Re: Interesting theories

As google suggested, let's not hold musings to the same standards as theories.

Still, remember that theory must fit observations rather than vice versa. Therefore if one has made observations that standard scientific theory either cannot explain or must resort to contorted rationalizations to explain, it would be better to piece together a superset theory that accomodates the new observations.

For that reason, I have had to come up with stuff like the following:

http://montalk.net/matrix/112/realm-dynamics
http://montalk.net/matrix/114/food-for-the-moon
http://montalk.net/notes/coherence-indicators

The lunar influence is an interesting and debatable one. Skeptics will cite studies where "no statistical differences were observed in crime rates around full moons versus any other day of the month" even though the evidence for this is right before our eyes, beyond what can be attributed to subjectively selected evidence. Many such studies are flawed, and woe to anyone who places more faith in scientism than personal observation.

kingius wrote:

montalk, are you talking about predicting the future / prophecy? Interestingly, precognition is proven.

Yes...let's say that in the couple days preceding a recurring event in your life, you always experience the same onset of patterns. These patterns consist of various indicators that from a logical or scientific point of view could not possibly cause the event that follows, and yet they always occur together. Perhaps they are all caused by a single factor, but that factor is none that can be accounted for under mainstream understanding of reality. But what is undeniable is the correlation, enough so that they can be used in the future to reliable predict the imminence of that particular event. Therefore the cause must be something that transcends what we understand of reality, and the only fitting explanation I can find is a hyperdimensional one, which in turn causes lots of other dangling pieces to fall into place.

That is the case here. This is proof gathered through personal experience and observation. What is proof for me is undeniable proof, and I could share it with you except it wouldn't mean the same due to a difference of context, understanding, and experience. I use precognition to assist in moderating this board and it has proven its effectiveness so long as I have enough self-control and to employ precognitive information to choose something other than the default probable future trajectory.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Interesting theories

A few things spring to mind about this idea of psychic vampires... that if it were true then people who did it would probably eat less as they would be getting energy in this other way and also people may be making other people bad simply as an issue of control and not to "feed". Certainly, if a link between this kind of emotional bullying and food intake could be shown it might provide a possibility of proving the theory.

One thing I would like to pick out : "Even today, military strategies often include an excessive show of force--such as shock and awe--to demoralize and dispirit (vampirize) the enemy" This is clearly wrong. Breaking your enemy's spirit is not done to feed on the enemy but to make them less likely to fight you and more likely to rout, making victory more likely. Unless the author's definition of "vampirizing" is actually "scaring" of course but the rest of the article does not seem to suggest this.

I have to say I am sceptical. The author sites a relative of his as evidence of this phenonoma being real. This relative says she can live forever by feeding on other people's energies, yet she dies at 101. So she isnt exactly reliable as her claim was disproved by life itself, many other people live to over 100 and more people are doing it all the time especially as modern medicine and knowledge of biology is improving.

Anyway, I could go on but I think that is enough for now to start a discussion on this.

Re: Interesting theories

Sowelu Im not about to discount solar events affecting our lives out of hand, they may well do, to me that seems like a more plausible theory than some others I have read. However, if there is an affect it must be unconscious and so we would probably be unaware of it.

Montalk - perhaps you are worthy of more respect than your actions towards me tonight have demonstrated, but on this "Many such studies are flawed, and woe to anyone who places more faith in scientism than personal observation. " I would like to say that seeing is not always believing, that we can all be deceived by our senses and that one persons stealth fighter is another persons spirit demon wink

A quick point about this exact thing. I saw a nature program the other night which showed strange clearings in a jungle that the natives believed were created by devils. It turns out that driver ants live in a particular tree and destroy everything around it that might affect the tree's growth, including other plants, trees, animals, everything. They attack the plants by biting them and injecting them with formic acid, which in a matter of days kills them off. So not devils after all. Ants.

Re: Interesting theories

I had an acquaintance in college who ate very little, was skinny, and full of energy but had a vampiric personality and even admitted to feeling energized when he was around others, those same others who complained to me of feeling tired after being around him. However, I have also met overweight people who seemed so energy deficient that they not only took energy from others, but ate additional food to supplement their deficit. So I believe they could eat less, but in some cases eat more... therefore how much one eats is not a reliable indicator. Also, there are said to be different types of subtle energy that can be fed upon, only the coarsest of which can be found in food.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Interesting theories

Interesting montalk but that pretty much shuts the door on the only way to find supporting evidence that I can think of. So if we need different types of subtle energy, and only some people are psychic vampires, how do the rest get it? Love perhaps?

51 (edited by montalk 2006-01-26 14:29:48)

Re: Interesting theories

Kingius wrote:

Interesting montalk but that pretty much shuts the door on the only way to find supporting evidence that I can think of.

It doesn't shut the door, it just requires that one cast a wider net and piece together circumstantial evidence and observations to formulate a best-fit hypothesis which can then be further tested and modified. There are some things that the idea of subtle energy and psychic vampires can more elegantly explain than less esoteric theories.

Kingius wrote:

So if we need different types of subtle energy, and only some people are psychic vampires, how do the rest get it? Love perhaps?

Check out "In Search of the Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky... it discusses one model for how we receive our energies and transmute them into finer forms. The food we eat, air we breathe, and impressions we receive are potential sources of energy. But we also have within us an energy receiving center, which the Fourth Way system calls the sexual center, that pulls in coarse energy for transmutation into finer forms.

Regarding psychic vampires, my best guess is that either their transmutation process is dysfunctional, they lack certain higher centers, or they are being used as portals to siphon energy from those around them.


Kingius wrote:

Montalk - perhaps you are worthy of more respect than your actions towards me tonight have demonstrated, but on this

In the past I have dealt with overconfident skeptics who, funny enough, have this thing about whether others are worthy of their acceptance or threatened by their intellectual prowess. They come in strutting like kings and underestimate those they wish to debate, entering with a natural assumption of being superior, more logical, more reasonable, with the backing of science and objectivity. Sometimes they make good points, other times it is painful watching them bask in their hubris. And when they get plowed into the ground, they either cry fowl or play dumb. Funny in the beginning, sickening at the end. Hoping you don't fall into the same pattern, that's all.

kingius wrote:

I would like to say that seeing is not always believing, that we can all be deceived by our senses and that one persons stealth fighter is another persons spirit demon

Which is where critical thinking comes in, to distinguish between reality and illusion. There are certain undeniable observations - something black is flying through the night sky. Then there are explanations: it is a stealth fighter, or it is a spirit demon. If both individuals had the same set of data, they would come to come to common agreement. The first knows about stealth fighters, their shape, their noise, etc... while the second does not. Likewise, if a spirit demon were to fly through the night, complete with black wavy cloak and glowing red eyes, the first who knows nothing about spirit demons would squeeze it into his assumption of being a stealth fighter with red landing lights.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Interesting theories

Montalk, you're assessment of my personality and motives is totally wrong. You are letting past experience interfere with your assessment of the present. Perhaps this goes some way to explain why you banned me and called me a troll and even now are insisting I am arrogant.

I have put up with being called ignorant, arrogrant and a trouble causer and so far have not risen to the bait. I have also been trying to play by your rules and even support a theory on your web site. You don't seem to see this though. You yourself are very much like a fundamentalist, you are discarding evidence that does not match what you believe in order to keep believing it. In this case I am talking about your judgement of me. I would have thought that you would be more mature than that. Suggesting that I think people are afraid of my intellect shows a deep misunderstanding of the events - people on the forum reacted defensively to my questions and so I assumed they saw me as a threat, a normal reaction to a threat is defensiveness. Now that I have pointed this out, will it make any difference?

Re: Interesting theories

i dont think your a threat to us or the theories presented here. but i do think you lack faith in yourself and others around you to ask why we think this way. instead you should read what is here and ask yourself do you believe. and if you do then you have risen above the rest who say that dont. its not being part of a whole who think one way. its the differnet opinons here that blend together to form these theories from all over the world. so we are the minority we are just us. sorry you feel threaten by our ideas, but look inside yourself and embrace what you think is real. but search deep and you will find the answer. you dont need us to tell you.

Re: Interesting theories

kingius2 wrote:

However, if there is an affect it must be unconscious and so we would probably be unaware of it.

Indeed. That's the point. Becoming conscious requires tremendous effort, but everywhere within and around us are clues. This board is populated with people who tend to seek out those clues, and discuss them, compare notes, and work on expanding their consciousness. By definition, what gets covered will be things not readily known, available or even existent to the mass consciousness steeped in the human condition.

"The most important decision you have to make is whether you live in a hostile or friendly universe."
~ Albert Einstein

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. ~Marcel Proust

The evolution of humanity is an evolution of the heart. The path is through the heart.

Re: Interesting theories

theleague - I do not feel threatened by any of you or the theories on this site. Nor do I think that you are above me for believing something or below me for believing it. I do not subscribe to elitism and nor should you. That is not to say everything you believe is wrong, far from it, but this aspect [elitism] is not a healthy one.

Sowelu - Expanding consciousness sounds like a meditation process, or perhaps a drug induced one. Is this what you mean? Or are you saying that more knowledge = expanded consciousness?

56 (edited by montalk 2006-01-26 14:45:47)

Re: Interesting theories

Kingius wrote:

Now that I have pointed this out, will it make any difference?

Sure, I won't mention it anymore. If what I said is only a possibility, then it's not enough of a certainty to continue bringing it up. I shall stick to the topics under discussion and refrain from further transgressions.

People do have limited energy and time, and a good portion of our responses are reacapping what has already been written elsewhere for your perusal. This thread is going to have about six or seven pages before it fizzles out, let's make it worthwhile.

Just out of sincere curiosity, how did you originally come across the fringe subjects, and could you further elaborate on what subjects interest you and why? Figured it would be beneficial to better understand where you are coming from.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Interesting theories

Thank you montalk. I promise you that I am not here to undo what you have done. Like you, I am on my own personal voyage of discovery. We each come from different points that might as well be worlds apart yet we converge together to enrich each others lives. A good theory of why opposites attract in relationships is that instinctively we are all looking to learn something new.

Re: Interesting theories

Great. I am not seeking obedience, capitulation, or agreement for the sake of agreement, only lucidity and sincerity in discussion. If someone demonstrates reasoning and intuition that transcends my own, then I am more than grateful for being shown a better way. If another instead uses logical fallacies or false assumptions to contradict, then naturally I will defend my point of view. And after energy is expended without agreement, we just call it a truce. Maybe the wisest thing is not to argue or defend, but let people believe what they want to believe. Still, with some spare energy and time, it can be fun and potentially productive.

By the way, have you seen this? http://victorzammit.com

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

59 (edited by Sowelu 2006-01-26 15:10:42)

Re: Interesting theories

kingius2 wrote:

Sowelu - Expanding consciousness sounds like a meditation process, or perhaps a drug induced one. Is this what you mean? Or are you saying that more knowledge = expanded consciousness?

More knowledge, awareness and wisdom = expanded consciousness.

It's not just a mental thing, but incorporates all the senses, including those not typically recognized by established sciences such as intuition, empathy, clairsentience or "gestalt knowing", and likely far more that I can't think of at the moment. big_smile As well as, of course, discernment tools such as logic and reason.

Knowledge is not simply facts, and consciousness is not just a mental experience. And wisdom, as I'm using it here, is the ability to properly apply the knowledge acquired through experience. Intentional use of the combination of all of these faculties to learn of the previously hidden or unknown, and unlearn/rectify the erroneous within the known, equates to expanding one's consciousness.

As I meant it, anyway. smile

"The most important decision you have to make is whether you live in a hostile or friendly universe."
~ Albert Einstein

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. ~Marcel Proust

The evolution of humanity is an evolution of the heart. The path is through the heart.

Re: Interesting theories

kingius, if you're looking for hard scientific evidence that 'proves' many of the theories we talk about here then you may as well give up now because you're wasting your time. Particularly if you're unwilling to spend your ever so precious time doing your own research.

Nobody here cares what you think, and nobody has anything to prove to you. If none of this resonates with you then feel free to disregard it all. Nobody has tried to force this information on to you. Let's not forget you turned up here univited. How would you feel if an univited guest walked into your home and started demanding things of you or saying all your beliefs were false? You would probably consider that quite rude.

Many of the people in this forum have been researching this material for many many years. It's what most of us are passionate about which is why we spend much of our time researching and more importantly experiencing.

Science certainly has it's uses, but it's not the be all and end all. Science is only ever as good as the instruments that are available to measure stuff with.

Currently there are no scientific instruments available to measure many of the subtle energies that exist in this multi-verse. And because of this, people like you won't believe in these energies, or the soul, until such a time when scientists can measure them.

Many people like us have come to realise that we don't need scientific instruments because we ourselves can become the instrument. We can all come to feel and experience these energies, and our soul, and if you don't want to accept that then that's entirely fine by us. It's not our job to convince you of anything.

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/