What point are you at? (Page 6 of 7)

"Well Brad, i think is more important to hear than to believe, at first. I have all the reasons to doubt him, because it is the need, doubt, to research, i do not doubt him more than your or other."

Hello , Rascouran     ok maybe i just misunderstood u just sounded alittle rude that u said u didnt believe his alien experience i know u didnt mean to sound that way

Thats fine that u questioned it i just thought that was a little rude to post

I did a search on "Pro Illuminati" and "Pro Masonry" and was unable to find the sites you are referring to.  Perhaps you can post actual links.

I agree that there is value in questioning and things do not tend to be just black or white.

I also agree that there may be secret societies of a more positive slant.  Perhaps this is what you refer to as the "original Illluminati".  Maybe they got corrupted along the way.

Or maybe this is a name issue.  It seems that the term Illuminati has become connected with a negative group that is trying to rule the world, and maybe you use the term to refer to a different group.

With regard to "the Reptile thing" you seem to suggest that it is a metaphor for intuitive or psychic awareness.  Or perhaps you mean something else.

You seem to be trying to encourage caution with regard to David Icke and his ideas, but I don't think that you are providing much information to back that up.

Maybe posting a link or two will help clarify things.

Manly P. Hall's book The Secret Teaching of All Ages comes highly recommended for anyone who would like to understand how secret societies (the positive ones at least) function and why they exist. Their primary purpose is to preserve and protect sacred knowledge and give it to those ready to use it responsibly. I would say this is a pro-Mason book.

But such groups inevitably generate corrupted offshoots when some members out of their own freewill (or perhaps manipulated by demonic powers) either take over the group, or else split from the group and abuse its knowledge for self-gain.  The Skull-n-Bones are one example, distant corrupt offshoots of the Templars.

So nowadays we have illuminated ones, both the STO-type and harshly STS types. What they have in common is that they are secret, powerful, intelligent, and in possession of rare knowledge. But what they do with that secrecy, power, and knowledge depends.

The Freemasons, at least the ones you see going to local temples, are like the outer-outer-outer circles of the illuminate societies...more like a fraternal men's club than anything...I doubt most Freemasons really understand the deeper knowledge encapsulated in the rituals and mythology they memorize. But any network like that is a playground for psychopathic and negative types...these rise up the ranks pretty quickly and use the network to pull strings left and right. And perhaps if they are ambitious enough, get selected to join the next inner circle.

deviadah,
Thank you for posting those links.  I find them quite helpful.

Ok, got it.

This is the definition of Illuminati from the following site:
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/ … nry01.html

1. Who are the Illuminati? 
An undocumented and undefined group with the unconfirmed goal of world domination.
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That definition works fine for me.  It does seem pretty close to popular usage.

I understand that there are other possible definitions, such as using Illuminati to just refer to the Bavarian Illuminati founded in the 18th century.

I think that you may also be pointing out that the "negative, try to take over the world Illuminati" are not the same as the Freemasons.  That's fine with me.

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I found this link helpful as well.  For anyone who is thinking of reading the article, it is somewhat long, and I found it worthwhile.  I suggest scrolling down to the bottom first and reading some of the conclusions. 

I started from the top and it seemed that he was making fun of Jeremy Narby and the book "The Cosmic Serpent"  which is not the case at all.

To try to summarize, one of the points the author of the essay makes is that it may be possible to see DNA, particularly after drinking ayahuasca.  DNA has a spiral (double helix) shape and that may be a reason why people referred to it as the serpent.

I think this is all fine, and may provide worthwhile insights.  Overall, it seems that the author is trying to show a scientific basis for spiritual experiences, and that is an area that I find interesting.

Even so, I think that there is a significant difference between seeing spiral shapes and calling them serpents or reptiles and the Reptilian theory as put forward by David Icke and others.

I also tend to think that these lizards or hyperdimensional beings may be just our own constructs of deeply buried conscious processes.

Far from underestimating them, the possibility that they could be us, and that we find them repulsive or evil, is far more incentive for investigation and understanding, and, perhaps, either integration or destruction, than they being an external reality.

If they were indeed inner processes, what does this mean?  Reptiles could be long lost instincts that we simply find abhorrent with our more enlightened age, a monster in us that does indeed seek to sublimate our "illusions of civility" so that they can find an outlet, creating a more preferable world for their "kind", so to speak.  Grays as constructs could be masks that we use to cover our primal sides, or an Ahrimanic-type pursuit to fulfill our baser desires or the urge for self-destruction, both falling into the realm of "kill or be-killed/enjoy our existence through gluttony of the senses" instinctual reality.

Perhaps, in the end, it is beneficial to approach all subjects through a process of self-evaluation, discovering the reasoning another consciousness may possess.

What would make sense to to me is that our inner processes are responsible for attracting rather than creating the characters involved in corresponding experiences. In other words, aliens can exist and have their own motivations, just as we exist and have our motivations, but it's our shadow that makes room for them to become involved in our experiences. It's like people with a victim mentality who seem to attract misfortune and abuse by predators...not that they created the predator, but that they attracted and allowed the predator.

This viewpoint's a compromise between the "aliens are projections of the collective unconscious" and "aliens are here to do whatever they want." The reason it makes sense to me is because it's just a scaled up version of what happens in our personal lives, how what we encounter on the outside does reflect what's going on inside.

Also, let's not forget that archetypes transcend boundaries, expressing as psychological phenomena, biological, physical, cosmic, etc... -- the reptilian archetype may express itself psychologically as the more primal and calculative parts of our own minds, or may be embodied in an actual physical race for whom that archetype is the primary basis of their evolution. We can be lionhearted internally, and lions can still exist in grasslands externally.

So perhaps it is simply a matter of one archetype being found in both the internal and external world rather than the internal expression of the archetype necessarily creating the external expression. In the case of aliens at least, since the alien phenomenon does include tangible elements based on physical evidence like documented scars and scoopmarks, UFO sightings, multiple eye-witness accounts, surgically removed implants, missing fetus syndrome, govt/military personnel testimony, etc...

No doubt our darkside can project external thoughtforms, as may be the case with certain categories of demonic entities. But there's just too much physical evidence associated with the alien phenomenon to write them off as figments of our subconscious.

Still, if our internal world has an influence upon what characters and experiences we attract in the external world, there is still much reason to look within ourselves and resolve our issues, face our darkside, etc... based on what we see outside of us: Reptilians as Luciferic entities and Grays as Ahrimanic entities, giving us pause to consider our internal predatory and mechanical tendencies.

But then again, we could look at anything outside and find some corresponding meaning on the inside: rocks to reflect our inner strength (or dumbness, haha), birds to reflect our drive for freedom, Neo to reflect our inner messiah, and so on.