• Registered: 2005-07-09

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

T-Ren wrote:

I can't comment on when Christ is coming back, because though I look forward to it, if I'm not living right now as "I should" then it don't matter when he comes back... I can't say I'm gettin' in but if I am putting forth the effort I say I am in.

There are 3 indicators of the time to my knowledge

1) His resurection was prophetic, on the 3rd day, as a day represents 1000 years in prophecy, the 2nd coming will be on 2030, on the third day (thousand years) after his death

2) Within a generation of the setting forth of the fig tree (creation of Israel in 1948)

3) The final days will be cut short , lest no one be saved (Revelation) so the return will probably be before 2030


Also from revelation certain events will happen first: The NWO taking power openly, the NWO/UN moving to Jerusalem, one person being appointed as World ruler (aka Antichrist), cashless society (no man may buy or sell unless they accept the mark of the beast - NWO), destruction of the NWO.

Of course this is only my interpretation arrived at by reading the Bible and what other people have written.

32 Reply by GibbleTronic (edited by GibbleTronic 2005-09-23 03:03:27)

  • Registered: 2005-02-08

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Jen wrote:

As for the Rapture that everyone keeps talking about that's supposed to happen sometime soon, I've already had mine, so I guess that all I have to do now is be patient. In the meantime, if someone asks me if I'm a Christian, I reply to them: "Yes, but only in the Gnostic sense.
Do you find that you have to explain to them what that means?  If so, how do you phrase it?

I don't like explaining myself to most people unless I think they are in a position to understand and learn from what I have to say, so to some people, I don't explain myself at all. To believers of rules, rote, and literalism, I am just as much of a heretic to them as they are people seriously missing the point to me, so I'm just saving them the time required to pass judgement, and we can each go on our merry way.

I suppose that I just got tired of people thinking that memorizing this chapter and/or that verse while applying unadulterated, blatantly transparent self-interest and justifying such activity as "righteous" just reeks of hypocrisy, and to those who listen, I stress that the real answers are alive and singing inside of each of us and if they can just shut up for a while and learn how to listen, then they might learn how to sing and dance!

Hey there Auendove. Been away for a while, was gravely hounded by STS agents day and night, who stopped once they learned that I can summon hurricanes.. lol

  • From: terra incognita
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

GibbleTronic wrote:

Hey there Auendove. Been away for a while, was gravely hounded by STS agents day and night, who stopped once they learned that I can summon hurricanes.. lol

lol

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol

34 Reply by Jen

  • Jen
  • Guest

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

So, Jazreel and T-Ren,  it sounds like you see the second coming of Christ as a literal person appearing. Do you resonate at all with what I said about the second coming as the inner realization of Christ consciousness? 

As Haven and Energy said, Christ is always with us.   There is a often a veil separating us from that consciousness, but I see the coming changes as the veil being lifted.

"And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." --T.S. Eliot

35 Reply by Jen (edited by Jen 2005-09-23 12:38:21)

  • Jen
  • Guest

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

GibbleTronic wrote:

I don't like explaining myself to most people unless I think they are in a position to understand and learn from what I have to say, so to some people, I don't explain myself at all. To believers of rules, rote, and literalism, I am just as much of a heretic to them as they are people seriously missing the point to me, so I'm just saving them the time required to pass judgement, and we can each go on our merry way.

I hear ya.  I recently had an email exchange with one of these people
(initiated by him).  He thought he had some "God-truth" that I needed.
His God-truth seems to be that we need God's intervention in order to get to heaven.  He was not receptive to my viewpoint that we are not separate from God, and that "heaven" is within us, even though Jesus himself said this!

To give him credit, after a few exchanges, he realized that we had completely opposite points of view and there was nothing to be gained by further discussion.

I suppose that I just got tired of people thinking that memorizing this chapter and/or that verse while applying unadulterated, blatantly transparent self-interest and justifying such activity as "righteous" just reeks of hypocrisy, and to those who listen, I stress that the real answers are alive and singing inside of each of us and if they can just shut up for a while and learn how to listen, then they might learn how to sing and dance! l

Yes, that's about what I said to him as well--that we each must find our own answers and use our intuition.  That wasn't "objective" enough for him.

Objective, schmobjective big_smile

  • From: terra incognita
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Jen wrote:

Objective, schmobjective big_smile

Well smile , the article I'm posting here may very well fall into this category, but I'll post it anyway... for the sake of exploring the mystery of Jesus from a secular point of view.

The article is rather lengthy, yet for the inquiring mind about the non/existence of the person Jesus of Nazareth there's a plethora of information. I've quoted two passages I found interesting, and the third quote is the closing paragraph that clearly states the tone of the article. The article is found on a web site called "The Secular Web."

http://www.infidels.org/library/histori … _live.html

The question, "Did Jesus Christ Really Live?" goes to the very root of the conflict between reason and faith; and upon its determination depends, to some degree, the decision as to whether religion or humanity shall rule the world.

Christ is supposed to have been a Jew, and his disciples are said to have been Jewish fishermen. His language, and the language of his followers must, therefore, have been Aramaic -- the popular language of Palestine in that age. But the Gospels are written in Greek -- every one of them. Nor were they translated from some other language. Every leading Christian scholar since Erasmus, four hundred years ago, has maintained that they were originally written in Greek. This proves that they were not written by Christ's disciples, or by any of the early Christians. Foreign Gospels, written by unknown men, in a foreign tongue, several generations after the death of those who are supposed to have known the facts -- such is the evidence relied upon to prove that Jesus lived.

The Jesus Christ of the Gospels could not possibly have been a real person. He is a combination of impossible elements. There may have lived in Palestine, nineteen centuries ago, a man whose name was Jesus, who went about doing good, who was followed by admiring associates, and who in the end met a violent death. But of this possible person, not a line was written when he lived, and of his life and character the world of to-day knows absolutely nothing. This Jesus, if he lived, was a man; and if he was a reformer, he was but one of many that have lived and died in every age of the world. When the world shall have learned that the Christ of the Gospels is a myth, that Christianity is untrue, it will turn its attention from the religious fictions of the past to the vital problems of to-day, and endeavor to solve them for the improvement of the well-being of the real men and women whom we know, and whom we ought to help and love.

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol
  • Haven
  • Haven
  • bull in a china shop
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  • Registered: 2004-11-24

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

I don't think the gospels were written by the original apostles.  There seems to be something going on as to why there are four and what they represent.

http://www.stmarycoptorthodox.org/four_evangelists.htm

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

38 Reply by SS Elephant (edited by SS Elephant 2005-09-23 21:32:26)

  • From: City of Angels
  • Registered: 2005-06-25

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

I think that mostly people who are celebrated today by others -- Jesus, the Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed, Zoraster, etc -- were historical people.  I think most ordinary people wouldn't have the imagination to make some person like that up.

I think what happened is that these people were likely revered by a small group  (only 12 people followed Jesus, if we believe the gospels) but maybe nothing too large. 

After they died, some of the followers realized they could win power over others by seizing control of the message left behind by these individuals. They could gain followers by preaching a message that might appeal to a wide audience. 

Thus the original messages were accordingly monopolized (and changed/corrupted) by followers who had an interest in maintaining power.

Whatever truths they may have preached have probably been hidden by thousands of years of this type of human squabbling.

But there are grains that still remain, and I find that it can be worthwhile to read this literature with a discerning mind -- it is possible to still gleam wisdom, at least I have.

In my mind, they were mortal -- nothing better or worse than you or I.  And for me that has always been a humbling thought.

Your focus determines your reality -- Qui Gon Jinn

39 Reply by Jen

  • Jen
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Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Auendove wrote:
Jen wrote:

Objective, schmobjective big_smile

Well smile , the article I'm posting here may very well fall into this category, but I'll post it anyway... for the sake of exploring the mystery of Jesus from a secular point of view.

<snip>

the third quote is the closing paragraph that clearly states the tone of the article. The article is found on a web site called "The Secular Web."

http://www.infidels.org/library/histori … _live.html

The Jesus Christ of the Gospels could not possibly have been a real person. He is a combination of impossible elements. There may have lived in Palestine, nineteen centuries ago, a man whose name was Jesus, who went about doing good, who was followed by admiring associates, and who in the end met a violent death. But of this possible person, not a line was written when he lived, and of his life and character the world of to-day knows absolutely nothing. This Jesus, if he lived, was a man; and if he was a reformer, he was but one of many that have lived and died in every age of the world. When the world shall have learned that the Christ of the Gospels is a myth, that Christianity is untrue, it will turn its attention from the religious fictions of the past to the vital problems of to-day, and endeavor to solve them for the improvement of the well-being of the real men and women whom we know, and whom we ought to help and love.

Hm, I seem to recall GibbleTronic mentioning people who are "seriously missing the point" about Christianity.  Writers like this strike me as being in that crowd. 

It could be true that the Jesus story is a myth. I and others here have already said that it's irrelevant whether he actually lived or not.  To quote Seth:  "Myths are vast psychic dramas, more truthful than facts."
However the teachings of Jesus came to be, no one can deny the enormous impact they've had throughout history.

The last sentence shows a cluelessness that is truly breathtaking in its scope.  The "religious fictions" of forgiveness, non-judgment and love
that are the esoteric root of true Christianity (and of all other genuine religions as well)  are where we have to start when it comes to solving the "vital problems of to-day", if we would only apply them en masse.

40 Reply by Jen

  • Jen
  • Guest

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Neville's point of view is diametrically opposite to that of the writer posted by Auendove. He boldly proclaims that Jesus is a myth, and explains why the myth is real.

http://www.aznewage.com/jesus.htm

[excerpt]

Neville wrote:

Jesus Christ is not a person, but God’s plan of redemption which must be discovered and understood. One must wear a body of flesh and blood in order to enter this world, but it takes a spiritual body to enter the kingdom of heaven, and my words are spirit!

No man can set you free. This man called Neville is simply an agent expressing truth. It is not good enough for you to just understand it. You must believe, not in Neville, but in the truth he is expressing.

I am telling you what I have experienced. Jesus Christ, God’s story of salvation, has been fulfilled in me. I have experienced the birth, the discovery of God’s only begotten son David, the splitting of the temple and the ascent of the Son of man into heaven and the descent of the dove.

The majority of the people of the world will not accept my story. They want a person on the outside as their personal savior, unwilling to believe that their savior is a plan of salvation who is God Himself!

Now I ask you. do you believe in scripture? It is said that, “Among those born of woman, none is greater than John the Baptist, yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." If you insist upon believing that Jesus Christ is a man of flesh and blood, and the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John the Baptist, then John is greater than Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ, God’s plan of salvation, is a supernatural drama. It hasn’t a thing to do with any child which came (or comes) from the womb of a woman. His story takes place in an entirely different area of the mind. Read the 6th, 8th, 18th and 19th chapters of John to discover the wonderful hiddenness of Christ recorded there.

In the eyes of hundreds of millions of people, Jesus was Joseph’s son, but Jesus does not make that confession. He tells you, “I have come down from heaven, not to do my will, but the will of him who sent me, and heaven is within."

How can Jesus be sent from heaven and be Joseph, a mortal man’s son? When asked who his father was Jesus answered, “You know neither me nor my Father, for it you knew me you would know my Father also." In other words, if you know Christ in the true sense of the word, you know he is yourself. You will know your Father is he who is called God. Although it takes a man to express God’s plan, Christ cannot be seen by mortal eyes. He can only be known and experienced as God’s plan of salvation.

  • T-Ren
  • T-Ren
  • work in progress
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  • From: Earth Lab
  • Registered: 2004-11-17

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Hey Jen,
I do think Jesus Christ was a real historic person. I don't know that I believe the second coming to be a flesh and blood person because I really have not thought or studied about it.

I agree that the inner realization of the God spark or Christ in us is necessary/important, I don't know that I see it as the second coming...I'm still here.

Peace,
Teddy

"It means the Matrix can't tell you who you are" - Trinity
  • From: The Singularity
  • Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

I think that I can speak to this from my own personal experience. 

As a very young boy I read stories from the Bible about Jesus, and I vividly remember having feelings that something wasn't right about the stories.  It felt like something was missing, or distorted somehow.  There was a part of me that wanted to scream "No that's not how it happened!"

Many years later I came across other versions of the events of the standard Gospels, including sources such as the Urantia book, various other channeled writings, alternate gospel versions, etc.  Of course when all compared to each other, most or all of them must be incorrect due to the sheer number of discrepancies.

Yet I always felt a personal connection to these works, as if I were comparing the writings to my own experience.  Now let me say that I have never been on the Jesus bandwagon and I'm not one of those people who "found" Jesus and changed my ways.

However a couple of years ago I received what I consider positive confirmation that I lived in the time of Jesus and was a student of his teachings. 

I think that it is important to remember that 2000+ years have passed since the events of his life.  I think that Jesus may have indeed been a revolutionary in his time, but now there are thousands upon thousands of people who have the same level of awareness now that he had back then.  Do not forget that even his chosen apostles could barely grasp at the concepts he was preaching while so many of us today consider his teachings self-evident.  As well consider that the entity incarnated as Jesus has also been evolving throughout this time, and what choices he has made in the interim who can say?

In any case it's the message that counts, and someone somewhere must be the source of it.  Whatever name we give to that source is secondary. .

It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.

43 Reply by Krazor

  • Krazor
  • Guest

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

Some people do not like the Idea of Jesus, do not like the beliefs in Jesus and consider the entire story to be poppycock and worse. And if Jesus shows up with hords of heaven, we'd better have an election about It taking control of the planet, otherwise I'm getting out old betsy and he won't live to get crucified again.

  • From: US
  • Registered: 2004-09-21

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

tenetnosce wrote:

Yet I always felt a personal connection to these works, as if I were comparing the writings to my own experience.  Now let me say that I have never been on the Jesus bandwagon and I'm not one of those people who "found" Jesus and changed my ways.

However a couple of years ago I received what I consider positive confirmation that I lived in the time of Jesus and was a student of his teachings.

That is kinda how I feel.  I am not sure of the details of his life, but there's just something so familiar about "Jesus".

Never Give Up!

freeme's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-07

Re: The Mystery of Jesus

For me, believing in--and knowing of--a Divine Oneness, and observing that there are beings who have a clearer link with that Oneness than others, it's only logical that there would be a being with an impeccable link with the Oneness that is devoted to helping as many as possible clarify their link, too.  ...Whew!  That was a mouthful.

If the project of creation is infinite, then there are probably an INFINITE number of highly clear beings serving the less clear.

I feel a special rapport with "Jesus," too.  Growing up, I didn't--even though I was raised Christian.  It wasn't until I had a high-powered lucid dream till that rapport really began. 

The dream in brief:

I was wandering through a decimated, deserted city.  I came to a big warehouse-like building and a man and woman greeted me outside and eagerly invited me in, telling me that had something to show me.  They disappeared and then returned with the crucified Jesus, bloody and wrapped in a white shroud.  At this point I knew I was dreaming.  The man and woman instructed me to lie on the floor spreadeagle.  I did.  They placed the wrapped-up head of Jesus between my calves.  Immediately after they placed the body I began vibrate all over, and my dream "energy body" rocked to and fro.  I separated from my body.  (I had an OBE in a lucid dream).  I shot upwards and out of the building and entered an endless cloudscape rippling with whites and pinks and ambers.  Music of the spheres--the whole bit.  There was a silent knowing inside me that that cloudscape--that vast, joyous energy field--was Jesus and that I had had the dream in order to transcend the cultural image of the poor, crucified martyr.  There was a silent knowing that Jesus isn't "Jesus," that the energy of this being is transhuman and much larger than I previously imagined.

You can't change a tiger's stripes,
but you can avoid its teeth.