16 (edited by Sheesh 2005-05-16 06:33:16)

Re: December 21, 2012

I guess we can all believe what we choose to can't we?  For example, I don't believe in Yahweh, so I do not believe that my essence or vibration would resonate to that system.  Robert Monroe goes into great detail about these system overlords in his writings and from my own personal experiences thus far, I've found this to be true. 

Why would we waste our time worrying about this as it only serves to create false illusions and maya.  You know, some people cannot bear to be alone - and so they create these illusions to keep them company.  We must learn to have intelligent faith in our own power, strength, and being. 

Perhaps I speak this way because I've had encounters with reptiles in dreams and astral travels and rebuffed them.  Perhaps I am over confident, but I choose this and there is a comfort and peace in it.   The 4D realms are the realms of the mind.  What do you think will happen to you?  They can't cut off your arm... so your mind is the only thing they can attack.  Where are our thoughts?  In servitude and depression?   Do we not realize how powerful our thoughts are? Coupled with love - are we not invincible?

Enlightenment happens!  Attachment to the ego-self leads one into delusion; but faith in one's Buddha nature leads one to enlightenment.

Re: December 21, 2012

Aprogas wrote:

I checked in a space simulation program (Celestia), but there the Galactic Center (GC), Sol and Earth don't exactly align (it comes close though) on 21 december 2012 at 11:11 UTC (the exact time of the winter solstice, http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/EarthSeasons.html).

Celestia is correct, the closest alignment does not occur in 2012 but in 1999. You can check with astronomical tools (celestia is not really suited) and online astronomical databases. The 2012 alignment hype has nothing to do with mainstream astronomy. If you track down the source of the 2012 alignment you find that this source claims (in hindsight) to have made a mistake. Intentional, unintentional or even though unintentional: intentional in the greater scheme of things, who knows.

the eyes of truth are always watching you

18 (edited by wandering1 2006-04-24 22:24:27)

Re: December 21, 2012

E3mpirical1 wrote:

One 'side-effect' about the shift is that time is speeding up, as they say.

This speeding up of time is the effect that I currently feel most directly.  For example, the period from January 1, 2005 to May 15, 2005 was the fastest 4 1/2 months that I recall.  This keeps happening and I have noticed this for about the past two years.

I have heard the theory about time seeming to speed up as we get older, but I do not think that this explains the whole effect that I have been feeling.  That theory states that 4 months when you are 8 years old (or so), seems longer as it is proportionally a longer period of your life than when you are an adult.

Here's a thread on "The speeding up of time... "
http://noblerealms.org/forum/viewtopic. … 34&p=1

Re: December 21, 2012

It occurred to me that we should consider that space and time are only relevant in 3D, therefore any talk of time and date have no meaning when talking of 4D where all events are occurring at the same moment.  See - I can't even speak of that coherently as all our life is tied to sequential events.   

My point is that while we try and try to pin point a date and time for the "galactic wave" or 2012 event, in reality we cannot.  We need to look at this 3D time as a metaphor - not an exact time when something is going to occur.  We need to see the whole forest and not just one tree.

Enlightenment happens!  Attachment to the ego-self leads one into delusion; but faith in one's Buddha nature leads one to enlightenment.

Re: December 21, 2012

I've been thinking about 2012 lately. If you consider that everything that gets wide publicity and general acceptance is partly or wholly disinfo, why should 2012 be any different? I wonder if we will ever see 2012, if the Wave and attendant predicted events occur before then, kind of catching some off guard in a way. Or consider the attitude of so many on Dec 22, 2012 if they wake up to their usual existence that morning.

I just wanted to get this off my chest. I've been seeing a lot of references to 2012 lately. It may just be that I've been spending too much time at GLP or AboveTopSecret. But it's just bothering me in a way I can't explain other than a little nag.

Re: December 21, 2012

You (plural) make the world, if you (pl.) want something big to happen in 2012, make it happen.

I don't think there will be an external event (i.e. comet, cosmic wave, photon belt, space aliens, etc.). Whenever a theory, prophecy, prediction, belief, etc. puts people in a passive waiting state, that benefits those who are currently in control. Authorities tend to be conservative, simply because they are currently in control, and as long as the system does not change (i.e. they conserve it), they stay in control. Passive waiting people don't make systems change, so they're good from the authorities-perspective. It does not even matter wether they engineered the belief or wether it came from somewhere else, the effect is clear.

Re: December 21, 2012

From a reading with David Wilcock:


"But this process of ascension is not about a cosmic lightswitch that a disembodied spirit flips at a certain moment in time such as December 21, 2012.  It is a process of continuing unfoldment.  It is a process of reaching deep within yourself and making those changes inside that quite literally do fulfill the prophecy of a new world- a new heaven, a new earth.  A world that is indeed one hundred times more harmonious. A world where you do indeed step into the divine abilities that are your endowment, which now lie in dormant potentiality."


"The path centers with yourself, with the forgiveness of self, the acceptance of self, and then the direction and will to positive and creative action.  Self understanding is a crucial component of this as you must understand what is present before you can fully forgive and accept it. "

23 (edited by Eagle Red 2005-10-11 22:18:56)

Re: December 21, 2012

What strikes me deeply when reading these posts is that whatever the truth may or may not be this is very much a humanising experience for us all.
  I personally have moved on from theoretical aliens, reptilians, whatever and all their supposed manipulations and hidden agendas etc because at the end of the day it is us, we humans, who will be doing the experiencing and the transforming and it is we who will be in the firing line when the heat comes on.
  We intuit that something is happening/is going to happen that will change life as we have always known and recognised it as and that we are the starring cast whether we want to be or not.
  We have entered upon a whole new script and are just beginning to realise that we are creating it as we go and that somehow we really need to get it right. Maybe all of history has been merely a rehearsal for this great, this fabulous, this ultra fantastic final journey that will take us either back to the very begining (where we must do it all over again) or to freedom in ascension.

24 (edited by tenetnosce 2005-10-11 23:02:27)

Re: December 21, 2012

I've been very conflicted about this subject for some time now.

If it is going to happen, whenever it happens, I think that there will be some correlative external set of events.  How could there not be?  I suppose I could wake up one morning in a new world, but then what happened to me in the old world?

I am very cautious about becoming so passive that I am just waiting around for something to happen, but then again I think well, if I am going to very soon be living in a world 100 times more harmonious than this one, what's the point in continuing to struggle here?

Why not just have a good time and enjoy the ride?

Yes, we all have to do the work ourselves, but how much more work really needs to be done?  I know that growth never ends, but when does growth stop being work?  When do we get to learn through love and joy instead of suffering and pain?

Is that a choice we can make right now?  I don't really know.  I've tried to make that my intention, but it has yet to work out that way.  It seems like whenever I start to really enjoy my life is when I hit a brick wall, and everything comes crashing down around me.  I feel my life has always sort of been like that.

Yet I'm still here.  How many more times do I have to pick up the pieces and start over again?  Sometimes I feel this world, this dimension, is like a broken record.  We keep repeating the same "lessons" over and over again, and it doesn't seem to matter if we learn them or not.  Sooner or later the needle hits a scratch, and the same old crusty song and dance starts all over again.

Maybe the whole 2012 thing is just a product of collective wishful thinking, but what is very real to me is the feeling that it is getting increasingly more difficult for me to grow in this world.  The bombardment of negativity, manipulation, propaganda, and general all-around idiocy is not getting better, it is getting worse, and I really don't feel that it serves me any longer.  I spend about 95% of my time simply trying to stay balanced; that leaves little room for any real growth.

There must be another way.  This is what I keep coming back to.  How to get from here to there I don't know.  It certainly seems like some grand cosmic miraculous event must occur  for me to get there, for all that I can do is simply be myself, and that doesn't appear to be enough.

It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.

Re: December 21, 2012

Sometime back, a couple of times Lyra mentioned 2006 (Octoberish-Novemberish), I'm getting a "feeling" about the same timeframe-can't exactly pinpoint just what, just a real strong sense of changes (mostly earth) and how  different things will be.  Like life as we live it will be VERY different.

If there is no time
      Then you have time for everything.
   You're never in a hurry.
That's true freedom.

Re: December 21, 2012

tenetnosce wrote:

I've been very conflicted about this subject for some time now.

If it is going to happen, whenever it happens, I think that there will be some correlative external set of events.  How could there not be?

Yes, I think that if something like a global density shift is coming up then there will be additional indications in the external world.

tenetnosce wrote:

if I am going to very soon be living in a world 100 times more harmonious than this one, what's the point in continuing to struggle here?

There may be no need to struggle.  Easier said than done, of course.  Plus, I don't think that anybody is going to automatically end up in a world that is 100 times more harmonious.  It depends on awareness and acceptance and forgiveness and soul orientation and such things.

tenetnosce wrote:

Why not just have a good time and enjoy the ride?

Sounds good to me.

Re: December 21, 2012

wandering1 wrote:
tenetnosce wrote:

Why not just have a good time and enjoy the ride?

Sounds good to me.

LoL Sounds good to me too.. the only thing is working and school work/studying that sucks tongue

Other than that being alive is sooo amazing smile

"Beyond the stars a new world awaits me now" - Wintersun

Re: December 21, 2012

Here is part of an interview with author Daniel Pinchbeck:

NWD: I think at your Palenque Norte conversation at Burning Man you mentioned that your next book is going to be about the global ecological catastrophe. What do you think is the occult meaning behind the environmental crisis and its effect on human spiritual evolution?

DP: It seems to me that the accelerated destruction of the biosphere by modern civilization is a willed cataclysm forcing an accelerated evolution of human consciousness to a more intensified state of awareness - what the philosopher Jean Gebser calls a new "consciousness structure." As we have approach this new perspective, we seem to be discovering that we are also realizing a new way of living in time and space � the psychic aspects of time are becoming more apparent to us. We seem to be gaining a deeper understanding of the workings of synchronicity, defined by Carl Jung as an "acausal ordering principle." The destruction seems to be necessary to force our evolution, as humans are very good at finding a comfort zone and staying in it. It was necessary to create a pressure-cooker situation where they could be no safety zone except by completing the work of alchemical transformation. One way to describe what is happening is a "collective process of individuation." I recently read a book by a Jungian, Edward Edinger,Archetypes of the Apocalypse. He argues that the Apocalypse represents the momentous event of the coming to self realization of human consciousness, and the paradoxical union of opposites described in symbolic form throughout The Book of Revelation. I think we are on the threshold of that event now. Despite all current appearances, I believe there is reason to believe that post-2012 post-history will be a utopia of the lived and realized imagination that will exceed our wildest dreams.

------

The whole interview is here:
http://www.newworlddisorder.ca/issuethr … hbeck.html

Re: December 21, 2012

Sheesh wrote:

It occurred to me that we should consider that space and time are only relevant in 3D, therefore any talk of time and date have no meaning when talking of 4D where all events are occurring at the same moment.  See - I can't even speak of that coherently as all our life is tied to sequential events.   

My point is that while we try and try to pin point a date and time for the "galactic wave" or 2012 event, in reality we cannot.  We need to look at this 3D time as a metaphor - not an exact time when something is going to occur.  We need to see the whole forest and not just one tree.

Understanding Time (or the lack thereof !) is one of the Magicians last Great Initiations.
It is malleable - it can molded,folded,turned around or bent this way and that.True 'Hooman Beans' are not subject to 'time' as we understand it  ie: the linearity if time is complete bollocks...yet it serves it's purpose - until we understand that we can play with time! speed up,sloooow down,go left,go right,go down,go up.fun fun fun!

Accoss the divide.

30 (edited by kryptokabbage 2006-04-25 00:19:30)

Re: December 21, 2012

The following passage is taken from the latest Mayan Majixs Newsletter which is a monthly update on the Progression of the Mayan Calender.



The question of the Mayan calendar end date

by

Carl Johan Calleman
                   
For some time now there has been a discussion going on as to what is the exact end date of the Mayan calendar. This debate was recently fueled by the rejection by Don Alejandro Oxlaj, head of the council of elders of the Maya, of the December 21, 2012 date promoted by archeologists. A newcomer to this field may be surprised at the aggressiveness this statement has been responded to at web pages such as the forum at Sacredroad.org or John Jenkins http://www.alignment2012.com/eldersand2 … ange.html. This aggressiveness, which by the way has been directed more against me than to Don Alejandro, who actually made the statement attests to the importance of the question and especially the understanding of the cosmic plan that lies underneath it. Hopefully Don Alejandro’s rejection (in no uncertain terms) of the December 21, 2012 end date will mean that some will dig deeper to understand the evolution of consciousness and make an attempt to understand what this end date really is based on.

Yet, the fundamental issue at hand is not so much what is the actual end date of the Mayan calendar, but how we are to understand this calendar and its relationship to the cosmic plan. This is also why the end date question requires an open mind and even a fairly deep knowledge of Mayan calendrics to address. Those that promote the December 21, 2012 date almost invariably lack a model for understanding evolution based on the Mayan calendar and are instead placing all the importance on what will happen on one particular day; December 21, 2012. What they suggest for this date is typically an event in the sky or a pole shift, a comet that will hit the earth or some other physical or astronomical singular event. In my view the most absurd of these interpretations is probably a book that sets out to prove that this is the day when the world will come to an end because of a pole shift and there is nothing we can do about it (The Orion Prophecy). For someone who does not have a scientific training and background its purported  « mathematical proof  » for this may even seem impressive. Those supporting the December 21, 2012 date, such as www.diagnosis2012.co.uk, prefer such depressing rubbish to an analysis of the evolution of consciousness, simply because it is consistent with the end date they propose. To them, the end date has become like a religion and if some author agrees with this anything goes. That representatives of the contemporary Maya reject this end date will then obviously not be popular among them as they do not attribute any meaning to the Mayan calendar apart from what may happen on this particular day.

At a time when we may soon expect a much expanded interest in the meaning of the Mayan calendar such interpretations of an event taking place on a special date are obviously very much welcomed by the defenders of the established order for the simple reason that they do not imply that we need to participate in a process of evolution of consciousness. Moreover, if the Mayan calendar is only about an event that happens in the sky what else would there be to do other than sit and wait with arms crossed for this event to take place? Fortunately, for the serious student of the Mayan calendar system, it has a much greater richness than this and may help people understand both the past and the future and at the same time provide a meaningful spiritual context for life.



Those defending the December 21, 2012 date however never link the Mayan calendar to a model for the evolution of consciousness and strongly oppose the very serious work that has been made to verify - literally a mountain of evidence - that it describes an ongoing evolution from the Big Bang until the present time. One of the conclusions that we may draw from this body of evidence is that in the next few years we may expect a downfall of all hierarchical structures and especially those that are based on Western dominance of the world. Another prediction is that the rule of darkness in the time period November 19, 2007 to November 13, 2008, will be a very oppressive period exerted by exactly those forces that will make their last desperate attempt to maintain their dominance of the world. If this time period is confused with a period of light many people will go along with it in the same way as happened when this very same energy ruled the world, and especially Germany, during the era 1932-1952. It then seems obvious that the ruling circles of our planet do not want this information to reach the broader public and the defenders of the December 21, 2012 date that deny that we are living in an ongoing evolution of consciousness are playing directly into their hands. When the reaction comes in November of 2007 the ruling elite, primarily based in the US, would much rather have people think that nobody should be able to question their rule and that spiritual freedom is impossible. In that time the proponents of the December 21, 2012 date will come in very handy for the rulers and all ideas that the Mayan calendar describes an evolution towards oneness and balance will be suppressed. Of course, these statements are not based on some divine revelation, but with analogies that associate this time period with corresponding destructive eras in the past. The primary reason that the end date is important is in my view that it strongly colors our perception of the present and the immediate time ahead.



Would it not be because the question of the end date is important for the present and how people will understand the upcoming energies of Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca I would see no reason to discuss it, especially not considering all the negative projections - far from a spirit of oneness - that it seems to give rise to among some. It is at the present time very important to discuss the upcoming energies of Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca, but the December 21 people are trying to sweep it under the rug.
                     
Hence, the issue of the end date is not so much a question of the particular date we favor, but what philosophy we adhere to and what vision of the world we would like to promote. Those denying the existence of a cosmic time plan leading towards a state of oneness have nothing to offer but the status quo and those seems to be the very people that are obsessed by being right about the December 21 end date. To them, the most important argument in favor of the December 21, 2012 date seems to be that there is agreement among the archeologists about it and hence no one should question it. But since modern archeologists approach the Mayan calendar as a superstition to begin with how could they possibly know when the completion date of the divine process of creation would be? The divine plan is not their field of study. Only someone who sets out to understand how the Mayan calendar describes the cosmic plan would be able to arrive at the correct end date for this.
                   
To grasp the origin of this end date it needs first to be pointed out that there is a fundamental misunderstanding among modern people about the Mayan Long Count. This misunderstanding is that the ancient Maya devised this calendar by targeting a particular end date. Although this may seem exciting to ourselves as we are living in that time it simply is not correct. The inscriptions from the ancient Maya in fact exclusively deal with describing the beginning of the Long Count, the creation date, which was set at August 11, 3114. The Mayan royalty living some 3500 years later sought to legitimize their positions by tracing their ancestry back to the beginning of this creation and wanted to understand this creation that their power was based on. Only those that have studied Mayan calendrics in some depth will know that the inscriptions deal with the creation date and not with the end date. The exact placement of this beginning date of the Long Count falls on the date that the sun was in zenith in Izapa, where the Long Count most likely was devised. Hence we have every reason to believe that it was this solar zenith day that its ending date was based on. The end date of the Long Count will simply fall exactly 1.872.000 days after this zenith date, which places it at December 21, 2012. Hence, the end date touted by the archeologists, December 21, 2012, directly depends on the fact that the people living in Izapa at the time thought of August 11, the date the sun was in zenith in their own particular temple city, as a holy day. Because of its zenith character it had probably for a long time been regarded as a day  « when time began  », as indeed it meant the beginning of a yearly cycle that determined the changing seasons in that location.
                   
From a wider perspective the problem with this beginning date is then that it lacks relevance to the world at large. Why would this zenith date, which the beginning of the Long Count is set at, matter to people living in other locations than Izapa (or on the same latitude)? Well, it obviously does not play a role for people living in other parts of the world, and is simply based on the desire of the Izapans to emphasize their own particular location and tradition. Hence, believing that the energetic beginning of the Long Count falls on the day that  « time began  » in Izapa is like believing that Jesus was actually born on Christmas Day. The parallel is that in both cases an older tradition, the pagan midwinter solstice in the case of the Christians, which was not related to what really was to be celebrated, was simply taken over by a new calendrical tradition. That such an ancient established highly localized tradition of the importance of the solar zenith in Izapa now seems to dominate the perception of some currently interested in the Mayan calendar and so the modern proponents of the December 21, 2012 date are stuck in the same established tradition as the ancient Izapans were. Thus, to many of them it is not permitted for a scientist to broaden his perspective or question something that the archeologists all seem to agree upon. One might wonder where science would be today if such local traditions would never have been questioned. In my view, it is the task of science to arrive at an increasingly holistic understanding of the world and being stuck in a local tradition (even if it is Mayan or proto-Mayan) prevents the emergence of an understanding of the cosmic plan that is relevant to our entire planet.

                     
The second reason that we may understand the December 21, 2012 date to be wrong is that it falls on the tzolkin day 4 Ahau, since this is not a completion energy. It must fall on a date that is 13 Ahau, since this is the tzolkin energy towards which all the tzolkin energies are moving. This may be a more difficult argument to grasp than that the beginning of the traditional Long Count is based on a local tradition. To realize that the actual end date must fall on an energy that is a 13 Ahau date essentially requires of someone that he or she for a relatively long time have followed exclusively the true tzolkin count. Only in that way would one be able to personally experience the energy shifts, and unfortunately not so many people do that. If people mix two different counts that we may be certain that there is too much confusion for the actual energy shifts to be felt. Yet, it is important to know that Don Alejandro speaks about a prophecy of the return of 13 Ahau that seems to have survived through the ages. Carlos Cedillo also alerted me to a passage in the Book of Chilam Balam of Chumayel that describes the energy of 13 Ahau as follows:  « Holy completion of time, truly  » - a statement not found regarding any other tzolkin energy in these prophetic Mayan books written a few hundred years ago. From a knowledge of the tzolkin it simply seems logical that the true Mayan calendar should end on a day that has the energy of 13 Ahau.


                     
The placement of the end date of this creation at the particular 13 Ahau energy of October 28, 2011 is supported by what seems to be a correction made in Palenque to the original Izapan Long Count several hundred years later. Most likely the priests of Palenque, who obviously meticulously followed the true tzolkin count then started to feel that there was something wrong with the correlation between the Izapan Long Count and the tzolkin. (Since they were living in Palenque they were not attached to or tuned in to the Izapan solstice date). The correction that they hinted at was however not implemented as a change of the Izapan Long Count because of the forbidding consequences. (Somebody who doubts that should consider how easy it would be to change the Gregorian calendar if the date of birth of Jesus was determined with absolute certainty). Such a change would not have been possible because of the enormous role that the Long Count had in legitimizing the rule of the Palenquean dynasty and providing stability to its society. Hence, its priests could only hint that the Izapan Long Count missed the mark by 420 days.
                     
Hence, you might say that the Palenquean priests around AD 600 began to feel something that is similar to what many are beginning to feel today. This is that there is something wrong with the December 21, 2012 end date of the Long Count. This experience will only increase in the years to come at least among those that are not content with repeating what other people are saying and who actually are able themselves to experience the wave movement of divine creation towards the state of oneness. And it is to those that I am primarily addressing myself, because it is those that may craft the path that the divine plan seems to be laying out for us. I am not primarily addressing myself to those for whom it is more important to be right about a date than to facilitate the spiritual future of humanity. In this context I would also like to point out that many people have a strong intuitive sense that the year 2012 will mean something special. This intuitive sense is fully consistent with the October 28, 2011 date, since if the divine process of creation is completed on that day it will indeed be the year 2012 that will usher the great change. If instead the completion of divine creation would fall on the Izapan end date, December 21, 2012, it would be the year 2013 that would harvest the change. Intuitively, most seem to favor the 2012 date and I feel this promises that as we come closer people will increasingly be drawn to the energetically correct end date, October 28, 2011.



Carl Johan Calleman
Orsa, Sweden
4 Cib (4 Vulture)
7.6.15 of the Galactic Underworld

What this means to me is essentially that the end date is not that important in its self but it is the events leading up to that date that will be crucial. The best i think that most of us can do is to keep intending for the best possible future while furthering our connection to the devine in order that we are able to stand the best chance of survival when the ish hits the fan. The Mayan Calender gives us historical analogy of the likely developement of events and through this awareness of a higher plan unfolding our fear of the unknown is greatly reduced and conscequently our ability to persist and to be a light for others during a dark spell.

The greatest catalyst to change comes from accepting thyself