16 (edited by thook 2005-07-17 21:23:34)

Re: How are we supposed to feel?

I mean no offense, Will. Their is no real threat to America other than by members of our gov. and elite ruling classes. If anything the real threat is in America. I understand that the men and women believe that they are doing something for our country. But, if these folks were not programmed into believing what they are doing is a good thing their conscience would hit them square on realizing war has never solved anything and our military since inception has rairly if ever been used to actually defend our country. If you read about alot of these soldiers they have become nothing more than mindless killers. They are pawns. Some have awakened to this fact and have told their stories. The altruistic idea of being a defender of our country is at present nothing more than a charade, a myth. Has been for a long time. Long time. What these soldiers are acting on is a " program" and not any "real" inner motivation or any real threat to America as a "free" country. Nothing wrong with cheering if there anything to really be cheering about.Other than, of course, the fact the ones that returned weren't killed. Many have been maimed for life, though.

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant

Re: How are we supposed to feel?

I have to agree with thook - where is the threat that our military is supposed to be defending?  I don't believe these boys and men and women really know what their service is all about.  The story would make one believe that they were conquering war heroes returning home.  I'm sorry, but I just don't see it that way at all.  And I believe that many others don't either.  That is why enlistments are at rock bottom. 

Before 9/11 did we even have the word "terrorist" in our vocabulary?  Well, yes, maybe on some small scale.  But today, because of our military presence in Iraq, the word terrorist is a daily word that has spread all over the world.  I feel we have caused more terrorism than we have abated.  Should I applaud that?

I'm all for, and gung-ho, for any soldier who is defending me, mine, ours.  Our home and homeland.  But this senseless fiasco is nothing to be proud of or to cheer for and obviously more and more young people are waking up to that and not joining the fray. 

I can't remember exactly the quote - but Einstein said something about the peacemakers of the future being those who refused to go to war.

Enlightenment happens!  Attachment to the ego-self leads one into delusion; but faith in one's Buddha nature leads one to enlightenment.

Re: How are we supposed to feel?

Well what I'm saying is that what if there was in invasion on our homeland? These soldiers would be the ones to defend our country.

Re: How are we supposed to feel?

Homeland? The entire Earth is my homeland.

20 (edited by lyra 2005-07-18 14:20:06)

Re: How are we supposed to feel?

will1129 wrote:

Well what I'm saying is that what if there was in invasion on our homeland?

What *if* there was an invasion?  It's already begun.  It's called 9/11.   An event that they masterminded.   The invasion's already begun, 4 years ago. 


will1129 wrote:

These soldiers would be the ones to defend our country.

Consider this regarding U.S. vulnerability to invasion, and what our home turf defenses are:  (assuming you're from the U.S.....)

A.  The U.S. Military has been downsized to such an extent since the 90's that we're now a sitting duck, essentially, just begging to be invaded.   Why would the government downsize the military and close dozens of bases around the U.S. unless they were trying to make us vulnerable?

B.  Enlistment is also down like never before, further contributing to this issue;  It's all the military can do to get people to join.   They're at the point of taking any old yahoo who wants to join, they don't care anymore, as well as resorting to harrassment and stalking of any pottential recruit, begging in desparation for them to join.   So our military capability is NOTHING like what is used to be, or what it could be.   Not that I'm advocating war and death and saying "PUMP UP THE TROOPS!! STACK UP THE NUKES!!  RAH RAH RAH!"   But it's a valid point, that U.S. soil is very vulnerable right now, and they've deliberately created this situation.  It didn't have to become this way.   

C.  And meanwhile, Bushy keeps sending whatever troops we do have on hand away from here and putting them over there, to "defend" us in a war the government created in the first place, against a country that was never at any point a threat to our lives.   Only a threat to our oil supply.    And all of which is another factor in our home turf vulnerability.  Where are all of our troops?   Being shipped off to the middle east in droves.  On planes, on ships, any way they can get them over there, literally herding troops into a death trap as fast as they can.   They don't care.

And that's the gist.  Things are not what they'd like you to believe.  You're free to cheer the troops on when they come home of course, but I advise not buying into the fact that they will somehow be able to defend us in the event of another invasion or attack.   They won't.  We don't have enough troops, or bases.    What we do have however is a heavily armed shadow government that could do quite a bit of damage to the population if they ever decide to go that route.  And I don't mean armed in the traditional sense of the word as in guns and bombs and tanks.  I mean microwave technology and mind control waves that inflict serious health issues, if not incapacitate / kill people with a few specially directed beams. 

So really, all this surface layer talk about low military enlistment, and closed bases, and wars in the Middle East are just decoy distractions when you think about it so nobody notices what's really going on. 

But that's just my 2 cents!   smile

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

Re: How are we supposed to feel?

I'm freaked! Ahhh!

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant

Re: How are we supposed to feel?

will1129 wrote:

Well what I'm saying is that what if there was in invasion on our homeland? These soldiers would be the ones to defend our country.

Have you ever asked when the last time an American soldier was killed defending America?

Whist you are cheering the returning troops, just spare a thought for the 100,000 dead Iraquis and the many more who have lost a family member or friend.

Things are not anything like they appear, for at least 100 years American (and British) troops have just been used as pawns for the Elite, to be sacrificed where necessary.

Re: How are we supposed to feel?

The elites don't care about "our" troops or "their" troops.  To them they are just cannon fodder, pawns in their game.

Our borders are wide open, and they are sending able bodied American men and women to a country whose population has suffered beyond comprehension, to kill men, women, and children.  Period.  For no sane reason.  Not one.  None.  And they willingly go.

They have heaped upon an entire population/country utter horrors, not even comprehendible.  They have poisoned their land and water with depleted uranium, utterly destroyed what was once a functional society, and in the process "our" troops have also been exposed to that deadly poison, which will ensure a lifetime of debilitation, sickness, and a likely early death. 

What, in that scenario, is there to cheer about?

Re: How are we supposed to feel?

Lyra said:

What *if* there was an invasion?  It's already begun.  It's called 9/11.   An event that they masterminded.   The invasion's already begun, 4 years ago.

I'd have to stretch my imagination to call that an invasion.  9/11 was a covert act planned by God only knows who.  When our own leaders are implicit in such an act, I don't consider than an invasion.  I think TPTB are counting on the people thinking of it in such a way so that they can continue with their war.  Now putting troops onto foreign shores for the purpose of overthrowing the government - that's an invasion.

I feel, and of course we all have our own personal beliefs and feelings, that most soldiers are sold a bill of goods.  They really don't understand the politics of what is actually taking place.  If they did, a good majority of them would not enlist.  Still, there are always going to be a few rah rah boys.  People who come from military families and see that as a way of life, or people who are angry and want to get even, or people who don't believe they will ever be on the wrong end of a bullet, or people who need education and training so badly they are willing to risk their life, or people who revel in the military lifestyle, or people who want to kill someone, etc. etc.

Enlightenment happens!  Attachment to the ego-self leads one into delusion; but faith in one's Buddha nature leads one to enlightenment.

25 (edited by Barefoot Doc 2005-07-19 07:33:28)

Re: How are we supposed to feel?

World war 2, while British and American Soldiers gave their lives, the city of London and American companies were supplying Hitler with funding and materials. The huge chemical company located in Germany IG Farben without which Hitler could never have launched his war was an American company, this plant was never bombed during WW2 to the utter amazement of the allies.
The UK knew of the concentration camps years earlier but were quite happy to let it happen.
All wars are contrived by the TPTB, there is no "dying for your country" anymore. GWBs rotten grandfather Prescott supported the Nazis while American soldiers were giving their lives. That was all 60 years ago, the Nazis officially lost but really won the war.

We even get the "liberal" polititians who "did not support the war" but support the troops regardless" how does that work?

At the risk of sounding harsh perhaps welcoming soldiers back home with cheers who have been involved in killing 100,000 people and turning  Iraq into a radiation zone deserve to come home to jeers instead and know that many of us do not in any way support them.

At least in WW2 the programming was better people really did honestly believe they were defending their country (we know better now)
but nowadays its in the open that soldiers are just mere fodder who are sacrificed for TPTB in their games which is probably why recriutment is an all time low. The army has always attracted an element of bullies and thugs as Sheesh says who are alwyas happy to kill anyone.

Its not like we are fractions of the whole but rather versions of the whole.

Re: How are we supposed to feel?

Here's a good article that parrots what Doc is saying.

Former Vietnam Combat and Commericail Pilot Firm Believer 9/11 Was Inside Government Job
By Greg Szymanski – Sunday 17 July, 2005

There was no fooling former Air Force and commercial pilot Russ Wittenberg the morning of 9/11. He knew it was an inside job from the get-go, knowing the ‘big boys’ were up to the same dirty tricks they played in the Kennedy assassination and Pearl Harbor.

The government may have fooled millions of Americans with its cockamamie official story, but the former fighter pilot who flew over 100 combat missions in Vietnam and who sat for 35 years in the cockpit for Pan Am and United, wasn’t one of them.

Now, almost four years later, Wittenberg is still shaking his head in disbelief more than ever, saying the country he loved and fought so bravely 40 years ago has fallen in the deep, dark and sinister hands of fascist leaders who are quickly turning America into a military state.

Although back in the beginning he seemed like a lone wolf in the hen house, he’s noticed, especially in the last six months, more Americans waking up to the cold reality that the U.S. government staged 9/1l, started an illegal war in Iraq and basically is criminally responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent lives here and abroad.

Even though it’s a hard pill for some to swallow, Wittenberg says Americans need to “wake up and wake up fast,”  holding those in government responsible even though it may mean a total makeover of the American political system.

And for these despicable actions now taking place in the name of freedom, the former F-100 Vietnam fighter pilot, who knows what it’s like to be in harms way, directed a little military jab toward the Commander and Chief, saying: “Oh, why doesn’t he wake up and just fall on his sword.”

Talking about his obvious disgust for the Bush administration, he bundles 9/11 into the neo con’s “neat little contrived war package,”  saying it was the lynch pin needed to usher in a state of constant fear, a climate of war and a perfect setting for the unconstitutional Patriot Act and eventual martial law.

“If you would have told me back in the 1970s this was going to happen to America, I would have never imagined it. It’s just not the same country I grew up in as all our Constitutional freedoms are being stripped away right before our very eyes,”  said Wittenberg in a telephone conversation from his home in Carefree Az., a picturesque and serene place on the map near Scottsdale.

“The government story they handed us about 9/11 is total B.S. plain and simple. I also thoroughly went over the recent 9/11 Commission report, finding about 110 outright lies and numerous other half-truths and omissions in an obvious cover-up of not only the truth but of a criminal investigation.

“Condaleeza Rice lied through her teeth when she testified and if I would have had her on the stand for 10 minutes, I would have had her in tears.”

Concerning 9/11, Wittenberg knew right off the bat the hijackers - who couldn’t handle a Piper Cub - couldn’t fly the ‘big birds”  he flew for so many years, knowing the planes were also incapable of performing such high speed maneuvers as the government claimed.

He also knew the possibility of jet fuel bringing down the towers made no sense. In fact, he knew the whole 9/11 story made about as much sense as crossing the Atlantic in a row boat.

And right after 9/11 when it was unpopular and considered almost treasonous to question the government, Wittenberg became the first commercial airline pilot with experience flying the jets used in 9/11 to publicly denounce the government story.

Although speaking publicly on many occasions about the fictitious government account of 9/11, it wasn’t until Sept. 16, 2004, his controversial remarks aired on Wing TV, sparking a heated debate among pilots and others clinging to the flimsy government account.

Knowing the flight characteristics of the “big birds”  like the back of his hand, Wittenberg convincingly argued there was absolutely no possibility that Flight 77could have “descended 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 270 degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon’s first floor wall without touching the lawn.”

Wittenberg claimed the high speed maneuver would have surely stalled the jetliner sending it into a nose dive, adding it was “totally impossible for an amateur who couldn’t even fly a Cessna to maneuver the jetliner in such a highly professional manner, something Wittenberg said he couldn’t do with 35 years of commercial jetliner experience.

“For a guy to just jump into the cockpit and fly like an ace is impossible – there is not one chance in a thousand,”  said Wittenberg, recalling that when he made the jump from Boeing 727’s to the highly sophisticated computerized characteristics of the 737’s through 767’s it took him considerable time to feel comfortable flying.

“I had to be trained to use the new, computerized systems. I just couldn’t jump in and fly one,”  he added.

Finding more inconsistencies with the government story about Flight 77, Wittenberg recalled the recent statements made by a flight controller on an ABC 20/20 television program three months ago.

“If you listened to her carefully only an experienced pilot probably would have known that what she was saying was scripted,”  said Wittenberg. “Remember the transponder was turned off on Flight 77 and when this occurs, all the particular flight data like air speed and even the plane’s flight identification goes with it.

“All that’s left on the controller’s screen is a green blip, that’s it. But here you have this flight controller on 20/20 saying she was tracking the flight with specific air speed and other coordinates which was totally impossible once the transponder was turned off. How would she even have known the flight number? The whole story is a pack of lies and this is just another example.”

And from the moment Wittenberg called attention to the lies, he’s been in the cross hairs defending his story, defending it by using a little bit of psychology, a lot of history and asking critics to answer questions before drawing conclusions.

“I’ve learned over the years, it’s hard to change anybody’s mind when they really aren’t listening,”  said Wittenberg. “So, I just decided to fire back a lot of questions to those people who believe the government story.

“I ask them explain how Building No.7 collapsed? I ask them why haven’t the “black boxes”  been recovered? I ask them to explain how jet fuel – fuel that burns cold not hot -- could bring down two high rise structures when more than 90% of the fuel on board burned outside the buildings?”

And Wittenberg has hundreds of other tough questions ready, but said it’s also important to put 9/11 and the Iraq war in a historical prospective.

“Is 9/11 and the phony war on terror any different or more serious than Pearl Harbor and World War II?,”  asks Wittenberg. “The bottom line is all wars are contrived and it is these rich bankers and financiers who have pulled the strings and who have put these contrived events like 9/11 and Pearl Harbor into motion.”

Turning to the recent London bombings, Wittenberg said he’s tired of the “talking heads’ trying to analyze how to counter terror when “the real cause and effect issues”  about the root problems with America and the world are being ignored.

“It’s simply bizarre. Maybe our one-sided foreign policy that keeps getting us into all this trouble around the world should be seriously questioned,”  said Wittenberg. “If we are really fighting terror, why are our borders just to the south completely wide open? It’s a joke.”

Claiming the entire neo con scenario now playing out in America and around the world is based on the attempt to establish a one world government controlled by a select few, he said it’s difficult to figure out their true motives, adding he can only offer an educated guess based on what he’s studied and read.

“Power corrupts, money isn’t enough and these people want total control,”  added Wittenberg. “These elites actually think they are better than everybody else and basically want power and control over the diminishing resources by creating a one world government.

Regarding another terror attack on American soil coming on the heels of the London bombings, he said “it’s not if but when,”  claiming the unconstitutional Patriot Act is waiting in the wings to silence those Americans who may not fall in line with the government’s eventual takeover.

“They passed it for a reason. The problem with our two party system is that the same group of gangsters controls both parties,”  said Wittenberg, who didn’t vote for Bush or Kerry in the last election and was the former Arizona state chairman for Pat Buchanon’s failed presidential run in 2000.

Although Wittenberg remains politically active and abreast of world affairs, he has left the political forefront, trying instead to raise public awareness about the danger of the neo con agenda.

“More people are listening now, but it doesn’t surprise me that still a lot of people just don’t want to get involved, thinking things are just fine in America,”  he added. “These people are perfectly content to play golf, watch the ballgame and not get involved.”

Wittenberg, who retired the day before 9/11 having a strange and unexplainable premonition, said high gas prices have led him to sell his private plane, saying it was getting too expensive to even “fly for fun’ anymore.

Enlightenment happens!  Attachment to the ego-self leads one into delusion; but faith in one's Buddha nature leads one to enlightenment.

Re: How are we supposed to feel?

Sheesh wrote:

Lyra said:

What *if* there was an invasion?  It's already begun.  It's called 9/11.   An event that they masterminded.   The invasion's already begun, 4 years ago.

I'd have to stretch my imagination to call that an invasion.  9/11 was a covert act planned by God only knows who.  When our own leaders are implicit in such an act, I don't consider than an invasion.  I think TPTB are counting on the people thinking of it in such a way so that they can continue with their war.  Now putting troops onto foreign shores for the purpose of overthrowing the government - that's an invasion.

Guess it wasn't clear what I meant.  For starters, I believe that the United States, and probably Israel, worked together to mastermind 9/11.  It was the shadow governments, not the front stage puppets they parade in front of us.   And by invasion it's a case of an open attack on U.S. soil which hasn't been "allowed" to happen in decades.  We've been given protection, since TPTB determine who gets bombed and attacked and when and how.  But our # has been called, our ticket it up, so, protection has been lifted and now it's going to be a free for all, I'm sure.  Anyway, invasion isn't the right word, and not the one that I would choose for labeling 9/11, but Will mentioned "what if an invasion...." and all I could think was...hell, stuff's already begun!  It's already happening!   

Anyway, just some clarification.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

Re: How are we supposed to feel?

Yall wanna talk about invasion. Let's talk about what is gonna happen when/if these supposed underground bases open up! Well, I guess that's for another thread. Hey, wait a minute my floor is rumbling.....

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant

Re: How are we supposed to feel?

Hummm.  I just had a thought.  Maybe TPTP aren't worried about enlistments because they have another source pool for soldiers.  Nah.....  that's crazy.  sad  !

Enlightenment happens!  Attachment to the ego-self leads one into delusion; but faith in one's Buddha nature leads one to enlightenment.

30

Re: How are we supposed to feel?

Invasion, if you like. How about a "coup"? Is that preferable? In any case, I agree with Lyra and others that IT has already occurred; for the most part, we are pretty much screwed! Surely that last bit isn't debatable?  wink