would go to.

So to leave the Matrix once and for all, I would recommend looking into soul travel, since that seems to be the way to do it.    Also, I would imagine this is only ONE WAY, to get it done, there are probabaly others, so don't hold me to this one method.   

The only point I wanted to make is that, we are inside the Matrix all the way up the the highest part of mental plane, then when we cross over ( or graduate) we find oursevles beyond, all our past bodies, and emotions and even the mind and we're pure soul.

So I've read all the CC books, and also all the Monroe books, and also had some experience in Eckankar, and ran across all this.

You ask good questions.   I can imagine you have 100 questions to ask about this to explain everything further and it will be tough for me.    So there is a way out of this Matrix, learning soul travel could be the key.   I believe your HS could answer all these questions than I could, so if you have a chance you use your pendulum ask it if soul travel is the way out, and try to figure out a few more ways and see what type of answers you get.

OK... that's it for now.

PH

Me too.  I have a journal I recently started up, more like a log book actually to document my dreams, number sightings, synchs, ear ringings and so on, and random musings ;)  but the opening entry I start out addressing the biggest problem that I, and probably many others face.....What is the point of all these attempts to better myself when I don't even know where my destination is??   If I don't know where I'm going, then where's my motivation to get there??  There are people who are shooting for 4th density, or however they want to label it....that's not enough for me.  It doesn't feel right.  I want out of the trap, but I don't know where "out" is.  Several people so far have mentioned how messed up it is that we incarnate here and completely forget everything we learned in our previous incarnations, and have to keep starting all.....over......again.    And again and again and again.  I was lamenting this very thing myself recently, to the point of feeling alarmed and slight hysterical about it actually, so it was nice to see that others are feeling the same thing.

But due to this thread I have more direction now, something in mind to shoot for.   For starters, one of my newfound goals will be to shoot for ultimate awareness at all times.  It's hard, but it can be done with willpower.  I have lots of awareness, due to my waking mindset and the fact that I have vivid dreams....but apparently it's not enough.  How do I know this?  Because it all falls apart the second I go to sleep, like Lipstick Mystic was mentioning earlier in this thread.  I may have frequent vivid dreams and decent dream recall, but I rarely have lucid experiences.  There have been a few, as well as times when I became aware that something was hijacking my sleep state and so was able to throw on the brakes and screech the whole sordid nocturnal debacle to a grinding halt.  But, it's a rare thing.  Like most people I forget myself in the dream state and bounce along, oblivious.

Well, that's not gonna fly when I find myself dead and out of my body and being automatically herded around or recycled.  After that experience I relayed on the first page of this thread where I was arguing with "something" about how I DON'T want to come back here anymore....I now realize...I really don't want to come back.  There has to be other places to go.   Just the idea of recycling back here, and having to go through the school system all over again for years and years and years, and society's programming, and being surrounded by energy feeders and fake people....I won't do it.  I just CAN'T.   So I need to gain the upper hand with my consciousness.  And we start first and foremost in our waking life, making sure we don't slip into a dream-like state of nonsense....which I still can, and do.  ;)   That heightened sense of self awareness and control in our every day waking lives will then spill over into our dreams.....even more so if we're keeping a dream log.   For the first time ever I'm finally diligently keeping a dream log.  I jot down EVERYTHING I can remember, no matter how goofy.  In the short time I've been doing it - since late July - I've already noticed improvement in my dream recall.  Before, I'd only remember my dreams upon first waking, but by the time I was in my car driving to work they were long gone.   Not anymore!  :)  It's so cool.   

So, it's back to the drawing board for me this week.  Back to composing a list of things I'll no longer do or engage in, stuff that will be eliminated from my life, while practicing absolute self awareness during every waking second.  If it's possible!   Then working on gaining the upperhand in the dream state.   

Also what Once & Future recommended was REALLY important.  It's the other half of the equation:

PH...I was a a student of Eckankar in the '80's.

ps edit

An after thought to my last post.....I also agree with what Once & Future was saying here:

Exactly.  And when I look back at what that voice/thought form was saying about me and everybody's amnesia when reincarnating here, it wasn't saying that there was no hope for me, that it was already a done deal, set in stone, that I AM coming back, whether I like it or not.  No.  It was saying/conveying "You've said this before.  But the reason you're back again, in this life is because of amnesia.   And the reason you'll be back again is because of amnesia."

Reading between the lines, what is this saying?

Conquer the amnesia, and the lack of consciousness we experience between life times that allows us to be herded around and recycled, and we can stop the cycle.   So I'd like to think it's not a "done deal" that's set in stone.  That if we gain enough conscious awareness, we can take control of the reigns when we transition.  That's one way of interpreting what this thought form is saying, anyway.  Another interpretation is "You're f****, because it's completely beyond you're control, and you always whine and complain every life that "I'm not coming back!  I won't, I won't!" but you take on the amnesia and do it all over again anyway."    Which leads to my next thought, which was the very first thing I wondered after having this incident.....Who's implementing this amnesia?  Is it me, in alignment with some higher plan I created for myself?  Or is it something else??  (if it is "something else" then I think we all now have a better idea of who/what it is, based on everybody's input so far in this thread.)   So that's the only thing left for me to figure out I guess.  Who's giving me the amnesia.  If I can get the answer to just that question, then it will better reveal whether I even have a shot at escaping the incarnational cycle......

Yes, please continue, everybody.  This reincarnationsl loop trap reminds me of the concept that time is cyclical as well as Mouravieff's assertion that our lives are like film strips.