Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Hey

I thought I'd just add this link for anyone who is interested. I know the C's say that Jesus never travelled to India, but I have always been hesitant in accepting some of their messages. For example, they also state that in his apperance he has strawberry blonde hair - something I find hard to imagine for someone living in the Middle East to have.

This link is about the prophet - Issa, who is supposedly Christ, who spent 17 of his years in India and Tibet. I am not sure of the whole story, but the texts were discovered by a Russian guy in a monatery in the 1800s, and when he told this to the world, everyone thought he was pulling some kind of scam - a hoax. But then they found texts almost identical in another monastery somewhere else, and were able to show that it wasn't a one off account, and that the message had spread throughout the region. But who really knows.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/issa.htm


In the end it makes no difference if Jesus was real or a myth, or what occurred in the bible actually happened. Its what you do with the information available that matters. As long as you use it wisely and not pervert what has been said, then you can't go wrong.

Vincit omnia Veritas: Truth conquers all.

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Are there any hard core Trekkies around here?

I think that I can cut through everything with one scene out of Star Trek Deep Space Nine (a great show that was heavily underrated) where the O'Brien and Bashir were arguing over the death of Davey Crockett at the Alamo. One said that Davey Crockett fought to the last shot and died a hero's death, while the other said that Crockett was probably executed at the conclusion of the battle with all the women and non-combatants. Then Worf comes in and tells them how it is. He said that if you BELIEVE in the legend of Davey Crockett, then there can be no doubt that he fought to the bitter end and died an hero's death, but if you don't believe in that legend, then he was just a man, and it doesn't matter how he died.

Gotta love Klingon logic.

48

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

GibbleTronic wrote:

Are there any hard core Trekkies around here?

Well, I'm not, sorry smile

I think that I can cut through everything with one scene out of Star Trek Deep Space Nine (a great show that was heavily underrated) where the O'Brien and Bashir were arguing over the death of Davey Crockett at the Alamo. One said that Davey Crockett fought to the last shot and died a hero's death, while the other said that Crockett was probably executed at the conclusion of the battle with all the women and non-combatants. Then Worf comes in and tells them how it is. He said that if you BELIEVE in the legend of Davey Crockett, then there can be no doubt that he fought to the bitter end and died an hero's death, but if you don't believe in that legend, then he was just a man, and it doesn't matter how he died.

Gotta love Klingon logic.

So if we believe in the legend of Davy Crockett, will we have eternal life?

That's the promise of Jesus.  From John 11:  "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. "

Seriously, I do think it's a matter of resonance whether we give the Jesus story any credence or not.  I think it helps if we are able to go beyond the literal mindset and see Jesus as a representation of the Christ spirit, although that doesn't rule out the possibility of his having lived as an actual person.

By the way, I think Jesus' quote above is related to transcending time (and probably space as well) as part of Christ or cosmic consciousness.

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Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Just what is in it for you to have eternal life, and what makes that so important. You-know, in the general scheme of things. All of humanity would be far better off it not one of these religions had ever surfaced. Fueled by fear of the unknown, and fed by force of arms they destroy everything in their path. Witness the gunning of the hindus in Afganistan by the super holy Taliban. You Christians are no better. All of these faiths have no bearing on the creator, never did, never will. More savage behavour in the name of some killer deity. The real pity of this, is that the non-believers will be forced to defend themselves from these hell-bent for leather religions and by defending themselves be forced to have contact with the violence needed to stop these crusades, jihads, pogroms, whatever, and that is really too bad. Except me. Bring it on.

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Religion may have inspired violence and hatred in minorities within their groups, but it has also inspired some of the most beautiful music, art work and architecture the world has seen.

It seems to be out of balance when we choose to focus on one aspect only.

And besides, free will is what makes this life interesting and fun to exist in.

Vincit omnia Veritas: Truth conquers all.

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Krazor wrote:

Just what is in it for you to have eternal life, and what makes that so important. You-know, in the general scheme of things. All of humanity would be far better off it not one of these religions had ever surfaced. Fueled by fear of the unknown, and fed by force of arms they destroy everything in their path. Witness the gunning of the hindus in Afganistan by the super holy Taliban. You Christians are no better. All of these faiths have no bearing on the creator, never did, never will. More savage behavour in the name of some killer deity. The real pity of this, is that the non-believers will be forced to defend themselves from these hell-bent for leather religions and by defending themselves be forced to have contact with the violence needed to stop these crusades, jihads, pogroms, whatever, and that is really too bad. Except me. Bring it on.

Whats in it for us to have eternal life and why is so important?
Sometimes i feel that we are having  experiences and lessons in matter
to enable us to live in eternity. Can you imagine life in eternity without the knowledge and love and creation that would make it bearable from an individualised ego perspective.
I had a lesson in infinity and eternity many years ago from taking Salvia Divinorum it was simply shocking, more than real like your unconsciouness mind is made of this stuff, too much for me at my present level of understanding.
Maybe thats what the christ consciousness is, the level we need to reach to become the eternal thing we are.
Nelson Mandela said something like "the thing we most fear is not that we are small but that we are greater than anything we can imagine"

i agree with you about religions, maybe however they provide valuable lessons for mankind as well as a major loosh supply and a source of thoughtform attachements.
The one thing TPTB  dont seem to like is gnostism or the inner journey to truth and light and people waking up to the prison they built with their own minds, no wonder they changed christ's gnostic teachings into a religion

Its not like we are fractions of the whole but rather versions of the whole.

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Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Krazor wrote:

Just what is in it for you to have eternal life, and what makes that so important.

Actually, I raised that point in a tongue-in-cheek manner, but I guess I didn't get that across very well.

Anyway, we all have eternal life as it is, since we are not our bodies,
and our spirit is eternal. 

You-know, in the general scheme of things. All of humanity would be far better off it not one of these religions had ever surfaced. Fueled by fear of the unknown, and fed by force of arms they destroy everything in their path. Witness the gunning of the hindus in Afganistan by the super holy Taliban. You Christians are no better.

"You Christians"???

Krazor, it does not seem to me that you have read this thread very carefully.  Most if not all of the posters here understand Jesus on a very different level than that of the orthodox religious mindset.

All of these faiths have no bearing on the creator, never did, never will.

I do agree that religion as it exists today has little to do with Spirit or spirituality.  However, most religions have an "esoteric root" which is where the original understandings can be found. 

More savage behavour in the name of some killer deity. The real pity of this, is that the non-believers will be forced to defend themselves from these hell-bent for leather religions and by defending themselves be forced to have contact with the violence needed to stop these crusades, jihads, pogroms, whatever, and that is really too bad. Except me. Bring it on.

Fine, but I don't see myself or any of the other posters here getting into any crusades, sorry we can't oblige...

53

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Barefoot Doc wrote:

Whats in it for us to have eternal life and why is so important?
Sometimes i feel that we are having  experiences and lessons in matter
to enable us to live in eternity. Can you imagine life in eternity without the knowledge and love and creation that would make it bearable from an individualised ego perspective.

From what I've gathered and intuited, we incarnate here for the purpose of having experiences that expand both us and our Source, which already dwells in eternity (no time nor place).  We are of course always connected to that Source, we've just forgotten.  In Christ or Cosmic consciousness, we are aware of that oneness, in an experiental sense, not just intellectually.

I had a lesson in infinity and eternity many years ago from taking Salvia Divinorum it was simply shocking, more than real like your unconsciouness mind is made of this stuff, too much for me at my present level of understanding.
Maybe thats what the christ consciousness is, the level we need to reach to become the eternal thing we are.

Or to experience this--see above.  We don't become eternal, we are eternal.  It's more about peeling away the veils that obscure this from us. 

I think this is what is meant by "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

Nelson Mandela said something like "the thing we most fear is not that we are small but that we are greater than anything we can imagine"

Great quote, and true, I think.

i agree with you about religions, maybe however they provide valuable lessons for mankind as well as a major loosh supply and a source of thoughtform attachements.
The one thing TPTB  dont seem to like is gnostism or the inner journey to truth and light and people waking up to the prison they built with their own minds, no wonder they changed christ's gnostic teachings into a religion.

Yup.  It is up to us to discern the truth therein that sets us free. We each get there when we're ready...

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Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Is nothing eternal? The best of music, architecture, mathmatics, science, didn't come from religion, it came from the spirit. Jesus is a construct built by power mad religions, as is Islam, as is Jewdism, as is, it never ends.  Humans may or maynot be doomed to life eternal but they have certainly been crushed flat for centuries by the holier than thou crowd. The butchery at the hands of the faithful is unforgivable and although the members of this forum may not be the "type" to burn out the non-believers, they are also the "type" to not stop the true believers from their excesses. The sign of Cross, is just disgusting. Witness the destruction of Jerusalem in 1145 ad, at the hands of the first crusade, Pope Urban the 2nd, 40,000 dead by the end of the day, and the beginning of the first Jihad. Don't  crow about your super spiritual abilities when our history is littered with the dead at the hands of the religious. There must be a better way to approach this subject of supreme beings. So far our species has failed misereably to produce a fail safe way to pay attention to some diety without there being mass casualities. Considering the murder and mayhem involved in obtaining eternal life, or whatever, we'd all be better off taking this life for what it is and not even considering anything else. This universe is a construct of physics, not worship.  Why does your deity need worship anyway. Why did Jesus need a virgin. Why did Jesus need to be murdered for sins it own father created in the first place. All this reeks of human stupidity, and not of the creature who did the universe out of physics. There is no sin in the world of physics.  One can spot a real law of the Creator, because you can't break it. Try to break one of the laws of thermodynamics. Try.

55 (edited by Haven 2005-09-25 16:13:09)

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Krazor, if you hate organized religion based on what it's capable of, then you must hate civilization and progress, as well as humanity, too, for all the atrocities it has committed.  Hand in hand with every religious evil you'll see a desire for power, progression, or civilization.  Most of these movements had little to do with religion, other than to cover up the real motivation.  The crimes of people don't negate the goodness of an ideal.  Everything is ugly and evil if you only see the ugly and evil in it.

-----------------------------

T-Ren wrote:

I agree that the inner realization of the God spark or Christ in us is necessary/important, I don't know that I see it as the second coming...I'm still here.

Regarding the Rapture, check this page out:

http://wonderful1.com/wst_page3.html

This person calculates October 4th as a likely date.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

56

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Hate is the wrong word. disgust fills the bill.  Religions, all of them cannot adjust to changes in information, they cannot change one word of their bible, koran, talmud, whatever, but civilizations can adjust. Albeit we are just people, governments can make changes. We can rise above the fetid crap that goes for worship and can build a better tomorrow. The point being that we can change for the better, but none of the religions can change a single word. Yes, disgust is the right word. So much waste. Kinda makes yo wanta stain some glass doesn't it?

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Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Krazor wrote:

<snip>
Considering the murder and mayhem involved in obtaining eternal life, or whatever, we'd all be better off taking this life for what it is and not even considering anything else.

Krazor, again, there is a difference between the esoteric root of religions and the aspects that have been twisted by the PTB.

This universe is a construct of physics, not worship.  Why does your deity need worship anyway.

If you are speaking of Jesus, he specifically said that we were all gods and that we would some day discover that we had even greater powers than he.

Why did Jesus need a virgin. Why did Jesus need to be murdered for sins it own father created in the first place.

Some of this is symbolic, some invented by the PTB. 

All this reeks of human stupidity, and not of the creature who did the universe out of physics. There is no sin in the world of physics.  One can spot a real law of the Creator, because you can't break it. Try to break one of the laws of thermodynamics. Try.

I agree that the cosmos is governed by laws and there is no such thing as a chance occurence.  Above and beyond all those laws is the law of Love.  John Muir said, "Divine Love is the sublime boss of the universe."

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Krazor wrote:

Hate is the wrong word. disgust fills the bill.  Religions, all of them cannot adjust to changes in information, they cannot change one word of their bible, koran, talmud, whatever, but civilizations can adjust. Albeit we are just people, governments can make changes. We can rise above the fetid crap that goes for worship and can build a better tomorrow. The point being that we can change for the better, but none of the religions can change a single word. Yes, disgust is the right word. So much waste. Kinda makes yo wanta stain some glass doesn't it?

I wouldn't say civilizations can adjust any easier than religion.  They end up being empires until someone topples them.  And religion has changed, as there certainly hasn't been a consistent religion since the dawn of man.  I can draw a parallel between the two, and the common denominator is when they get into the hands of power hungry individuals.  These individuals, however, don't negate the good that is in the ideals of humanity.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

59 (edited by Jen 2005-09-26 12:16:11)

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

On the subject of eternal life, I just found this channeling, think it's right on, and it is what Jesus meant when he said "He that believes in me shall never die..."

http://psyosra.bigpondhosting.com/30%20 … ERNITY.htm

excerpt:

In the acceptance of salvation, by aligning with God's will you are not doing yourself out of free will choice at all. In fact, considering that you are indeed a thought in the mind of God, you, by choosing salvation, realign your thoughts to the eternal thus achieving, recognising and appreciating that you indeed are eternal. And in such realisation, you must also realise that you have always been, and will always be.

60

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

This is interesting--a channeling of Yeshua (Jesus).  It's in seven parts
(that number 7 again).  Just read the first part so far and it resonates with me, here 'tis:

http://psyosra.bigpondhosting.com/YeshuaIndex.htm

YESHUA

By Bradley

enlakeach@yahoo.com downloaded from CC Bulletin Board 23 Aug 04

Part 1

Let’s start at the beginning of my life, as you know it. I was born into a very exciting time and into a very exciting place. Of course, I could have chosen any place to incarnate, but Jerusalem and its neighbors, at that time, where at a crossroads of the world. Caravans passed through daily, from all corners of the planet. Such a magnificent confluence and confusion of musical languages and pungent spices and exotic trade! And as with all meccas of commerce, a surprising amount of freedom flourished, and the exchange of knowledge was embraced. This place was also a center of current religious thought, which I would have to experience directly in order to try and encourage its strengths and reveal its weaknesses. Into such a time, and in such a place, a new idea could be planted and its seeds carried to all the lands and all the peoples of the earth. Alexandria and Egypt were other possibilities, as they offered all of these elements as well, but Jerusalem offered one thing more, as it has ever since: conflict. And in times of conflict people are shaken from their lethargies and forced to make choices. I needed to speak to the hearts of those ready to change, who were witness to the corruption of the old powers all around them. I also needed a place of relative freedom of thought. For the most part Rome left Judea alone. Free trade and a certain amount of peace and civility was in their interest. Yes, the religious thought of the time was rigid and steeped in ancient codes of behavior. But that was exactly what I hoped to influence.

Which brings us to the first of many digressions I hope you’ll patiently allow me to take. You see, in order to give you the broadest possible picture of true reality --as you can understand it-- we must become comfortable with what I shall call "spherical thinking," as opposed to linear thinking. Imagine yourself, not standing on a line with the past behind you and the future ahead, but in the center of a sphere with all that has ever existed and ever will exist all around you. Below you is the year 1639. Above 1974. To the left, 3 B.C., to the right, 2034. Science fiction? Actually, no. Sisters and brothers, I tell you now that all that has ever been and all that ever will be exists right now. The Mind of the Creator is not surprised. Nor does It forget. Yet I will add another paradox: The Universe is evolving beyond itself and into something new. And here is a key into this paradox: Reality, as can be conceived, exists primarily on two levels, the level of Creator, and the level of Creation. At the level of Creator, all is known. At the level of Creation, all is experienced. At the Creator level, all is perfect. At the Creation level, all is being perfected, only to be destroyed and perfected again in yet another of an infinite numbers of possibilities. Now, further imagine that the sphere you are at the center of also co-mingles with every one else’s ‘sphere.’ Interesting possibility, isn’t it? And it suggests -- in the simplest way -- a bit of the complexity and harmony of the spiritual universe.

My desire -- as was the desire for each of you before you incarnated -- was to live out the entire human experience from birth onward. And the human birth process is the only way for the discarnate to become material. So much for sex being a sin. It’s an absolute requirement. So just like you, I chose to forget who I was so as to be born with a ‘clean slate.’ Knowledge of a thing is fine, but it is not the same as experience. Describe to another what it is like to be burned by holding the palm over a flame. And then do it yourself. There’s a universe of difference. However, that is not to say that I didn’t place along my path certain ‘sign posts’ of awakening to greater truths of who I truly was. Some of my education would have to be ‘jump started.’ And my dear, brothers and sisters, you do the same thing. Just look back on your life at the sudden right turns, sudden expansions of awareness. Marriages, new jobs, new opportunities. All placed there by your Higher Self far ahead of your journey here. I know it sounds impossible, but some things you will have to take on trust and sit with in your own meditations. The truth will find you. I promise. You might ask, why not wait until the coming of the printing press, or even, for that matter, television. Why arrive in such a dark and desperate time? Because the seeds I meant to plant would need time. I never expected to change the world in my few years on earth, just get things rolling in the right direction. Any earlier and the Source’s thoughts might never have left the insular shores of Greece or China. They might have become diluted before they had a chance to spread. Any later and there would have been no structure in place to effectively preserve what non-diluted, non-abridged ideas remained of those first seeds. I needed a church that would survive rampaging hoards and black plagues. The seed of an oak may take twenty years to mature. The seeds of the soul may take millennia. But it was never my intent for a single church to claim Divine proprietorship over Truth. I merely desired guardianship of certain truths to then be shared with everyone, and to be explored in each individual human heart. And make no mistake, my words have been distorted. But that was to be expected. The authors of the Bible wrote some sixty years after my death. They’d never even met me in the flesh. But core concepts survived: ‘Love God.’ ‘Love one another as yourself.’ ‘All that I have done, you will do, and greater things than these.’ ‘If the Source will care for the lilies of the field, why would She not also care for you, who is made in Her image?’ I really didn’t come to tell you much more than that. My teaching was, and is, simple. It has been made complex. Which brings us to another digression. How one can choose where and when to incarnate? Which, of course, begs the larger question: Have I, in fact, been talking all this time about reincarnation? Let me begin by telling you that reincarnation was very much a belief at the time of my birth. It has been a core concept since the beginning of recorded time. It was removed from the Bible by Constantine during the Nicaea Council in 325. Constantine didn’t much like the idea that those he ruled over might one day return to rule over him. Reincarnation turns the Divine Right of Kings on its head.

Reincarnation is not such a startling concept. It exists all around you in nature. Birth, death and rebirth. Of course, if one adheres to a strictly mechanistic view of the Universe, then, yes, there is very little I will be able to offer to convince you. But if you are even open in the slightest to the possibility that we are spiritual beings having a human experience, then reincarnation should seem obvious. Obvious in that, if I could incarnate once, and said I would do so again, and then also said that you shall do all that I can do, and more; Then why would we only do it once? Do you believe the Universe is so limited that it can transcend space and time and bring spirit into matter -- but only once? Go to your bookstores and read any number of the personal accounts of children being able to speak Aramaic or write ancient Sanskrit at age three. It also helps explain a child such as Mozart. And frankly, if the idea is to grow and learn and become better -- based on the experience of your own lives -- is one lifetime enough? And yes, karma as you understand it exists, and yes, at fundamental levels you shall, eventually, reap absolutely what you have sown. That is a Universal Rule. I will add one note regarding the concept of karma. Some believe that if one had created five lifetimes of negative karma, then five positive lifetimes are required to balance the ‘books.’ This makes the Source little more than an accountant, adding up numbers. The entire purpose of karma is to bring one to a place of self-awareness. Once that awareness has taken place, the rule of karma is no longer needed. So yes, a lifetime of negative energy can be balanced in a single instant. Isn’t that wonderful?

Enough background. As to the actual events of my birth, I still, myself, marvel at the magnificence of it all. The timing, the preparation we each participate in, prior to our arrival. Yes, we consult the stars and planets as they move through their cycles like giant clockworks. Planets and stars and galaxies do influence the subtle energies of our lives. They are the channels, amplifiers, and transducers for the Divine Flow of Light and Love, stepping it down in power as your transformers do, so that the human form can safely contain them. I chose the Piscean Age to incarnate. The Age of Water. The age when world power reigned at the helm of a ship. I incarnated on the Divine energy stream of Love. The Star of Bethlehem was not a star, but the conjunction of Saturn, Jupiter and Mars in the Constellation of Pisces. To the unaided eye of the time, yes, it appeared to be a magnificent star shining in the east. But it did not hover miraculously over my birthplace. The Constellation of Pisces was known to ancient astrologers as the constellation governing Judea. They knew well in advance that the conjunction meant that a Master Teacher was to be born and that he would be born in Judea. The "Three Wise Men of the East" were Chaldean Magi, or astrologers. They didn’t follow a star, they knew exactly where I was to be born. And it took them over a year. And I am sorry to challenge another of the ancient and modern beliefs, but I was not born on December 25th. I was born on August 21. It is well known now that the early church, desiring to stamp out the goddess, Earth-based rituals, simply usurped those "pagan" ritual dates of celebration with those you know today. Prior, December 25th was celebrated as the Winter Equinox. Easter, the spring equinox. And let me state plainly now that that was an error on behalf of the male-dominated priesthoods. Both male and female must be honored in equal measure or the system is out of balance. You can see the results to this day of that unbalanced energy: war, poverty, famine. As a side note: The three Magi did bring gold, frankincense, and myrrh as symbolic gifts. Frankincense was the purest incense and was used to aid their contemplation of the Grand Architect of the Universe. Myrrh symbolized the struggle of mortal life. As a gift to me it signified the understanding that I had chosen to accept the often painful challenges of human life, as have you all. Gold, the symbol of fire, was offered to a great teacher.

And so I came into the world, Yeshua ben Joseph. Yeshua, son of Joseph. Jesus was the Greek translation of my name, and incidentally, pagan in origin, taken from a derivation of the Greek god, Zeus. The Virgin Birth.

The earlier goddess, Earth-based practices celebrated the sexual act as fundamental to life. Obviously so. From two come one. Union. There was a certain uninhibited quality to those early fertility practices. I’m sure your modern imaginations can fill in any blanks. As these practices were halted by the early churches and supplanted by other more...stoic rituals, there grew the belief that sex was ungodly. Original Sin. Adam and Eve. The Garden. The Fall. The concept of the Virgin Birth is present in only two of the Gospels. Mark, John, Paul and Peter make no mention of it in their writings. That does seem a bit odd for such an extraordinary event.

All High Truths come disguised, so that you have to do a little work to uncover them. Wisdom should never be gained easily. Some mental effort must be put forth. Usually these High Truths come disguised in three cloaks. So, the Virgin Birth must be looked at from three levels. At the level of, shall we say, beginner spiritual awareness, people needed to believe that, because I was the "Son of God," that my birth had to be "not of woman." Just as few of you are able this very day to believe me when I say, "You are God also," far, far fewer then would have even been able to hold the concept in their consciousness. After all, how could they be Children of God when their lives were so pitiful, their struggles so difficult? It’s a legitimate question. But one that could not be fully answered then because it would simply not have been comprehended. At, shall we say, the slightly-higher-than-beginner level of spiritual belief -- the priesthood had already decided that women were the tempters of Adam, the serpents in the Garden. No, my birth from a woman by natural causes was also beyond their level of comprehension. But at the level of the mystic, it was well understood that my very mission was to incarnate and remind each one of you of your inherent Divinity. That you were -- are -- each one of you -- God-in-woman; God-in-man. The very idea of a virgin birth puts each of you at a distance from the Source, and from my teaching. And let me also offer that all women of that time who were of a certain age, or unmarried, were called virgins, or maidens. It did not necessarily have anything to do with their sexual natures.

No, my beloved brothers and sisters, you are not separate from the Source, or my teachings, or the Buddha’s teachings, or Krishna’s and Mohammed's, or the Great Spirit’s, or whomever else’s words you find solace in. You are those teachings. You are the Source made manifest, in all your seeming failing and unexpected magnificence. No. There was no Virgin Birth. Mary, my mother, was as much a woman as any of you out in this audience. I came through the veil as do you all, via the sexual union of a man and a woman. And Glory be to The Mother/Father for creating such a sublime method of turning Spirit into flesh. For human desire -- not to be confused with loveless addiction -- is the same desire the Divine uses to create universes. Sexual union, when joined in love and honor and joy is a great and wonderful gift. It is not now nor has it ever been in the Eyes of All That Is in any way unholy. Nothing born of the Creator can be unholy or an affront to God, because the Source is Everything. Nothing is outside of the Divine Manifestor.

I know, you are now entertaining all sorts of questions of good and evil. Later, my sisters and brothers. Be patient with me.