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Noble Realms → General Discussion → LKJ--Podcast
Wow.
Just the kind of discourse I was SO hoping not to see here. This thread veered off topic in a nasty way......
We gotta keep our wits about this, eh?
A little knowledge, as in street savvy, helps you from being run over by buses, or from being mugged by street bandits, but beyond that, any amount of knowledge that is accumulated in respect of a trans-dimensional agenda is about as protective against their unseen influence as is a leaking Durex, in preventing conception!
LOL!! wow I would have to disagree with that one. Funny how the phrase 'constructive reasoning' just popped to me. I would say that knowledge accumulated in respect of a trans-dimensional agenda can be just as protective, if not MORE so, than that of a leaking Durex in preventing conception. LOL!!! XD
CortexVortex, I know this thread has gotten negative, but that is the irony of debating the issue of negativity. We've had nastier threads before; they flare up every once in a while and then fizzle out. Things always return to normal.
montalk, thanks for the pearl diver analogy. Diving deep for pearls (of wisdom)
Stay down too long and you can drown.
Diving into the Darkside for pearls (of wisdom), if you go too deep and stay
too long you can get Rapture of the Dark.
Thanks for reminding me that I should come up for air every now and then.
PS: This has been an excellent thread. Quite a mental workout. The rose-colored
glasses vs. the blueblocker glasses discussion has many open doors of applications.
How many screens/filters/defaults are we currently perceiving our world through?
And how many are in place that we've totally forgotten about?
montalk, the poster at the other forum is actually VERY well informed about the transdimensional agenda--has read Icke, Swerdlow, Rense, the C's, you, etc., etc. I think she simply reached a point where as in your analogy, she had to come up for air and hold the pearls up to the sun.
She used to be very negative, depressed, and bitter about it all, and now she's more interested in focusing on the possibility of positive change, and seems more hopeful and happier in general. The pendulum has swung...
Interesting, I'll modify my post then. From the snippet Xenopope posted this was not apparent at all, especially in context of his remark. What is her reasoning for believing "knowledge accumulated in respect of a trans-dimensional agenda can be just as protective, if not MORE so, than that of a leaking Durex in preventing conception."? Guess I don't understand what she's saying, or why. Just curious, don't feel like debating, just listening.
Funny, I didn't pay much attention to that myself, but for my part, I actually don't think it's constructive to focus much on that agenda. I'm not in denial, I know these beings exist and that they feed off our negativity. The next step is to work at becoming empowered so that your FRV will be out of their range of influence. That's where I am at now (working at it, I mean).
Anyway, I'll ask my friend for a clarification of that quote, for your benefit.
I'd like to post some excerpts from Gnosis Volume I pertaining to negative emotions. Mouravieff has a concise yet detailed way of explaining things. The terminology is a bit specialized, but when he's talking about the various centers of the body (motor, sexual, intellectual, etc...) he's referring to something that's sort of analagous to the chakras, or to behavioral circuits of people.
We can nevertheless misuse the faculties of the negative parts. This
negative abuse is a real danger. The case is obvious as far as the motor
centre is concerned, yet here physical exhaustion acts as a control, inter-
vening to stop excessive consumption of energy. When it comes to the
other centres, the misuse of the negative parts takes much more insidious
forms, which entail more serious consequences for our minds as well as
our bodies. That is how the negative part of the intellectual centre nour-
ishes jealousy, afterthoughts, hypocrisy, suspicion, treachery, etc. The
negative part of the emotional centre receives all the disagreeable impres-
sions and serves as a vehicle for negative emotions, for which the keyboard
is very large, ranging from melancholy to hate. We shall have occasion to
go deeper into the problem of negative emotions. Their destructive role is
generally unknown, but represents one of the major obstacles to esoteric
evolution.[...]Among the lower centres, the emotional centre is worst off. In our
civilization – as we have already observed – it generally receives neither
rational education nor systematic training. Its formation and development
are now left to chance, since religious education today has been largely
intellectualized and rationalized. All sorts of considerations dictated by
worldly wisdom and mundane vanity; the habitual practice of lying –
especially to ourselves – and hypocrisy, from which no one is totally
exempt, imprint dangerous distortions on the emotional centre. Frequent-
ly struck by a feeling of inferiority and by the need for compensation, its
usual motivation; accustomed as it is to judge and to criticize everybody
and everything; surrendering itself to a strangely voluptuous enjoyment
of negative emotions; this centre becomes unrecognizable. It degenerates
to the point where it becomes the instrument of destruction of our being, which
it accelerates on its way towards ageing and death.[...]The quantity of force
necessary to genuinely oppose the influence of the Moon is already con-
siderable. The first imperative, then, is to stop wasting these forces, to turn
off the taps which let the energy escape uselessly: sterile emotions, in
particular negative emotions; fantasies from uncontrolled imagination;
uncoordinated mental gymnastics, gossiping and chattering. We must
thus act like a wise minister of finance and carefully economize our
energies, yet without all the time sterilizing either our activity or our
intelligence. On the contrary, we must store and as far as possible aug-
ment these forces to build up our reserves. These are the two main aspects
of the first objective we have to attain.
To summarize, he explains that the destructive role of negative emotions is one of the major obstacles to esoteric evolution. This comes from a misuse of our emotional center, from the overindulgence in negative emotions that eventually twists it beyond recognition. It becomes a cancer of the soul. Among other things, this puts one under greater influence of the Moon (makes one more reactive) and therefore turns one more easily into a pawn of the Matrix.
But he does give props to the importance of shocks for those who need them:
To be inclined towards esoteric work by positive emotions and success,
one should be just, naturally pure, and not having been soiled by life. For
most men success and joy, instead of awakening them, plunge them into
mental sleep. Success, they say, turns the head. From the esoteric point of
view, disagreeable shocks are a better base for work than happy accidents.
The humility demanded by the Tradition is necessary as a screen against
the noxious influences to which the least exterior or interior success
exposes man. However, here as elsewhere one must avoid extremes.[...]We repeat: unless he is one of the just or righteous, nobody can reach the
path of Access to the Way, without first passing through an interior bank-
ruptcy; a moral collapse.Economy of energies too is a must, as the walk to and on the Way
demands their total mobilization. Any unjustified expenditure can lead
in the end to failure.
So unless you are naturally motivated by positive awareness, you'll have to go through some hard knocks and hit rock bottom before you muster the determination to esoterically (spiritually) develop yourself. Notice here that the shocks serve to get you onto the path rather than help move you along the path. They function like alarm clocks... getting up out of bed is definitely progress, but that doesn't mean holding the blaring alarm clock to your ear for the rest of the day gives you more progress. After you've started on the path, the Way, then it's time to switch over to the whole "transmute negative into positive" system because you need to conserve energy, just as Castaneda wrote. You can't be impeccable with your energy if you react to impressions (even new tidbits of awareness) with anger and frustration.
Also saw this, which I thought was interesting:
In general, the reaction of those
around towards someone who begins to search for the Way is negative.
This negative attitude is the result of the action of the General Law, which,
as we know, tends to keep man in his place. Not being able to do this
directly by the action of Illusion, the General Law, when it loses its do-
minion over the man who 'moves', acts indirectly by the mediation of those
around him. It is a classic situation.
You folks are already familiar with this. When you raise your head, the matrix works through those around you to try and pound you back down. It's a classic situation.
Here's the last excerpt from Gnosis I, which sums it up:
The influences to which life–that great way–constantly exposes us,
are mixed, and contain corruption. To choose between them, we possess
certain resources, a certain liberty of action, and a force which makes it
possible for us to accomplish this work of selection. This force is attention.
Attention is the sole capital we possess. But we can use it in either a good or
a bad way. Often, we cannot even say that we use it at all: we leave it to
disperse. Yet attention is indispensable to us, especially for the control
of negative emotions, which impoverish us and provoke in us losses,
sometimes considerable, of forces we have accumulated at the price of
sustained effort. In certain cases this can go so far as to provoke true
collapse within us. A watchful attention allows us to stop these
negative emotions the moment they are born. Afterwards, on ground
which has been purified in this way, we will be able to let positive
emotions flow freely, so as to enrich us and permit us to accumulate
the force necessary to continue our esoteric work.
Yeh I kinda took that quote to be regarding to the agenda, I mean we can study and seek every tidbit of info regarding the agenda all we want but does this knowledge really protect us, I mean the knowledge regarding agenda?
I really love Stuart Wilde's take on this subject myself also as I have seen a few others post about his perspective. And the difference here is he seems less interested in "agenda" as he does with offering what he deems as "protection" as the necessary knowledge to possess in this area.
I read God's Gladiators last month or so and I tell ya not only did I really love it, but I laughed my butt off quite a few times, the guy has a great way of telling his stuff!
He made it very clear that his protection came from getting past the fear and to have "real" love of them, either or, preferably both.
In all honesty I wish I had the capital to invest in all his books, but I only have the Wilde material from the File Index 
I would also love to meet him, he just did a ayahuasca workshop/retreat in Brazil this month, err 2 of em actually.
Out of every author I have ever read he was up there in that smaller list that can so totally captivate me that I read until its all done with few breaks to none!
So in my view it was "agenda" knowledge that the author of that quote was referring to as being about as helpful as...., personally I kinda agree, afterall it does go back to what Montalk even said about negativity doesn't it, you must understand and have knowledge in it, but so you can actively recognize it and not get ensnared, same idelogy here isnt it?
You cant really stop the negative things going on in the world just by having the knowledge right?
Like knowing the agenda doesn't stop that either will it?
Same same...you cant stop the agenda because you have the knowledge... Anyways I like the warm and fuzzy version where you can do something about it with a different knowledge...how to protect yourself, lol
Im such a baby, *puts rose colored glasses backs on*
Looks like you were right, quantumsurfer, here's what Mel had to say when I questioned her:
What I was saying, Jen, was that practical knowledge of practical issues can serve as being protective in a physical environment.
Like, don't have a picnic on the fast lane of a motorway!
But, how is conscious knowledge of other-dimensional phenomena protective in respect of its potential hidden danger to us?
Having the conscious knowledge that invisible beings exist in an adjacent dimension whose intent is to use humanity as emotional food, is 'protective' how?
Mel
I agree. And, I enjoyed your post, quantumsurfer. Stuie Wilde is one of my favorites too, though I have not yet read God's Gladiators. I'll add that to my already long list of books to read.
I think , for me, I would change the slogan "knowledge protects", to "understanding protects." Understanding is the next level up because we can't love without it. I guess that's another term for positivity + awareness since I see it as incorporating both.
In the Bible it says, "With all thy getting, get understanding." This is making more and more sense to me.
After pondering this subject for a while last night, I came to some tentative conclusions. I think most agree that gaining awareness is a good thing. But different people have different opinions on what is worth knowing. So perhaps you only need to learn what you need to know, and what you need to know may not be precisely the same what another needs to know. And because of this difference, you will not find as worthwhile to know what another finds worthy, which can be taken the wrong way if they think you're dissing their interests by not fully appreciating what they appreciate.
But what is worth knowing, and what is not so worth knowing? For me, I don't feel a need to know baseball statistics, what happened in the third season of Law and Order, how to crochet, how many soldiers were killed in Iraq today versus yesterday, how to write well in cursive, string theory, what it was like for yet another person to be held hostage, additional reasons why the neo-cons are corrupt and Bush is an idiot, or what latest convict escaped from prison and is on the loose.
Yet sports fanatics could call me a wuss for not following baseball, TV fans could call me lame for not following Law and Order, and political activists could call me ignorant for not paying attention to the latest news from Iraq. And likewise if I told them I cared to know the principles of spirituality, how to use my intuition together with critical thinking, how the hyperdimensional dark forces operate and ways to counter their methods, etc.... these folks would go "huh? You're crazy, man."
So that tells me that different people have different value systems, and different levels of openness to higher orders of objectivity. There's a huge difference between degrees of objectivity and orders of objectivity. The first just means becoming more refined in your knowledge of some particular area, while the second means transcending it to find knowledge that matters more in the big scheme of things. I think political awareness is of a higher order than awareness of sports statistics, but that metaphysical awareness is of a higher order than political. But if you don't know the difference between degree and order, then someone whose knowledge is of a higher order will seem to you like being of a lesser degree, and you'll surely call him/her stupid and ignorant for not concentrating energy where you place it.
Anyway, here are some questions I ask to determine whether something is really worth knowing:
* Is this something I really need to know?
* Does it make me a better person?
* Will it save me trouble later if I learn it now?
* Does it tell me something important I didn't already know?
* Does it help me remember what I've known all along but forgot?
* Will it straighten out my dilemmas, confusions, misperceptions, and paradoxes?
* Will it empower me in some way?
* Will it help me better understand myself and my relation to the world?
* Will it bring me closer to being like my Higher Self?
* Will this be important one day, even if it seems not as applicable right now?
* Does this free me from manipulation that happens solely because I'm unaware of it?
* Is this at all relevant to helping me understand and do what I am here to do?
* Does this in any way assist me being who I really am?
* What would happen if I went without knowing it?
One reason I bring this up is because certain news stories are just old news to me, yet they have a very definite emotional shock component. I mean, they are written to make you relive whatever the latest victim lived through, all in the name of keeping you informed about the world. Now, the idea behind transmuting negative to positive is that when you are given a new bit of needed awareness, it might be shocking and if you're not present in yourself you can give yourself over to a mechanical negative reaction that depletes your vital energy reserves. Transmutation is a way of getting awareness without losing energy or injuring your subtle body.
But if a news story has nothing that you truly need to know beyond the headline, then just exposing yourself to the shock is like dropping quarters into an empty vending machine. Shocks in themselves are not the point, otherwise you might as well buy and watch the entire Faces of Death DVD set and become "knowledgeable" on what it's like to die in a hundred different ways.
So for the sake of being impeccable with your energy, you better get a return of knowledge for energy invested, which means being discerning of what you need to know and transmuting whatever negative energy you generate into positive. But how to transmute? Well, knowledge itself is empty if merely memorized, but if you observe yourself, turn within and get a flash of insight about how that knowledge fits into the bigger picture, if you receive an inner sense of recognition that brings about true understanding, then that in itself is what reverses the polarity from negative to positive and quantum leaps you to a higher order of objectivity.
A most excellent post, montalk. As I read, I realized this is precisely what I've been thinking/feeling/doing. I keep up on current affairs, but rarely feel much need to know more than the basics, and have no desire at all to plow through the entire contents of newspapers, magazines and internet sites wringing every bit of drama and loosh they can out of the endless stream of bad news.
So for the sake of being impeccable with your energy, you better get a return of knowledge for energy invested, which means being discerning of what you need to know and transmuting whatever negative energy you generate into positive. But how to transmute? Well, knowledge itself is empty if merely memorized, but if you observe yourself, turn within and get a flash of insight about how that knowledge fits into the bigger picture, if you receive an inner sense of recognition that brings about true understanding, then that in itself is what reverses the polarity from negative to positive and quantum leaps you to a higher order of objectivity.
That part about the bigger picture is crucial. As the Pleiaidians say, there is always a bigger picture. And that's a do-it-yourself gig; the bad-news purveyors are the last place to find it.
Just the kind of discourse I was SO hoping not to see here. This thread veered off topic in a nasty way......
We gotta keep our wits about this, eh?
Why not, what's the point of having a forum if you can't discuss topics. Are we all supposed to blindly believe what someone tells us? Hmmm sounds like communism to me or perhaps the hive mentality of the greys! Take me to your leader... Personally I think the majority is missing the point. You're all trying to find the truth through some kind of quick fix. You are objectifying your reality by passing judgement on others via subjective measures which you falsely attribute as being "reality". You see I can play the same game of talking in circles! The reality is that you're not going to find the truth "out there" in some book or manual or even what someone is telling you and it's not going to be a function of what some alien force decides to do or not do. The only real truth you are going to find resides within YOU but it's a journey that most aren't willing to take. As I said before the greatest evil is EGO and my experience tells me that's what is driving the whole NEW AGE movement and forums like this. It's all about believing that the universe ends with us, that we are GOD. Well I hate to tell you but if you believe that you're in for a rude awakening. Ask yourself how much good has come from the New Age of "awakening" as it's being called? The whole idea is a joke as if only now people are waking up to "reality". If anyone has done any research you'll find that there have always been great minds and people who knew better, they were usually the ones being ostracized and criticized for being too negative among other things. The arrogance of this New Age movement is certainly going to bring about it's demise.
Montalk wrote:Bet your blood was rushing when you wrote that one.
Not at all, you're the one who made the foolish statement. After all the question is legitimate, what are your credentials, what is your experience... saying everyone should be aware but stay positive is hardly any major revelation, I want peace on earth; so what, where's the wisdom?
You speak of experience, wisdom, etc... All I see are instruction "manuals" as in the Gnosis post as if you can reduce life to a simple set of instructions. I can guarantee you that Montalk and probably most people on this site DO NOT follow these instructions, I certainly wouldn't because they are ridiculous.
"To be inclined towards esoteric work by positive emotions and success,
one should be just, naturally pure, and not having been soiled by life."
Excuse me what exactly does this mean? Show me anyone who fits this description ... " just, naturally pure and not having been soiled by life." as in a mindless zombie or perhaps an embryo? Keep smoking whatever makes you happy! This totally supports what I have been saying, we are being led away from our intuition and from what makes us human.
It's human to make mistakes, it's human to sin, it's human to take responsibility, it's human to grow, to give up one's humanity is no longer human. So what does that leave us with? I guess you guys all think that the movie The Matrix is non-fiction and "sign of the times" as well. Well when you guys find the red pill let me know.
The irony of all of this is that the NEW AGE movement doesn't provide any more legitimate answers than the religions which it decries. In my assessment the NEW AGE movement is just a substitute for traditional religion yet with the pick and choose approach to where you can select whatever you think is your reality. As far as I'm concerned "the aliens that I'm talking to are right while your aliens are wrong". As in, well the Casseopians said this... well that's not what the Pleidians said.... After all there are what 13-15 different alien species identitifed by the military. So which ones are the good guys?
I suppose it's akin to playing some sort of game were you're progressing through various levels as in "stages". So tell me what stage are you at, how many points have you acquired? What a simplistic and distorted perspective of life! Believe me I'm aware of the Michael Tsarions (NETER), Jordan Maxwells etc... of the world and I'm sure that one day we will find out that they were serving to confuse us all as well. I'm sure that you know that the best way to make any scam effective is to garnish a lie with some some truths.
You've seen the movie Dark City... woopie. I guess that speaks volumes about you supporting such garbage! For being someone espousing positivity it would seems rather hypocritical to support such "negative" work... as in paying to go see it. Afterall, I'm sure you just think that it's just a reflection of the times (Metaphor) but perhaps it never occured to you that if everyone would reject the crap that the powers that be are trying to sell us, that this would help to empower us while removing the power from the negative "forces". Now that's constructive, unlike spending hours comtemplating STSs, various dimensions, alien bases on the moon or mars etc...
Don't listen to what I have to say, after all, you have all the answers anyways. I suppose it's never occured to you that perhaps it's you that "doesn't know any better." I'm sure that you think that discussing the finer points of negativity vs. positivity and intuition, experience, observation, is going to accomplish some greater good. If you objectively examine what you are saying you would realize that you are talking in circles and not much is to be gained from it. Bottom line is what is the point? As for me I'm heading for "Stage 10" ! 
By the way I already know the rebuttal, you guys are going to think that I feel my belief system or conditioning is being threatened by NEW AGE rhetoric and how I'm not ready for the reality of stage #4... Nothing could be further from the truth, my belief system strengthens with each exposure to this conceptual delusional reality. You see this is my version of awareness and positivity. I realize that the agenda behind the NEW AGE is neither positive or fully aware!
Wake up sheep!:lol:
By the way I already know the rebuttal, you guys are going to think that I feel my belief system or conditioning is being threatened by NEW AGE rhetoric and how I'm not ready for the reality of stage #4...
Actually, the only thing I thought was how defensive, false and arrogant you appear, and how you'll perhaps see that one day. Or not.
Best to you,
Sowelu
Actually, the only thing I thought was how defensive, false and arrogant you appear, and how you'll perhaps see that one day. Or not.
Best to you,
Sowelu
Sowelu, you took the words out of my keyboard.
Jen
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